BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

Jamie2k9 · 30-03-2017 12:21AM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I'd say it's what the minister wants so to reduce his budget.

He don't like CIE but him getting involved just sets the wrong precedent, by in large all CIE disputes over the last few years have been solved by WRC, Lab Court inviting parties back alone before both resume talks and it ends.

I will say I am surprised neither the union or company have been called back yet however I also knew this is more than just a strike from one of the unions so not sure they would go into talks that easily either.

BE hasn't had half the reform that IE/DB have had post 2008.

end of the road · 30-03-2017 12:25AM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

They could dismiss all the strikers in advance of shutting operations, if they didn't want to pay redundancy

courts would see through that stunt in a flash.

Graham · 30-03-2017 12:28AM

end of the road wrote: »

courts would see through that stunt in a flash.

On what basis? They're refusing to work, they're leaving themselves open to dismissal.

end of the road · 30-03-2017 12:44AM

Graham wrote: »

On what basis? They're refusing to work, they're leaving themselves open to dismissal.

on the basis the company would be trying to get around not paying redundantsy. and probably more. yeah, i'd say that stunt would be saw through rather quickly.

bk · 30-03-2017 12:52AM

JCX BXC wrote: »

Is it not the NTA who judge whether it's profitable or not, and assign the PSO based on that?

Well the problem is PSO routes have never really been put out to tender. It is more that BE has always received subsidies because they claim these routes need subsidies to be run, but with no real verification of the truth behind that claim and the NTA sort of inherited this setup when it was formed and has sort of been forced to just go along with it.

In the ideal world, with real transparency, then every route would be put out for open tender with no subsidy. If no suitable company * won the contract, then the route could be put back out for tender as a PSO route with x subsidy. Perhaps increasing the subsidy for each round of competition if no suitable company wins.

BTW I include BE in this, no reason why they and DB wouldn't be allowed to bid on these routes too.

In this way, only the routes that really needed a subsidy, would get it. There are many so called PSO routes, that I suspect could be operated quite easily and profitably by other companies. For instance large private companies have been strongly rumoured to have requested licenses for routes similar to some of BE's busiest routes, such as the 109 and offered to run those routes at no cost to the government but were turned down.

BTW the Donegal story is an interesting exemplar of this. These Donegal companies have been operating their for decades before BE was even formed. Then BE actually did try to muscle their way into the Donegal market, to put them out of business, like to had too so many other private companies over the years, with their highly subsidised buses and services. But in this case the private companies toughed it out and eventually BE retreated from the routes.

Strong local community support helped a lot. The people of Donegal didn't see BE as the champions of rural Ireland like they like to make out. Instead they say them for what they are, a very Dublin based and focused quango with little interest in the truly rural parts of Ireland.

I suspect many of Irelands rural communities would be much better served by such small local business's, even if PSO is required, then the highly inefficient BE.

horseburger · 30-03-2017 01:24AM

bk wrote: »

Sorry slightly off topic, but about the AC/DC thing. Interestingly the CEO of DC was the former CEO of AC. He also called the parent company of DC Last Bus, while the parent company of AC is First Coach.

AC - First Coach
DC - Last Bus

Interesting. Also might explain the current bus war going on in the Belfast route now.

Interesting that you mention that. Did you see the RTE 9pm news last Saturday?

The report by Paschal Sheehy showed a video clip of an Aircoach bus, a Dublin Coach bus, and a bus of another coach company parked on Patrick's Quay in Cork. It then showed another video clip of an Aircoach bus stopping to pick up passengers who were waiting. It then showed Paschal Sheehy doing a vox pop with a man on a bus going to Dungarvan from Cork, saying he took this bus because Bus Éireann was on strike and that he normally gets Bus Éireann and that the service he was getting was handy because it goes direct from Cork to Dungarvan.

The impression given in the report, by the way it showed an Aircoach bus stopping to pick up passengers, and then the vox pop with the passenger going from Cork to Dungarvan, was that Aircoach are running this service from Cork to Dungarvan.

As I understand it, it is Dublin Coach that is running that service.

I would imagine that Dublin Coach weren't too happy with whoever it was, that edited the video, that went with Paschal Sheehy's report.

On the issue of reporting, some on this forum have suggested that RTE are giving the NBRU and SIPTU favourable coverage.

I tend to think otherwise.

On the RTE news on Thursday, Ingrid Miley in her report, on Thursday 23rd March on the 9pm news, cited the NTA, stating that the NTA were "pointing out that there are alternatives and advising passengers to look at the NTA journey planner".

http://www.rte.ie/news/player/nine-news-web/2017/0325/

http://www.rte.ie/news/player/nine-news-web/2017/0323/

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/rte...3250/10704670/

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/rte...3250/10703650/

Why didn't she also stress that there are locations where there are no alternative bus services, for example on the 109 and 109A routes between Cavan and Dublin?

RTE have done a number of reports, in the last week, suggesting that people who use Bus Éireann, might switch to other services on a permanent basis. Ingrid Miley did a vox pop recently with passengers on the Collins Coach bus that covers Carrickmacross to Dublin, in a report suggesting that companies like Collins might take over a route like the Derry Dublin route.

Why don't the news reporters, who, in the news reports over the last week, suggest that Bus Éireann might lose customers to private coaches, also add, that that possibility might also be unlikely, if the private service that covers an area, operates to a different type of timetable, and that switching custom to a private operator isn't currently possible, in many cases depending on where you live.

As an example, many of the private services only have services to Dublin in the morning and then home again in the evening. As a result, they are good if you are commuting to Dublin every morning and home again in the evening. Many of the services that private companies operate, are not beneficial to anyone wanting to go from Dublin in the morning to where ever the company is based and back again in the evening to Dublin.

Why didn't RTE, and any other media outlet, stress this pretty important difference in the current services, in their news reports, when they did vox pops of people, at bus stops, on other buses, in the last week or so?

Such an option, of alternatives, does not apply for anyone who travels on Bus Éireann's services between Cavan and Dublin. There is no private company currently operating a service that is any way comparable to the 109, or the 109A service that provides a 24 hour service between Kells and Dublin, while also serving Navan, Dunshaughlin, Raotoath, Ashbourne and the airport, to and from Cavan and Dublin in the morning and throughout the day.

Also, many private coach services operate fewer services to and from Dublin, on Saturdays and Sundays, where in comparison, Bus Éireann operate a very regular service throughout the day at weekends, to and from Dublin, for example on the 109 and 109A services, to and from Dublin, where passengers have the option of going to Dublin in the morning, and also going from Dublin in the morning.

Even from Monday to Friday, many private services only have an option to go to Dublin in the mornings, and only provide services from Dublin, in the afternoons and evenings, and many do not run services from Dublin in the mornings. This is a major difference, in comparison to many of the services operated by Bus Éireann.

As an example, the first Kearns service from Dublin daily is at 4.10pm.

http://www.kearnstransport.com/index...le/from-dublin

Another example, from Monaghan Town, McConnons operate a different service, compared to the number 32 and 33 services that cover Monaghan, to and from Dublin.

http://www.mcconnonsbuses.com/?p=home

http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1478276752-32.pdf

http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1470909505-33.pdf

http://www.mcconnonsbuses.com/conten..._july_2013.pdf

Graham · 30-03-2017 01:58AM

end of the road wrote: »

on the basis the company would be trying to get around not paying redundantsy. and probably more. yeah, i'd say that stunt would be saw through rather quickly.

Which part of this are you not getting?

If employees refuse to work, they can be dismissed. No legal entitlement for redundancy arises.

devnull · 30-03-2017 01:58AM

horseburger wrote: »

Such an option, of alternatives, does not apply for anyone who travels on Bus Éireann's services between Cavan and Dublin. There is no private company currently operating a service that is any way comparable to the 109, or the 109A service that provides a 24 hour service between Kells and Dublin, while also serving Navan, Dunshaughlin, Raotoath, Ashbourne and the airport, to and from Cavan and Dublin in the morning and throughout the day.

Also, many private coach services operate fewer services to and from Dublin, on Saturdays and Sundays, where in comparison, Bus Éireann operate a very regular service throughout the day at weekends, to and from Dublin, for example on the 109 and 109A services, to and from Dublin, where passengers have the option of going to Dublin in the morning, and going from Dublin in the morning.

The 109/109A is a PSO service. The 109 has free buses and is subsidized to run the frequency it is.

Private companies cannot run in competition with PSO services, so I'm not quite sure how it's the fault of privates there are no alternatives on a route where they are not allowed to run on, maybe you should ask the strikers why they deprive people of the bus service they have a protected monopoly on?

You can cherry pick examples of apples to compare with oranges all of the time if you want

Another example, from Monaghan Town, McConnons operate a different service, compared to the number 32 and 33 services that cover Monaghan, to and from Dublin.

http://www.mcconnonsbuses.com/?p=home

http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1478276752-32.pdf

http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1470909505-33.pdf

http://www.mcconnonsbuses.com/conten..._july_2013.pdf

Because maybe there is not enough demand to sustain two operators running a full service and the operators have decided that and they only run peak services because that is all that works for them because BE had a head start on them.

You have to remember that BE is/was an incumbent on all Expressway routes, they have been running services going back decades from a time when private companies weren't even allowed to operate in competition with them. An incumbent always has an advantage.

Though I have to laugh, as someone said to me a few days ago, if BE are leading in a corridor, there is not saturation and the competition are not running too many buses, but if the competition are winning there are too many buses. It's laughable, really.

Also laughable is if BE operate more services than privates there is something wrong with privates and the way they operate, if privates operate more than BE the privates are only doing it to spite them.

Also, many private coach services operate fewer services to and from Dublin, on Saturdays and Sundays, where in comparison, Bus Éireann operate a very regular service throughout the day at weekends

Also many private coach services operate later and start earlier on many of the main routes when BE don't operate because, when some privates run very early morning services to airports and late services from and in some case operate almost 24 hours a day. when BE don't on Expressway.

Many of the services that private companies operate, are not beneficial to anyone wanting to go from Dublin in the morning to where ever the company is based and back again in the evening to Dublin.

Peak demand is to Dublin in the morning and from Dublin in evening so of course there will be more commercial services that reflect that, PSO services are only different because they are paid for by the taxpayer.

Why didn't she also stress that there are locations where there are no alternative bus services, for example on the 109 and 109A routes between Cavan and Dublin?

I can list about 20 things she should state if she was being truly neutral that she omitted on both sides, like she didn't inform people of licensing which is very relevant, the difference between PSO and commercial arms, the money that BE got for buses as well as subsidy figures. RTE allowed a bus eireann driver to give a false wage and didn't challenge it, if you think that RTE are biased against the strikers, that's funny because I happen to think they are biased in their favour, even if they are not 100%.

I would imagine that Dublin Coach weren't too happy with whoever it was, that edited the video, that went with Paschal Sheehy's report.

I'm not really surprised, RTE is poorly researched in general, they make errors on both sides because the standard of journalism is generally poor overall, with a bit of quality research they would be a better news source but that's what happens when they have no real TV news competition in Ireland. I don't watch RTE - I think it's a poor broadcaster in many ways but then again not like it has any real quality rival.

bk · 30-03-2017 02:05AM

horseburger wrote: »

Why didn't she also stress that there are locations where there are no alternative bus services, for example on the 109 and 109A routes between Cavan and Dublin?

And why is there no alternative service on that route?

Perhaps it is because BE have a guaranteed monopoly on that route?

It is interesting you mention both Dublin Coach and the 109 in the same post, since it was Dublin Coach who were very strongly rumoured to have applied for a license to operate along the same route as the 109.

That is to operate the service with zero subsidy from the taxpayer. They were looking to compete head to head with BE's heavily subsidised 109 service!

The rumour has it that they were turned down as it might hurt BE's business and that the NTA couldn't start giving out licenses for routes that followed so called PSO routes, as lets be honest, it would show up the lie of these routes requiring a subsidy to operate and thus open a whole can of worms.

The 109 is one of those routes that clearly are bull**** PSO routes. BE operate absolutely jam packed double deckers on the route every day, with relatively high fares and coaches bought for BE by the NTA and we are supposed to seriously believe this is a loss making route that needs a subsidy!

Clear BS IMO.

devnull · 30-03-2017 02:13AM

bk wrote: »

And why is there no alternative service on that route?

Perhaps it is because BE have a guaranteed monopoly on that route?

It is interesting you mention both Dublin Coach and the 109 in the same post, since it was Dublin Coach who were very strongly rumoured to have applied for a license to operate along the same route as the 109.

That is to operate the service with zero subsidy from the taxpayer. They were looking to compete head to head with BE's heavily subsidised 109 service!

The rumour has it that they were turned down as it might hurt BE's business and that the NTA couldn't start giving out licenses for routes that followed so called PSO routes, as lets be honest, it would show up the lie of these routes requiring a subsidy to operate and thus open a whole can of worms.

The 109 is one of those routes that clearly are bull**** PSO routes. BE operate absolutely jam packed double deckers on the route every day, with relatively high fares and coaches bought for BE by the NTA and we are supposed to seriously believe this is a loss making route that needs a subsidy!

Clear BS IMO.

Thing is if costs are too high no route will be viable.

horseburger · 30-03-2017 02:17AM

devnull wrote: »

The 109/109A is a PSO service. The 109 has free buses and is subsidized to run the frequency it is.

Private companies cannot run in competition with PSO services.

You can cherry pick examples of apples to compare with oranges all of the time if you want

Because maybe there is not enough demand to sustain two operators running a full service and the operators have decided that and they only run peak services because that is all that works for them because BE had a head start on them.

You have to remember that BE is/was an incumbent on all Expressway routes, they have been running services going back decades from a time when private companies weren't even allowed to operate in competition with them. An incumbent always has an advantage.

Though I have to laugh, as someone said to me a few days ago, if BE are leading in a corridor, there is not saturation and the competition are not running too many buses, but if the competition are winning there are too many buses. It's laughable, really.

Also laughable is if BE operate more services than privates there is something wrong with privates and the way they operate, if privates operate more than BE the privates are only doing it to spite them.

None of what you have just written has anything to do with the point I was making in my post, which was, if RTE, or any other news report suggests, by citing statements by the NTA, that there are alternative services to Bus Éireann services, that it should also be stressed in these news reports, that there are locations where there is currently no comparable alternative service.

Unless you are suggesting that passengers going to Dublin, at Cavan, Virginia, or Kells, who use the 109, or Cavan and Virginia passengers, who might use the number 30 bus, should drive to Ardee and get Collins Coaches in Ardee, or maybe drive to Drogheda or Dundalk and get Matthews or the train, or drive to Shercock, or Navan or Dunshaughlin and get Sillan Tours, or drive to Monaghan and get McConnons?

devnull · 30-03-2017 02:34AM

horseburger wrote: »

None of what you have just written has anything to do with the point I was making in my post, which was if RTE, or any other news report suggests, by citing statements by the NTA, that there are alternative services, that it should also be stressed in these news reports, that there are locations where there is currently no comparable alternative service.

And if they're doing that they should also state what the alternatives are and where they leave from where there are some available for other routes, by stating routes that have alternatives and stating where there are none, everyone has information and it's nice and neutral, rather than you appearing to call for only one side of the story to be told.

Unless you are suggesting that passengers going to Dublin at Cavan, Virginia, or Kells, who use the 109, or Cavan and Virginia passengers, who might use the number 30 bus, should drive to Ardee and get Collins Coaches in Ardee, or maybe drive to Drogheda or Dundalk and get Matthews or the train, or drive to Shercock, or Navan or Dunshaughlin and get Sillan Tours, or drive to Monaghan and get McConnons?

Unfortunately Bus Eireann are on strike and have protected monopoly on the 109/109A, so because of that the people who are only served on that route have no choice until the striking workers decide to go back to work or a deal is reached. It is unfortunate but there is nothing anyone can do. There is nothing me, you or any other company can do about it at the present time since the regulation is that private operators cannot operate in competition with PSO services.

I'm quite aware of the spin you are using and you discard anything that contradicts your points or gives an opposite view to yourself as not being relevant, whilst also making many irrelevant points yourself by trying to imply something without really saying it outright, I can see through that and I'm sure that other people on here can as well.

It is unfortunate that people on PSO routes may have no other service, but at the end of the day the workers are on strike, it is not the publics fault and this could be ended tomorrow if people wanted to work rotas which give the taxpayer better value for money with no cut to their terms and conditions and decide that they want to spend their time as bus driving actually driving a bus more often and save fuel rather than harming the planet and their companies finances by using excess fuel as they won't turn fuel saving systems on.

I did hear one driver today say that the money is needed for a proper work/life balance, clearly, work/life balance is really important to him if he is deciding that he would rather spend 1.5 hours a day at work than with his family who he claims he needs the work/life balance for.

end of the road · 30-03-2017 02:47AM

devnull wrote: »

You have to remember that BE is/was an incumbent on all Expressway routes, they have been running services going back decades from a time when private companies weren't even allowed to operate in competition with them.

private companies have always been allowed to operate in competition with be on certain routes and did so. there have been private operators long before be even existed

bk wrote: »

And why is there no alternative service on that route?

Perhaps it is because BE have a guaranteed monopoly on that route?

It is interesting you mention both Dublin Coach and the 109 in the same post, since it was Dublin Coach who were very strongly rumoured to have applied for a license to operate along the same route as the 109.

That is to operate the service with zero subsidy from the taxpayer. They were looking to compete head to head with BE's heavily subsidised 109 service!

The rumour has it that they were turned down as it might hurt BE's business and that the NTA couldn't start giving out licenses for routes that followed so called PSO routes, as lets be honest, it would show up the lie of these routes requiring a subsidy to operate and thus open a whole can of worms.

The 109 is one of those routes that clearly are bull**** PSO routes. BE operate absolutely jam packed double deckers on the route every day, with relatively high fares and coaches bought for BE by the NTA and we are supposed to seriously believe this is a loss making route that needs a subsidy!

Clear BS IMO.

if it didn't need a subsidy then it wouldn't be getting it.

devnull · 30-03-2017 02:52AM

end of the road wrote: »

private companies have always been allowed to operate in competition with be on certain routes and did so. there have been private operators long before be even existed.

Before 2009 it was a very different ballgame from now and both me and you know it.

By the time they were allowed a level playing field on commercial routes following the 2009 Public Transport Regulation Act every inter-urban route in Ireland and every route in the capital city was taken by the State companies. The private operators were left with the crumbs and without subsidy, yet still managed to get a foothold in the industry, and continue to provide better services that are cost effective.

if it didn't need a subsidy then it wouldn't be getting it.

I could say that if we didn't need water charges we wouldn't be getting it or property tax too.

bk · 30-03-2017 03:05AM

end of the road wrote: »

if it didn't need a subsidy then it wouldn't be getting it.

Then why not open all routes up to open, transparent, tender and lets see if a subsidy is needed to operate them or not?

end of the road · 30-03-2017 03:16AM

bk wrote: »

Then why not open all routes up to open, transparent, tender and lets see if a subsidy is needed to operate them or not?

because the relevant authorities will all ready have the required information to determine if the route needs a PSO or not. that is their job after all.

horseburger · 30-03-2017 03:21AM

devnull wrote: »

And if they're doing that they should also state what the alternatives are and where they leave from where there are some available for other routes, by stating routes that have alternatives and stating where there are none, everyone has information and it's nice and neutral, rather than you appearing to call for only one side of the story to be told.

Unfortunately Bus Eireann are on strike and have protected monopoly on the 109/109A, so because of that the people who are only served on that route have no choice until the striking workers decide to go back to work or a deal is reached. It is unfortunate but there is nothing anyone can do. There is nothing me, you or any other company can do about it at the present time since the regulation is that private operators cannot operate in competition with PSO services.

I'm quite aware of the spin you are using and you discard anything that contradicts your points or gives an opposite view to yourself as not being relevant, whilst also making many irrelevant points yourself by trying to imply something without really saying it outright, I can see through that and I'm sure that other people on here can as well.

It is unfortunate that people on PSO routes may have no other service, but at the end of the day the workers are on strike, it is not the publics fault and this could be ended tomorrow if people wanted to work rotas which give the taxpayer better value for money with no cut to their terms and conditions and decide that they want to spend their time as bus driving actually driving a bus more often and save fuel rather than harming the planet and their companies finances by using excess fuel as they won't turn fuel saving systems on.

I did hear one driver today say that the money is needed for a proper work/life balance, clearly, work/life balance is really important to him if he is deciding that he would rather spend 1.5 hours a day at work than with his family who he claims he needs the work/life balance for.

I'd appreciate it if you would stop attributing statements to me, that I did not make.

I did not call "for only one side of the story to be told".

You said the other day, that I was making you "feel like a criminal".

You never replied to my question to you, as to when, ever, did I accuse you of criminality.

You made this allegation, while at the same time you accuse me of making irrelevant points.

On the one hand you are accusing me of "spin" but at the same time you seem to kind of half agree with the point that I made about the news reports, to which I referred.

You stated, in an earlier post, in response to the point I was making, about the two RTE News reports:

"I'm not really surprised, RTE is poorly researched in general, they make errors on both sides because the standard of journalism is generally poor overall, with a bit of quality research they would be a better news source but that's what happens when they have no real TV news competition in Ireland. I don't watch RTE - I think it's a poor broadcaster in many ways but then again not like it has any real quality rival".

You replied to the point I was making about RTE not stating, that in many areas, there are currently no alternatives, by saying, that they should have listed where alternative services exist.

RTE did facilitate viewers as to where they can find out details of alternatives, despite your claim that it didn't.

Ingrid Miley in her report, on Thursday 23rd March on the 9pm news, cited the NTA, stating that the NTA were "pointing out that there are alternatives and advising passengers to look at the NTA journey planner".

Again, I like the way you try to suggest that you are neutral, and that you are open to hearing both sides of an argument, but in contrast to that, you are always quick to come in on the attack, and criticize Bus Éireann, whenever I, or other posters, ask how other bus companies, might operate bus routes, if they do end up taking over the routes currently operated by Bus Éireann.

You do this by suggesting that it isn't an important question to ask - even though it very much is something important to consider seriously.

You also do this by being antagonistic, by suggesting that I am immediately being negative about private operators, which is not the case.

If you bothered to read posts I have written before, in other threads, you would see that I have written positively about the various private services that operate to and from Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Belfast, Kilkenny, and other more local private companies.

Ultimately, you don't know for certain how similar such services will be, compared to the current services, if other companies take over routes currently served by Bus Éireann, but you keep criticizing me for considering this issue, while at the same time trying to suggest that you are impartial.

I also like the way, you feel the need to assume support from other posters, in you criticisms of the posts that I have written.

Why should anyone else's opinion of what I have written, matter to you, if you are truly confident about the arguments that you are making?

bk · 30-03-2017 04:10AM

end of the road wrote: »

because the relevant authorities will all ready have the required information to determine if the route needs a PSO or not. that is their job after all.

And if that is true, then you and BE should have no fear of an open and transparent tendering of the route.

BE should be able to bid on the route with the same level of subsidy it currently receives and it should still win these routes right?

monument · 30-03-2017 07:45AM

horseburger wrote: »

Interesting that you mention that. Did you see the RTE 9pm news last Saturday?

The report by Paschal Sheehy showed a video clip of an Aircoach bus, a Dublin Coach bus, and a bus of another coach company parked on Patrick's Quay in Cork. It then showed another video clip of an Aircoach bus stopping to pick up passengers who were waiting. It then showed Paschal Sheehy doing a vox pop with a man on a bus going to Dungarvan from Cork, saying he took this bus because Bus Éireann was on strike and that he normally gets Bus Éireann and that the service he was getting was handy because it goes direct from Cork to Dungarvan.

The impression given in the report, by the way it showed an Aircoach bus stopping to pick up passengers, and then the vox pop with the passenger going from Cork to Dungarvan, was that Aircoach are running this service from Cork to Dungarvan.

As I understand it, it is Dublin Coach that is running that service.

I would imagine that Dublin Coach weren't too happy with whoever it was, that edited the video, that went with Paschal Sheehy's report.

On the issue of reporting, some on this forum have suggested that RTE are giving the NBRU and SIPTU favourable coverage.

I tend to think otherwise.

On the RTE news on Thursday, Ingrid Miley in her report, on Thursday 23rd March on the 9pm news, cited the NTA, stating that the NTA were "pointing out that there are alternatives and advising passengers to look at the NTA journey planner".

http://www.rte.ie/news/player/nine-news-web/2017/0325/

http://www.rte.ie/news/player/nine-news-web/2017/0323/

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/rte...3250/10704670/

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/rte...3250/10703650/

Why didn't she also stress that there are locations where there are no alternative bus services, for example on the 109 and 109A routes between Cavan and Dublin?

RTE have done a number of reports, in the last week, suggesting that people who use Bus Éireann, might switch to other services on a permanent basis. Ingrid Miley did a vox pop recently with passengers on the Collins Coach bus that covers Carrickmacross to Dublin, in a report suggesting that companies like Collins might take over a route like the Derry Dublin route.

Why don't the news reporters, who, in the news reports over the last week, suggest that Bus Éireann might lose customers to private coaches, also add, that that possibility might also be unlikely, if the private service that covers an area, operates to a different type of timetable, and that switching custom to a private operator isn't currently possible, in many cases depending on where you live.

As an example, many of the private services only have services to Dublin in the morning and then home again in the evening. As a result, they are good if you are commuting to Dublin every morning and home again in the evening. Many of the services that private companies operate, are not beneficial to anyone wanting to go from Dublin in the morning to where ever the company is based and back again in the evening to Dublin.

Why didn't RTE, and any other media outlet, stress this pretty important difference in the current services, in their news reports, when they did vox pops of people, at bus stops, on other buses, in the last week or so?

Such an option, of alternatives, does not apply for anyone who travels on Bus Éireann's services between Cavan and Dublin. There is no private company currently operating a service that is any way comparable to the 109, or the 109A service that provides a 24 hour service between Kells and Dublin, while also serving Navan, Dunshaughlin, Raotoath, Ashbourne and the airport, to and from Cavan and Dublin in the morning and throughout the day.

Also, many private coach services operate fewer services to and from Dublin, on Saturdays and Sundays, where in comparison, Bus Éireann operate a very regular service throughout the day at weekends, to and from Dublin, for example on the 109 and 109A services, to and from Dublin, where passengers have the option of going to Dublin in the morning, and also going from Dublin in the morning.

Even from Monday to Friday, many private services only have an option to go to Dublin in the mornings, and only provide services from Dublin, in the afternoons and evenings, and many do not run services from Dublin in the mornings. This is a major difference, in comparison to many of the services operated by Bus Éireann.

As an example, the first Kearns service from Dublin daily is at 4.10pm.

http://www.kearnstransport.com/index...le/from-dublin

Another example, from Monaghan Town, McConnons operate a different service, compared to the number 32 and 33 services that cover Monaghan, to and from Dublin.

http://www.mcconnonsbuses.com/?p=home

http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1478276752-32.pdf

http://buseireann.ie/timetables/1470909505-33.pdf

http://www.mcconnonsbuses.com/conten..._july_2013.pdf

Stop doing large edits to your posts -- if you want to add something post another post.

-- Moderator

54and56 · 30-03-2017 09:40AM

Is this strike still on? I don't see any coverage or hear how the masses are being inconvenienced.

Fred Swanson · 30-03-2017 10:02AM

This post has been deleted.

pilly · 30-03-2017 10:12AM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It's laughable really, it's like the kid that throws it toys out of the pram and everyone ignores them.

They're not having the effect they hoped for.

StringerBell · 30-03-2017 10:20AM

Plenty of people voicing discontent about the continuing issues, teachers on the radio this morning talking about their commute to Dublin from Ashbourne, others living in Kildare talking about the trouble they are having getting to work in Dublin, the extra expense being incurred.

There is life outside the Pale.

pilly · 30-03-2017 10:31AM

StringerBell wrote: »

Plenty of people voicing discontent about the continuing issues, teachers on the radio this morning talking about their commute to Dublin from Ashbourne, others living in Kildare talking about the trouble they are having getting to work in Dublin, the extra expense being incurred.

There is life outside the Pale.

I live outside the pale Stringer. Live in a small village, work in another small village and shop in a small town. Not ONE person has mentioned it all week.

This argument of rural Ireland would be lost is a bit of a myth being thrown out there by unions if you ask me.

devnull · 30-03-2017 10:38AM

horseburger wrote: »

You never replied to my question to you, as to when, ever, did I accuse you of criminality.

I have no desire to get into personal spats, whilst also please understand that the last couple of days I have had a lot going on and have not had time to reply to every single point from every single poster.

On the one hand you are accusing me of "spin" but at the same time you seem to kind of half agree with the point that I made about the news reports, to which I referred.

You stated, in an earlier post, in response to the point I was making, about the two RTE News reports:

RTE did facilitate viewers as to where they can find out details of alternatives, despite your claim that it didn't.

Ingrid Miley in her report, on Thursday 23rd March on the 9pm news, cited the NTA, stating that the NTA were "pointing out that there are alternatives and advising passengers to look at the NTA journey planner".

I call that more of a neutral comment, the journey planner will show where there are alternatives and where there are not alternatives they will not show. The point is that RTE is rarely detailed enough on matters or in-depth on such things like a bus strike and often looks at things in an all too brief matter, the fact they're happy for people to say stuff without even checking it's correct is testament to that.

You are always quick to come in on the attack, and criticize Bus Éireann, whenever I, or other posters, ask how other bus companies, might operate bus routes, if they do end up taking over the routes currently operated by Bus Éireann.

I have my views you have yours, both are entitled to them and I won't be drawn into any personal spats on this board, I appreciate that different people have different views and that is why I believe people have a right to have their views heard even if you disagree with them and it's clear both me and you disagree on a lot.

You are just speculating and you mentioned that the 109 is the kind of service that privates do not operate and then I tell you why and you tell me that it is not relevant? You made a point and I'm giving you some background to it, unfortunately you will find on Boards that unlike RTE, often you will find people will add depth and analysis of what people say

Ultimately, you don't know for certain how similar such services will be, compared to the current services, if other companies take over routes currently served by Bus Éireann, but you keep criticizing me for considering this issue, while at the same time trying to suggest that you are impartial.

You don't know how they will work either, none of us posses a crystal ball, we will have to wait and see what happens, you are just speculating, as I would be if I started talking about it, I've already stated on many occasions that I have no connection to any transport company, I am not registered as a member of any political party and have no involvement with the industry at all - that's true, nothing more I detest than a liar so I'm certainly not one.

murphaph · 30-03-2017 11:09AM

end of the road wrote: »

because the relevant authorities will all ready have the required information to determine if the route needs a PSO or not. that is their job after all.

Ridiculous post. How do you know how much your house is worth until you put it up for sale and get bids? Answer: You don't.

It's not just about knowing that a PSO route needs a subsidy (or not). It's about knowing what subsidy it requires!

Do you think state agencies should be trying to save taxpayers' money or squander it?

kerosene · 30-03-2017 11:16AM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The strike is still on but as the private operators have the slack covered it is now a non story.

I was passing Bus Aras yesterday and there was 6 lads hanging around outside talking.

If you were looking for the bus drivers on strike there was around 40/50 of them in Mulligans on Poolbeg street yesterday, early afternoon.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 30-03-2017 11:19AM

murphaph wrote: »

Do you think state agencies should be trying to save taxpayers' money or squander it?

Getting fed up with the circular argument. End of the Road has said on a number of occasions that he thinks that the state doesn't need to save money.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 30-03-2017 11:20AM

murphaph wrote: »

Do you think state agencies should be trying to save taxpayers' money or squander it?

Getting fed up with the circular argument. End of the Road has said on a number of occasions that he thinks that the state doesn't need to save money.

sjb25 · 30-03-2017 11:42AM

StringerBell wrote: »

There is life outside the Pale.

I live outside the pale I had to get the bus Monday got from Wexford to Louth got on perfectly fine with two separate private bus operators (Wexford bus and Matthew's) hassle free on time nice buses both companies good price didn't miss bus eireann at all feck them at least I can rely on the privates

BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

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