BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

Fred Swanson · 02-04-2017 01:05PM

This post has been deleted.

eeguy · 02-04-2017 01:15PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If BE is found to be insolvent then employees may be treated in a manner similar to the Clery's workers.

They're at the bottom of the pile when it comes to paying creditors.

Gael23 · 02-04-2017 01:16PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The dole office is that way. Don't pass go and do not collect €200.

Semi State workers pay a different class of PRSI and aren't entitled to the dole AFAIK.

JCX BXC · 02-04-2017 01:20PM

Ah but the government love paying the creditors.

end of the road · 02-04-2017 01:52PM

murphaph wrote: »

I suspect a new semi state would be quickly established to take care of the PSO routes. The BE drivers would be offered jobs in this company. Expressway routes would not return. Private operators would take up the expressway slack.

The NTA would then begin aggressively tendering out the PSO routes.

they are currently tendering 10% of db and be routes and have been since i think 2013, with no awards yet to the best of my knowledge. if they are going to begin aggressively tendering then on the basis of the current situation at least, in my personal view not only would there be the potential for things to get missed, but it could be a very long time for many without service.

murphaph wrote: »

And the hardliners will be well known in the industry. They will be unemployable regardless.

they will be employable. the hardliners aren't known and are unlikely to be unless they come out of their own accord and state they are a hard liner.

trellheim wrote: »

I think you are not assuming how pragmatic this can be

1) examinership -> can this be a going concern ?

Accountant to Judge -> Union won't wear any changes or take a payrise

Boom. NTA repossess their assets, firesale of buses, NTA advertise PSO routes , one or many operators win or are paid to operate PSO , and we are up and running

if we go on the NTA's tendering of 10% of routes then it won't be anything as simple and we won't be up and running any time soon i fear should the worst come to the worst.

Deleted User wrote: »

I see on the news today that the People Before Profit party came out in support of the wildcat strike by BE. I hope they knock on my door next election time!
Also see on twitter that Rubber Bandits supporting the wildcat strike. Whatever about supporting BE strikers at their place of work, no one should be supporting illegal picketing.
I think the government should step in and liquidate this non viable company. It's only non viable because of its management and employees.

the government can't step in. nothing to do with them. the company is viable.

Stheno · 02-04-2017 01:53PM

Gael23 wrote: »

Semi State workers pay a different class of PRSI and aren't entitled to the dole AFAIK.

That's incorrect you might be thinking of older civil servants?

Hilly Bill · 02-04-2017 02:21PM

JTMan wrote: »

The Sunday Business Post reports that examinership plans for BE are now at an "advanced stage".

I'd say that was the plan all along, the strikers have played into their hand. I wouldn't be surprised that senior management at BE have other jobs earmarked for them when it happens.

ricimaki · 02-04-2017 02:44PM

Iarnód Éireann and Dublin Bus will be sending a bill to the NBRU for the costs of Fridays action. I hope it costs the NBRU a lot. What happened on Friday was disgraceful.

Stephen15 · 02-04-2017 02:48PM

There should an unmarked garda car placed at every Dublin Bus depot tommorrow and every day this week from 4am onwards to make no Bus Eireann show up at the wrong depot

CIARAN_BOYLE · 02-04-2017 02:49PM

Does the nbru publish their own accounts? Does anyone know what reserves the nbru have to continue paying strike pay to their members? Or will they be able to cover the costs imposed by them on Dublin Bus and Iaranrod Eireann

end of the road · 02-04-2017 02:58PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

There should an unmarked garda car placed at every Dublin Bus depot tommorrow and every day this week from 4am onwards to make no Bus Eireann show up at the wrong depot

where are these unmarked cars coming from? which areas of the country are losing their garda presence? the resources aren't there.

pilly · 02-04-2017 02:59PM

end of the road wrote:

the government can't step in. nothing to do with them. the company is viable.

Jesus Christ, you can't have it both ways! The government can't step in but Shane Ross should, which is it?

The company is not viable if examinership is being discussed.

If that happens the drivers will be told accept what's on offer or take a running jump. New rules altogether.

It's probably what BE want.

pilly · 02-04-2017 03:01PM

Gael23 wrote:

What does that mean for the unions?

Will have no effect on the unions. They'll carry on as usual on their nice salaries.

That's what makes me sick about these situations. Surely drivers must be suffering now if they're only getting strike pay?

They'll suffer more if the company goes into examinership. Do the union care? No.

end of the road · 02-04-2017 03:07PM

pilly wrote: »

Jesus Christ, you can't have it both ways! The government can't step in but Shane Ross should, which is it?

ask the poster who stated the government should step in

pilly wrote: »

Will have no effect on the unions. They'll carry on as usual on their nice salaries.

That's what makes me sick about these situations. Surely drivers must be suffering now if they're only getting strike pay?

They'll suffer more if the company goes into examinership. Do the union care? No.

the unions care very much about their members. if they didn't then the members would find a union that would.

Jamie2k9 · 02-04-2017 03:18PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I'd say that was the plan all along, the strikers have played into their hand. I wouldn't be surprised that senior management at BE have other jobs earmarked for them when it happens.

Not at all BE just want to cut cots and a lot of what they are proposing is fair as it was never part of their contract of employment. Suspect it will be a straight liquidation if it comes to it, examinership is just prolonging a sinking ship. Examinership only happens if there is a reasonable chance of survival and requires a judge to rule and given current situation how could they possibly favor it.

There is no way unions expecting it to last 10 days and counting which is a big gamble considering a minority Goverment is under little pressure to get involved.

If DB and IE ballots come back as rejection action it will be highly embarrassing for them, unfortunately I don't see it happening.

Gael23 · 02-04-2017 03:19PM

end of the road wrote: »

ask the poster who stated the government should step in

the unions care very much about their members. if they didn't then the members would find a union that would.

If they care why are they putting 2600 jobs on the line?

Brendan Bendar · 02-04-2017 03:21PM

end of the road wrote: »

ask the poster who stated the government should step in

the unions care very much about their members. if they didn't then the members would find a union that would.

Would have to disagree there.

When this is over the unions will lick their wounds and move on to another 'wrong'.

The genuine worker will be left in the fallout.Those are the ones I have sympathy for.

O'Leary and Noone won't suffer, just move on to the next attempt to screw the taxpayer.

Unless some of the top heads in there question why they took this one on.

Stephen15 · 02-04-2017 03:28PM

end of the road wrote: »

where are these unmarked cars coming from? which areas of the country are losing their garda presence? the resources aren't there.

And where do all the guards come from when there's a game on in Croker or Lansdowne Road

end of the road · 02-04-2017 04:08PM

Gael23 wrote: »

If they care why are they putting 2600 jobs on the line?

the union isn't putting any job on the line. it was the staff who voted for the strike action, the union is just representing them. the staff vote decides what happens as the staff are the union. the union heads just sanction something on the basis of the wishes of the members.

Stephen15 wrote: »

And where do all the guards come from when there's a game on in Croker or Lansdowne Road

it takes a lot less gards to manage a game then to manage your suggestion.

Hilly Bill · 02-04-2017 04:10PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

There should an unmarked garda car placed at every Dublin Bus depot tommorrow and every day this week from 4am onwards to make no Bus Eireann show up at the wrong depot

There is one at the back of Connolly station every day :-).

jackofalltrades · 02-04-2017 04:28PM

end of the road wrote: »

they will be employable. the hardliners aren't known and are unlikely to be unless they come out of their own accord and state they are a hard liner.

You don't have to look further than the photos and video footage of the wild cat strikes.
That and in the event of the company being liquidated, your going to have managers, HR staff and drivers that didn't support the strike out of work as well.
They know who the hard liners and would be looking for work.

IE 222 · 02-04-2017 04:31PM

This seems pro privatisation regardless the costs evolved and a step in other the unknown.

The NTA in my opinion isn't in a position to control the national bus transport network as most of it has been well established since their beginning. With a possible collapse of BE the cost to the state in lost earnings, taxes and 2600 and I'm sure a further 500 or so indirect jobs ending up on welfare is going to be massive burden on everything else especially public transport and the NTA.

Rural communities will be forgotten and it could be years before services resume in parts of the country. Ifor this was an election year this would be long since resolved.

I can't see the suggestion of bringing drivers from outside Ireland in been very popular with many and would be political suicide imo. The idea of BE drivers loosing their jobs and going to work for PO within a few weeks is fantasy stuff. Someone mentioned Clearys that mess was only resolved a couple of weeks ago and likely cost the owners a large sum as well as the state at the the beginning of that. That was a private company can imagine the uproar of something similar happening with a semi state.

devnull · 02-04-2017 04:32PM

According to what I just read, CIE believe they have some proof the NBRU were involved in the wildcat strikes:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/wrc-to-invite-bus-%C3%A9ireann-sides-to-talks-on-condition-of-no-wildcat-strikes-1.3033916

“It is clear that having regard to the manner in which this activity was co-ordinated, and having regard to the change in picketing activity, that this unlawful activity was organised by your union, its officials and members,” the letter said.

The letter from the CIE group solicitor said his clients had “collected considerable evidence of the role of your union, its officials and members in this activity and we will if necessary bring the entirety of that material to the attention of the Court”.

pilly · 02-04-2017 04:35PM

devnull wrote:

According to what I just read, CIE believe they have some proof the NBRU were involved in the wildcat strikes:

Hopefully they have.

devnull · 02-04-2017 04:38PM

IE 222 wrote: »

The NTA in my opinion isn't in a position to control the national bus transport network as most of it has been well established since their beginning. With a possible collapse of BE the cost to the state in lost earnings, taxes and 2600 and I'm sure a further 500 or so indirect jobs ending up on welfare is going to be massive burden on everything else especially public transport and the NTA.

The NTA's core discharge is to regulate and promote public transport within the state and represent the need of both the taxpayer and the traveling public and do so in a way which is without fear from any one company or it's staff or it's vested interests and without favour to any one group of people, I agree with them and also believe that the interests of the many must become of the interests of a few.

I believe that providing good public transport services is the most important thing. Ultimately who provides the service doesn't bother me in the slightest. Many of the improvements that Bus Eireann have made over recent years have only been made because they have had no choice but to because the NTA have allowed private enterprise to provide services BE said were not viable or not as frequent, starting so early or running so late, We should always reward people who offer innovative new services.

If a private proposes and starts operating an innovative new service that Bus Eireann say is not viable, as has happened on a number of occasions, why should we stop them? Public transport is supposed to be for the public not specified to the best interests of any other groups. No Monopoly is good no matter if it is a private company or a public company and the NTA has a track record of delivering public transport growth.

Indeed according to some, the NTA should should simply tell passengers who avail of services operated by private operators who put licenses in to operate later, faster, and more frequent services that Bus Eireann they must be canceled because Bus Eireann don't like it, since the interests of Bus Eireann are far more important than someone who wants to travel to the airport, on holiday or to work or see their family.

It is proven that since the NTA took office the spread of public transport services being offered to the public, the operating hours of such service and the demand for such services has greatly increased, in many cases, very significantly. For example, between 2012 and 2015, total bus passenger numbers on the Cork Dublin Corridor increased by 61 per cent, while on the Limerick Dublin Corridor, they increased by 50 per cent.

end of the road · 02-04-2017 04:40PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

You don't have to look further than the photos and video footage of the wild cat strikes.
That and in the event of the company being liquidated, your going to have managers, HR staff and drivers that didn't support the strike out of work as well.
They know who the hard liners and would be looking for work.

i disagree that they would know the hardliners.

IE 222 wrote: »

This seems pro privatisation regardless the costs evolved and a step in other the unknown.

The NTA in my opinion isn't in a position to control the national bus transport network as most of it has been well established since their beginning. With a possible collapse of BE the cost to the state in lost earnings, taxes and 2600 and I'm sure a further 500 or so indirect jobs ending up on welfare is going to be massive burden on everything else especially public transport and the NTA.

Rural communities will be forgotten and it could be years before services resume in parts of the country. Ifor this was an election year this would be long since resolved.

I can't see the suggestion of bringing drivers from outside Ireland in been very popular with many and would be political suicide imo. The idea of BE drivers loosing their jobs and going to work for PO within a few weeks is fantasy stuff. Someone mentioned Clearys that mess was only resolved a couple of weeks ago and likely cost the owners a large sum as well as the state at the the beginning of that. That was a private company can imagine the uproar of something similar happening with a semi state.

that would be my view as well. very worrying times ahead unfortunately.

devnull wrote: »

According to what I just read, CIE believe they have some proof the NBRU were involved in the wildcat strikes:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/wrc-to-invite-bus-%C3%A9ireann-sides-to-talks-on-condition-of-no-wildcat-strikes-1.3033916

i would be surprised if they actually do. the union have denied it, and been clear they don't condone the actions. if there was actual evidence otherwise then i reccan it would have been picked up by the media by now. i guess time will tell.

L1011 · 02-04-2017 04:40PM

end of the road wrote: »

it takes a lot less gards to manage a game then to manage your suggestion.

You get more AGS at a Rovers/Bohs game than you'd need for one per depot.

Brendan Bendar · 02-04-2017 04:41PM

end of the road wrote: »

the union isn't putting any job on the line. it was the staff who voted for the strike action, the union is just representing them. the staff vote decides what happens as the staff are the union. the union heads just sanction something on the basis of the wishes of the members.

That's a total misrepresentation of how Unions work.

If anyone thinks the Unions just 'rubber stamp' disputes of this kind, well

They dont know the picture.

devnull · 02-04-2017 04:41PM

end of the road wrote: »

i would be surprised if they actually do. the union have denied it, and been clear they don't condone the actions. if there was actual evidence otherwise then i reccan it would have been picked up by the media by now. i guess time will tell.

Do you have any idea how legal action works?

Before a case you don't tell the media what is going on, legal action is done through a trial or a day out in court, it's not done as trial by media.

end of the road · 02-04-2017 04:47PM

devnull wrote: »

The NTA's core discharge is to regulate and promote public transport within the state and represent the need of both the taxpayer and the traveling public and do so in a way which is without fear from any one company or it's staff or it's vested interests and without favour to any one group of people, I agree with them and also believe that the interests of the many must become of the interests of a few.

I believe that providing good public transport services is the most important thing. Ultimately who provides the service doesn't bother me in the slightest. Many of the improvements that Bus Eireann have made over recent years have only been made because they have had no choice but to because the NTA have allowed private enterprise to provide services BE said were not viable or not as frequent, starting so early or running so late, We should always reward people who offer innovative new services.

If a private proposes and starts operating an innovative new service that Bus Eireann say is not viable, as has happened on a number of occasions, why should we stop them? Public transport is supposed to be for the public not specified to the best interests of any other groups. No Monopoly is good no matter if it is a private company or a public company and the NTA has a track record of delivering public transport growth.

Indeed according to some, the NTA should should simply tell passengers who avail of services operated by private operators who put licenses in to operate later, faster, and more frequent services that Bus Eireann they must be canceled because Bus Eireann don't like it, since the interests of Bus Eireann are far more important than someone who wants to travel to the airport, on holiday or to work or see their family.

It is proven that since the NTA took office the spread of public transport services being offered to the public, the operating hours of such service and the demand for such services has greatly increased, in many cases, very significantly. For example, between 2012 and 2015, total bus passenger numbers on the Cork Dublin Corridor increased by 61 per cent, while on the Limerick Dublin Corridor, they increased by 50 per cent.

increases in services happened before the NTA existed, i remember late busses offered by bus eireann among others and rail lines got extra services. have the NTA any plans to improve rail services because it certainly doesn't look like it apart from the 10 minute dart which while nice, isn't really needed and will make the rest of connolly's rail services suffer because of lax infrastructure to support the lot. like i said before had bus eireann put on all those nonstop services and they had been proven right that there was no demand the nashing of teeth on here and other places would have been insufferable. yes they got it wrong but they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. however 2 operators per route is rather little. there should be a be presence on all non-stop and other commercial routes in the country.

devnull wrote: »

Do you have any idea how legal action works?

Before a case you don't tell the media what is going on, legal action is done through a trial or a day out in court, it's not done as trial by media.

if there was evidence that the union knew the action was going to happen or even planned it i reccan the media would have picked it up by now. that is what i stated. do you believe actual evidence exists to prove the union knew? and if so, how come only CIE are the ones to have it?

BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

Comments