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BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

1…3738404243…125

Comments

  • #1172
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    I'm sure SIPTU know well what was going to happen
    https://twitter.com/SIPTUunionmade/status/847684483394322434

    Even if it was planned, do you really expect the union to say it was, it would leave them open to all kinds of things.


  • #1173
    Neon_Lights
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Neon_Lights


    Solidarity with colleagues and not the fellow Citizens of our country.

    How dare the transport drivers of the country deprive people of essential transport, out of greed and unwillingness to change.

    I hope Bus Eireann gets wound down now, so we can start afresh


  • #1174
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,783 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    magentis wrote: »
    Not at all.Its called solidarity.DB and IE staff are well aware of this failing governments agenda,and are aware that if they stand by and let this happen they are next.

    Solidarity in the face of no support and no chance of getting what you want results in the unemployment queue and little else - just look at Waterford.

    I can't see DB staff voting to go back on strike pay again so quickly for solidarity and nothing else.

    Actually - excluding Len McCluskey's pledge to sub the unions, how much does the NBRU have left?


  • #1175
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    magentis wrote: »
    Ah yes,the glorious private operators,the answer to all ills.
    The taxpayer done really well out of Telecom Eireann and Aer Lingus privatisation.

    Those private operators done a great service to the UK travelling public in the past 30 years.

    The private bus operators provide a better service every day of the week


    There are private operators all over Europe , not just the UK


    Transport for London is a great model of private operators in a regulated environment

    Railways in the UK ,m are now carrying more passengers then anytime in rail history and UK rail is now reaching capacity

    whats doesnt work


  • #1176
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    magentis wrote: »
    Ah yes,the glorious private operators,the answer to all ills.
    The taxpayer done really well out of Telecom Eireann and Aer Lingus privatisation.

    Those private operators done a great service to the UK travelling public in the past 30 years.

    Yeh, from the Aberdeen journal just yesterday.

    Around 250 people turned out to a public meeting to discuss the future of an Aberdeen bus service.

    From tomorrow, the X40 service will cease as First Bus scraps the route.


    Residents attended the meeting at Kingswells Community Centre to air their views on the situation.

    Last month the city council agreed to safeguard the service through an interim replacement, the X94.

    Aberdeen City Council’s transport spokesman, Councillor Ross Grant, was on hand to answer questions from frustrated commuters.

    He said: “It’s obvious there are a number of serious issues with where public transport is going and it was evident tonight that the community would support looking into more council-run services.”

    So the council has to step in anyway if first just unilaterally decides to stop a bus service.


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  • #1177
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    magentis wrote: »
    Indeed!!

    Is that not why we pay taxes?

    For state services?

    Like the health service,prsi?

    Roads without tolls?

    Waste collection?

    Oh wait.......

    We also should get value for money but we are not currently getting that due to outdated working practices, the same people who want increased tax to go towards these things are the same people who protest and don't want to pay tax.


  • #1178
    magentis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭magentis


    devnull wrote: »
    They certainly don't look out for the public that they are meant to be serving, because apparently the ideas of a public run transport service is vested interests don't get in the way....oh hold on!

    The actions of the government,by cutting subvention from €50 million to €35 million is the reason these workers are on strike today.

    Not the publics fault not the staffs fault.

    The blame for this is firmly at the door of the failing government.


  • #1179
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    CrowdedHouse wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/Oireachtas_RX/status/847191554074791936

    Last year BE got €100m almost in taxpayer sponsored investment and subsidy...


  • #1180
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,559 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Race to the bottom of the dole queue when the company goes bust. How can people not understand that a company, any company, needs to make adjustments to remain functional. Are people really that tunnel visioned to think public money, our money, should be used to support such basket cases?

    Unfortunately there are,and the transport industry is the last bastion of this kind of thinking.

    As a poster previously said, this action this morning will remove the last vestige of public support, not that there was much, from this group.

    The Unions would have expected Minister Ross to have caved in by now.

    Looks like that is not going to happen anytime soon.


  • #1181
    thomasj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭thomasj


    A few buses in the blackhall place area that seem to come from the phibsboro garage area just now.

    One or two gone towards blanch


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  • #1182
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,783 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    magentis wrote: »
    The actions of the government,by cutting subvention from €50 million to €35 million is the reason these workers are on strike today.

    Quoting headline subvention figures when vehicles are now provided by the NTA is inaccurate and bordering on deceptive.

    Subvention covers the PSO services - which are not losing money. Subvention (and NTA vehicles) cannot be used on commercial services.


  • #1183
    magentis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭magentis


    devnull wrote: »
    We also should get value for money but we are not currently getting that due to outdated working practices, the same people who want increased tax to go towards these things are the same people who protest and don't want to pay tax.

    If you cut funding by 30% to any company its going to have difficulties.


  • #1184
    BuffyBot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,924 ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    Folks, we haven't suddenly waived the rules and posting standards in light of this morning.

    They still apply, so keep it civil. By all means disagree with a post, but drop the stupid generalisations, personal attacks and inflammatory language


  • #1185
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    devnull wrote: »
    Last year BE got €100m almost in taxpayer sponsored investment and subsidy...

    If most of that is PSO private operators will get the same.


  • #1186
    magentis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭magentis


    L1011 wrote: »
    Quoting headline subvention figures when vehicles are now provided by the NTA is inaccurate and bordering on deceptive.

    Subvention covers the PSO services - which are not losing money. Subvention (and NTA vehicles) cannot be used on commercial services.

    So a massive subvention cut will have no effect on operating cost?Do the NTA pay for maintaining said vehicles along with fuel?


  • #1187
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,783 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    magentis wrote: »
    So a massive subvention cut will have no effect on operating cost?Do the NTA pay for maintaining said vehicles along with fuel?

    Have the PSO services started losing money then?


  • #1188
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,293 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    magentis wrote: »
    Ah yes,the glorious private operators,the answer to all ills.
    The taxpayer done really well out of Telecom Eireann and Aer Lingus privatisation.

    Those private operators done a great service to the UK travelling public in the past 30 years.

    The UK's growth of a near monopoly, in the form of StageCoach actually swallowed up private operators , and isn't replicable here.

    The local private operator, Sillan Tours, runs from Cavan (cootehill) to Dublin for 10 euro each way. BE is 16 euro.
    Irish rail, from Longford to Dublin (No rail link to Cavan at all) is 26 euro each way.
    Can you spot the difference?


  • #1189
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    magentis wrote: »
    Ah yes,the glorious private operators,the answer to all ills.
    The taxpayer done really well out of Telecom Eireann and Aer Lingus privatisation.

    Don't be confusing people losing money on shares with those companies being privatised. Look at how they're doing now as private companies, still operating without the crutch of state aid.


  • #1190
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    Yeh, from the Aberdeen journal just yesterday.

    Around 250 people turned out to a public meeting to discuss the future of an Aberdeen bus service.

    From tomorrow, the X40 service will cease as First Bus scraps the route.


    Residents attended the meeting at Kingswells Community Centre to air their views on the situation.

    Last month the city council agreed to safeguard the service through an interim replacement, the X94.

    Aberdeen City Council’s transport spokesman, Councillor Ross Grant, was on hand to answer questions from frustrated commuters.

    He said: “It’s obvious there are a number of serious issues with where public transport is going and it was evident tonight that the community would support looking into more council-run services.”

    So the council has to step in anyway if first just unilaterally decides to stop a bus service.

    Indeed, whilst virtually the whole of Aberdeen runs with cheaper fares than Dublin for monthly tickets, with the companies funding their own buses, without 90% of the bus routes in the city being run fully by the operators, and you come up with one route that has gone to the council because operator does not think it is viable.

    The irony? In Ireland not a city in the whole country can make a single city route viable or even give the chances to run such a route, because no matter how busy the route, DB/BE claim that every single route is unviable and the taxpayer should have to pay for every singloe one.


  • #1191
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,736 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Our governments have been lead to believe that balancing the books is a good thing, this is complete nonsense, and in the words of Steve keen, it's bollocks! Our politicians have been indoctrinated by fundamentally flawed economic theories for decades and they're lost. This is causing irreversible damage to our societies, they seriously need to ditch econ 101!

    This is vodoo economics. We be back to 2009 when nobody would lend us money. Believe it or not you have to borrow budget deficits if noone lends you money or only lends it at exorbinent rates you have to shut down services, increase taxes etc.
    magentis wrote: »
    So the staff should just roll over and take massive pay cuts for the passengers???This is a unionised work force standing together.

    I wouldnt blame tesco workers if other mandate memebers joined them either.

    Great to see solidarity like this.

    This is not solidarity, if it was solidarity they have waited for the vote next week. Maybe they are afraid that the vote will not be in support of them

    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Shane Ross on Radio 1 calling for talks but saying he won't be intervening with the cheque book.

    Fair play Minister

    That is right totally correct by him. It would be illegal for him under EU law to provide support to a commercial company which is in competition with other commercial companies.
    magentis wrote: »
    They have been doing that anyway.

    Take a look at Irish rail.

    So understaffed that the company itself admitted line safety is compromised as a result.

    No staff on the trains bar the driver.

    No staff in the stations,allowing them to decend into no go area centres for anti social behaviour and vandalism.

    IE is alread subvented at a higher rate/passenger than any other service. If it cannot survive then it need to be closed down or else a compeditor allowed to put a service on the lines.
    BoatMad wrote: »
    Why would you have staff on a train these days . staff are not responsible for policing anti social behaviour

    Even if they were the turn and run at first sign of trouble. Have been there before.
    magentis wrote: »
    He is the main stakeholder,he should have been involved weeks ago.

    He didnt even read vital reports into the financial state of the company.

    In PLC's sharehols do not get involved in day to day running of companies. There is a CEO and bord of managment to do that.


    TBH this action is a good sign. It shows that strikers have zero public support. It also shows that they are afraid that the game is up. The truth is it is. They will not be able to sustain secondary picketing for long because if an injunction is served unions willfunds will be in the firing line. The level of proof for these cases is not ''beyond reasonable doubt'' but rather "a preponderance of the evidence" and judges only need to be convinced by your argument vis a V the defendants defence.

    While what's Apps etc are not tracable to the level of texts there history is recorded on phones. It is unlikly that no texts were send as it is unlikly that the majority drivers are on what app.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • #1192
    thomasj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Told by a driver buses are back now.


  • #1193
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    magentis wrote: »
    The actions of the government,by cutting subvention from €50 million to €35 million is the reason these workers are on strike today.

    The direct subsidy is €40m, not €35m.

    They also got €50m of buses last year, which is unique in Europe because in most countries operators have to fund their own vehicles, in Ireland that is not the case, BE also had to fund their own vehicles pre 2008.

    Therefore it's nearer €100m.
    Not the publics fault not the staffs fault.

    The staff refuse to comply with modern working practices such as fuel saving equipment, how is that the goverments fault? The staff refuse to comply with modern working rotas as well and first user checks and many other things, the company is full of fat and it's not just in the driving grade but in the admin grade and also due to bad commercial management.


  • #1194
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    If most of that is PSO private operators will get the same.

    Private operators have lower costs and less staff per bus so I doubt that very much, some operators will be able to operate some routes without PSO given the chance.


  • #1195
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    devnull wrote: »
    Indeed, whilst virtually the whole of Aberdeen runs with cheaper fares than Dublin for monthly tickets, with the companies funding their own buses, without 90% of the bus routes in the city being run fully by the operators, and you come up with one route that has gone to the council because operator does not think it is viable.

    The irony? In Ireland not a city in the whole country can make a single city route viable or even give the chances to run such a route, because no matter how busy the route, DB/BE claim that every single route is unviable and the taxpayer should have to pay for every singloe one.

    I've given an example of the very first result I got when I googled first group buses. The meeting is from yesterday.

    If it were up to the British they would nationalise rail and public transport.

    In this dispute I think the workers need to take the overtime reductions.

    It's the "privatise them all" brigade that I have a problem with.


  • #1196
    blackwhite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,653 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Irrelevant.. unless the BE staff are blocking trains/buses then they just get on with it. This nonsense of "can't pass the picket" is not an acceptable reason.

    If they ARE blocking vehicles then the Gardai should be called to remove them. They had no problem shoving IW protesters out of the way after all.

    Imagine someone working in the real world telling their boss "I can't work today because there's people from another company standing outside".


  • #1197
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,562 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Bass Reeves wrote:
    This is vodoo economics. We be back to 2009 when nobody would lend us money. Believe it or not you have to borrow budget deficits if noone lends you money or only lends it at exorbinent rates you have to shut down services, increase taxes etc.


    It's all bollocks, we need to ditch this book balancing crapology. We're also in desperate need of financial systems such as public banking etc


  • #1198
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    devnull wrote: »
    Private operators have lower costs and less staff per bus so I doubt that very much, some operators will be able to operate some routes without PSO given the chance.

    How can you have fewer staff than one person? And as always what's not considered is profit. If a private operator has a monopoly they will try maximise profit.


  • #1199
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,046 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    Bass Reeves wrote:
    IE is alread subvented at a higher rate/passenger than any other service. If it cannot survive then it need to be closed down or else a compeditor allowed to put a service on the lines.

    To be fair to IE their situation is different than Bus Eireanns. For them its a case of Victorian railway lines versus 21st century motorways. Outside commuter services in the major cities I doubt anyone could run it anywhere near breakeven due to infrastructural limitations. There's a far larger question in that is the public prepared to fund the projects required to make large parts of the network viable.

    Bus Eireann historically has been run badly due to bad management and union resistance to change. Its Ryanair versus aer lingus all over again


  • #1200
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,783 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    How can you have fewer staff than one person? And as always what's not considered is profit. If a private operator has a monopoly they will try maximise profit.

    "staff per bus" does not refer to staff *on* a bus.


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  • #1201
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,049 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Yep. The game is up now. They will soon all be out on their ear and it's really difficult to have any sympathy for them. They have been molly-coddled so long that they actually believe they are hard done by. Their new jobs in the private sector will be an eye opener for them all.

    Ross needs to hold absolutely firm in this debacle. BE needs to go now, as a first step in dismantling CIE as a whole.

    I'm sick to death of hearing about how bad public transport is in the UK since privatisation. It's not the model I would follow (well except for the TfL model) but even having said that, they have far better coverage and lower fares (perhaps excluding rail, which is pretty niche in Ireland) than us.

    I would take the "awful" UK experience over the current CIE shambles any day.


This discussion has been closed.
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