Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

tricky D · 06-04-2017 09:32PM

It's the mechanic who is paid and generally mans the station in my area.

As for the risks, bravery and heroism, it is certainly true they put their lives on the line for others and that is to be commended without reserve.

Means Of Escape · 06-04-2017 09:51PM

Esel wrote: »

A picture paints a thousand words, sometimes.

What are you trying to say?

Can you even imagine the undersea topography surrounding Blackrock?

Do you honestly think that the search has just ignored the area?

And the underwater currents and forces on the rock making the likelihood of the crewmen being there very remote .
A search further out to sea would probably be more fruitful .

Means Of Escape · 06-04-2017 09:54PM

elastico wrote: »

Well said.

These are professionals paid to do a job safely. They are not paid to take risks or behave "heroic" every time they go to work.

They are not sent into combat like a soldier.

Very fine line between being cautious and taking a risk when someone's life is in your hands and you are their only hope
Some would say foolhardy and reckless while others would say brave (but lucky )

Steve · 06-04-2017 10:21PM

For those wondering about the underwater topography,
this is a Navionics sonargram of the area. I've overlaid the most recent Granuaile track on the image. The clusters of close together AIS fixes seem to indicate there was something of interest in those locations. She is still on station at Black Rock.

TomOnBoard · 06-04-2017 10:26PM

Steve wrote: »

For those wondering about the underwater topography,
this is a Navionics sonargram of the area. I've overlaid the most recent Granuaile track on the image. The clusters of close together AIS fixes seem to indicate there was something of interest in those locations. She is still on station at Black Rock.

Very informative.

Would it be possible to plot Ocean Challenger's track from the lift sequence in due course? Thanks.

Steve · 06-04-2017 10:37PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Would it be possible to plot Ocean Challenger's track from the lift sequence in due course? Thanks.

I had a look, it seems MT only keeps 24hrs in their track log so I don't have data to do it.

If anyone knows the lat/long I can attempt to add it to the diagram.

nuac · 06-04-2017 10:53PM

Many thanks for that chart.

TomOnBoard · 06-04-2017 11:27PM

Here's a re-post of the Infomar undersea scan picture previously posted, which gives another view of the underwater topography to complement Steve's Navioncs plots.

Gaoth Laidir · 06-04-2017 11:47PM

Steve wrote: »

I had a look, it seems MT only keeps 24hrs in their track log so I don't have data to do it.

If anyone knows the lat/long I can attempt to add it to the diagram.

Where can I find maps like those?

Steve · 06-04-2017 11:50PM

www.navionics.com

duskyjoe · 07-04-2017 12:58AM

Thank Heavens for Steve here.....super informative and fair posts with zero bs.

Tenger · 07-04-2017 01:26AM

duskyjoe wrote: »

Thank Heavens for Steve here.....super informative and fair posts with zero bs.

Not everyone is here to show off how much they know about the subject at hand, whether it be cranes, planes, DSVs, helis, or hurling.

07-04-2017 08:46AM

Tenger wrote: »

Not everyone is here to show off how much they know about the subject at hand, whether it be cranes, planes, DSVs, helis, or hurling.

That's a bit uncalled for IMO...I've generally just been following the thread interested in the updates....Surprised at a response like that

skallywag · 07-04-2017 09:49AM

368100 wrote: »

That's a bit uncalled for IMO...I've generally just been following the thread interested in the updates....Surprised at a response like that

It's unfortunately indicative of this thread from day one, it's been a boiling pot of condescending tones, sniping, arrogance and misplaced outrage.

When one considers the subject matter being discussed here I think that some folk clearly need to take a step back and have a hard look in the mirror.

greenspurs · 07-04-2017 10:20AM

skallywag wrote: »

It's unfortunately indicative of this thread from day one, it's been a boiling pot of condescending tones, sniping, arrogance and misplaced outrage.

When one considers the subject matter being discussed here I think that some folk clearly need to take a step back and have a hard look in the mirror.

Careful ... i was banned for a week for stating something similar !!:rolleyes:

Field east · 07-04-2017 10:25AM

Professionals on the spot probably know how water in the area moves seasonally with the effect of tides/swells , etc. Having said that, the area still being searched seems to be very wide which would indicate that the two missing SAR staff could , hopefully, turn up anyplace.

But would it make any sence in putting the equivalent of a human body ( e.g. A dead calf) clothed in the kind of clothing that SARS rescue staff use and track same when submerged at Blackrock outcrop. It would be an extremely cheap way of getting a good indication of how bodies might have moved over time.

Also does any poster have an aerial photo of the landing pad at the Blacksod Lighthouse. I assume it was that helipad that R 116 was making for before it disappeared.
My apologies for the 'Crudeness' of the first point, but it is made with the best of intentions

Cloudio9 · 07-04-2017 10:53AM

greenspurs wrote: »

Careful ... i was banned for a week for stating something similar !!:rolleyes:

I was banned for a week for complaining on thread during "drunk-gate"

But I'm sure a mod posting something impetuous at 1.30am has nothing to do with alcohol.

cram1971 · 07-04-2017 10:58AM

Field east wrote: »

Professionals on the spot probably know how water in the area moves seasonally with the effect of tides/swells , etc. Having said that, the area still being searched seems to be very wide which would indicate that the two missing SAR staff could , hopefully, turn up anyplace.

But would it make any sence in putting the equivalent of a human body ( e.g. A dead calf) clothed in the kind of clothing that SARS rescue staff use and track same when submerged at Blackrock outcrop. It would be an extremely cheap way of getting a good indication of how bodies might have moved over time.

Also does any poster have an aerial photo of the landing pad at the Blacksod Lighthouse. I assume it was that helipad that R 116 was making for before it disappeared.
My apologies for the 'Crudeness' of the first point, but it is made with the best of intentions

I was thinking something very similar. Place a mannequin dressed in the same PPE with a GPS tracking unit installed in the location of the crash site day 1 and them keep a track of it to get an idea of how the bodies might move.

There is obviously a lot of other factors that come into play like if the bodies initially sink then refloat, if they are still attached to parts of the aircraft injuries etc.

L1011 · 07-04-2017 11:05AM

greenspurs wrote: »

Careful ... i was banned for a week for stating something similar !!:rolleyes:

Cloudio9 wrote: »

I was banned for a week for complaining on thread during "drunk-gate"

But I'm sure a mod posting something impetuous at 1.30am has nothing to do with alcohol.

If you have issues with moderation, there are places to discuss that. On-thread is not one of them. Warnings have been given to this effect before

Cloudio9's post falls below any expected standards

Radiant Cool Crazy Nightmare · 07-04-2017 11:34AM

For the first time since the day of the helicopter crash, I have noticed a Coast Gaurd helicopter fly over my house in Swords just now.

Cianmcliam · 07-04-2017 12:12PM

Reati wrote: »

Yes 25mph is less than 10m/s so you can fly in that.

I've done many orthos in my day. What your talking about works if the objects don't move between your original sweep for photos and the time it takes to process the imaging into an ortho and explore the details of it. So it's not cut out for the example I referenced of drones doing sea surface searchs.

Even with the best computer it takes a few hours to build in the resolution you describe excluding the time to get the images to the computer. Not to include the cost of buying a license for that software which is ridiculous.

I'm dunno if it's a technique that's used by the SAR teams using drones but it I would agree for non time critical things it would be very useful. You can even use much lower cost drones which could be risked in bad weather as they would be cheap to replace.

It wouldn't take that long, I sometimes use an online service where you can upload photos using 3G/4G and they email you once the orthophoto is ready, usually within an hour or two for an area the size of Blackrock. Very cheap too, the orthophoto can be less than â‚¬10 but a detailed 3D model could be a lot more.

sword1 · 07-04-2017 12:16PM

They have plb s I think. If they have not alerted and the seats /harness 's have not been found then it would seem likely that they never surfaced. Sorry if this has been covered I have not looked at the thread in a few days. I just see that a large surface search is being launched and while all efforts are to be applauded I am wondering if it would be better to concentrate underwater. I do realise there is a big effort underwater also

Storm 10 · 07-04-2017 12:24PM

sword1 wrote: »

They have plb s I think. If they have not alerted and the seats /harness 's have not been found then it would seem likely that they never surfaced. Sorry if this has been covered I have not looked at the thread in a few days. I just see that a large surface search is being launched and while all efforts are to be applauded I am wondering if it would be better to concentrate underwater. I do realise there is a big effort underwater also

Granuaile has been on scene since yesterday carrying out an underwater search with the ROV

selectamatic · 07-04-2017 01:14PM

L1011 wrote: »

Weather and sea conditions were not suitable for quite some time. Also, its not as if CIL, ICG, Naval Service etc etc are not professionals

However when conditions became somewhat favourable it still took too long to recover
Capt. Mark Duffy.

I don't think anyone here is criticising the naval divers or implying they're not pros in their own field however that field isn't specific to deep sea wreckage recovery unlike some other commercial options that were available.

That said they infact did a tremendous job in what were perilous conditions and followed their orders to aplomb. However the decision by those overseeing this entire operation not to contract in professional recovery SAT divers wasn't their finest one.

Questioning of the recovery operation is allowed on this thread as was seen when the capabilities of Atlantic towage & marine ltd were called into question by some on here. Interestingly enough they completed their contracted task perfectly too, albeit in a more timely fashion.

07-04-2017 02:38PM

They managed to lift the hub, gearbox and an engine. I am not clear if these came up as one piece, but it would appear they did. 'We' do not fully know the original condition of the wreckage, how much the structural integrity was compromised when cutting out Capt. Mark Duffy and if/how much damage was done with the air bag attempts. We do know it was upside down, which it not to be unexpected, as most of the weight it at the top. Without knowing these, on face value calling in salvage experts at the start might have resulted in the wreck lifted earlier, with the remains inside (less risk to divers) and without the hull breaking up.

At this point my main worry is someone else is going to get hurt during the current searching.

TomOnBoard · 07-04-2017 02:48PM

skallywag wrote: »

It's unfortunately indicative of this thread from day one, it's been a boiling pot of condescending tones, sniping, arrogance and misplaced outrage.

When one considers the subject matter being discussed here I think that some folk clearly need to take a step back and have a hard look in the mirror.

Not disagreeing that some 'hot flushes' did take place. However, its lately been quite civilized I would have thought. The handbags and shapes that have been thrown have been in the ha'penny place compared to a real "boiling pot of condescending tones, sniping, arrogance and misplaced outrage" not to mention both hateful and disgustingly unnecessary discussion of some matters at P.ie. :eek::eek::eek:

In an ideal world, such a thread as this which does provide a useful service IMHO, would be conducted like dinner table conversation. In that physical environment, basic table manners and rules of social etiquette apply; guests adhere to ground rules set down by the host who is feeding them; those who become unduly "tired and emotional" are helped to lie down for a bit; and offensive guests tend to find themselves very hungry for want of dinner invitations in the future. That said, the best dinner hosts enable rather than disable conversation and ensure that the strongest character does not unduly bully the weakest one. That weakest character often says the least, but impacts the most when s/he speaks.

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 04:29PM

One would presume that the current ROV search , is to eliminate the debris field. ?

zuutroy · 07-04-2017 07:18PM

New 116 circling Beaumont Hospital at the min. Very eerie.

Calina · 07-04-2017 07:24PM

zuutroy wrote: »

New 116 circling Beaumont Hospital at the min. Very eerie.

I no longer live in the area but I like to think I'd find it comforting to hear the helicopter back again after a period of silence for the reasons it went silent. As though they are there through thick and thin. I know I would have missed it because it is one of the things I do miss from Dublin - the daily reminder that there were people out there doing a job which was the very definition of service to their fellow human beings.

smurfjed · 07-04-2017 07:24PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtST_dR9HPg

https://youtu.be/vtST_dR9HPg

Landing beside Beaumont Hospital this evening.

Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

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