BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

end of the road · 30-03-2017 08:09PM

ixoy wrote: »

Can union members ask for a new vote? I can't fathom how an increasing number of them aren't thinking, "Lads this is a bit crap isn't it? Reckon I don't want to lose my job".

maybe they don't want another vote. maybe they support the strike. people have a choice on the ballot paper.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think you be surprised how little of an impact it has. While people in the Pale that commute into Dublin are effected to an extent the rest of the country is getting on with it. Also Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford bus services are poor anyway. Bigger factory;s located in the suburbs have arranged buses for staff( some had buses running all the time as BE service is poor anyway. Because of this you state is incorrect if have facts can you verify them

the strike is having an effect on a good number of areas across the country. to downplay the effect is wrong in my view.
the odd factory having it's own bus service only benefits those workers but not anyone else unless those services are open to the public which is unlikely.

sunbeam · 30-03-2017 08:21PM

My experience of the achill to castlebar route was that its used by teenagers and the oaps trying to get off the island for the day. Going to the big town, Potter around the shops for the day and get the bus back that evening. However, plenty of neighbours would have been doing that route anyway, or would be more than happy to drop you there if it was for something serious like a hospital visit.
You'd want to be some prick if you're off for the day and unwilling to bring a relative or close friend/good neighbour to the county town for a hospital appointment

I missed an appointment in the hospital today because that bus is not running. Most of my neighbours are elderly and/or carers or simply not going that route and I cannot ask them to spend 3-4 hours taking me to hospital appointments. I cannot afford an 80 mile plus round trip in a taxi.

My only option is to try to rearrange my appointments for the three hour window on the one day per week that the rural bus goes to Castlebar. To their enormous credit, the healthcare professional in question has offered to try their best to accommodate me if it comes to this, but as they hold clinics elsewhere on that day it will probably not be a viable long-term solution. Obviously, it is extremely unlikely that all patients from Achill would be able to arrange their appointments for that time slot.

At this point I really don't care who provides our PSO service as long as it is back up and running.

murphaph · 30-03-2017 08:28PM

sunbeam wrote: »

I missed an appointment in the hospital today because that bus is not running. Most of my neighbours are elderly and/or carers or simply not going that route and I cannot ask them to spend 3-4 hours taking me to hospital appointments. I cannot afford an 80 mile plus round trip in a taxi.

My only option is to try to rearrange my appointments for the three hour window on the one day per week that the rural bus goes to Castlebar. To their enormous credit, the healthcare professional in question has offered to try their best to accommodate me if it comes to this, but as they hold clinics elsewhere on that day it will probably not be a viable long-term solution. Obviously, it is extremely unlikely that all patients from Achill would be able to arrange their appointments for that time slot.

At this point I really don't care who provides our PSO service as long as it is back up and running.

That's crap. Hopefully for you BE will soon be a thing of the past and they won't be able to hold you to ransom like this any more.

If your bus was a tendered out PSO route (ie not just handed to BE with free buses) then there wouldn't be any of this carry on...just take a look at the privates keeping the show on the road where possible right now.

Bass Reeves · 30-03-2017 08:30PM

monument wrote: »

What are you trying to say here exactly?

Are you really trying to claim that users of Expressway, local rural routes, and (non-Dublin) city services are not effected? That's not what many people are saying in radio voxpops and interviews etc.

Most Expressway routes are unaffected as other commercial operators have taken up the slack buy adding extra capacity. Even the Cork Dublin route where GoBe was bullied off the route have Aircoach and an IE service so intercity routes are unaffected. As I said that commuter routes that are PSO around Dublin are effected.

City bus routes ran by BE are not as critical as in Dublin for a nu get of reasons. Firstly the area's covered are smaller and most of these urban buses ovly cover 3 mile hops. If you look outside supermarket's in these cities shoppers always used to get Taxis to get home. The bus services that did exist from towns villages outside these cities was sparse anyway and most workers relied on lifts to work anyway or had there own cars. If distances are greater than 30-40km rural bus service is useless to workers or students as you spend hours hanging around waiting for a bus to get home and still be maybe 3-4 km from home or arrive for work either an hour too early or halfan hour too late.

Colm McCarthy was on the radio Tuesday evening making all these points. He was explaining how uncritical BE was in the scheme of things. If this strike goes on much longer the NRA should accept an applicationss for licences for any PSO routes. This would stop the messing that u ions are going on. I expect that up to 50% of BE PSO routes are commercially viable if ran with right sized vehicles and with fit for purpose timetables.

Brendan Bendar · 30-03-2017 08:31PM

end of the road wrote: »

maybe they don't want another vote. maybe they support the strike. people have a choice on the ballot paper.

the strike is having an effect on a good number of areas across the country. to downplay the effect is wrong in my view.
the odd factory having it's own bus service only benefits those workers but not anyone else unless those services are open to the public which is unlikely.

Would not agree with your view.

Noone will try to to bring in DB and IE into this as soon as he can.

There is minuscule public support for this, only the hardliners and those who thirst for conflict.

These will move on to a new campaign and leave the workers in BE in ruins.

Luckily we have a minister who will see through the agenda here.

Taxpayer must not be gouged by this lot.

Yourself isit · 30-03-2017 08:32PM

murphaph wrote: »

That's crap. Hopefully for you BE will soon be a thing of the past and they won't be able to hold you to ransom like this any more.

If your bus was a tendered out PSO route (ie not just handed to BE with free buses) then there wouldn't be any of this carry on...just take a look at the privates keeping the show on the road where possible right now.

Nothing to stop private buses going on strike of course. See the Luas.

bk · 30-03-2017 08:43PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

Nothing to stop private buses going on strike of course. See the Luas.

Sure of course not.

But on commercial routes you typically have two operators. So if one goes on strike, then you can always take the other companies service. You are currently seeing this on all the intercity routes where people are just switching from BE to the private operators on the same or similar route.

I suspect hat many of the busiest PSO routes like the 109 really shouldn't be PSO routes at all and instead should be commercial routes with two competing operators on them. That would greatly lesson the possibilty and impact of srikes.

On PSO routes there would only be one operator, so yes it would be a bigger issue. However if you have multiple companies operating all over the country, then a strike at one company would have much less overall impact then with a national company like BE.

Under such a scenario, going out on strike becomes more risky and instead employees and employers try and deal with things internally.

devnull · 30-03-2017 08:49PM

I just heard from a friend in Cork that Amazon are contracting Cronin's to run shuttle buses.

Bass Reeves · 30-03-2017 08:50PM

bk wrote: »

Yourself isit wrote: »

Nothing to stop private buses going on strike of course. See the Luas.

Sure of course not.

But on commercial routes you typically have two operators. So if one goes on strike, then you can always take the other companies service. You are currently seeing this on all the intercity routes where people are just switching from BE to the private operators on the same or similar route.

I suspect hat many of the busiest PSO routes like the 109 really shouldn't be PSO routes at all and instead should be commercial routes with two competing operators on them. That would greatly lesson the possibilty and impact of srikes.

On PSO routes there would only be one operator, so yes it would be a bigger issue. However if you have multiple companies operating all over the country, then a strike at one company would have much less overall impact then with a national company like BE.

Under such a scenario, going out on strike becomes more risky and instead employees and employers try and deal with things internally.

This is the reason why the Expressway service is virtually unsaveable. They now have lost market share. Joe Public has discovered other services if he did not know they existed. Even if the strikers return to work and deliver the cost savings requested by BE management they will have to attract back bus travellers. This means generally by reducing fares which may again require cost savings.

n97 mini · 30-03-2017 08:50PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

Nothing to stop private buses going on strike of course. See the Luas.

Private operators are much more sensitive to disruption of cash flow, knowing that the minister will definitely not bail them out. When is the last time there was a strike at a privately owned bus company.

Bass Reeves · 30-03-2017 08:55PM

devnull wrote: »

I just heard from a friend in Cork that Amazon are contracting Cronin's to run shuttle buses.

Dell did this in Limerick years ago IIRC for shift workers as there was not enough of a service by BE and they required an all night service. I think WANG did it before that. I remember working in a Limerick city center years ago and a lad ran a private bus from the far side of Ennis, went to work and carried them home in the evening.

Last Stop · 30-03-2017 09:02PM

Would Bus Eireann and more specifically Expressway be commercially viable if they got full price for everyone using the free travel pass?
1.2 million free travel passes is beyond a joke to be honest.
If expressway is a commercial entity (the reason the government can't step in and fill the funding gap), then they should act like MOST private bus companies and refuse to accept free travel passes on Expressway services. If someone wants to get from A-B, they can use an indirect Bus Eireann service or pay for the pleasure of travelling direct

Yourself isit · 30-03-2017 09:04PM

bk wrote: »

Sure of course not.

But on commercial routes you typically have two operators. So if one goes on strike, then you can always take the other companies service. You are currently seeing this on all the intercity routes where people are just switching from BE to the private operators on the same or similar route.

I suspect hat many of the busiest PSO routes like the 109 really shouldn't be PSO routes at all and instead should be commercial routes with two competing operators on them. That would greatly lesson the possibilty and impact of srikes.

On PSO routes there would only be one operator, so yes it would be a bigger issue. However if you have multiple companies operating all over the country, then a strike at one company would have much less overall impact then with a national company like BE.

Under such a scenario, going out on strike becomes more risky and instead employees and employers try and deal with things internally.

Eh? There are two operators on those routes because one is BE.

And who is to say there won't be some large operator (like first) owning numerous routes. And if unionised they tool could cause a national strike.

devnull · 30-03-2017 09:06PM

Last Stop wrote: »

If expressway is a commercial entity (the reason the government can't step in and fill the funding gap), then they should act like MOST private bus companies and refuse to accept free travel passes on Expressway services. If someone wants to get from A-B, they can use an indirect Bus Eireann service or pay for the pleasure of travelling direct

Private companies do not refuse to accept free travel passes on their services, any service that started after 2011 or so cannot join the scheme because there is not enough funding available to allow them to do so. It is done on a service by service basis which is why that some operators accept the pass on some service but not others - essentially the services they do were licensed before the scheme was closed to new routes, and the services that do not were licensed after it was closed.

The way Bus Eireann get paid is a little different, they are paid a certain amount per travel pass that is issued, regardless if that passenger uses the travel pass or not. The positives are they could get payments for 1.2m customers even if only a small fraction of them actually use BE services but on the flip-side it's not on a trip by trip basis.

devnull · 30-03-2017 09:08PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

Eh? There are two operators on those routes because one is BE

BE is not on all routes, they barely have a presence on Interurban Express routes for instance but I agree on Interurban Multi Stop they normally have a presence, but two operators doesn't necessarily mean one of them is BE.

And who is to say there won't be some large operator (like first) owning numerous routes. And if unionised they tool could cause a national strike.

Hardly a national strike, if the routes are divided up between many companies then a strike is less effective as it causes less disruption.

bk · 30-03-2017 09:13PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Dell did this in Limerick years ago IIRC for shift workers as there was not enough of a service by BE and they required an all night service. I think WANG did it before that. I remember working in a Limerick city center years ago and a lad ran a private bus from the far side of Ennis, went to work and carried them home in the evening.

This is something people forget, there are 3 times as many private buses and coaches registered in Ireland then public ones (DB + BE combined).

These private companies run all sorts of services all over the country, from the biggest, fanciest coaches on intercity services, to little mini buses in West Donegal where even BE won't operate with all their subsidies and every type of service in between that you can imagine.

It is private buses that bring our kids to school. Private buses that shuttle us to the airport from the car parks. Private buses operating around business parks all around the country, bringing staff to local public transport. Private buses operating to big companies for night shift. Private buses bring our kids on school trips. Private buses bring tourists on tours around our cities.

Hell even many BE services are actually been operated by private contractors who are contracted in to cover for them!

Companies like Dublin Coach, GoBus, JJKavangh, Mathews, Callinans, Swords Express, etc. are all Irish companies that grew out of these private contracted services that have been a vital part of Irish transport infrastructure for decades.

end of the road · 30-03-2017 09:15PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Most Expressway routes are unaffected as other commercial operators have taken up the slack buy adding extra capacity. Even the Cork Dublin route where GoBe was bullied off the route have Aircoach and an IE service so intercity routes are unaffected. As I said that commuter routes that are PSO around Dublin are effected.

and the expressway services which run into towns which may not have an alternative operator or a rail service. + city services outside dublin and other rural services.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

City bus routes ran by BE are not as critical as in Dublin for a nu get of reasons.

they are to those who use them and rely on them.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Firstly the area's covered are smaller and most of these urban buses ovly cover 3 mile hops.

a lot of them cover a hell of a lot more.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If you look outside supermarket's in these cities shoppers always used to get Taxis to get home. The bus services that did exist from towns villages outside these cities was sparse anyway and most workers relied on lifts to work anyway or had there own cars. If distances are greater than 30-40km rural bus service is useless to workers or students as you spend hours hanging around waiting for a bus to get home and still be maybe 3-4 km from home or arrive for work either an hour too early or halfan hour too late.

not always so again your downplaying of the effects of the strike are more wishful thinking then actual reality.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Colm McCarthy was on the radio Tuesday evening making all these points. He was explaining how uncritical BE was in the scheme of things.

and how the hell would he know. in fact, why is anyone asking his opinion. he should stick to being an economist rather then giving his wrong opinion on public transport.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If this strike goes on much longer the NRA should accept an applicationss for licences for any PSO routes. This would stop the messing that u ions are going on.

be are under contract to operate the routes and simply excepting other applications for licences on routes all ready contracted to an operator isn't going to happen. also unions exist in private transport companies.

Bass Reeves · 30-03-2017 09:17PM

Last Stop wrote: »

Would Bus Eireann and more specifically Expressway be commercially viable if they got full price for everyone using the free travel pass?
1.2 million free travel passes is beyond a joke to be honest.
If expressway is a commercial entity (the reason the government can't step in and fill the funding gap), then they should act like MOST private bus companies and refuse to accept free travel passes on Expressway services. If someone wants to get from A-B, they can use an indirect Bus Eireann service or pay for the pleasure of travelling direct

I be of the opinion that they would not be viable. While the number of TP is quite high people in rural Ireland do not use them as much as people presume. If any sort of a top up charge was put on them there use in rural Ireland would disappear. Most people may only use them 2-3 times a year. If people!E are traveling any distances intercity they use the train. In reality it is a back door subsidy to mostly to the ex CIE company's.

AFAIK it is not that other bus companies do not accept them but that after I think 2009 no new operators were allowed to take part in the scheme. So it a red herring. As well in any business volume is discounted. It would be interesting to see what would happen if the TP was put to tender by the Dept of SW and operators on commercial routes could bid for the tender. I expect that they be paying 10-20% less for it on these routes.

end of the road · 30-03-2017 09:21PM

murphaph wrote: »

That's crap. Hopefully for you BE will soon be a thing of the past and they won't be able to hold you to ransom like this any more.

If your bus was a tendered out PSO route (ie not just handed to BE with free buses) then there wouldn't be any of this carry on...just take a look at the privates keeping the show on the road where possible right now.

strikes happen in private companies as well. so, be not existing or routes being tendered aren't a guarantee against strikes.

bk wrote: »

Sure of course not.

But on commercial routes you typically have two operators. So if one goes on strike, then you can always take the other companies service. You are currently seeing this on all the intercity routes where people are just switching from BE to the private operators on the same or similar route.

I suspect hat many of the busiest PSO routes like the 109 really shouldn't be PSO routes at all and instead should be commercial routes with two competing operators on them. That would greatly lesson the possibilty and impact of srikes.

On PSO routes there would only be one operator, so yes it would be a bigger issue. However if you have multiple companies operating all over the country, then a strike at one company would have much less overall impact then with a national company like BE.

Under such a scenario, going out on strike becomes more risky and instead employees and employers try and deal with things internally.

a dispute can happen in multiple companies as well, so multiple companies operating across the country isn't a guarantee against anything.

n97 mini wrote: »

Private operators are much more sensitive to disruption of cash flow, knowing that the minister will definitely not bail them out. When is the last time there was a strike at a privately owned bus company.

plenty in london over the years where transport companies are all privately run. lots more around the world i'm sure.

devnull · 30-03-2017 09:23PM

end of the road wrote: »

a dispute can happen in multiple companies as well, so multiple companies operating across the country isn't a guarantee against anything.

Far less likely though.

plenty in london over the years where transport companies are all privately run. lots more around the world i'm sure.

All Transport Companies are all privately run? So you think the underground is? It certainly isn't and is the mode in London that has had the biggest issue with strikes.

GM228 · 30-03-2017 09:24PM

devnull wrote: »

Private companies do not refuse to accept free travel passes on their services, any service that started after 2011 or so cannot join the scheme because there is not enough funding available to allow them to do so. It is done on a service by service basis which is why that some operators accept the pass on some service but not others - essentially the services they do were licensed before the scheme was closed to new routes, and the services that do not were licensed after it was closed.

The way Bus Eireann get paid is a little different, they are paid a certain amount per travel pass that is issued, regardless if that passenger uses the travel pass or not. The positives are they could get payments for 1.2m customers even if only a small fraction of them actually use BE services but on the flip-side it's not on a trip by trip basis.

CIE is paid €69.72 per travel pass issued per year. The CIE group gets €61m per year which is divided between BE, IE and DB as the CIE group dictates.

An extra €3m was made available for new private operators in Budget 2016 bringing their allocation to €8.5m.

And for completeness:-

€3.9m goes to Transdev, €1.5m to the Rural Transport Programme operators and €1.7m to Ulsterbus and another private operator based in Northern Ireland.

_Kaiser_ · 30-03-2017 09:30PM

end of the road wrote: »

not always so again your downplaying of the effects of the strike are more wishful thinking then actual reality.

Not one is saying there hasn't been an effect, but given that it's still ongoing and Richard Bruton was on the news this evening saying that Ross won't be getting involved, I think in fact it's yourself who's overplaying the supposed impact of this action.

We have an incredibly weak government that rules with the blessing of FF. If either of those groups were getting the backlash you'd expect (were it actually that disruptive) you can be sure that Ross would be TOLD to sort this out

and how the hell would he know. in fact, why is anyone asking his opinion. he should stick to being an economist rather then giving his wrong opinion on public transport.

His opinion would certainly appear to be more in line with the reality than union reps or vested interests who are trying desperately to force a "bailout" by Government... Something which (as above) they don't seem to be in any rush to do.

BeardyDevoy · 30-03-2017 09:31PM

end of the road wrote: »

and the expressway services which run into towns which may not have an alternative operator or a rail service. + city services outside dublin and other rural services.

and how the hell would he know. in fact, why is anyone asking his opinion. he should stick to being an economist rather then giving his wrong opinion on public transport.

.

I for one don't think that Colm McCarthys opinion is "wrong" . You have historically supported these overpaid Union protected non productive workers. I am afraid that it's the "end of the road" for Bus E, and the "end of the road " for SIPTU members holding the general public to ransom in order to protect their grossly inflated pay packets. P45 on the way for the lot of them. Well done minister Ross, don't buckle to the bullies.

Bass Reeves · 30-03-2017 09:44PM

end of the road wrote: »

and the expressway services which run into towns which may not have an alternative operator or a rail service. + city services outside dublin and other rural services.

In general people tend not to be travelling to intermediate stops except for social reasons and these can be put off, if it for shopping or collect the OAP you travel to the next town on a route provided by another operator. You also fail to understand that people may have travelled to access that bus anyway in there own car and may be only using it for convienve. Rural people are very resillent

end of the road wrote: »

they are to those who use them and rely on them.

see above

end of the road wrote: »

a lot of them cover a hell of a lot more.

I was speaking about the city services I dealt with the other services in detail again see above

end of the road wrote: »

not always so again your downplaying of the effects of the strike are more wishful thinking then actual reality.

Can you verify that

end of the road wrote: »

and how the hell would he know. in fact, why is anyone asking his opinion. he should stick to being an economist rather then giving his wrong opinion on public transport.

Maybe because
http://www.politics.ie/forum/political-reform/158734-multi-appointments-mr-colm-mccarthy.html

he is one of Ireland foremost economists. In general his analysis is often requested by various different media outlets. I supect that he have a better grasp than Noone or O'Leary

end of the road wrote: »

be are under contract to operate the routes and simply excepting other applications for licences on routes all ready contracted to an operator isn't going to happen. also unions exist in private transport companies.

First off I posted that the NTA should do it next can you verify it will not happen. And finally yes unions exist in private companies but less messing goes on like is happening in the state run(directly and indirectly) transport service

end of the road wrote: »

strikes happen in private companies as well. so, be not existing or routes being tendered aren't a guarantee against strikes.

If you look at the present the only places with out any service are generally PSO routes. If these were tendered ( and I now believe in 2019 some will be) you could only have localized dispute covering some counties there would be less chance od a dispute as both workers, unions and mangament would be afraid of longtem consquences of losing future tenders so you analysis is incorrect and you point immaterial

end of the road wrote: »

a dispute can happen in multiple companies as well, so multiple companies operating across the country isn't a guarantee against anything.

unlikely and less of a chance a 20-1 horse wins but he is twenty times less likly than an even odds horse so you are incorrect

end of the road wrote: »

plenty in london over the years where transport companies are all privately run. lots more around the world i'm sure.

Yes but less disruptive as they are not a monopoly providers so you point is immaterial

hmmm · 30-03-2017 09:51PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

This is the reason why the Expressway service is virtually unsaveable. They now have lost market share. Joe Public has discovered other services if he did not know they existed. Even if the strikers return to work and deliver the cost savings requested by BE management they will have to attract back bus travellers. This means generally by reducing fares which may again require cost savings.

That would be a worry now - BE has projected losses and what was required to address those losses. As a consequence of this strike, those projections will have to change - the losses will likely be even bigger. Striking, upsetting your customers and disrupting your employer is so stupid (yes, stupid) in this day and age when there is alternative operators on many routes.

Transdev showed their mettle by telling workers that the deal that was on offer would reduce as the strike went on. Bus Eireann management have not done this. Someone on the management side needs to step up and tell the strikers the unpalatable truth, they can't all hide behind the Ministers chequebook.

It's now time for the NTA to step up and say what they plan to do - if there are PSO routes that are not operating, they have a moral responsibility to get transport moving again - if BE won't provide it, they need to open it to private operators. See the post from sunbream above as to why they can't simply sit around waiting for the strike to get resolved.

devnull · 30-03-2017 09:59PM

The problem is though look at it from a private operators point of view? It would take a very brave person who got a license or authority to run a service to do so because the chance for damage from some thugs or hotheads from the union would certainly be there - look what happened with GoBe. I can imagine if privates got permission to do so things the union lads won't stand idly by and watch that happen without a reaction.

But I agree with what you are saying, the longer you defy authority because the company is losing money and it needs some correction, the more money is lost and the bigger correction is needed, it's like with FF and the bailout, had they took action before they were forced, the economy would have recovered quicker, but the whole time they spent denying the IMF were coming or were here, the situation got much worse and required more of a correction.

The longer it is before you take decisive action, the bigger that action must be, this is what the unions do not understand because of the fact that they have no idea how such companies work as they ahve been used to the protectionism of being working for a semi state company.

Stephen15 · 30-03-2017 10:00PM

end of the road wrote: »

plenty in london over the years where transport companies are all privately run. lots more around the world i'm sure.

There seems to be a higher proportion of union membershka in the private sector in the UK than in Ireland.When was the last time we saw Go Bus, Aircoach, Dublin Coach or Citylink go on strike. Oh and forgot to mention the mess that is Southern Rail.

Or maybe a better question is why is public transport sector so prone to strikes compared to most sectors. Is it because the public transport sector can hold a city or even a country to ransom.

jimmycrackcorm · 30-03-2017 10:02PM

If Ross ends up intervening then I'd suggest he instructs the NTA to buy the assets of BE, their bus stations, the buses that the NTA don't own. That'll fill the cash buffers for BE and push the can down the road.

Later on, when BE runs out of cash again, they'll become insolvent, have no assets and no redundancy funds. But the NTA will be able to put out routes to tender complete with buses and stations and we'll get the proper public service we need.

The good news for BE staff is that they can actually tender for it themselves also, perhaps the union should actually form a bus company, seeing as they are experts.

Yourself isit wrote: »

Nothing to stop private buses going on strike of course. See the Luas.

There's no comparison. Were it a private bus it would simply close down and be replaced by someone else. This isn't possible because the luas infrastructure is still there.

The outcome of the Luas dispute has still to be seen. Either Transdev were lying about profitability and the cost base, or they're banking on getting the contract renewed but at a higher price for TI who will then push up LUAS ticket prices to make up for it.

So expect higher ticket prices in the coming years, that is of course if you aren't a junkie where ticket inflation remains at zero.

end of the road · 30-03-2017 10:16PM

hmmm wrote: »

Transdev showed their mettle by telling workers that the deal that was on offer would reduce as the strike went on.

yet it didn't reduce. a couple of things removed and swapped with other things. deal remained effectively the same.

hmmm wrote: »

It's now time for the NTA to step up and say what they plan to do - if there are PSO routes that are not operating, they have a moral responsibility to get transport moving again - if BE won't provide it, they need to open it to private operators. See the post from sunbream above as to why they can't simply sit around waiting for the strike to get resolved.

it's not the job of the NTA to get involved in fueling the fire.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If Ross ends up intervening then I'd suggest he instructs the NTA to buy the assets of BE, their bus stations, the buses that the NTA don't own. That'll fill the cash buffers for BE and push the can down the road.

not his job. if bus eireann want to sell busses and buildings they will do of their own accord.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Later on, when BE runs out of cash again, they'll become insolvent, have no assets and no redundancy funds. But the NTA will be able to put out routes to tender complete with buses and stations and we'll get the proper public service we need.

tendering is the NTA'S problem and it's their job or the operator's job to provide facilities. not the job of BE to give up theirs unless they wish to do so.

Bass Reeves · 30-03-2017 10:25PM

devnull wrote: »

The problem is though look at it from a private operators point of view? It would take a very brave person who got a license or authority to run a service to do so because the chance for damage from some thugs or hotheads from the union would certainly be there - look what happened with GoBe. I can imagine if privates got permission to do so things the union lads won't stand idly by and watch that happen without a reaction.

But I agree with what you are saying, the longer you defy authority because the company is losing money and it needs some correction, the more money is lost and the bigger correction is needed, it's like with FF and the bailout, had they took action before they were forced, the economy would have recovered quicker, but the whole time they spent denying the IMF were coming or were here, the situation got much worse and required more of a correction.

The longer it is before you take decisive action, the bigger that action must be, this is what the unions do not understand because of the fact that they have no idea how such companies work as they ahve been used to the protectionism of being working for a semi state company.

While thuggery !Ight be an issue within the pale and in larger urban area's I think that people from rural area's would not put up with such thuggery if a small local family run business started forum such a service. I expect that if such services were started from rural settings even into Dublin they be very hard for unions to prevent especially if no subsidy was involved. Secondary picketing is illegal remember so a few arrests by gardai and injunctions and it be all over bar the weeping and nashing of teeth.

But the financial situation is getting worse Evey day for BE. It interesting g as well AFAIK BE has little in the way of fixed assets. In general it works out of Railway stations and DB facilities I do not think when CIE was split up it got partial ownership rights to these sites. I may be wrong not even incorrect and if I am I am sorry.

BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

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