Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

ted1 · 08-04-2017 12:40AM

cram1971 wrote: »

Field east wrote: »

Professionals on the spot probably know how water in the area moves seasonally with the effect of tides/swells , etc. Having said that, the area still being searched seems to be very wide which would indicate that the two missing SAR staff could , hopefully, turn up anyplace.

But would it make any sence in putting the equivalent of a human body ( e.g. A dead calf) clothed in the kind of clothing that SARS rescue staff use and track same when submerged at Blackrock outcrop. It would be an extremely cheap way of getting a good indication of how bodies might have moved over time.

Also does any poster have an aerial photo of the landing pad at the Blacksod Lighthouse. I assume it was that helipad that R 116 was making for before it disappeared.
My apologies for the 'Crudeness' of the first point, but it is made with the best of intentions

I was thinking something very similar. Place a mannequin dressed in the same PPE with a GPS tracking unit installed in the location of the crash site day 1 and them keep a track of it to get an idea of how the bodies might move.

There is obviously a lot of other factors that come into play like if the bodies initially sink then refloat, if they are still attached to parts of the aircraft injuries etc.

Is a 21 day time machine that's based on different wind patterns really any good?

Esel · 08-04-2017 12:44AM

ted1 wrote: »

Is a 21 day time machine that's based on different wind patterns really any good?

Compared to what? I'm sure it isn't happening
on a whim.

TomOnBoard · 08-04-2017 01:05AM

Steve wrote: »

Look at any file photo of coast guard crew, they don't wear camo suits.

Oh yes, they do. There are thousands of such file photos on t'Internet. The crews are all wearing camo suits. However, you can't actually see them, BECAUSE they're all wearing camo suits!!

Boom! Boom!

Steve · 08-04-2017 01:11AM

ICG post on bookface:

On Saturday the 8th of April the Irish Coast Guard, RNLI, Irish Air Corps, the Irish Naval Service and Civil Defence, boats, aircraft, land search and UAV teams, will be joined by more than 80 civilian vessels to mount one of the largest open water and shoreline searches ever undertaken in the history of the state.

In a combined search effort for the missing Irish Coast Guard Helicopter crewmen, Ciarán Smith and Paul Ormsby, the fleet will conduct an extensive search of the coastline from Co. Mayo to Co. Donegal. The response to the search appeal has been incredibly heart warming.

With so many civilian vessels engaged in search operations safety is the number one consideration. Anyone joining the onwater search should be wearing an appropriate lifejacket, have working VHF communications and distress flares, and have the appropriate training for the vessel they are taking to sea.

The attached map breaks down the search zones, each zone has a responsible coordinator. Vessels are required to check in with the relevant coordinator for their zone before commencing search operations and again when standing down.

SEARCH AREAS
1. Aranmore Area -Surface Search Coordinator is Aranmore Lifeboat. All vessels intending to go to sea in that area should contact Aranmore Lifeboat prior to saturday for Instructions. When searching on Saturday they should report to Aranmore Lifeboat on VHF Ch 06

2. Killybegs Area -Surface Search Coordinator is Killybegs Coast Guard. All vessels intending to go to sea in that area should contact Killybegs Coast Guard prior to Saturday for Instructions. When searching on Saturday they should report to Killybegs Coast Guard on VHF Ch 08

3. Bundoran Area -Surface Search Coordinator is Bundoran Lifeboat. All vessels intending to go to sea in that area should contact Bundoran Lifeboat Station prior to Saturday for Instructions. When searching on Saturday they should report to Bundoran Lifeboat on VHF Ch 72

4. Sligo Bay Area -Surface Search Coordinator is Sligo Bay Lifeboat. All vessels intending to go to sea in that area should contact Sligo Bay Lifeboat Station prior to Saturday for Instructions. When searching on Saturday they should report to Sligo Bay Lifeboat on VHF Ch 06

5. Killala Area -Surface Search Coordinator is Killala Coast Guard. All vessels intending to go to sea in that area should contact Killala Coast Guard prior to Saturday for Instructions. When searching on Saturday they should report to Killala Coast Guard on VHF Ch 08

6. Ballyglass Area -Surface Search Coordinator is Ballyglass Lifeboat. All vessels intending to go to sea in that area should contact Ballyglass Lifeboat prior to Saturday for Instructions. When searching on Saturday they should report to Ballyglass Lifeboat on VHF Ch 72

7. Achill Area -Surface Search Coordinator is Achill Lifeboat. All vessels intending to go to sea in that area should contact Achill Island Lifeboat prior to Saturday for Instructions. When searching on Saturday they should report to Achill Lifeboat on VHF Ch 06

VHF Ch 16 is for safety urgency and distress communications. It will be monitored by Malin Head Coast Guard as normal. Please try avoid using Ch 16 for unnecessary communications, if required contact Malin Head Coast Guard on working channels.

The Marine Institute's Remotely Operated Vehicle (ROV), Holland 1, has been engaged in underwater search operations. The ROV is being operated from the Commissioners of Irish Lights Vessel, the Granuaile, which returned to Blacksod Bay yesterday.

Ní fhágfaidh muid thú
Níl tú leat fhéin
Tá cúnamh ar an mbealach
Fan dilís

17796010_1416390171738147_3377707892606593962_n.jpg?oh=72c32bd7e99be57568833ae309fc5b29&oe=5993BCDD

kippy · 08-04-2017 07:23AM

Significant numbers of boats in the area now. Lots of activity on the shorelines as well from what I've heard
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-10/centery:54/zoom:9
A big day - hopefully there is some success.

Gaoth Laidir · 08-04-2017 08:33AM

Gentlemen, start your engines...

Coil Kilcrea · 08-04-2017 08:56AM

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Gentlemen, start your engines...
Large image from above post snipped to help those on smaller screens

Fantastic!

Means Of Escape · 08-04-2017 09:04AM

Steve wrote: »

I hear you.
Multiply that frustration by 10 and maybe you will begin to understand what it has been like to be a moderator of this discussion. Being at the coal face of this and having to delete speculative thoughts that may in time turn out to be true has not been easy.

Educated and intelligent theories

prunudo · 08-04-2017 10:42AM

I'd like to ask something, if it's inappropriate then please delete.
Do the crew wear immersion suits all the time or only if going over water. Would they be wearing them transiting over land enroute from Dublin to Blacksod and then suit up before they headed off for top cover?

wotswattage · 08-04-2017 12:10PM

jvan wrote: »

I'd like to ask something, if it's inappropriate then please delete.
Do the crew wear immersion suits all the time or only if going over water. Would they be wearing them transiting over land enroute from Dublin to Blacksod and then suit up before they headed off for top cover?

Usually they'd know if it's a 'wet job' (over water) or a 'dry job' (over land for example mountain rescue/air ambulance) and prepare accordingly.

They may also bring more equipment depending on how many casualties are expected. For a top cover mission it would certainly be a wet job maybe even with extra liferafts.

adam88 · 08-04-2017 01:16PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Oh yes, they do. There are thousands of such file photos on t'Internet. The crews are all wearing camo suits. However, you can't actually see them, BECAUSE they're all wearing camo suits!!

Boom! Boom!

You get a paddling for that

wotswattage · 08-04-2017 02:44PM

If anyone has any pictures of the search today please post them, only the largest vessels are on ais.

Really hoping this amazing community contribution gets a result.

kippy · 08-04-2017 09:45PM

The news is not positive unfortunately.
http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0408/866262-rescue-116-mayo-coast-guard/

A major sea search off the north west coast has failed to locate any trace of two Coast Guard crewmen missing since their helicopter crashed last month.

Around 110 fishing vessels from around the west and northwest took part in the day-long operation.

They carried out a co-ordinated survey in an attempt to find any trace of CiarÃ¡n Smith and Paul Ormsby.

Coil Kilcrea · 08-04-2017 09:59PM

kippy wrote: »

The news is not positive unfortunately.
http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0408/866262-rescue-116-mayo-coast-guard/

A major sea search off the north west coast has failed to locate any trace of two Coast Guard crewmen missing since their helicopter crashed last month.

Around 110 fishing vessels from around the west and northwest took part in the day-long operation.

They carried out a co-ordinated survey in an attempt to find any trace of CiarÃ¡n Smith and Paul Ormsby.

What an effort and more tomorrow so we can only hope for a result but it's challenging.

Steve · 08-04-2017 10:05PM

Coil Kilcrea wrote: »

What an effort and more tomorrow so we can only hope for a result but it's challenging.

Are they doing the same tomorrow? hadn't heard that.

Coil Kilcrea · 08-04-2017 10:08PM

Steve wrote: »

Are they doing the same tomorrow? hadn't heard that.

I could be mistaken but I was told they were by a fisherman friend who took part today.

Cianmcliam · 08-04-2017 10:24PM

Sounded like that on the news, said searching had been 'called off for the night'.

JimWinters · 08-04-2017 10:59PM

In the Independent today:

The two Air Corps maritime patrol planes have not been available to help in the search for missing Rescue 116 for more than two weeks because of "scheduled maintenance", it has emerged

Unbelieveable to think both aircraft are out of service during an operation like this! Could they not have requested assistance from the RAF with such a gap in capabilities?

HeidiHeidi · 08-04-2017 11:05PM

JimWinters wrote: »

In the Independent today:

Unbelieveable to think both aircraft are out of service during an operation like this! Could they not have requested assistance from the RAF with such a gap in the capabilities?

I'm sure I saw the Air Corps Casa plane on AIS today during the search

JimWinters · 08-04-2017 11:18PM

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I'm sure I saw the Air Corps Casa plane on AIS today during the search

Yeah it was definitely on AIS today but apparently missing for large parts of the operation...

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/both-air-corps-patrol-planes-unavailable-for-rescue-116-search-due-to-scheduled-maintenance-35602895.html

CaptainSkidmark · 09-04-2017 11:16AM

Steve wrote: »

Immersion / survival suits are designed to delay hypothermia by keeping the wearer dry. They are generally bright orange and have reflective material strips to aid SAR. AFAIK they don't have in built in buoyancy.

I spent a year working offshore, The suits expel more air the more you are submerged out the shoulders on a valve. The life jacket with a re-breather and splash mask and inflatable jacket goes on over then, but even if you loose the life jacket, the suit will usually keep you afloat. not enough to impede your exit from the aircraft tho. I had my jacket off in the pool in Ringaskiddy and i was floating no problem without threading the water.

arubex · 09-04-2017 12:18PM

JimWinters wrote: »

Unbelieveable to think both aircraft are out of service during an operation like this!

Sounds harsh to say it, but after the first week this was no longer a time-critical SAR operation but a recovery operation. Keeping both CASAs operational when something more critical might later arise may have been judged to be risky.

Could they not have requested assistance from the RAF with such a gap in capabilities?

Well they could ask, but the RAF won't receive its new Poseidons until 2019. In the meantime they don't have anything to offer other than Herks with Mk 1 Eyeballs. Perhaps useful for communication relay but not suited for sea-search, they don't even have domed blister-windows.

xper · 09-04-2017 12:25PM

JimWinters wrote: »

In the Independent today:

The two Air Corps maritime patrol planes have not been available to help in the search for missing Rescue 116 for more than two weeks because of "scheduled maintenance", it has emerged

Unbelieveable to think both aircraft are out of service during an operation like this! Could they not have requested assistance from the RAF with such a gap in capabilities?

There was a Casa in the area on both Friday and Saturday on AIS.

These aircraft work at low level over the Atlantic day in, day out. That is an extremely challenging environment with little margin for error. You do not compromise safety by ignoring maintenance schedules. Sure, ideally only one of the aircraft would be off line at any given time but with a fleet of just two, that may not always be possible. Also bear in mind that you're reading the Indo, the detailed truth could be several degrees away from what is in print.

As for requesting help from the RAF, their current maritime patrol capability is worse than ours since the Nimrods were retired several years ago. Their first P-8 doesn't arrive until 2019.

Storm 10 · 09-04-2017 01:32PM

The Casa was there yesterday and spent a long time searching the coastline, in fact when coming home from their normal daily maritime patrols they have searched the area heading home, of course the media won't print that info

I was listening in to Shannon ATC and they were in regular contact with them and Rescue 118 and Rescue 115 giving their location and where they were currently searching and their height

ted1 · 09-04-2017 03:18PM

According to the article The CASA came back into operation on the 7th.

Could they reall offer any help ? Do they record video for play back? What is the min speed they can travel? Would a drone not be better suited?

Tenger · 09-04-2017 03:38PM

ted1 wrote: »

........ The CASA came back into operation on the 7th.

Could they reall offer any help ? Do they record video for play back? What is the min speed they can travel? Would a drone not be better suited?

Well Im not sure a drone can cover the same area as the CASA. And it does have a variety of sensors, perhaps more suited to searching for ships or debris however.

ted1 · 09-04-2017 03:45PM

Tenger wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

........ The CASA came back into operation on the 7th.

Could they reall offer any help ? Do they record video for play back? What is the min speed they can travel? Would a drone not be better suited?

Well Im not sure a drone can cover the same area as the CASA. And it does have a variety of sensors, perhaps more suited to searching for ships or debris however.

What kind of sensors do they use for recovery ? Is it not just vision, after three weeks I can't imagine that there is a heat signature.

Tenger · 09-04-2017 03:52PM

ted1 wrote: »

What kind of sensors do they use for recovery ? Is it not just vision, after three weeks I can't imagine that there is a heat signature.

Hence my "perhaps more suited to aearching for ships or debris" comment.

The CASA would have greater range and endurance that any drone. (Ie. Drone versus UAV)
Its visual sensors have a very wide arc. Ive been inside one of them but cant recall the exact equipment. Mainly aimed at fisheries survellance however.

09-04-2017 06:21PM

They have a wide surveillance suite. FLIR and cameras bubble windows and people well capable of spotting out the window or over the tail ramp if required. They're a very useful marine surveillance tool. They are hopefully after all looking for guys in bright orange overalls which should be very easy to spot.

There will be absolutely no heat signature thus they won't use FLIR. But they do have a high intensity camera.

A drone would be less useful in this situation I don't know whether you are talking about the coastguard drone or military spec type drones but the CASA has a far longer loiter time and will be far more capable than either especially considering the only mil drones in the country are far far far smaller.

Reati · 09-04-2017 07:45PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A drone would be less useful in this situation I don't know whether you are talking about the coastguard drone or military spec type drones but the CASA has a far longer loiter time and will be far more capable than either especially considering the only mil drones in the country are far far far smaller.

Do we even have military drones here? I've only ever seen inspires and matrices used for SAR. Both limited to 20 to 35 minutes of flight at max range of 7km from the operator.

Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

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