Rental markets discriminate against men

Stonedpilot

Was recently looking to change my rental situation and with my budget and the area in question choice is limited to say the least. On daft.ie I was amazed at how many properties say women only. In a situation already limited and unless I get a sex change this discrimination makes it even harder to get somewhere. This to me should not be allowed. If the roles were reversed womens groups be up in arms but because its men this misandry is somehow allowed. Some properties only mention they want a female tenant after you enquire which limits the limited market even more. Others come across this nonsense?. Landlords should not be allowed to be biased based on sex .

The J Stands for Jay

Are they assuming your gender?

skankkuvhima

I'm afraid the white knights on boards shout down this sort of thing OP, but you are of course correct. Reverse the gender and we would have legislation banning discrimination on gender immediately

skankkuvhima

McGaggs wrote: »

Are they assuming your gender?

Good idea, claim you are gender fluid

FTA69

Ha, I remember coming back from England at 21 to start university and being really annoyed that loads of the student properties were women only. I was bored one afternoon and started ringing them and asking them to view the properties and one landlady met me, decided I wasn't a stinking drunken mess and stuck me in a house full of women. I ended up going out with one of them for five years and having a gay old time of it.

RayM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

If the roles were reversed womens groups be up in arms but because its men this misandry is somehow allowed.

I've seen plenty of places on daft.ie that specify "Looking for males only". The way the market is at the moment, landlords can afford to be picky.

There are probably more important things to get your knickers in a knot about - like the prices, for example.

Canis Lupus

Small price to pay for all the benefits male privilege grants us.

I tend to prefer female tenants because they look after the house better. Whenever I get in men as tenants, the costs to repair the place after they move out are usually higher than if I had a female tenant. I've also had guys skip out without paying rent but it hasn't happened (yet) with women. I wouldn't mind a mixed group of genders but usually I get individuals looking for places rather than people who already know each other.

It's not discrimination. It's a matter of experience with the rental market. It comes down to costs.

76544567

When I was interviewing people for letting I always had a hierarchy for different things.

When it came to male / female, Female > Male for many reasons that I gathered over time.

pilly

I've seen ads that say men only so it goes both ways.

Canis Lupus

pilly wrote: »

I've seen ads that say men only so it goes both ways.

Only time I've ever seen that it usually has something like gay friendly household written somewhere else in the advert.

76544567

76544567 wrote:

When it came to male / female, Female > Male for many reasons that I gathered over time.

So it's ok to generalise a gender because of a couple of anecdotal experiences? Would it be ok to do that with women coming out worse off or with people of different races?

Deleted User wrote:

It's not discrimination. It's a matter of experience with the rental market. It comes down to costs.

It's discrimination based on your personal experience. Which, if that's what you want to do then knock yourself out, but just don't claim you aren't discriminating

Canis Lupus wrote:

Small price to pay for all the benefits male privilege grants us.

I will assume (and hope) you are being sarcastic

Your Face

I'm outraged because this could potentially affect me.

skankkuvhima

pilly wrote: »

I've seen ads that say men only so it goes both ways.

How many say that vs how many say women only?

I just went to daft. I picked the first 10 house shares. 3 say women only, 7 say men or women, 0 say men only.

quadrifoglio verde

Women are less open to sharing with men. Probably because we're men. We smell, we're not great at cleaning and you can understand why they might have some concerns if a man wanted to rent in an all girl house.

Men are more open to sharing with women, because they're women. They clean up better, nice to look at and are quite willing to set you up with their single female friends

Grayson

OP, are you offended by all the non smoker adverts too?

The J Stands for Jay

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Women are less open to sharing with men. Probably because we're men

Men are more open to sharing with women, because they're women. They clean up better, nice to look at and are quite willing to set you up with their single female friends

But they hog the bathroom, leave it in a state, never wash their dishes and say putting out the bins is a man's job.

Brego888

In my extensive renting career of over a decade I've found men to be easier to live with, cleaner and less drama than women.

skankkuvhima

From the first 50 house shares in Dublin city on daft

4 say men only
15 say women only
31 say men or women

If my maths are correct men have access to 70% of the house shares in Dublin, women have access to 92%

quadrifoglio verde

McGaggs wrote: »

But they hog the bathroom, leave it in a state, never wash their dishes and say putting out the bins is a man's job.

I find leaving the seat up helps stop that.
They do make a mean cup of tea in return for putting out bins.
I refuse to do "man" jobs for my feminist friends. I have been known to mow the lawn, test fire alarms, bleed radiators and change bulbs for my non feminist female friends though in return for baked goods and tea

BlinkingLights

Is there an exemption under the Equal Status Act, or is this just overlooked discrimination?

skankkuvhima

Grayson wrote: »

OP, are you offended by all the non smoker adverts too?

Do you really equate smoking to

• gender
• marital status
• family status
• age
• race
• religion
• disability
• sexual orientation
• membership of the Traveller community

Or are you just being obtuse because a form of discrimination has been pointed out to you that you don't like. Would you be happy if the ads said "whites only"?

Grayson

Grayson wrote:

OP, are you offended by all the non smoker adverts too?

What has this got to do with anything?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

That specific discrimination kinda depends on the situation.

If it's a woman owner/occupier looking for a flatmate/tenant then some women just feel safer with only other women living there. Understandable, but still a bit discriminatory. Problem is, even if she can't say that, she's only going to pick another woman even if she interviews you for the room so there's not really much you can do about it.

If it's a guy looking for a flatmate/tenant and saying women only, creepy as **** - again, though, he might interview you but he's not going to choose you.

If it's a landlord who's not living there then discriminatory straight of the bat. That you can complain about.

Overall, it's a variation of a "dick tax" to quote a friend of mine.

There's others though: try looking for a flat when you're over 40, have a kid or a pet, smoke or work from home.

Grayson

BlinkingLights wrote: »

Is there an exemption under the Equal Status Act, or is this just overlooked discrimination?

I don't know. I know that you can't refuse to rent a property to someone based on gender etc but I have no idea if it's the same for finding a roommate.

I also think a lot of people here are mixing the two situations up because some people are referring to renting a whole property and some are talking about finding a roommate.

Grayson

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

If it's a guy looking for a flatmate/tenant and saying women only, creepy as **** - again, though, he might interview you but he's not going to choose you.

Do you remember a while back there was a post in the funny houses to let thread where a guy was looking for a female roommate to share a double bed with?

One eyed Jack

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Was recently looking to change my rental situation and with my budget and the area in question choice is limited to say the least. On daft.ie I was amazed at how many properties say women only. In a situation already limited and unless I get a sex change this discrimination makes it even harder to get somewhere. This to me should not be allowed. If the roles were reversed

You can't reverse the roles without reversing the stereotypical presumptions about people's behaviour, and before you pull me up on that -

womens groups be up in arms but because its men this misandry is somehow allowed.

You just made a biased presumption based on your own stereotypical impression of people's behaviour. So if you can do it, why do you think nobody else should do it?

Some properties only mention they want a female tenant after you enquire which limits the limited market even more. Others come across this nonsense?. Landlords should not be allowed to be biased based on sex.

Would you be making the same complaint about whom private landlords should and shouldn't be able to rent their private property to, if the roles were reversed?

BlinkingLights

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Women are less open to sharing with men. Probably because we're men. We smell, we're not great at cleaning and you can understand why they might have some concerns if a man wanted to rent in an all girl house.

Men are more open to sharing with women, because they're women. They clean up better, nice to look at and are quite willing to set you up with their single female friends

You've clearly got a rose tinted glasses version of women! Being a total slob is actually gender neutral. Both genders and probably gender fluid people are 100% capable of being horrible to live with.

I shared with two women and one smelled bad as she used to leave piles of dirty laundry and towels for weeks and didn't shower very often. She worked in a fairly physical job that didn't require much in the way of smelling nice.

Both of them left the bathroom in an absolute state all the time. Hairs in the sink, toothpaste splashed all over the mirror, make up everywhere.

One of them would even just takeoff her makeup with any random hand towel leaving brown stains all over it...At least I hope it was make up.

Then there was the throwing sanitary towels and tampons into the bathroom bin and never emptying it problem.

I lived with two lads and they smelled perfectly acceptable. Showered regularly. Cleaned the bathroom. Did laundry so their rooms actually smelled quite normal and probably even nice.

They'd share all the household chores, actually buy nice stuff specifically to share - beer, biscuits, tea bags etc and actually pleasant to live with.

We even would even cook everyone dinner once in a while.

So it's pot luck in my opinion.

Thelomen Toblackai

I've seen ads that say no women and met landlords that say women tenants in sharing situations are much more trouble than men.

Use more water, higher electricity usage with constant washer/dryer usage, hair dryer etc. And more inclined to fight and bicker with other tenants.

I don't think it's a case of anyone being discriminated against in general just different situations and landlords preferring different types of people.

BlinkingLights

Think you'll find making sweeping assumptions about someone based on their gender is pretty much the definition of discrimination.

I mean if you were making statements like that about say Irish people in Australia as an Australian landlord, you'd have absolute uproar.

jimgoose

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Women are less open to sharing with men. Probably because we're men. We smell, we're not great at cleaning and you can understand why they might have some concerns if a man wanted to rent in an all girl house...

Nonsense! In my experience girls in house-rentals are dirty, untidy, lazy little wagons. I myself am immaculately clean and tidy. Apart from the odd Tsar Bomba induced by a gallon of porter followed by an Indian takeaway... :pac:

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It's discrimination based on your personal experience. Which, if that's what you want to do then knock yourself out, but just don't claim you aren't discriminating

Yup. You're right. I am discriminating. Hadn't thought it as such before, but you got me thinking. Not going to change anything but.. fair point.

Stonedpilot

jimgoose wrote: »

Nonsense! In my experience girls in house-rentals are dirty, untidy, lazy little wagons. I myself am immaculately clean and tidy. Apart from the odd Tsar Bomba induced by a gallon of porter followed by an Indian takeaway... :pac:

Yep in my experience women can be far dirtier than men wont go into detail as the zealous politically correct bridage who seem to live on this forum be out with their pitchforks but Ive seen stuff that would turn the stomach of a hardened filthy slob by women. That myth that women are cleaner is just that, a myth.

Some have pointed out there are ads men only but these are in the small minority most discriminating ads discrimate against men only.

Thelomen Toblackai

BlinkingLights wrote: »

Think you'll find making sweeping assumptions about someone based on their gender is pretty much the definition of discrimination.

I mean if you were making statements like that about say Irish people in Australia as an Australian landlord, you'd have absolute uproar.

What if you made statements like that about men/women in Australia though ? Would there be uproar ?

Are people offended because they feel discriminated against or offended because someone else might be offended if this happened to some other group of people ?

People discriminate and generalise all the time. It doesn't mean the "market" is biased against one particular group. Landlords are looking for similar people to the previous or current good tenants they had. If theres 3 guys in their 20s already in a place chances are a 50 year old woman isn't going to blend in. Is that sexism and ageism?

Or is it just the way things are with landlords always going to pick a 20 something guy similar to the lads already there or people they've had experience with ? And is advertising that fact wrong or a time saver for themselves and others ?

The J Stands for Jay

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

I find leaving the seat up helps stop that.
They do make a mean cup of tea in return for putting out bins.
I refuse to do "man" jobs for my feminist friends. I have been known to mow the lawn, test fire alarms, bleed radiators and change bulbs for my non feminist female friends though in return for baked goods and tea

Their shenanigans with the toilet seat is disgusting. An entire gender who refuse to close the lid of the toilet just in case they have to look at the toilet and make necessary adjustments before slapping their arses down. Then they wonder why their toothbrush tastes of wee.

BlinkingLights

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

What if you made statements like that about men/women in Australia though ? Would there be uproar ?

Are people offended because they feel discriminated against or offended because someone else might be offended if this happened to some other group of people ?

People discriminate and generalise all the time. It doesn't mean the "market" is biased against one particular group. Landlords are looking for similar people to the previous or current good tenants they had. If theres 3 guys in their 20s already in a place chances are a 50 year old woman isn't going to blend in. Is that sexism and ageism?

Or is it just the way things are with landlords always going to pick a 20 something guy similar to the lads already there or people they've had experience with ? And is advertising that fact wrong or a time saver for themselves and others ?

People said exactly the same about why they wouldn't hire women for jobs in the 1960s. I remember reading EXACTLY the same logic for why an incredibly talented sound engineer and practically the mother of modern electronic music couldn't get a job in a recording studio because you know ... "She wouldn't fit in"...

BlinkingLights

McGaggs wrote: »

Their shenanigans with the toilet seat is disgusting. An entire gender who refuse to close the lid of the toilet just in case they have to look at the toilet and make necessary adjustments before slapping their arses down. Then they wonder why their toothbrush tastes of wee.

Leaving the seat up is an American problem due to their quirky approach to plumbing and inexplicable preference for high fill toilets that have water up near the rim.

Lifting the seat is more polite as it avoids splashing!

Samuel T. Cogley

The Equal Status Act is thought not to apply to house-shares. I don't know if this has actually been tested. The issue with applying it is when it's Rent a Room (RAR) you'd be forcing a homeowner to live with someone they they don't want. Now one could say don't rent then, but actually that's the problem, many would not, reducing supply.

Where this becomes a bit of a sticky wicket is where the house in NOT owner occupied. Unless there is a primary tenant who is subletting the rental DOES fall under the Equal Status Act so complain away. (i.e. everyone in the house is a tenant for the purposes of the RTA).

Mr.Plough

My experience fwiw (I'm male):-

I've lived with:

2 women in an apartment
1 man and 1 woman in an apartment
1 man in an apartment
1 woman in an apartment
2 men in an apartment
3 women in a house

In my experience:-
Overall, men and women on average are as clean as each other.

Occurrence of drama/arguments was probably an even split. Arguments tended to be more 'explosive' with male tenants and resolved relatively quickly, while with women they were less explosive, but more drawn out with longer lasting tension.

On both occasions living in an all male household, we didn't get the deposit back and didn't argue this (we were however relatively young). All other occasions there were no issues.

Personally, if I was a landlord I would prefer women renting my property, but if I was a renter, I would prefer to live with men as the atmosphere has generally been more relaxed.

Arcade_Tryer

It's ridiculous that landlords are allowed to blatantly advertise their discrimination policy on daft.

If they want to discriminate in person when you inquire about the property, fine, it happens everyday in others aspects of life. But to be able to advertise their discrimination makes a mockery of the whole Yes Equality mantra this country was supposed to be buying into.

Samuel T. Cogley

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

It's ridiculous that landlords are allowed to blatantly advertise their discrimination policy on daft.

If they want to discriminate in person when you inquire about the property, fine, it happens everyday in others aspects of life. But to be able to advertise their discrimination makes a mockery of the whole Yes Equality mantra this country was supposed to be buying into.

Trying to get a room almost panic inducing at this stage. I would prefer to tell someone from the outset than them traipse all the way from where they are, which could be Kerry, just to be messed about that the viewing.

Samuel T. Cogley

Samuel T. Cogley wrote:

Trying to get a room almost panic inducing at this stage. I would prefer to tell someone from the outset than them traipse all the way from where they are, which could be Kerry, just to be messed about that the viewing.

If they had anecdotal evidence like has been stated previously in the thread that their experience with black people was that they were untidy, they didn't want to live with gays because they are "understandably" uneasy (as has been cited for women may not want to share with men)

So would it be ok for someone to put up an ad stating "no blacks/ no gays?

Mr.Plough

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

It's ridiculous that landlords are allowed to blatantly advertise their discrimination policy on daft.

If they want to discriminate in person when you inquire about the property, fine, it happens everyday in others aspects of life. But to be able to advertise their discrimination makes a mockery of the whole Yes Equality mantra this country was supposed to be buying into.

As a renter though, I rather they advertise their discrimination online as it saves me time.

osarusan

I just had a look on Daft - not at the accomodation shares/rooms for rent but at the properties for rent.

I searched for 'female' and got 7 hits. Then 'male' and got 10 - 7 of those were the 'female'.

In those 7 cases, 4 of them were from idiots advertising rooms rather than full properties.

1 was a bedsit at top of a property owned by the female landlord.

2 were apartments that said they 'would suit females'.

For the 3 ads that mentioned 'male', one was, again, a room in a house occupied by males. One was a bedsit that would 'suit a single male', and one was a tiny cottage out in Wicklow that is 'Ideal for male single person non smoker no pets strictly'.

Zebra3

Deleted User wrote: »

I tend to prefer female tenants because they look after the house better. Whenever I get in men as tenants, the costs to repair the place after they move out are usually higher than if I had a female tenant. I've also had guys skip out without paying rent but it hasn't happened (yet) with women. I wouldn't mind a mixed group of genders but usually I get individuals looking for places rather than people who already know each other.

It's not discrimination. It's a matter of experience with the rental market. It comes down to costs.

Replace female with white, men with black, and see how it goes.

LirW

In the current market let's face it:
Landlords can "discriminate" against men, families with young kids, families with old kids, pet-owners, tractor-owners, your mom, smokers, crossfitters, Civil servants, HAP-tenants etc.pp.
You also only have to give all of your private details including a medical record of yourself and the entire family to make sure you wouldn't suddenly pass because one marker in your nan's blood was suspicious. To get a bedsit for only 3000 euro a month.

That's the way it is at the moment unfortunately.

My partner's uncle has to move out of the house he lives in because his siblings want to sell it (was the family home of their parents). Even though he is a little bit lazy when it comes to the apartment hunt, it is more than difficult to find a place... also what houseshare would take a guy in his late 50s?

pilly

The way I look at is people discriminate in all kinds of ways on a daily basis. When it became illegal to advertise "no rent allowance" does anyone think that this actually forced a LL to take someone on rent allowance? No, they simply give the house to someone else.

To me it saves renters an awful lot of time if these restrictions are mentioned. At the end of the day LL's can not be forced to choose any tenant so regulation around is merely on paper anyway.

However, if everyone who is ever offended by anything complains the only difference it will cause is renters wasting huge amounts of time.

H3llR4iser

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Women are less open to sharing with men...

...Men are more open to sharing with women...

The quoted, in a nutshell - it's most likely a matter of probability, more or less along these lines:

Share with female tenant(s) only - looking for Women Only;
Share with both female and male tenant(s) - looking for Women or Men;
Share with male tenant(s) only - looking for Women or Men;

As for the reasons, frankly there are plenty - some quirkier than others. That said, back when I was sharing I also ran in a couple of all-female house shares in Dublin looking specifically for a guy; Granted, talking to them they were more or less looking for a rent-paying, resident handyman rather than a flatmate, but still

When it comes to renting a house/apartment alone, I can't say I've met any trouble due to the appendage between my legs; Actually one or two landlords clearly stated they'd prefer to rent to a single, working man rather than a young family with small kids etc.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Overall, it's a variation of a "dick tax" to quote a friend of mine.

The "dick tax" made my day - I may steal this quote every now and then

Samuel T. Cogley

Deleted User wrote: »

If they had anecdotal evidence like has been stated previously in the thread that their experience with black people was that they were untidy, they didn't want to live with gays because they are "understandably" uneasy (as has been cited for women may not want to share with men)

So would it be ok for someone to put up an ad stating "no blacks/ no gays?

Gay friendly houses frequently advertise as such. Other legislation and Daft's (or similar) polices may catch you out with the no blacks thing. However I'd prefer to know you were a racist asshat before wasting my time tbh. (Not that you are I know you're only citing an example).

But we're not talking about sexuality or colour, we're talking about sex, and it's not unusual for a house full of girls to want another girl. Common sense has to occationally give way to being PC.

__Alex__

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Was recently looking to change my rental situation and with my budget and the area in question choice is limited to say the least. On daft.ie I was amazed at how many properties say women only. In a situation already limited and unless I get a sex change this discrimination makes it even harder to get somewhere. This to me should not be allowed. If the roles were reversed womens groups be up in arms but because its men this misandry is somehow allowed. Some properties only mention they want a female tenant after you enquire which limits the limited market even more. Others come across this nonsense?. Landlords should not be allowed to be biased based on sex .

Wow, shoehorned in in the first post of the thread. Impressive. I've seen male-only ads. Strangely no "women's groups" up in arms. Specifying a gender preference actually does go against equality legislation so anyone explicitly mentioning it in an ad is daft, but of course it happens anyway.

tuisginideach

Deleted User wrote: »

I tend to prefer female tenants because they look after the house better. Whenever I get in men as tenants, the costs to repair the place after they move out are usually higher than if I had a female tenant. I've also had guys skip out without paying rent but it hasn't happened (yet) with women. I wouldn't mind a mixed group of genders but usually I get individuals looking for places rather than people who already know each other.

It's not discrimination. It's a matter of experience with the rental market. It comes down to costs.

I find the absolute opposite - over the past 15 years my Irish male (student) tenants are far cleaner, more pleasant, less hassle and 100% more truthful than the Irish female student tenants I have had. Would never rent to a house of female students again.