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Squatters who 'broke into' pensioner's home ordered to vacate premises by Wednesday

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Comments

  • #102
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,187 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Absent the intent to commit an offence or in a manner likely to cause fear i dont think that applies. Simply being in a building you dont own is not an offence.

    I'd have thought changing the locks and marching into a building you don't own could be reasonably seen as causing fear to it's 80-year-old owner. From the article itself:

    "The judge said he had continued to cause worry and distress to Kavanagh who was in his eighties and in ill-health. She said Kavanagh’s belongings in the property had been interfered with."


  • #103
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,573 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    jimgoose wrote: »
    I'd have thought changing the locks and marching into a building you don't own could be reasonably seen as causing fear to it's 80-year-old owner. From the article itself:

    "The judge said he had continued to cause worry and distress to Kavanagh who was in his eighties and in ill-health. She said Kavanagh’s belongings in the property had been interfered with."


    how can you cause fear to somebody who isnt there? Worry and distress are not fear.


  • #104
    skankkuvhima
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭skankkuvhima


    Surely if you are instructed by the lawful owner of a house (that you are not renting or have not been living in) to leave and you refuse you are committing a crime?


  • #105
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,187 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    how can you cause fear to somebody who isnt there? Worry and distress are not fear.

    Not fear for one's immediate physical safety, no, but fear nevertheless.


  • #106
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,573 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skankkuvhima wrote: »
    Surely if you are instructed by the lawful owner of a house (that you are not renting or have not been living in) to leave and you refuse you are committing a crime?


    unfortunately not, assuming i am reading the public order act correctly. You have to be doing something likely to cause fear and even then it has to a garda that orders you to leave.


  • #107
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,573 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Not fear for one's immediate physical safety, no, but fear nevertheless.

    No idea if the fear they refer to refers to fear for personal safety or a general fear. i suspect it is the former.


  • #108
    skankkuvhima
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭skankkuvhima


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    unfortunately not, assuming i am reading the public order act correctly. You have to be doing something likely to cause fear and even then it has to a garda that orders you to leave.

    You might start getting nervous at 1 a.m. when you are heading off to bed and some stranger is sitting in your living room refusing to leave?


  • #109
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,573 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skankkuvhima wrote: »
    You might start getting nervous at 1 a.m. when you are heading off to bed and some stranger is sitting in your living room refusing to leave?

    Indeed you would. and that is something that is likely to cause fear. Or cause you to reach for the hurley beside the bed :)


  • #110
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,187 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    No idea if the fear they refer to refers to fear for personal safety or a general fear. i suspect it is the former.

    I would expect the spirit and intent of it refers to fear in a person in the house or on the associated land at the time, yes.


  • #111
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,573 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    jimgoose wrote: »
    I would expect the spirit and intent of it refers to fear in a person in the house or on the associated land at the time, yes.

    you are probably correctly. except in the OP the pensioner wasn't in the house.


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  • #112
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,187 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you are probably correctly. except in the OP the pensioner wasn't in the house.

    Oh I know that, different sort of fear.


  • #113
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,743 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    I wonder is it a coincidence that the homeowner happened to be a pensioner, I'm reasonably sure a few lads posting here would agree with me that if we found someone squatting they would be removed fairly lively out of the place.


  • #114
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,639 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    I wonder is it a coincidence that the homeowner happened to be a pensioner, I'm reasonably sure a few lads posting here would agree with me that if we found someone squatting they would be removed fairly lively out of the place.

    Would actually be hilarious if a bunch of crusties inadvertently occupied a gaff belonging to a criminal.

    Make a funny Love /Hate subplot.


  • #115
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,314 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    how can you cause fear to somebody who isnt there? Worry and distress are not fear.
    Fear that stuff will go missing, and/or sentimental jewellery getting pawned off.
    andekwarhola wrote: »
    Would actually be hilarious if a bunch of crusties inadvertently occupied a gaff belonging to a criminal.
    It wouldn't make the news. It'd just make a hole in the ground.


  • #116
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    I wonder is it a coincidence that the homeowner happened to be a pensioner, I'm reasonably sure a few lads posting here would agree with me that if we found someone squatting they would be removed fairly lively out of the place.

    And if the squatter could prove that you hurt them while ejecting them, you could be facing both criminal and civil charges.... At least, that's my understanding of the law. Which is why you need the Gardai to remove them.

    Dunno if I'm right tho.. I have this feeling though that it's something like that.


  • #117
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,037 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    There are very many elderly folks houses lying vacant due to the Fair
    Deal..

    Isn't it disgraceful that all that stock is just lying idle and rotting away.. three in my road already. The children just said they were not letting them out as the tax is too high, the hassle is too much and the income is taken into account for Fair Deal assessment.

    Something wrong right there. But I don't know what the solution is to get them occupied.

    They will be squatted in eventually.


  • #118
    Lu Tze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Lu Tze


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And if the squatter could prove that you hurt them while ejecting them, you could be facing both criminal and civil charges.... At least, that's my understanding of the law. Which is why you need the Gardai to remove them.

    Dunno if I'm right tho.. I have this feeling though that it's something like that.

    What squatter? I've never seen this man before in my life!


  • #119
    Fozzydog3
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Fozzydog3


    4rAS5DV
    I have to say the credit union are really on the ball with their ads


  • #120
    skankkuvhima
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭skankkuvhima


    Fozzydog3 wrote: »
    4rAS5DV
    I have to say the credit union are really on the ball with their ads

    No need to take out the loan when you can stroll into whatever house you like and live in it rent free for 6 months.


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  • #121
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,743 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And if the squatter could prove that you hurt them while ejecting them, you could be facing both criminal and civil charges.... At least, that's my understanding of the law. Which is why you need the Gardai to remove them.

    Dunno if I'm right tho.. I have this feeling though that it's something like that.

    That would be bloody ridiculous if it's true that the owner could be sued for money, although it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

    Sure free legal aid for him no doubt.


  • #122
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Those are pretty much all dictionary definitions of selfish. You wouldn't last long in court if that's the best you can do.

    So being "selfish" is a crime now? I missed that being passed into law.


  • #123
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    That would be bloody ridiculous if it's true that the owner could be sued for money, although it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

    Sure free legal aid for him no doubt.

    Isn't it the case that if someone breaks into your home at night, the line is very narrow between defending yourself and doing assault?


  • #124
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Isn't it the case that if someone breaks into your home at night, the line is very narrow between defending yourself and doing assault?

    Nope. See Defence and the Dwelling Act.


  • #125
    donkeykong5
    Registered Users Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    It's Wednesday. Have they left yet ?


  • #126
    goose2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    I suppose a deeper question is, where does property come from? You own land because you inherited/bought it from its previous owner. The previous owner inherited/bought it from someone else. Trace back the ownership and you inevitably come to an act of naked theft by the king.


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  • #127
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,314 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    goose2005 wrote: »
    I suppose a deeper question is, where does property come from?
    Satan. All land comes from Satan.


  • #128
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    the_syco wrote: »
    Satan. All land comes from Satan.

    Not Kilbarrack, that's God's creation.


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