BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

nosilver · 31-03-2017 09:47AM

magentis wrote: »

So the staff should just roll over and take massive pay cuts for the passengers???This is a unionised work force standing together.

I wouldnt blame tesco workers if other mandate memebers joined them either.

Great to see solidarity like this.

ah, people who believe everything a union says without questioning it.

Basic pay won;t be affected, yes, overtime will be affected, but the three biggest issues that the unions simply will not discuss are

1. The massive number of "spare" drivers sitting on their arses everyday and getting paid.

2. The massive level of sick leave that is over 5 times that in the private bus sector.

3. Routes that simply are totally uneconomical.

But unions never want to discuss real issues, they think the taxpayer shoudl pay for thoer members to sit on their arses doing nothign and enjoying almost 4 weeks of "sick" pay every year.

I really hope BE goes into examinership / liquidation.

murphaph · 31-03-2017 09:48AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's all bollocks, we need to ditch this book balancing crapology. We're also in desperate need of financial systems such as public banking etc

I'll tell you what. When the rest of the world adopts your system we can too. Until then, we operate in a global financial market that does involve an element of book balancing, even for sovereign states, or no sucker will lend the state money.

devnull · 31-03-2017 09:54AM

magentis wrote: »

So a massive subvention cut will have no effect on operating cost?Do the NTA pay for maintaining said vehicles along with fuel?

Do you think that spending €50m a year on new vehicles will have no effect on reducing operating costs? This is before you even take into account the money BE make selling the old vehicles off that they replace.

Newer vehicles are more reliable and use less fuel than the old ones and in Europe, normally these vehicles are bought directly by companies and worked into PSO.

Which one of the following has more subsidy.

Operator A: 40m cash + 50m vehicles
Operator B: 50m cash

You appear to believe it's operator B.

Bass Reeves · 31-03-2017 09:54AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's all bollocks, we need to ditch this book balancing crapology. We're also in desperate need of financial systems such as public banking etc

Would you care to share you economic theory's so with us. What level of deficit is sustainable in your opinion. Where should it be spend. We have a public banking system in the form of Credit Unions and An Post but neither are capable of commercial lending. Not a banking fan. But banking is incapable of being run by governments

Eoin247 · 31-03-2017 09:54AM

murphaph wrote: »

I'm sick to death of hearing about how bad public transport is in the UK since privatisation. .

I've always been hearing the opposite, that public transport is far better in the UK.

Hilly Bill · 31-03-2017 09:55AM

blackwhite wrote: »

Imagine someone working in the real world telling their boss "I can't work today because there's people from another company standing outside".

I've lost any sympathy with the bus eireann workers at this stage as the bully boy tactics are not welcome. I'd never cross a legal picket but if it's an illegal one then they can go and. F themselves.

devnull · 31-03-2017 09:56AM

Yourself isit wrote: »

I've given an example of the very first result I got when I googled first group buses. The meeting is from yesterday.

If it were up to the British they would nationalise rail and public transport.

In this dispute I think the workers need to take the overtime reductions.

It's the "privatise them all" brigade that I have a problem with.

How is it that in Glasgow there can be over 900 buses and well over 95% of those routes be run commercially and companies still buy their own buses every year and pay commercial rates for insurance, yet in Dublin, every single route is deemed as being nonviable and the company needs state insurance and free buses?

Monthly and yearly tickets are much more heavily discounted in the UK than they are in the UK, in Glasgow you can get a month ticket for £44, 10 week ticket for £94.00 within the city or if within the whole region you can get a month ticket for £57 and a 10 week ticket for £130. These are considerably cheaper.

How can an operator who pays to run a fully commercial network and all of it's own buses also have lower fares? Is it because that they have a proper control on costs?

Wanderer78 · 31-03-2017 09:56AM

murphaph wrote:

I'll tell you what. When the rest of the world adopts your system we can too. Until then, we operate in a global financial market that does involve an element of book balancing, even for sovereign states, or no sucker will lend the state money.

Sadly I feel this is exactly what will happen, possibly for a very long time. I suspect we'll have to endure a few more serious economic and financial crisis before anything truly changes, and we start to realise, our current systems and models are wrecked. Please also be aware, these alternative systems and models are not my work, but I do agree with those that advocate for them

Heisenberg1 · 31-03-2017 09:57AM

Nekarsulm wrote: »

The UK's growth of a near monopoly, in the form of StageCoach actually swallowed up private operators , and isn't replicable here.

The local private operator, Sillan Tours, runs from Cavan (cootehill) to Dublin for 10 euro each way. BE is 16 euro.
Irish rail, from Longford to Dublin (No rail link to Cavan at all) is 26 euro each way.
Can you spot the difference?

Can you spot the difference? You can't compare rail and road they operate far different rail costs a lot more due to the infrastructure it runs on which cost money to be paid by that company.

pilly · 31-03-2017 10:03AM

kingshankly wrote: »

As a train driver I am totally against what be drivers are doing here
We were supposed to be balloted next week I can't see this latest stunt gaining them much support
They are ****ting themselves as their current strike looks to be going nowhere and they need trains involved as it's not as if a private operator can come in and take over
Not in until this evening myself should be an interesting day ahead
And a shocking day for commuters with such uncertainty as to what services are actually running .
I would imagine what ever support be drivers had from the public has now disappeared

Can I just say to you as a train driver, thank you for speaking out. I'd imagine that there's a lot of train drivers and Dublin Bus drivers pissed off this morning because they'll lose a days pay over this.

I'd also imagine there's a lot of BE drivers who are worried now because their mortgage may not be paid this month. You can be sure the union is not going to pay that for them.

poppers · 31-03-2017 10:03AM

poppers wrote: »

when LUAS and dublin bus were on strike the union bosses were on every radio station going, this strike seems to be going on in the background and hardly a mention of it.
could it be cause it doesn't really effect dublin and is more confined to rural ire, or is it that the public are getting on fine with out BE and that private operators are picking up the slack.

So it seems that the media didnt cover it because it didnt effect dublin.

Wanderer78 · 31-03-2017 10:03AM

Bass Reeves wrote:

Would you care to share you economic theory's so with us. What level of deficit is sustainable in your opinion. Where should it be spend. We have a public banking system in the form of Credit Unions and An Post but neither are capable of commercial lending. Not a banking fan. But banking is incapable of being run by governments

Again, these alternative systems and models are not my work. Unfortunately I have little or no knowledge on our credit union and post office 'banking' systems but I suspect they are different to the public banking systems in which I'm in favour of mainly the German sparkasse and the bank of north Dakota. I suspect these are different models and systems to our own institutions.

Eoin247 · 31-03-2017 10:07AM

Looks like some pickets being lifted:

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/847735822941962240

Mebuntu · 31-03-2017 10:07AM

I've always been hearing the opposite, that public transport is far better in the UK.

It is way better. I've had reason to use public bus transport in most of the major cities in the UK over the past two years and the service is excellent with low fares and even free services in the likes of Manchester. Outside the cities the local community bus services proved to be reliable and punctual. All operated and co-ordinated to suit the travelling public rather than the staff. The friendliness and helpfulness of the staff was a standout.

Riskymove · 31-03-2017 10:07AM

poppers wrote: »

So it seems that the media didnt cover it because it didnt effect dublin.

The BE troubles, dispute and subsequent strike has been on news, in papers and on social media for the last month or more

I think we should all be honest and admit that that rather than the media, it is us the people in Dublin who didn't care about it that much until today...which is the point of this morning's illegal action

Riskymove · 31-03-2017 10:08AM

Mebuntu wrote: »

It is way better. .

wasn't there a long term strike on southern trains recently

there have also been strikes on tube and buses over recent times

nowhere is perfect

L1011 · 31-03-2017 10:09AM

Pickets lifted and drivers from other group companies clearly not in support on here... that much vaunted "Solidarity" doesn't seem to be very, well, solid.

ThisRegard · 31-03-2017 10:11AM

L1011 wrote: »

Pickets lifted and drivers from other group companies clearly not in support on here... that much vaunted "Solidarity" doesn't seem to be very, well, solid.

Especially considering the guys in Cork said they'll be outside Kent Station all day. They didn't even get to brunch.

Atlantic Dawn · 31-03-2017 10:11AM

This picketing will have lost any public support from non BÉ users that may have been there, idiots. I hope BÉ is completely shut down and bankrupt in the next 10 days, sell off the buses to private operators who might actually use them as intended.

devnull · 31-03-2017 10:12AM

Riskymove wrote: »

wasn't there a long term strike on southern trains recently

there have also been strikes on tube and buses over recent times

nowhere is perfect

Strikes are less impacting in the UK because when the TUBE goes on strike there are alternatives and because one company doesn't have lions share of control of a mode.

Hilly Bill · 31-03-2017 10:12AM

pilly wrote: »

Can I just say to you as a train driver, thank you for speaking out. I'd imagine that there's a lot of train drivers and Dublin Bus drivers pissed off this morning because they'll lose a days pay over this.

I'd also imagine there's a lot of BE drivers who are worried now because their mortgage may not be paid this month. You can be sure the union is not going to pay that for them.

If anyone refuses to cross an illegal picket by a different company then it's their own fault for not getting paid.

trellheim · 31-03-2017 10:14AM

Why have Gardai not being called on this ?

Is it a civil matter ( wonder if the union would like being injuncted )

MayoSalmon · 31-03-2017 10:15AM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

This picketing will have lost any public support from non BÉ users that may have been there, idiots. I hope BÉ is completely shut down and bankrupt in the next 10 days, sell off the buses to private operators who might actually use them as intended.

This

Andy Magic · 31-03-2017 10:15AM

trellheim wrote: »

Why have Gardai not being called on this ?

Is it a civil matter ( wonder if the union would like being injuncted )

They are too busy catching drivers in the bus lane.. There was an army of them on the Malahide road this morning.

Riskymove · 31-03-2017 10:18AM

trellheim wrote: »

Why have Gardai not being called on this ?

Is it a civil matter ( wonder if the union would like being injuncted )

what exactly can Guards do?

The BE workers are walking up and down on a public footpath

The other workers won't pass, but they are free to do so...

Atlantic Dawn · 31-03-2017 10:22AM

What they are doing is like staff striking at Bank Of Ireland deciding to picket AIB because they realise there are other banks people can do business with.

Nekarsulm · 31-03-2017 10:26AM

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

Can you spot the difference? You can't compare rail and road they operate far different rail costs a lot more due to the infrastructure it runs on which cost money to be paid by that company.

I can certainly spot the difference in my pocket.

Take the rail option out of the equation then, 16 Euro BE versus 10 Euro Private operator.

MOH · 31-03-2017 10:31AM

sjb25 wrote: »

NBRU Dermot o Leary says he has no idea what's going on and no members of nbru should be picketing IR or BE and members should leave them picket

So either he's lying and does know what's going on, or the union doesn't actually represent the picketers. Either way, there's clearly no point indulging the NBRU any more

magentis wrote: »

So the staff should just roll over and take massive pay cuts for the passengers???This is a unionised work force standing together.

I wouldnt blame tesco workers if other mandate memebers joined them either.

Great to see solidarity like this.

That's fair enough. As long as you accept that all the travelling public who can't get to work today because of the picketing should stand together and call for the replacement of BE with a customer focused transport company.

animaal · 31-03-2017 10:35AM

trellheim wrote: »

Why have Gardai not being called on this ?

Is it a civil matter ( wonder if the union would like being injuncted )

I believe it is a civil matter.

Assuming these strikes are not compliant with dispute resolution procedures (a fairly safe bet!), then the employer is entitled to seek damages from the persons responsible.

The union has disavowed any part in the strikes. If I were Shane Ross, I'd go after the picketing individuals for damages. They've chosen to throw away immunity under the rules of lawful picketing, so that's what the law allows for.

fxotoole · 31-03-2017 10:35AM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What they are doing is like staff striking at Bank Of Ireland deciding to picket AIB because they realise there are other banks people can do business with.

Not only that, but the staff whom decide to strike outside AIB are not supported by the Union because they've gone rogue. On top of all that, they gave zero notice to the public, so people who want to do some banking have no other options and are extremely pissed off.*

*I know this is not the case in Ireland today because you have multiple banks as well as online banking, but I was just extrapolating the analogy that Atlantic Dawn posted to fit the transport situation today

BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

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