Rental markets discriminate against men

29-03-2017 08:42AM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's discrimination based on your personal experience. Which, if that's what you want to do then knock yourself out, but just don't claim you aren't discriminating

Yup. You're right. I am discriminating. Hadn't thought it as such before, but you got me thinking. Not going to change anything but.. fair point.

Stonedpilot · 29-03-2017 08:45AM

jimgoose wrote: »

Nonsense! In my experience girls in house-rentals are dirty, untidy, lazy little wagons. I myself am immaculately clean and tidy. Apart from the odd Tsar Bomba induced by a gallon of porter followed by an Indian takeaway... :pac:

Yep in my experience women can be far dirtier than men wont go into detail as the zealous politically correct bridage who seem to live on this forum be out with their pitchforks but Ive seen stuff that would turn the stomach of a hardened filthy slob by women. That myth that women are cleaner is just that, a myth.

Some have pointed out there are ads men only but these are in the small minority most discriminating ads discrimate against men only.

Thelomen Toblackai · 29-03-2017 08:55AM

BlinkingLights wrote: »

Think you'll find making sweeping assumptions about someone based on their gender is pretty much the definition of discrimination.

I mean if you were making statements like that about say Irish people in Australia as an Australian landlord, you'd have absolute uproar.

What if you made statements like that about men/women in Australia though ? Would there be uproar ?

Are people offended because they feel discriminated against or offended because someone else might be offended if this happened to some other group of people ?

People discriminate and generalise all the time. It doesn't mean the "market" is biased against one particular group. Landlords are looking for similar people to the previous or current good tenants they had. If theres 3 guys in their 20s already in a place chances are a 50 year old woman isn't going to blend in. Is that sexism and ageism?

Or is it just the way things are with landlords always going to pick a 20 something guy similar to the lads already there or people they've had experience with ? And is advertising that fact wrong or a time saver for themselves and others ?

The J Stands for Jay · 29-03-2017 08:55AM

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

I find leaving the seat up helps stop that.
They do make a mean cup of tea in return for putting out bins.
I refuse to do "man" jobs for my feminist friends. I have been known to mow the lawn, test fire alarms, bleed radiators and change bulbs for my non feminist female friends though in return for baked goods and tea

Their shenanigans with the toilet seat is disgusting. An entire gender who refuse to close the lid of the toilet just in case they have to look at the toilet and make necessary adjustments before slapping their arses down. Then they wonder why their toothbrush tastes of wee.

BlinkingLights · 29-03-2017 09:13AM

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

What if you made statements like that about men/women in Australia though ? Would there be uproar ?

Are people offended because they feel discriminated against or offended because someone else might be offended if this happened to some other group of people ?

People discriminate and generalise all the time. It doesn't mean the "market" is biased against one particular group. Landlords are looking for similar people to the previous or current good tenants they had. If theres 3 guys in their 20s already in a place chances are a 50 year old woman isn't going to blend in. Is that sexism and ageism?

Or is it just the way things are with landlords always going to pick a 20 something guy similar to the lads already there or people they've had experience with ? And is advertising that fact wrong or a time saver for themselves and others ?

People said exactly the same about why they wouldn't hire women for jobs in the 1960s. I remember reading EXACTLY the same logic for why an incredibly talented sound engineer and practically the mother of modern electronic music couldn't get a job in a recording studio because you know ... "She wouldn't fit in"...

BlinkingLights · 29-03-2017 09:25AM

McGaggs wrote: »

Their shenanigans with the toilet seat is disgusting. An entire gender who refuse to close the lid of the toilet just in case they have to look at the toilet and make necessary adjustments before slapping their arses down. Then they wonder why their toothbrush tastes of wee.

Leaving the seat up is an American problem due to their quirky approach to plumbing and inexplicable preference for high fill toilets that have water up near the rim.

Lifting the seat is more polite as it avoids splashing!

Samuel T. Cogley · 29-03-2017 09:39AM

The Equal Status Act is thought not to apply to house-shares. I don't know if this has actually been tested. The issue with applying it is when it's Rent a Room (RAR) you'd be forcing a homeowner to live with someone they they don't want. Now one could say don't rent then, but actually that's the problem, many would not, reducing supply.

Where this becomes a bit of a sticky wicket is where the house in NOT owner occupied. Unless there is a primary tenant who is subletting the rental DOES fall under the Equal Status Act so complain away. (i.e. everyone in the house is a tenant for the purposes of the RTA).

Mr.Plough · 29-03-2017 10:10AM

My experience fwiw (I'm male):-

I've lived with:

2 women in an apartment
1 man and 1 woman in an apartment
1 man in an apartment
1 woman in an apartment
2 men in an apartment
3 women in a house

In my experience:-
Overall, men and women on average are as clean as each other.

Occurrence of drama/arguments was probably an even split. Arguments tended to be more 'explosive' with male tenants and resolved relatively quickly, while with women they were less explosive, but more drawn out with longer lasting tension.

On both occasions living in an all male household, we didn't get the deposit back and didn't argue this (we were however relatively young). All other occasions there were no issues.

Personally, if I was a landlord I would prefer women renting my property, but if I was a renter, I would prefer to live with men as the atmosphere has generally been more relaxed.

Arcade_Tryer · 29-03-2017 10:24AM

It's ridiculous that landlords are allowed to blatantly advertise their discrimination policy on daft.

If they want to discriminate in person when you inquire about the property, fine, it happens everyday in others aspects of life. But to be able to advertise their discrimination makes a mockery of the whole Yes Equality mantra this country was supposed to be buying into.

Samuel T. Cogley · 29-03-2017 10:27AM

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

It's ridiculous that landlords are allowed to blatantly advertise their discrimination policy on daft.

If they want to discriminate in person when you inquire about the property, fine, it happens everyday in others aspects of life. But to be able to advertise their discrimination makes a mockery of the whole Yes Equality mantra this country was supposed to be buying into.

Trying to get a room almost panic inducing at this stage. I would prefer to tell someone from the outset than them traipse all the way from where they are, which could be Kerry, just to be messed about that the viewing.

29-03-2017 10:39AM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote:

Trying to get a room almost panic inducing at this stage. I would prefer to tell someone from the outset than them traipse all the way from where they are, which could be Kerry, just to be messed about that the viewing.

If they had anecdotal evidence like has been stated previously in the thread that their experience with black people was that they were untidy, they didn't want to live with gays because they are "understandably" uneasy (as has been cited for women may not want to share with men)

So would it be ok for someone to put up an ad stating "no blacks/ no gays?

Mr.Plough · 29-03-2017 10:47AM

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

It's ridiculous that landlords are allowed to blatantly advertise their discrimination policy on daft.

If they want to discriminate in person when you inquire about the property, fine, it happens everyday in others aspects of life. But to be able to advertise their discrimination makes a mockery of the whole Yes Equality mantra this country was supposed to be buying into.

As a renter though, I rather they advertise their discrimination online as it saves me time.

osarusan · 29-03-2017 10:54AM

I just had a look on Daft - not at the accomodation shares/rooms for rent but at the properties for rent.

I searched for 'female' and got 7 hits. Then 'male' and got 10 - 7 of those were the 'female'.

In those 7 cases, 4 of them were from idiots advertising rooms rather than full properties.

1 was a bedsit at top of a property owned by the female landlord.

2 were apartments that said they 'would suit females'.

For the 3 ads that mentioned 'male', one was, again, a room in a house occupied by males. One was a bedsit that would 'suit a single male', and one was a tiny cottage out in Wicklow that is 'Ideal for male single person non smoker no pets strictly'.

Zebra3 · 29-03-2017 11:02AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I tend to prefer female tenants because they look after the house better. Whenever I get in men as tenants, the costs to repair the place after they move out are usually higher than if I had a female tenant. I've also had guys skip out without paying rent but it hasn't happened (yet) with women. I wouldn't mind a mixed group of genders but usually I get individuals looking for places rather than people who already know each other.

It's not discrimination. It's a matter of experience with the rental market. It comes down to costs.

Replace female with white, men with black, and see how it goes.

LirW · 29-03-2017 11:04AM

In the current market let's face it:
Landlords can "discriminate" against men, families with young kids, families with old kids, pet-owners, tractor-owners, your mom, smokers, crossfitters, Civil servants, HAP-tenants etc.pp.
You also only have to give all of your private details including a medical record of yourself and the entire family to make sure you wouldn't suddenly pass because one marker in your nan's blood was suspicious. To get a bedsit for only 3000 euro a month.

That's the way it is at the moment unfortunately.

My partner's uncle has to move out of the house he lives in because his siblings want to sell it (was the family home of their parents). Even though he is a little bit lazy when it comes to the apartment hunt, it is more than difficult to find a place... also what houseshare would take a guy in his late 50s?

pilly · 29-03-2017 11:29AM

The way I look at is people discriminate in all kinds of ways on a daily basis. When it became illegal to advertise "no rent allowance" does anyone think that this actually forced a LL to take someone on rent allowance? No, they simply give the house to someone else.

To me it saves renters an awful lot of time if these restrictions are mentioned. At the end of the day LL's can not be forced to choose any tenant so regulation around is merely on paper anyway.

However, if everyone who is ever offended by anything complains the only difference it will cause is renters wasting huge amounts of time.

H3llR4iser · 29-03-2017 11:43AM

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Women are less open to sharing with men...

...Men are more open to sharing with women...

The quoted, in a nutshell - it's most likely a matter of probability, more or less along these lines:

Share with female tenant(s) only - looking for Women Only;
Share with both female and male tenant(s) - looking for Women or Men;
Share with male tenant(s) only - looking for Women or Men;

As for the reasons, frankly there are plenty - some quirkier than others. That said, back when I was sharing I also ran in a couple of all-female house shares in Dublin looking specifically for a guy; Granted, talking to them they were more or less looking for a rent-paying, resident handyman rather than a flatmate, but still

When it comes to renting a house/apartment alone, I can't say I've met any trouble due to the appendage between my legs; Actually one or two landlords clearly stated they'd prefer to rent to a single, working man rather than a young family with small kids etc.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Overall, it's a variation of a "dick tax" to quote a friend of mine.

The "dick tax" made my day - I may steal this quote every now and then

Samuel T. Cogley · 29-03-2017 11:51AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If they had anecdotal evidence like has been stated previously in the thread that their experience with black people was that they were untidy, they didn't want to live with gays because they are "understandably" uneasy (as has been cited for women may not want to share with men)

So would it be ok for someone to put up an ad stating "no blacks/ no gays?

Gay friendly houses frequently advertise as such. Other legislation and Daft's (or similar) polices may catch you out with the no blacks thing. However I'd prefer to know you were a racist asshat before wasting my time tbh. (Not that you are I know you're only citing an example).

But we're not talking about sexuality or colour, we're talking about sex, and it's not unusual for a house full of girls to want another girl. Common sense has to occationally give way to being PC.

__Alex__ · 29-03-2017 11:58AM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Was recently looking to change my rental situation and with my budget and the area in question choice is limited to say the least. On daft.ie I was amazed at how many properties say women only. In a situation already limited and unless I get a sex change this discrimination makes it even harder to get somewhere. This to me should not be allowed. If the roles were reversed womens groups be up in arms but because its men this misandry is somehow allowed. Some properties only mention they want a female tenant after you enquire which limits the limited market even more. Others come across this nonsense?. Landlords should not be allowed to be biased based on sex .

Wow, shoehorned in in the first post of the thread. Impressive. I've seen male-only ads. Strangely no "women's groups" up in arms. Specifying a gender preference actually does go against equality legislation so anyone explicitly mentioning it in an ad is daft, but of course it happens anyway.

tuisginideach · 29-03-2017 12:00PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I tend to prefer female tenants because they look after the house better. Whenever I get in men as tenants, the costs to repair the place after they move out are usually higher than if I had a female tenant. I've also had guys skip out without paying rent but it hasn't happened (yet) with women. I wouldn't mind a mixed group of genders but usually I get individuals looking for places rather than people who already know each other.

It's not discrimination. It's a matter of experience with the rental market. It comes down to costs.

I find the absolute opposite - over the past 15 years my Irish male (student) tenants are far cleaner, more pleasant, less hassle and 100% more truthful than the Irish female student tenants I have had. Would never rent to a house of female students again.

__Alex__ · 29-03-2017 12:02PM

Brego888 wrote: »

In my extensive renting career of over a decade I've found men to be easier to live with, cleaner and less drama than women.

The opposite for me, also with an extensive renting history (over 50 different housemates). The women were cleaner by a country mile. Some of the conditions menfolk I've lived were happy to live in was truly gobsmacking. One happily admitted that he hadn't cleaned his en-suite since moving in. He had been there two years...

Samuel T. Cogley · 29-03-2017 12:05PM

__Alex__ wrote: »

Wow, shoehorned in in the first post of the thread. Impressive. I've seen male-only ads. Strangely no "women's groups" up in arms. Specifying a gender preference actually does go against equality legislation so anyone explicitly mentioning it in an ad is daft, but of course it happens anyway.

It doesn't or at least probably doesn't where the RTA does not apply. I'd have to dig out the opinions I've read (furnished by other boardsies) but IIRC one was an EU legal opinion of some sort.

I'd be interested to see the otherside if there are such opinions, I don't think it's been tested but delighted to be corrected there.

pilly · 29-03-2017 12:10PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

It doesn't or at least probably doesn't where the RTA does not apply. I'd have to dig out the opinions I've read (furnished by other boardsies) but IIRC one was an EU legal opinion of some sort.

I'd be interested to see the otherside if there are such opinions, I don't think it's been tested but delighted to be corrected there.

I know from advertising on Daft that they will not allow advertisements with "no rent allowance" etc. because of regulation so I'm sure if there was a regulation that covered "only females" then they wouldn't allow those ads also.

jimgoose · 29-03-2017 12:11PM

pilly wrote: »

I know from advertising on Daft that they will not allow advertisements with "no rent allowance" etc. because of regulation so I'm sure if there was a regulation that covered "only females" then they wouldn't allow those ads also.

Most ads seem not to mind gender, but one thing I have noticed is that just about every ad on Daft for house-shares specifies "no couples".

pilly · 29-03-2017 12:12PM

jimgoose wrote: »

Most ads seem not to mind gender, but one thing I have noticed is that just about every ad on Daft for house-shares specifies "no couples".

That's because there are extra problems involved in living with a couple and extra costs.

__Alex__ · 29-03-2017 12:17PM

jimgoose wrote: »

Most ads seem not to mind gender, but one thing I have noticed is that just about every ad on Daft for house-shares specifies "no couples".

That's because living with couples sucks donkey balls. There's two of ye, just rent an apartment!

Samuel T. Cogley · 29-03-2017 12:24PM

pilly wrote: »

I know from advertising on Daft that they will not allow advertisements with "no rent allowance" etc. because of regulation so I'm sure if there was a regulation that covered "only females" then they wouldn't allow those ads also.

The no rent allowance thing is a different peice of legilsation AFAIK. We have to be careful here; just becuase Daft.ie's legal team agree on a position doesn't mean it's correct.

pilly · 29-03-2017 12:28PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote:

The no rent allowance thing is a different peice of legilsation AFAIK. We have to be careful here; just becuase Daft.ie's legal team agree on a position doesn't mean it's correct.

This is not a legal issues thread Samuel. Anyone can express an opinion.

jimgoose · 29-03-2017 12:29PM

pilly wrote: »

That's because there are extra problems involved in living with a couple and extra costs.

__Alex__ wrote: »

That's because living with couples sucks donkey balls. There's two of ye, just rent an apartment!

Oh indeed yes, I know! :pac:

Samuel T. Cogley · 29-03-2017 12:29PM

pilly wrote: »

This is not a legal issues thread Samuel. Anyone can express an opinion.

Of course, see above for mine.

Rental markets discriminate against men

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