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BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭mugsymugsy


    paulboland wrote: »
    I work in Ashbourne 19.00-7.00 I don't work in Dublin
    With Bus Eireann Strike I have no other form of transport or possible use of a lift due to the hours I work

    109A is my only public transport no private bus provides transport from Navan to Ashbourne and even if I got to Dublin I don't have a private Bus from Dublin to Navan until 13.00
    Working 19.00-7.00 a Bus from Dublin to Navan at 13.00 is of no use to me

    Thanks for option to get a lift but unless they can provide transport from 18.00 Navan to Ashbourne and a lift from 07.00 in the morning back to Navan it would be of no use

    I do appreciate the offer and would use it if I worked in Dublin 9-5

    It's very frustrating for those that are severely impacted by this and i hope the union's and BE come to their senses and accept the changes or allow for a quick transition of the tendering of the PSO routes to other operators.

    Out of curiosity what size vehicle and what passenger numbers go on the services that you use to get to work on average?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,699 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    paulboland wrote: »
    I work in Ashbourne 19.00-7.00 I don't work in Dublin

    Do you need to go home every day? Is there an chance of doing a deal with a BnB and staying a lot closer to work a couple of nights this week? I know there are shift patterns which make this impossible - but that's a mad amount to be spending.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Do you need to go home every day? Is there an chance of doing a deal with a BnB and staying a lot closer to work a couple of nights this week? I know there are shift patterns which make this impossible - but that's a mad amount to be spending.

    Or hire a car. They can be had for as little as 22 euro a day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    murphaph wrote: »
    You need to start reading the replies paulboland. It's been explained several times now how to achieve better, cheaper public transport by replacing BE with a tender model under the auspices of the NTA.

    There is nothing wrong with Bus Eireann Public Service routes they don't need to be changed to private bus service.

    It's expressway bus service that has caused problems with bus eireann
    It's a commercial operation and is not funded by the tax payers

    If expressway did not exist Bus eireann would not be in financial trouble it's the main cause of the losses as the most profitable routes are already covered by private bus operators
    Bus Eireann got into the commercial business bus service to late and missed out on the best routes.

    Why should private bus operators be given the PSO routes already covered by Bus Eireann there is no need to do this.

    It's routes not covered by Bus Eireann that need to be covered as in areas lacking bus transport.
    Give a licence to private operators but only if they are willing to provide a bus service during both peak hours and off peak hours especially if they expect to get State subsidy on these routes not covered by Bus Eireann

    A lot of these routes that lack a bus service a lot of private bus operators would not be interested as even with State subsidy they would struggle to make a profit

    The private bus service want the routes that are already covered by bus eireann simply because they can make a big profit on some of these routes

    A lot of the private bus drivers only get 10.00 euro an hour some of the private bus operators want bus eireann to fail for their own greed to get the best routes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,567 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    murphaph wrote: »
    You need to start reading the replies paulboland. It's been explained several times now how to achieve better, cheaper public transport by replacing BE with a tender model under the auspices of the NTA.

    unfortunately a tender model doesn't guarantee better, and especially cheeper, public transport, at least long term. the fee to the operators has to be paid and they will want to make some sort of profit.
    n97 mini wrote: »
    Unlike Bus Eireann the other operators don't get a subsidy. Perhaps if the bus network was fairly tendered out (operators getting paid for non profitable routes like BE currently do) then one company couldn't bring the whole network to a standstill.

    but multiple operators could if the unions decide to (for example) seek pay rises across all PSO operators at the same time.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,905 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    paulboland wrote: »
    The solution is sorting expressway bus service and increasing Bus Eireann transport service with more Buses to counties outside Dublin and make them PSO routes instead of been a commercial operation.

    There seams to be lot of confusion and lot public not knowing the difference between Bus Eireann Public Transport Service and Expressway Bus Service

    Expressway Bus Service is not public transport service it's a commercial bus operation and is totally separate from Bus Eireann
    Expressway Bus Service is the same as private bus service it's not funded by the tax payer and is only run to make a profit it's not subsidized in any way by the tax payer
    Don't confuse Expressway with Bus Eireann main service the Public transport service to provide transport outside Dublin

    CIE = Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann the Public transport service for the Rep of Ireland and is owned by the citizens of Ireland

    The lack of understanding is annoying and seams to come from Dublin bus users not knowing the difference and private bus operators with their own agenda to try get the Public service routes that are profitable (You won't be getting these routes forget about it)

    I'm amazed at the lack of knowledge as to what Bus Eireann Public transport service is
    Bus Eireann public transport service PSO routes will not be privatized for that to happen Dublin Bus and Dart and Irish Rail would also have to be privatized and would require the permission of Irish citizens to change public transport service to a private transport service


    Population of Ireland is 4.8 million
    Dublin population is only 1.3 million
    Outside Dublin the population is 3.5 million and Bus Eireann is the Public transport service for these 3.5 million but has serious lack of public transport to cover these 3.5 million population

    Dublin has Dublin Bus and Dart and Luas and Irish Rail as public transport but has less population than outside Dublin has

    Bus Eireann is the only public transport service in a lot of counties with no private bus service and also a lot of counties outside Dublin has no train service

    What is needed is more Bus Eireann public service routes + the essential Expressway service routes changed to public transport and the non essential expressway routes given to private bus operators but they would unlikely consider looking for a licence to operate in

    Dublin Bus gets more public funding than what Bus Eireann gets that's crazy with a bigger population outside Dublin getting less funding.

    Public Transport is essential service it's the citizens of Ireland transport service and we fund it through taxes and use of the service with fares it's not meant to be making a profit it's a public service.

    If the public transport service was privatized you would have a lot of towns have no bus service at all as private bus operators would not provide a bus service as a lot of the routes to them would not be profitable.

    You don't even get off peak hours bus service on most of the routes private bus operators do at the moment they are only interested in peak hours to supply a bus service


    I actually consider Bus Eireann Public transport service more essential than Dublin Bus Service


    Dublin Bus users your only a small amount of the population of Ireland compared to the population outside Dublin

    The wildcat strike on Friday 31st of March was a minor inconvenience compared to what the population outside Dublin have been experiencing the past 16 days it don't even close to the same struggle commuters outside Dublin have been having.


    There is counties and Towns outside Dublin with huge population and has no train service at all yet some areas in Dublin and outside Dublin with less than 1/4 of the population have a train service

    Example Navan Co Meath has no Train Service but is the biggest growing population town in Ireland

    It's cost me in the past 15 days €480.00 in Taxis to get to and home from Work I have no private bus service to my work location as in nothing
    Bus Eireann is my only Bus Service

    Private Bus from Navan to Dublin only provides a few buses during peak hours and no bus from Dublin to Navan until 13.00 as in 1PM

    Public transport service funded by the tax payers is extreme important as it to provide a bus service during both Peak hours and Off Peak Hours

    Not everyone works 9-5 a lot work night shifts and during off peak hours so a Bus Service that provides bus transport during off peak hours is essential for the country

    A private bus operator will not provide a bus service during off peak hours

    Don't wish for our Public transport service be privatized you will have a service that will be of no use to a lot of the population and cause serious issues for a lot of people.

    If you look at annual ridership Bus Eireann's is 77million while Dublin Bus is 122 million so significantly was caused the unofficial Dublin Bus strike on that day then was by the Bus Eireann strike.

    Dublin Bus has more passengers than Bus Eireann as its services are urban which is a problem for Ireland regarding services in general not just public transport water, electricity, broadband and obivously public transport. You can't have the best of both worlds living in the countryside and expect efficent urban style services.

    Bus Eireann dosen't the 3.5 million that don't live in Dublin that you say I would say less than 2 million of that 3.5 million are actually served by Bus Eireann at all. I stated this in another that Bus Eireann predominantly serves cities and towns outside of Dublin in dosent every country lane, every tiny village or every farmers field in the country. I would say 75% of Bus Eireann's services are commuter services in and out of Dublin between places like Dublin and Navan, Drogheda, Naas, Ashbourne and Wicklow and it's City services in Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford.

    In most of rural Ireland people have cars they don't use Bus Eireann as it dosent serve they're area or the Bus Eireann service that does serve their area is only a token gesture as it's frequency is so pathetic to rely on. I holidayed a few times in Castlegregory in Kerry where there was one Bus Eireann a week so quite a lot of tourists and teenagers had to rely on hitching lifts into Tralee or Dingle the two nearest towns.

    Last summer I was in Italy I didn't bother renting a car as I am never let down by public transport abroad I stayed in a town admittedly but I took a few days trips to picturesque areas up the mountains and they all had about 5 or 6 buses a day running to them passenger wise the buses had a good mix of tourists and local a like. If these areas were in Ireland theres a good chance they wouldn't have any public transport at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    mugsymugsy wrote: »
    It's very frustrating for those that are severely impacted by this and i hope the union's and BE come to their senses and accept the changes or allow for a quick transition of the tendering of the PSO routes to other operators.

    Out of curiosity what size vehicle and what passenger numbers go on the services that you use to get to work on average?

    The Bus Eireann 109a Bus is very busy in the morning during Peak Hours as it provides transport to DCU and Dublin Airport as well as Ashbourne and Dublin City
    The 109A runs 24 hours a day every hour so it's very useful to navan public that needs a bus outside peak hours.

    It's not that busy when I get the Bus to work and home I have been on some occasions the only passenger LOL going to work but most times it would have around least 10 passengers during off peak hours.
    The Summertime holiday season can be very busy during off peak hours public going to Dublin Airport and return journey

    The 109A makes it's profit during the peak hours as in near to full bus
    The 109 to Dublin is very busy in the morning from Navan to Dublin you can easily find the bus full and have to wait for the next bus but it's very regular in the morning every 15 min


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    bk wrote: »
    I think many Corkonians have long seen BE as a distant Dublin based and focused quango, with little interest in the needs of Cork. I suspect many Corkonians would be much happier if the Cork City and Commuter services were operated by private companies under the direct control of the Cork City and County Councils with input from employers in Cork and the NTA obviously. A more local run and focused service then BE offers.

    As a fellow Corkonian, the impression locally was always that Bus Éireann never gave two hoots about Cork. Their actions speak for themselves, remember how they removed double decker buses from the city 20 odd years ago and replaced them with single deckers? When I was growing up, the number 10 (as it was then) used to have double deckers every now and again, then it became a once in a blue moon occurrence, then they just disappeared like that. I remember how much of a nightmare it used to be coming home from school on the number 2, again a problem that could have been easily solved if they had bought double deckers like they did in Dublin. I remember at one stage there were buses going around Cork in Dublin Bus colours, but they were actually Bus Éireann buses - I know because I went on one of them once! That kind of attitude says it all about how much Bus Éireann ever cared about Cork. I believe I read somewhere that the only reason there are now double deckers in Cork (and the other provincial cities) is because the NTA made Bus Éireann bring them back to Cork and the regional cities.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    Do you need to go home every day? Is there an chance of doing a deal with a BnB and staying a lot closer to work a couple of nights this week? I know there are shift patterns which make this impossible - but that's a mad amount to be spending.
    The cost of B&B and Hotels in Ashbourne is high
    The Hotels are often cheaper than a B&B in Ashbourne

    Cost can range from 79 euro a night to 99 euro a night it's close to Dublin so it can charge a high price

    Before the strike you could get the odd room at 50-60 euro a night but as soon as the strike kicked in the prices went up due to the demand


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,905 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    As a fellow Corkonian, the impression locally was always that Bus Éireann never gave two hoots about Cork. Their actions speak for themselves, remember how they removed double decker buses from the city 20 odd years ago and replaced them with single deckers? When I was growing up, the number 10 (as it was then) used to have double deckers every now and again, then it became a once in a blue moon occurrence, then they just disappeared like that. I remember how much of a nightmare it used to be coming home from school on the number 2, again a problem that could have been easily solved if they had bought double deckers like they did in Dublin. I remember at one stage there were buses going around Cork in Dublin Bus colours, but they were actually Bus Éireann buses - I know because I went on one of them once! That kind of attitude says it all about how much Bus Éireann ever cared about Cork. I believe I read somewhere that the only reason there are now double deckers in Cork (and the other provincial cities) is because the NTA made Bus Éireann bring them back to Cork and the regional cities.

    In fairness for transport operators it makes more sense for them maintenence and training wise to operate as many of the same type of vehicle as possible whether that be a single decker or double decker part the reason of the sucess of Ryanair is that.

    Perhaps operating bendy buses would be a solution to that as they can can similar load to double deckers and most ofamous them are the same spec model as a conventonal single decker. For example a Merc Citaro can be bought as both a one part single decker or a bendy bus.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,917 ✭✭✭GM228


    Talks in the WRC finished up with resolution, back in the morning (Sunday) for more talks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Or hire a car. They can be had for as little as 22 euro a day.
    I don't drive a car never even had any driving lessons
    I rely totally on public transport to get from A to B

    I could cycle the 15.4 miles each way as in 30.8 miles a day but that's is not easy thing to do after working a 12 hour shift

    Working night shifts is a lot different to someone working days cycling after a 12 hour shift and if you don't get enough sleep when you get home can end up having nasty affect to your health if you then try to cycle again 15.4 miles

    You can end up having only 4 hours sleep sometimes that will be just about ok but not if you need to cycle a long distance with the journey into work a lot uphill


    It's easy to say to the public drive a car you be surprised as to the amount of the population who don't own a car or even never taken any driving lessons

    The Bus Strike has had a huge impact on lot of the public with a lot of this going unnoticed you have lot of the elderly house bound with no transport available


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    paulboland wrote: »
    I don't drive a car never even had any driving lessons
    I rely totally on public transport to get from A to BB

    It's one of the life skills I'd advise anyone to get. You can't travel large parts of the world without driving. As soon as she was old enough I taught my daughter to drive. 7 months later she passed the test for a full licence. As time goes on the requirements are only getting harder.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    paulboland wrote: »
    Why should private bus operators be given the PSO routes already covered by Bus Eireann there is no need to do this.

    If all routes were put out fairly to tender then one operator would not be able to shut the network down. It's the reason CIE was split up into DB, IE, and BE in the first place.

    Your other point. On PSO routes the operators don't need to make a profit from the farebox. They're paid a flat rate to operate them and the fares go back to the NTA. Luas operates in this way. If you had been reading I had already said this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    unfortunately a tender model doesn't guarantee better, and especially cheeper, public transport, at least long term.
    Nobody is guaranteeing anything.
    The World Bank published a paper on competitive tendering of bus routes.
    They said that savings of 20-30% are generally achieved.
    Can you provide any credible evidence from a reputable source that shows that competitive tendering doesn't achieve savings?
    And please don't bother quoting the above unless you actually make an effort at addressing my points.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    n97 mini wrote: »
    If all routes were put out fairly to tender then one operator would not be able to shut the network down. It's the reason CIE was split up into DB, IE, and BE in the first place.

    Your other point. On PSO routes the operators don't need to make a profit from the farebox. They're paid a flat rate to operate them and the fares go back to the NTA. Luas operates in this way. If you had been reading I had already said this.
    No Private bus operators will not be getting the PSO routes that are already covered by Bus Eireann that will not change.

    If Private operators want routes why have they not applied for a licence on routes the National transport Authority want to be serviced and still needs to be serviced explain that one.


    Private bus operators only want the profitable routes they are not interested in providing a bus transport service on routes that won't make them a profit they really only want the best PSO routes already covered by bus eireann.

    The bigger problem is routes in counties and towns that need a bus transport service but neither Bus Eireann are providing a service nor is Private Bus operators it's these towns that need a bus service.
    That is what has been the problem for years a lot of towns with not enough bus transport outside Dublin.


    Private Bus operators cant provide any buses on Bus Eireann Routes during the strike unless they already have a licence for that route.

    Bus Eireann Strike where is the extra buses or change to timetables on the routes private bus operators do have a licence to operate on.

    Example
    Sillan Coaches has a Licence to provide private bus transport from Navan to Dublin
    They have not changed the timetable or amount of buses on the route even though they are allowed to provide extras buses as many as they want as long as it's only on existing licence route given to them by the NTA

    They have missed out on thousands of extra Navan customers every day

    Also explain before the strike why a lot of the private bus operators not provide a bus during off peak hours both directions as in why only provide a bus service during peak hours.

    Not everyone use a bus service during peak hours

    I can see big problems for private bus operators if they got a licence on a existing bus eireann PSO routes
    The off peak hours if they fail to provide a bus as per the timetable they will face a fine and even the possible loss of that days NTA funding.

    They will have a number of buses with no passengers during the day on occasions but as per NTA rules that bus must still complete the run on the route even if only 1 or no passengers gets on the bus during the run

    I can see private bus operators not cope with this on PSO routes they won't have regular customers during off peak hours


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,710 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    In fairness for transport operators it makes more sense for them maintenence and training wise to operate as many of the same type of vehicle as possible whether that be a single decker or double decker part the reason of the sucess of Ryanair is that.

    Perhaps operating bendy buses would be a solution to that as they can can similar load to double deckers and most ofamous them are the same spec model as a conventonal single decker. For example a Merc Citaro can be bought as both a one part single decker or a bendy bus.

    I have to totally disagree with you. Energy diesel in another word is a large cost. Maintenence if tendered out like other operators do is not a huge issue. A diesel engine is a diesel engine. Ryanair is a different senario. It amazing the way those that support state activity in an area that more than likely it should not be involved try to use the ultimate private setor monster as an example. If Ryanair was flying transatlantic it would have a different aircraft. for that route. In a fleet there is no reason not to have 2-5 different vehicules. The ESB, Coilte, Bord na Mona Vodafone, Eircom, different County Councils all operate multi fleet vehicules.

    BE jusl is incapable of change. Whether it is shifts, rota, management etc, etc.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,519 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Can't understand how so many are against BE , DB and Irish rail.


    I would be looking closer at who is ruining the country.

    I can't afford to live in Dublin where I work but if I quit my job and go on welfare I'll be put up there.

    I'm paying extortionate rent, tax and just cost of living in general.

    BE drivers and any other in any other company do a phenomenal job and work hard.... Yes not hard as in huge labour but many could be put in that seat and fail and get nowhere even have a mental breakdown as it can be that stressful and just a in thankful job at times.

    Management don't give a flying fcuk and its extremely sad to see so many on here against them as it will just roll on further and affect many families directly and indirectly.

    Many people are out of place and jobs will be lost if its let continue.

    Workers need to unite and fight for better conditions.

    Just because some other private fella pays minimum wage and has sh1t conditions doesn't mean they should all follow as I can see it turning to absolute sh1t and no one will stick at it or financially be able to.

    Government subvention needs to be right and also it didn't help when then took the fuel rebate tax off.


    People wake up it is only the start there will be nothing Irish run or controlled and also all these other companies run mostly from abroad are only making more people rich as the worker suffers.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Can't understand how so many are against BE , DB and Irish rail.


    I would be looking closer at who is ruining the country.

    I can't afford to live in Dublin where I work but if I quit my job and go on welfare I'll be put up there.

    I'm paying extortionate rent, tax and just cost of living in general.

    BE drivers and any other in any other company do a phenomenal job and work hard.... Yes not hard as in huge labour but many could be put in that seat and fail and get nowhere even have a mental breakdown as it can be that stressful and just a in thankful job at times.

    Management don't give a flying fcuk and its extremely sad to see so many on here against them as it will just roll on further and affect many families directly and indirectly.

    Many people are out of place and jobs will be lost if its let continue.

    Workers need to unite and fight for better conditions.

    Just because some other private fella pays minimum wage and has sh1t conditions doesn't mean they should all follow as I can see it turning to absolute sh1t and no one will stick at it or financially be able to.

    Government subvention needs to be right and also it didn't help when then took the fuel rebate tax off.


    People wake up it is only the start there will be nothing Irish run or controlled and also all these other companies run mostly from abroad are only making more people rich as the worker suffers.....

    I'm sorry but it is only BÉ workers that have put their jobs at risk. The workers could go back to work tomorrow on terms which essentially are "no more overtime lads" if they wanted to.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,567 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    n97 mini wrote: »
    If all routes were put out fairly to tender then one operator would not be able to shut the network down. It's the reason CIE was split up into DB, IE, and BE in the first place.

    that's not a good enough reason for it though. as it is the whole network can't be shut down, only part of it. a big part of it admittidly.
    n97 mini wrote: »
    Your other point. On PSO routes the operators don't need to make a profit from the farebox. They're paid a flat rate to operate them and the fares go back to the NTA. Luas operates in this way. If you had been reading I had already said this.

    the fee will have to be attractive however. the big multi-nationals will want to get a good bit to make it worth their while i should think.
    Nobody is guaranteeing anything.
    The World Bank published a paper on competitive tendering of bus routes.
    They said that savings of 20-30% are generally achieved.

    they actually used the words, "potentially" and "at first"

    but not long term.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,519 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    I'm sorry but it is only BÉ workers that have put their jobs at risk. The workers could go back to work tomorrow on terms which essentially are "no more overtime lads" if they wanted to.

    You don't understand what this whole matter means and if they let it through what's next as that all that's happening.

    Cut cut cut. Fcuk the worker. As I said normal decent workers unite don't fight against.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,548 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    You don't understand what this whole matter means and if they let it through what's next as that all that's happening.

    Cut cut cut. Fcuk the worker. As I said normal decent workers unite don't fight against.

    I fully understand what this matter means, I m sorry to have to say.

    It means at long last someone stood up for the taxpayer and prevented a group,led by opportunists, from continuing to gouge the taxpayer with blatant inefficiencies.

    The company was losing money at an alarming rate,This was obvious to everyone but the unions thought the minister would crumble.

    They got it badly wrong so far.The worm has turned.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    paulboland wrote: »
    No Private bus operators will not be getting the PSO routes that are already covered by Bus Eireann that will not change.

    If Private operators want routes why have they not applied for a licence on routes the National transport Authority want to be serviced and still needs to be serviced explain that one.


    Private bus operators only want the profitable routes they are not interested in providing a bus transport service on routes that won't make them a profit they really only want the best PSO routes already covered by bus eireann.

    The bigger problem is routes in counties and towns that need a bus transport service but neither Bus Eireann are providing a service nor is Private Bus operators it's these towns that need a bus service.
    That is what has been the problem for years a lot of towns with not enough bus transport outside Dublin.


    Private Bus operators cant provide any buses on Bus Eireann Routes during the strike unless they already have a licence for that route.

    Bus Eireann Strike where is the extra buses or change to timetables on the routes private bus operators do have a licence to operate on.

    Example
    Sillan Coaches has a Licence to provide private bus transport from Navan to Dublin
    They have not changed the timetable or amount of buses on the route even though they are allowed to provide extras buses as many as they want as long as it's only on existing licence route given to them by the NTA

    They have missed out on thousands of extra Navan customers every day

    Also explain before the strike why a lot of the private bus operators not provide a bus during off peak hours both directions as in why only provide a bus service during peak hours.

    Not everyone use a bus service during peak hours

    I can see big problems for private bus operators if they got a licence on a existing bus eireann PSO routes
    The off peak hours if they fail to provide a bus as per the timetable they will face a fine and even the possible loss of that days NTA funding.

    They will have a number of buses with no passengers during the day on occasions but as per NTA rules that bus must still complete the run on the route even if only 1 or no passengers gets on the bus during the run

    I can see private bus operators not cope with this on PSO routes they won't have regular customers during off peak hours

    Bus Eireann serves rural routes and routes that are not commercially viable is it is paid to do so. It is given free vehicles to do so and the taxpayer spent almost 100 million euro on it last year. Private operators don't as they don't get free vehicles and are not funded to do so as of yet.

    I know you are trying to make out that in a romantic way that Bus E is some kind of God who does it out of the kindness of their hearts and are portraying rural Ireland as a victim but it's a false narrative.

    Also whilst private operators may provide relief services during the strike leaving at same time as normal services they cannot add services or extra departures at different times to the already existing timetable.

    For PSO routes if a bus has 0,30,60 passengers makes no difference since the operator is paid for running the bus and the fare revenue goes straight to the NTA and the timetable and fare is set by them too.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    None of the employees in this strike are "looking for unjustified pay raises".

    What they have highlighted, is that they have not received an increase in pay for many years, but are being told they must take a cut in their pay.

    It doesn't surprise me that that issue is being twisted by people, in this forum, who are critical of them striking.

    I wouldn't describe the government as "representing the people of Ireland".

    I would consider that those in government are representing themselves.

    An example of this is, the way that Alan Farrell and Noel Rock are trying to be cute and strategic, in the way that they are trying to show support to, one or other of the TDs, who they think will be the successful Fine Gael successor to Enda Kenny.

    But then they completely back track after Enda Kenny survived the recent Fine Gael parliamentary party meeting, where, there was an intention to force Enda Kenny to stand aside, to make way Leo Varadkar, Simon Coveney, or Simon Harris, or anyone else who is ambitious to become leader.

    As part of that, they speak on radio showing support to whoever they think will be the most likely to succeed in the Fine Gael leadership election.

    I wouldn't consider a public representative, that is implementing measures, as part of a government, that contradict what they stated prior to forming government, as "representing the people of Ireland".

    I wouldn't consider Big Phil's "trickle" remark, all that democratic, either!:)





    http://www.thejournal.ie/water-charges-3-1450138-May2014/

    Over half of that post has nothing to do with transport -- so, it's off topic. Warning about being off topic have been given before, so view this as your very last warning!

    -- moderator


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,508 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    If I'm honest I'm actually quite surprised this has gone on as long as it has. Is it Day 17 today? Fair play to the minister for not budging.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭horseburger


    devnull wrote: »
    Bus Eireann serves rural routes and routes that are not commercially viable is it is paid to do so. It is given free vehicles to do so and the taxpayer spent almost 100 million euro on it last year. Private operators don't as they don't get free vehicles and are not funded to do so as of yet.

    I know you are trying to make out that in a romantic way that Bus E is some kind of God who does it out of the kindness of their hearts and are portraying rural Ireland as a victim but it's a false narrative.

    Also whilst private operators may provide relief services during the strike leaving at same time as normal services they cannot add services or extra departures at different times to the already existing timetable.

    For PSO routes if a bus has 0,30,60 passengers makes no difference since the operator is paid for running the bus and the fare revenue goes straight to the NTA and the timetable and fare is set by them too.

    Do you think it is possible that Sillan Tours - as referenced, in the post by paulboland http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103165153&postcount=2147 - might decide, at some point, to submit an application to the NTA, to operate services from Dublin, much later than at present, where its last service from Dublin is currently 7.15pm?

    Would the NTA, respond positively to an application by Sillan Tours, to operate later services from Dublin, or perhaps a more regular service throughout the whole day, to and from Dublin and Shercock, in a silimar way to the services by Collins Coaches, to and from Carrickmacross and Dublin, and Matthews Coaches, to and from Dundalk and Dublin?

    Was there anything prohibiting Sillan Tours from making such a proposal, over the last 20 years or so, or in recent years, to operate later services from Dublin, or a very frequent, regular service to and from Dublin and Shercock throughout the day, considering that Sillan Tours serve locations beyond Navan that are not served by the 109 and 107 services, for example, Shercock and Cootehill, as well as a number of locations in Navan, not served by either the 107 or 109 services?

    (This is a sincere question. This is not a criticism of private coach services. I have regularly spoken positively of each of these services, and other private coach services, in previous posts in this discussion, and in different threads.)

    http://sillan.ie/
    http://www.matthews.ie/
    http://collinscoaches.ie/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 276 ✭✭kiaronh


    You don't understand what this whole matter means and if they let it through what's next as that all that's happening.

    Cut cut cut. Fcuk the worker. As I said normal decent workers unite don't fight against.

    BE is losing money. They will become insolvent if they don't make cuts.

    I'm all for workers uniting for better pay and conditions, but that money has to come from somewhere. And the unions ate ignoring that fact by only offering savings of less than 0.5 million to plug a hole of 6 million.

    The company can't pay workers money they don't have. Where do you suggest they get this money from?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,519 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    kiaronh wrote: »
    BE is losing money. They will become insolvent if they don't make cuts.

    I'm all for workers uniting for better pay and conditions, but that money has to come from somewhere. And the unions ate ignoring that fact by only offering savings of less than 0.5 million to plug a hole of 6 million.

    The company can't pay workers money they don't have. Where do you suggest they get this money from?

    Trains lose even more.

    How can BE compete with all these new operators with non stop routes where BE has to serve all the towns and villages.

    The government have cut subvention so no wonder they are losing money.

    See the government are happy to let this happen as they want all semi state and state bodies to be mostly privatised and IMO that's a very bad idea.

    Luas is paid for by the tax payer and fare payers who gains from it a private non Irish company.
    I would rather see that money come back to the state and tax payer as we are been royaly screwed over.

    Same goes with Irish water they can't just admit they got it wrong and say EU we are not doing it your way and to be honest that excuse is rubbish.

    This new alcohol bill is another push to get more money also as minimum pricing will be brought in.

    I just think people need to look a little deeper and see what is actually going on.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    paulboland wrote: »
    No Private bus operators will not be getting the PSO routes that are already covered by Bus Eireann that will not change.

    I'd be interested to see the source for that particular fact.

    What does your source say happens to the routes if BE goes into examinership/receivership?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    paulboland wrote: »
    No Private bus operators will not be getting the PSO routes that are already covered by Bus Eireann that will not change.

    If Private operators want routes why have they not applied for a licence on routes the National transport Authority want to be serviced and still needs to be serviced explain that one.


    Private bus operators only want the profitable routes they are not interested in providing a bus transport service on routes that won't make them a profit they really only want the best PSO routes already covered by bus eireann.

    I'm not sure if you misunderstand. PSO routes are profitable for Bus Eireann (only) as they get paid money to operate them. The only other bus operator in the same position is Dublin Bus.

    Private bus operators would probably love to be paid to operate PSO routes in the same way BE are, but they're blocked from that process. BE has the monopoly.

    You seem to be opposed to anyone other than BE being paid to operate PSO routes, while complaining that you're spending €480 a week on taxis because BE are on strike. There is a large amount of irony there. Bit like turkeys voting for Christmas.


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