BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

bk · 03-04-2017 12:03AM

end of the road wrote: »

it is essential to those who rely on it. it isn't easily replacible, but replacible after an unknown period of most likely no service for many areas.

The service is essential, BE are not. Any company can operate the service.

That company, could even be Dublin Bus, doesn't have to be private companies.

bk · 03-04-2017 12:12AM

devnull wrote: »

The whole Expressway Fleet is owned by Bus Eireann, there is infrastructure and buildings that are owned by Bus Eireann, PSO vehicles pre-2012 are owed by Bus Eireann, there will be maintenance equipment that could be sold, they have quite a lot of assets like any transport company would have.

While I agree with almost everything else you say, I think you maybe mistaken on this.

Definitely on property, all "BE" property, offices, bus stations and depots are actually owned by the CIE property group.

While I'm not certain of this next part, from what I can tell of CIE's annual report, it also looks like all of the "BE" buses and coaches (ones not owned by the NTA), are also owned by the CIE property group and not BE.

It looks like CIE's property group own and manage all assets including vehicles of BE/DB/IR, from what I can tell.

But this is actually good news. That means if BE does go into liquidation, most of the assets will remain under government control and the government can instruct the CIE property group to lease the buses and depots, etc. to whatever companies end up replacing BE.

BTW interestingly this could well be Dublin Bus on at least some routes. This could be a great opportunity for DB to expand and they certainly have the experience. I suspect DB would be very interested in the BE Dublin region commuter routes and maybe even the regional city bus services.

Fred Swanson · 03-04-2017 12:19AM

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end of the road · 03-04-2017 12:26AM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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a good cleanup and it will be fine. it's a central location for busses and should remain so in my view

jimmycrackcorm · 03-04-2017 02:33AM

IE 222 wrote:

Ask the people outside of Dublin who heavily relies on BE. Where not just talking about your average student here who only sees the price of a trip. If there is no political risk then why are the parties starting come public and even some offering support to BE. Shane Ross and a few others will be refined to the history books in next general election if all these jobs.

Ulster bank are closing branches. I read in my local paper that people came out and held a protest march.

So I'm wondering why there are no public protest marches in favour of the BE workers and protecting the services.

Except I'm not wondering because unlike issues such as water, nobody supports this. Everyone knows BE has to change.

IE 222 wrote:

I agree the unions haven't been great but the blame can't lie with just the unions and staff. The company itself is wasteful and management wages alone could offer big savings.

I don't think management wages will save the company and aren't management included in the redundancy proposal? But unions are to blame because they flat out refuse to recognize that cuts and job losses are a normal thing for companies.

Keeping the status quo is not a realistic option.

BuilderPlumber · 03-04-2017 06:50AM

bk wrote: »

The service is essential, BE are not. Any company can operate the service.

That company, could even be Dublin Bus, doesn't have to be private companies.

BE have shown no respect for their customers. After nearly 2 weeks of non-service, not once did the drivers come together and say that this needs to be stopped as it inconveniences customers. They along with all other parties in BE including its management and NBRU simply do not care and if so, then why should we care what happens to BE itself. The bottom line is customers pay for Quangos like NBRU to operate and pay BE management too. NBRU offer a very poor service and their extremist poorly thought out actions cause more harm than good. BE management is really BE mismanagement and have squandered resources as they saw fit over the years. They should show a little bit of respect and appreciation to the public who have handed them their fine jobs.

The service is important and private companies, Dublin Bus or a new CIE bus company could all easily replace the failed entity BE has become. Just for comparison, I found DB and the trains to be superior to BE.

L1011 · 03-04-2017 07:33AM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Rented off either the OPW or DSP. Not CIE owned

Gael23 · 03-04-2017 08:05AM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Was there a plan to demolish and rebuild it? Now maybe just demolish and sell the site which is worth as much as the building itself.

L1011 · 03-04-2017 08:07AM

Gael23 wrote: »

Was there a plan to demolish and rebuild it? Now maybe just demolish and sell the site which is worth as much as the building itself.

The offices are still in use by the DSP. It was built as an office block first and foremost. It may also be a protected structure now.

fxotoole · 03-04-2017 08:33AM

RTE reporting this morning that both sides may sit down in the WRC to try to come to a resolution

L1011 · 03-04-2017 08:58AM

L1011 wrote: »

The offices are still in use by the DSP. It was built as an office block first and foremost. It may also be a protected structure now.

It is

"7852 Store Street, Dublin 1 Busárus: central bus station and offices"

http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/Planning/DublinCityDevelopmentPlan/RPS%20December%202016.pdf

Brendan Bendar · 03-04-2017 09:02AM

fxotoole wrote: »

RTE reporting this morning that both sides may sit down in the WRC to try to come to a resolution

Yes, but given the public stance of the Unions and the precarious situation in BE can't really see much room for manoeuvre?

bk · 03-04-2017 09:23AM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Actually owned by the Department of Social Protection, their offices are upstairs in the building.

CIE rent the lower flowers from the DSP.

I would assume if BE went bust, that the NTA would take over the lease with the DSP.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Ulster bank are closing branches. I read in my local paper that people came out and held a protest march.

So I'm wondering why there are no public protest marches in favour of the BE workers and protecting the services.

Because the rhetoric of BE romantically serving rural Ireland out of the goodness of it's heart is just that, rhetoric. Obviously I can't speak for the whole country, but I can tell you what most Corkonians think of BE and I suspect the same is true for the rest of the country.

They see BE as just another distant Dublin quango, who are mostly focused on just cherry picking the busiest commuter routes around the Dublin region.

They see BE management having little interest or knowledge about what happens outside of Dublin and they see that the drivers in Cork are pretty much a law onto themselves and go do pretty much whatever they want (see the GoBE incidents).

Generally the services BE over in Cork and the rest of the country are pretty terrible. Aircoach coming to Cork was a real eye opener for the people of Cork. It was literally the best thing to happen to public transport in Cork in the last 30 years! and people in Cork finally saw what a high quality public transport looked like. And many started asking the question, why couldn't we have the same on city bus services and other BE routes around Cork?

I suspect people all over Ireland feel the same way, I suspect they would rather see local, family owned bus companies operating routes in their communities, as they would likely have a better understanding of their needs and be more responsive to the local community (see the local private companies operating in West Donegal). A decentralisation of public transport in rural Ireland to local communities could lead to much improved public transport for the people of rural Ireland.

That is why you see no protests in support of BE. The people of rural Ireland now the truth about the BE services operating in their communities and wouldn't mind seeing a change.

Strong Life in Dublin · 03-04-2017 09:26AM

end of the road wrote: »

a good cleanup and it will be fine. it's a central location for busses and should remain so in my view

have you ever used the toilets in there? They are the grimiest and worst smelling toilets I've ever used

devnull · 03-04-2017 09:43AM

Dark and dingy as hell as well, I once had two interviews for jobs within a few hours of each other and had reason to use the toilets and they were awful.

lawred2 · 03-04-2017 09:46AM

Bus Aras should be sold and demolished and a new inter city station built outside the M50. People should be carried into the city by DB or Luas.

Only a handful of BE buses should travel into the city centre.

TimeToShine · 03-04-2017 09:51AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Bus Aras should be sold and demolished and a new inter city station built outside the M50. People should be carried into the city by DB or Luas.

Only a handful of BE buses should travel into the city centre.

And practically double the commute time for anyone coming from outside of Dublin? You also grossly overestimate DB and the Luas.

lawred2 · 03-04-2017 10:01AM

TimeToShine wrote: »

And practically double the commute time for anyone coming from outside of Dublin? You also grossly overestimate DB and the Luas.

not really - this could be part of a wider restructuring that would involve Xpress DB services running into town.

TooObvious · 03-04-2017 10:05AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Bus Aras should be sold and demolished and a new inter city station built outside the M50. People should be carried into the city by DB or Luas.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - Bus Aras is a listed building so it's going nowhere!

lawred2 · 03-04-2017 10:14AM

TooObvious wrote: »

lawred2 wrote: »

Bus Aras should be sold and demolished and a new inter city station built outside the M50. People should be carried into the city by DB or Luas.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - Bus Aras is a listed building so it's going nowhere!

yeah no doubt a political stroke to preserve land in the city centre

Bummer1234 · 03-04-2017 10:18AM

lawred2 wrote: »

a new inter city station built outside the M50. People should be carried into the city by DB or Luas.

As mad ideas go..Thats up there! :pac:

quadrifoglio verde · 03-04-2017 10:25AM

lawred2 wrote: »

yeah no doubt a political stroke to preserve land in the city centre

No it is not.
It is one of the first buildings built in post war Europe in the International Modern style.
Knocking it down would be akin to bulldozing Henrietta Street

lawred2 · 03-04-2017 10:32AM

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

No it is not.
It is one of the first buildings built in post war Europe in the International Modern style.
Knocking it down would be akin to bulldozing Henrietta Street

Was it the last?

A lot of things are architect designed. Doesn't always mean that it's worth protecting. Bus Aras is a run down kip.

L1011 · 03-04-2017 10:33AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Was it the last?

A lot of things are architect designed. Doesn't always mean that it's worth protecting. Bus Aras is a run down kip.

The bus terminal floors are run down. The building itself is not.

Its extremely likely that the bus terminal could be replaced in the building; but the building is going nowhere.

quadrifoglio verde · 03-04-2017 10:46AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Was it the last?

A lot of things are architect designed. Doesn't always mean that it's worth protecting. Bus Aras is a run down kip.

Christ no, there was plenty others after it. A lot in the United states.
Bus Aras is a run down kip because it has allowed become a run down kip.

Just like Henrietta St is a run down kip.

The Parish Priest. · 03-04-2017 11:18AM

Am I missing something here ? What could fresh talks at the Labour relations court possibly achieve ? Surely cutbacks at the company will have to be worse now anyway after 10 days and counting of no income ?

Fred Swanson · 03-04-2017 11:32AM

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bk · 03-04-2017 11:37AM

I believe Bus Aras is operating WAY beyond capacity (and that isn't even including all the private operators) and is simply unsuited as a bus terminal.

If Metro North was built, then Dublin Airport could become a transfer station for North bound services. It pretty much already is, everything going North already stops there.

However a better idea would be a new, modern, large, shared (with all operators) transport hub somewhere in the City with enough space to handle all companies, plus future growth.

Perhaps in the area behind Connolly Station (car park) or behind Hueston Station. Also there was a place along the quays that was previously proposed. Can't remember exactly where now (no I don't mean Temple Bar either).

L1011 · 03-04-2017 11:48AM

bk wrote: »

Perhaps in the area behind Connolly Station (car park)

Going to be built on as early as late this year; hotels/apartments/offices/retail. All various out buildings bar the few listed red bricks are being moved to Heuston, so that's that one out too...

setoot · 03-04-2017 11:59AM

Rumours dong the rounds.

RTE are to sell some land for 75 million , this money will be used to secure the future of RTE.

High up people are now proposing/wondering why not something similar for DB/BE.

Sell DB donnybrook, it is in the same location , similar size as the RTE land.
This was preposed 10+ years ago, with the idea to build a new depot in cherrywood, this idea is now back on the table, only cherrywood location has changed.

BE Broadstone is a huge size for potential development land in dublin city, help with the lack of housing, got to be worth millions, a sale would result in enough money to build a new depot (outside M50) and put BE on the road to recovery.

Someone is blocking these proposals, and has been for several years. Why?

BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

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