BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

pilly · 07-04-2017 07:29PM

bk wrote:

I think many Corkonians have long seen BE as a distant Dublin based and focused quango, with little interest in the needs of Cork. I suspect many Corkonians would be much happier if the Cork City and Commuter services were operated by private companies under the direct control of the Cork City and County Councils with input from employers in Cork and the NTA obviously. A more local run and focused service then BE offers.

You make an excellent point. There should be an equivalent to Dublin Bus in Cork City. It works so well in Dublin. And no that's not sarcasm. It's a great service.

horseburger · 07-04-2017 07:29PM

n97 mini wrote: »

What fringe element doesn't deserve my money, in your opinion?

Perhaps the one that isn't a "bunch of muppets"?

pilly · 07-04-2017 07:32PM

bk wrote:

I might live in Dublin City, but I go hiking in rural Ireland most weekends and even well before this strike, it wouldn't be at all unusual for us to pick up hitch hikers if we had space in the car. maybe every second weekend or so. Teenagers getting to the next town to see their friends, backpackers, old fellas getting home from the pub. It really isn't that unusual in rural Ireland, nor is it dangerous

I also live in rural Ireland and give people lifts everywhere.

horseburger · 07-04-2017 07:52PM

pilly wrote: »

I also live in rural Ireland and give people lifts everywhere.

If you were travelling on a main road, going to a town 16 miles away, that didn't necessitate you veering off that main road, and you met someone, near your home, just as you were leaving - who was waiting for a local bus, and it was delayed - or if this person was using this local bus for "non essential" purposes, and they decided to make way for people using it to go to work, because the bus was filling up to capacity with more people waiting, than available seats - if this person was travelling to a village, or town, located nine miles to the left, off that main road, would you give them a lift?

Hilly Bill · 07-04-2017 08:18PM

Seen one chap in an nbru hi viz today who thought he was the dogs nuts, he had written with a marker the words " strike force " at the bottom of it :-D. Must be the rapid response crew :-).

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 08:19PM

pilly wrote: »

You make an excellent point. There should be an equivalent to Dublin Bus in Cork City. It works so well in Dublin. And no that's not sarcasm. It's a great service.

I think a " transport for Cork " would be a better process, an umbrella regulator under which privatised service would be homogenised, no need to create another state breast with nipple for workers

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 08:20PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Seen one chap in an nbru hi viz today who thought he was the dogs nuts, he had written with a marker the words " strike force " at the bottom of it :-D. Must be the rapid response crew :-).

must be reading too much Andy McNab

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 07-04-2017 08:28PM

The company has to be getting close to shutting up shop now. 17 (?)days out, soon to be 18 is 9 million in losses. I reckon it's beyond saving at this stage.

The Parish Priest. · 07-04-2017 08:30PM

Hard to believe this farce has lasted 2 weeks, How long more until the liquidator is appointed ?

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 08:31PM

Hector Disgusting Beachcomber wrote: »

The company has to be getting close to shutting up shop now. 17 (?)days out, soon to be 18 is 9 million in losses. I reckon it's beyond saving at this stage.

simply being insolvent is not in itself a reason to close the business . s company can trade while insolvent if the directors feel that there is a way out of such insolvency , for example , where costs have been reduced.

equally , I dont really think in any circumstance that BE will be allowed to go to the wall , as much I would like it to.

magentis · 07-04-2017 08:38PM

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

The company has to be getting close to shutting up shop now. 17 (?)days out, soon to be 18 is 9 million in losses. I reckon it's beyond saving at this stage.

Ah,come on now lads can ye not see the wood for the trees?

The reason for the loss figures emailed to the media is to drive down the pay and conditions of the workforce.

The dogs on the street know that.

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 08:44PM

magentis wrote: »

Ah,come on now lads can ye not see the wood for the trees?

The reason for the loss figures emailed to the media is to drive down the pay and conditions of the workforce.

The dogs on the street know that.

the dogs in the street know the truth sure

BE expressway , cant complete , looses money in 2014, 15,16 and 17

low net asset base makes BE vulnerable to sustained losses

cut costs ( wages make up 75% of costs ) or shut services and redundancies follow

the dogs know the truth all right

oppenheimer1 · 07-04-2017 08:45PM

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

The company has to be getting close to shutting up shop now. 17 (?)days out, soon to be 18 is 9 million in losses. I reckon it's beyond saving at this stage.

If these talks that are ongoing break down then I'd say the examiner we'll be called in.

At this stage though BÉ as we currently know it is gone. What I expect to see is a huge severance package for long serving staff followed by cuts to overtime. As these union's tend to be stocked full of lifers they will be bought off and the junior drivers will take the hit.

Happens every time - so much so I wonder why junior staff bother with Unions at all.

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 08:49PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

If these talks that are ongoing break down then I'd say the examiner we'll be called in.

At this stage though BÃ‰ as we currently know it is gone. What I expect to see is a huge severance package for long serving staff followed by cuts to overtime. As these union's tend to be stocked full of lifers they will be bought off and the junior drivers will take the hit.

Happens every time - so much so I wonder why junior staff bother with Unions at all.

examiner cant award anyone " huge severance " , he or she is primary concerned with the potential for survival of the business as " a going concern ". Thats all. BE after sustained losses will have a very tight cashflow position, so a big payout would be impossible

The examiner would then be in the same position as the company management and without staff agreement , would simply recommend liquidation

quadrifoglio verde · 07-04-2017 08:52PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

If these talks that are ongoing break down then I'd say the examiner we'll be called in.

At this stage though BÉ as we currently know it is gone. What I expect to see is a huge severance package for long serving staff followed by cuts to overtime. As these union's tend to be stocked full of lifers they will be bought off and the junior drivers will take the hit.

Happens every time - so much so I wonder why junior staff bother with Unions at all.

Because the union heads in the company convince the newbies to join. They literally gang up on you until you do

Peppa Pig · 07-04-2017 08:54PM

magentis wrote: »

The reason for the loss figures emailed to the media is to drive down the pay and conditions of the workforce.

Do you seriously believe that, really?
Annual report 2015
Independently audited by Price Waterhouse Coopers - are they complicit, as well as feeding info to the media?

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 08:55PM

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Do you seriously believe that, really?
Annual report 2015
Independently audited by Price Waterhouse Coopers - are they complicit, as well as feeding info to the media?

dont descend into facts , it will confuse him

magentis · 07-04-2017 08:56PM

BoatMad wrote: »

the dogs in the street know the truth sure

BE expressway , cant complete , looses money in 2014, 15,16 and 17

low net asset base makes BE vulnerable to sustained losses

cut costs ( wages make up 75% of costs ) or shut services and redundancies follow

the dogs know the truth all right

Yes,
It looses money in 2014,15,16,17 due to the fact that private operators are allowed to cherry pick lucrative direct routes,while bus eireann serves the towns and villages that need to be served.PSO routes under a different name.

Indeed wage costs are a major talking point,one has to ask for answers when the executive+"manager" salaries and benefits are looked at vs contribution to the company bottom line.

You may also be incorrect regarding assets,questions have been asked that remain unanswered regarding the CIE group split of 1987.

Peppa Pig · 07-04-2017 08:57PM

BoatMad wrote: »

examiner cant award anyone " huge severance " ,

The first thing they would do is to trim out the fat, about 3/400 drivers would get statutory redundancy, paid for by the taxpayer. At least the union would get some taxpayer money in.

magentis · 07-04-2017 08:57PM

BoatMad wrote: »

dont descend into facts , it will confuse him

Facts!

I see your facts in the ev forum!!!!

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 08:58PM

magentis wrote: »

Facts!

I see your facts in the ev forum!!!!

not my facts , PWC facts,

oppenheimer1 · 07-04-2017 08:58PM

BoatMad wrote: »

examiner cant award anyone " huge severance " , he or she is primary concerned with the potential for survival of the business as " a going concern ". Thats all. BE after sustained losses will have a very tight cashflow position, so a big payout would be impossible

The examiner would then be in the same position as the company management and without staff agreement , would simply recommend liquidation

The CIE parent company had said it would fund redundancies if that was required to save the company iirc.

In the scenario outlined in my previous post it would be contingent on BÉ avoiding going into examinership.

magentis · 07-04-2017 08:59PM

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Because the union heads in the company convince the newbies to join. They literally gang up on you until you do

Indeed,
so the employee can instead go cap in hand to pay for his or her uniform in the likes of ryanair?

magentis · 07-04-2017 09:00PM

BoatMad wrote: »

not my facts , PWC facts,

PWC can only audit whats is in front of them.

magentis · 07-04-2017 09:01PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The CIE parent company had said it would fund redundancies if that was required to save the company iirc.

In the scenario outlined in my previous post it would be contingent on BÃ‰ avoiding going into examinership.

The holding company has a lot to answer for,this is a key issue in current talks.

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 09:04PM

magentis wrote: »

,

It looses money in 2014,15,16,17 due to the fact that private operators are allowed to cherry pick lucrative direct routes,while bus eireann serves the towns

That fact has been dispelled , the routes licensed out at expressway level are basically identical between BE and a private operator licensed on the same route . For example the BE and wexford bus from wexford essentially serve the same places

and villages that need to be served.PSO routes under a different name.

Expressway doesnt and was never meant to serve villages

Indeed wage costs are a major talking point,one has to ask for answers when the executive+"manager" salaries and benefits are looked at vs contribution to the company bottom line.

sure shred them, its not going to solve the issue, you could reduce management pay to minimum wage and it wont solve the problem

You may also be incorrect regarding assets,questions have been asked that remain unanswered regarding the CIE group split of 1987.

maybe but thats a long time ago,

The 2015 position shoes net assets at 16 million, then add back depreciation of older busses ( as new ones are bought ) and add in three years losses and you can clearly see that BE has very little ability too withstand continuous losses

NOTE : it broke even on PSO routes

The simple answer is BE should abandon expressway ,The company doesnt need it , its a liability and the private operators can easily handle the requirements . BE becomes a PSO only entity

BoatMad · 07-04-2017 09:04PM

magentis wrote: »

PWC can only audit whats is in front of them.

yes the numbers as it pertains to BE

oppenheimer1 · 07-04-2017 09:06PM

magentis wrote: »

Indeed,
so the employee can instead go cap in hand to pay for his or her uniform in the likes of ryanair?

Really though, why would a young person join a union? When you look at what happened during the financial crisis, the only way to get the Unions on board with the necessary cuts to public pay, was to absolutely hammer the earning potential of new and future hires. The only reason for this was to protect the inflated earnings of older members and senior people.

Solidarity me bollocks. I would never join a public sector union.

Peppa Pig · 07-04-2017 09:07PM

magentis wrote: »

PWC can only audit whats is in front of them.

So they must have seen facts showing that losses were only to reduce staff costs ...

And - Ryanair staff get â‚¬325 uniform allowance. Keep trying

L1011 · 07-04-2017 09:08PM

magentis wrote: »

PWC can only audit whats is in front of them.

Have you the libel insurance for accusing a limited company of cooking the books like this?

BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

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