Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

statto25 · 03-04-2017 09:16AM

Oldtree wrote: »

It is extraordinary, but I heard that they have started using homing pigeons that actually live in Dublin

Sure with all the money the Dubs have and the pool of pidgeons they have to pick from, Mayo pidgeons were always going to be second best.

PressRun · 03-04-2017 12:03PM

PARlance wrote: »

Hold on there and get a grip yourself. There's clearly a crowd that have it out for him. I'm not saying that everyone that questions his stamina is included in that group but I'm fairly sure most of that group will be suggesting he doesn't start. They've been fairly quiet of late though.

And there is still an argument to be made that he doesn't have a full 75 minutes in him, whether people like him or not. I do happen to think that there are plenty of people who don't like him based on petty reasons, but it doesn't invalidate the debate about his stamina over a full match and whether he could he utilised in a different way, and suggesting that any conversation about thay is just "anti aido" is just a way to shut down debate tbh.

I happen to think it's not that he just looks tired, a lot of the time I think he is pretty tired. He plays a very physical game and often has to contend with more than one defender hanging out of him for the duration of the match. This isn't just physically draining, but mentally frustrating when he can't shake the two or three men holding him with no free given. Having him come on later in a match when said defenders aren't as sharp could have its rewards. I wouldn't mind seeing Philly McMahon trying to jump on his back when he comes on fresh.

Call me Al · 03-04-2017 12:14PM

I'm not always his biggest fan on the pitch. I do think that he sometimes make a things harder for himself on the pitch than he needs to by looking for and almost running towards the opposition when he could use open space to advance further. Maybe he gets a free and maybe he doesn't. It can be annoying to watch. He has a talent but i think cr@p like this detracts from it.

But I agree he gets more attention on the pitch than the average player. And invariably it's more physical which is bound to harder on the body. I don't think he looks fully fit yet but there's time. I couldn't watch yesterday's game but by all accounts, first hand and otherwise, he made a significant impact. The atmosphere and pace changed after he came on. Can he do the full 70 minutes + a bit extra? I hope so. I think they can be better with him than without.

boosabum · 03-04-2017 12:48PM

The big question is not if he can do it for 75 minutes, it's can he do it for 75 minutes in an All Ireland Final and dominate a game.
He has played in 4 (including replays) at senior level.
A player of his stature should be looking to pull a team over the line

seligehgit · 03-04-2017 01:14PM

boosabum wrote: »

The big question is not if he can do it for 75 minutes, it's can he do it for 75 minutes in an All Ireland Final and dominate a game.
He has played in 4 (including replays) at senior level.
A player of his stature should be looking to pull a team over the line

Totally agree this is the stage on which we should be judging the Aidan O Sheas of this world,thus far he has come up short.What is not open doubt is that he is not a 75 minutes man.

The war on the thread is more so about whither he should start or not,I get the logic of launching him on tired bodies but it is in IMO such a waste of so talented a player to restrict him to twenty minutes.

One option is to do a Peter Canavan(carrying an injury into the All Ireland final v Armagh in 2003),start him,take him off and reintroduce him.It does reduce your range of fresh bodies/substitutes evidently.Just a thought.

flasher0030 · 03-04-2017 01:49PM

seligehgit wrote: »

Totally agree this is the stage on which we should be judging the Aidan O Sheas of this world,thus far he has come up short.What is not open doubt is that he is not a 75 minutes man.

The war on the thread is more so about whither he should start or not,I get the logic of launching him on tired bodies but it is in IMO such a waste of so talented a player to restrict him to twenty minutes.

One option is to do a Peter Canavan(carrying an injury into the All Ireland final v Armagh in 2003),start him,take him off and reintroduce him.It does reduce your range of fresh bodies/substitutes evidently.Just a thought.

Ah here, April fools day is over.

PARlance · 03-04-2017 01:59PM

PressRun wrote: »

And there is still an argument to be made that he doesn't have a full 75 minutes in him, whether people like him or not. I do happen to think that there are plenty of people who don't like him based on petty reasons, but it doesn't invalidate the debate about his stamina over a full match and whether he could he utilised in a different way, and suggesting that any conversation about thay is just "anti aido" is just a way to shut down debate tbh.

We may have taken each up wrong. I've no problem with debating his stamina etc, it's a valid debate and interesting topic. I just have a problem with the (Mayo) crowd that seem to have it in for him. My post wasn't aimed at yourself or anyone in particular.

PressRun wrote: »

I happen to think it's not that he just looks tired, a lot of the time I think he is pretty tired. He plays a very physical game and often has to contend with more than one defender hanging out of him for the duration of the match. This isn't just physically draining, but mentally frustrating when he can't shake the two or three men holding him with no free given. Having him come on later in a match when said defenders aren't as sharp could have its rewards. I wouldn't mind seeing Philly McMahon trying to jump on his back when he comes on fresh.

When would you bring him on against Dublin for e.g?
I can't argue with any of the above but I'm with Seligehgit, I think there's way more than 20/25 mins there... and I'm not sure we'd be still in contention without him for 50.

The on, off, on again would be interesting. Sachet of ketchup in the socks.

km79 · 03-04-2017 02:07PM

On off again was in the day's before the black card
Subs are too valuable now
Preplanned subs just do not work in the modern era with so many collisions etc etc

He is one of our best players
We have a limited squad
Talk of not starting him and bringing him on for 20 minutes is ludicrous

This isn't even a debate as there is no way Rochford will entertain it thankfully

Andy is the 20/25 minute man for us now imo

Panrich · 03-04-2017 02:31PM

How many championship starters did we find during the league? None would be my answer. Nally and Coen might have forced their way in but they were both there last year.

PARlance · 03-04-2017 02:50PM

Any post mortems for the League campaign as a whole?

I'm not sure what to make of it tbh. Great to get the 2 wins at the end but they were far from great wins. We could and should have been buried by Kerry but a great comeback. The Rossies rolled over so we can't look into that too much.
The campaign is probably a reflection of us as a team, tend to let things get to a worrying stage before make a right fight of it. Never really pushing on and making it easy for ourselves.

There's plenty of room for encouragement which is good but I would have hoped that we would have seen more of a stamp put on the team by Rochford. Maybe his stamp is that we play the opposition rather than being tied to a certain gameplan. Injuries didn't help if trying to come up with a plan.

If Higgins is our sweeper I'd be happy with that. While we were suspect at the back during the league, I would be confident we'll get that sorted soon.

A few more options up front but no new hope really grabbed it by the proverbials. Like the look of Boland and Nally but can't see them making a massive impact this year. Andy still has a big role, the worry is that while he'll do great against the majority of teams, the betters ones will have his number if we're lucky to progress that far.

I still think we need something to shake things up. Aidan as a FF or an attacking wing back being thrown in there. A big worry follows the O'Connors. I'm really not sure how he sees Cillian's role and there's something not right with Diarmuid. I would have been much happier if he was given a month or two off.

Midfield looks solid enough if not spectacular. A few options there. Barry Moran seems to have vanished?

All that without mentioning a Kick Out. Donegal seemed to target them for a bit, the better teams will.

Conclusion: Haven't a clue where we stand.

naughto · 03-04-2017 02:54PM

km79 wrote: »

On off again was in the day's before the black card
Subs are too valuable now
Preplanned subs just do not work in the modern era with so many collisions etc etc

He is one of our best players
We have a limited squad
Talk of not starting him and bringing him on for 20 minutes is ludicrous

This isn't even a debate as there is no way Rochford will entertain it thankfully

Andy is the 20/25 minute man for us now imo

We have a limited squad that is why it's best to use what we have in the right way, every one agrees he is not a full 70min plus man but every game he starts he is never taken off,I think it's far better to have him fresh coming on we will give 35 mins 2nd half to do his damage.

The way it is with being left on the full game is a waste the backs will have got the better of him with two/ three on him all the time, they will no that if he is there the ball will be coming to him.
If we have him coming in the 2nd half then it will change how we play cos with the way it is now or attacking tactics have not changed since Horan was in the job

km79 · 03-04-2017 05:49PM

I will never agree with this so I'm moving onto a separate point we can all agree on

Keith Higgins is the ideal man for the sweeper role
He was absolutely fantastic second half
Pushing on at pace

seligehgit · 03-04-2017 06:55PM

km79 wrote: »

I will never agree with this so I'm moving onto a separate point we can all agree on

Keith Higgins is the ideal man for the sweeper role
He was absolutely fantastic second half
Pushing on at pace

Yip he's absolutely wasted at full back and not suited to the position.He should be utilised in a more forward position.

Stoner · 03-04-2017 07:13PM

seligehgit wrote:

Yip he's absolutely wasted at full back and not suited to the position.He should be utilised in a more forward position.

He got one class point yesterday beat all around him and horsed his way into space before sending it over the bar. I only saw the highlights but he does look like a natural footballer who could do a job in the half-forward line.

mayo.mick · 03-04-2017 08:19PM

Some video of the match yesterday

wirelessdude01 · 03-04-2017 08:59PM

Stoner wrote:

He got one class point yesterday beat all around him and horsed his way into space before sending it over the bar. I only saw the highlights but he does look like a natural footballer who could do a job in the half-forward line.

But sure wasn't he tried in half forward line previously and everyone agreed he was more effective as an attacking cornerback coming onto the ball.

Agree though that sweeper could suit him. Seems to have good game intelligence.

Stoner · 03-04-2017 10:03PM

wirelessdude01 wrote:

But sure wasn't he tried in half forward line previously and everyone agreed he was more effective as an attacking cornerback coming onto the ball.

He was given a spell there right, but you've good defenders now and fewer forwards. He's not the loss in the backs that he was.

seligehgit · 03-04-2017 10:30PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

But sure wasn't he tried in half forward line previously and everyone agreed he was more effective as an attacking cornerback coming onto the ball.

Agree though that sweeper could suit him. Seems to have good game intelligence.

Agreed he was tried out in 2013 with a degree of success but he's much better coming into the ball as opposed to facing it.

We've plenty of options for the half back line,he as opposed to Colm Boyle or Kevin McLoughlin appears to be ideally suited to the role as a sweeper.He most certainly has the game intelligence for the role.His talents are a tad wasted at corner back and he's not quite as good in same position as in his vintage years.

PARlance · 03-04-2017 10:38PM

With the added bonus that he's a defender. He's the best placed for the role imo, the stint at FB would have helped too.

thestar · 03-04-2017 11:56PM

Anybody know why Colm Boyle was taken off? Was he injured?

seligehgit · 04-04-2017 12:06AM

thestar wrote: »

Anybody know why Colm Boyle was taken off? Was he injured?

I'd believe he simply ran out of gas,I don't believe he was injured.

MayoAreMagic · 04-04-2017 01:05PM

thestar wrote: »

Anybody know why Colm Boyle was taken off? Was he injured?

Tactical switch Id imagine. Coen probably gets around the pitch more, and is a better option for our own kickout, which we were struggling on. Donegal have a lot of very mobile guys operating in the middle third, Coen probably suited that type of game more than Boyle.

Also, I must say Im not really getting the criticism AOS is getting from fans from other counties, and indeed Rory Kavanagh. Fair enough, I know people dont like him and I have been critical of him myself, but the guy got a deliberate kick in the b*lls!
Personally, I think the question should be why do donegal defenders seem to be doing this sort of thing.

yop · 04-04-2017 09:30PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Also, I must say Im not really getting the criticism AOS is getting from fans from other counties, and indeed Rory Kavanagh. Fair enough, I know people dont like him and I have been critical of him myself, but the guy got a deliberate kick in the b*lls!
Personally, I think the question should be why do donegal defenders seem to be doing this sort of thing.

Just can't take their beating. AOS put manners on them when he came on. More of a case of can give it out but certainly cant take it.

Dyr · 04-04-2017 09:47PM

mayo.mick wrote: »

Some video of the match yesterday

Note donegal maor foirne being spoken to by deegan for sticking his bake in all the time. Donegal have this gamesmanship dirt down to a fine art.

Kavanagh was running across middle of the the pitch every time Cluxton took a kick out in the semi last year. Running behind the goals too.

Should have had bernard dunne chin him, the gob****e

PressRun · 05-04-2017 09:57AM

Not sure what all the whinging about the red is either. The guy struck out with his foot, caught him in the nads. It was a red card.

While we're on it, not sure how Michael Murphy stayed on the pitch. Was satisfying to see O'Shea put manners on him when he came on.

MayoAreMagic · 05-04-2017 10:21AM

PressRun wrote: »

Not sure what all the whinging about the red is either. The guy struck out with his foot, caught him in the nads. It was a red card.

While we're on it, not sure how Michael Murphy stayed on the pitch. Was satisfying to see O'Shea put manners on him when he came on.

Ah it is very unfair. If it was another sport the guy would be facing a long ban, yet in the gaa we focus on the other guy for going down too fast, ffs... Any guy who has gotten some amount of contact in that area with know that all bets are off as regards how painful it is, and Billy Joe Padden should have manned up and shot Kavanagh down far more forcefully on League Sunday at the insinuation that AOS had dived.

There would have been nothing wrong with saying 'well rory, if you want to just stand up there and I will give you the same boot, and we will see how fast you go down as a mode of comparison', it would have made the point in a humorous way, but still made the point. The mayo guys in the media are far too docile for my liking.

MaroonAndGreen · 10-04-2017 01:23PM

I've just been looking at the Galway thread and it makes for great reading at the moment. I hope the players are as carried away as the supporters are. They've done very well to win Division Two but have beaten no good team. There is talk on the Galway thread of them being in the top 5 teams in the country. That kind of talk bodes well for Mayo IMO. It was a definite part of Galway capitulating against Tipp last year, getting carried away.

MfMan · 10-04-2017 01:28PM

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

I've just been looking at the Galway thread and it makes for great reading at the moment. I hope the players are as carried away as the supporters are. They've done very well to win Division Two but have beaten no good team. There is talk on the Galway thread of them being in the top 5 teams in the country. That kind of talk bodes well for Mayo IMO. It was a definite part of Galway capitulating against Tipp last year, getting carried away.

Doubt anyone south of Ballindine will be getting too excited just yet; years of bitter experience has taught us enough harsh lessons and our back lines are of the greatest concern still. Yesterday's win just adds a little more spice to the (surely) meeting on June 11. Hope it's a fine day, should be a great occasion.

We do be keeping an eye on things here too you know, watching what ye're up to!

Stoner · 10-04-2017 01:47PM

MfMan wrote:

Doubt anyone south of Ballindine will be getting too excited just yet.

Exactly, one poster said it and the Galway lads burried it. They even named the top 6 and they weren't in it and Mayo are.

TBH like Roscommon a couple of years ago, I'd fear for any division 2 team handling Mayo, Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry, Monaghan Donegal in the tackle or for pace over 70 minutes.

I thought that at a slower D2 pace Kildare still faded badly Cribbin and Moolick were going well but were bunched with 25 minutes to go.

There is no semi decent Ulster team in division 2 this year so judging Galway will be crystal ball stuff imo I think they'll both struggle to be honest and might go straight back down, staying up would be great for either. Or else one of the top 6 will need a very poor campaign, like Donegal a few years ago .

I never thought Roscommon would handle Mayo in full flight and I'm even less confident that Galway would .

RSF translated this into Roscommon being fat. Either way there is a cut to the top 6 that neither Kildare or Galway have at the moment, but they have a good amount of time .

MaroonAndGreen · 10-04-2017 01:53PM

MfMan wrote:

We do be keeping an eye on things here too you know, watching what ye're up to!

You'll see Mayo are fairly grounded I think, probably a little too pessimistic IMO. Just beat Kerry, Donegal and Tyrone in the past couple of months. Basically had the two O'Sheas, Cafferkey, Keane, Barry Moran, Barrett out for most of the league. Not to mention Keegan starting late due to Westport club commitments, and a clearly not 100% fit Diarmuid O'Connor.

Players like Durcan and Coen had good leagues and that's important, they need to become very good players for us. I think people's perception of Mayo's league campaign has been swayed massively by the poor performance versus Dublin.

All things considered, it was a great league. There was also the issue of bouncing back after severe criticism in the Winter after Connelly and Holmes deciding to sell out to Martin Breheny in the Irish Independent "for the good of Mayo football".

There is a lot more positives than negatives to be taken from our league campaign. But it nice to see a bit of caution all the same.

Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

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