Is Ireland really a nation of animal lovers?

JupiterKid · 28-03-2017 12:19AM #1

I've heard that Ireland doesn't have great form historically when it comes to animal welfare. I've also heard that animal cruelty and neglect cases have been decreasing in the past 20 years but that these rates were appalling in the 1970s and 1980s. Why is this? The UK is known as a nation of animal lovers. Is this true? Are we playing catch up?

There was a brief debate on vegansim on Claire Byrne live this evening and there was some voiceriferous support for veganism but not that much to back up their claims.

Thoughts?

osarusan · 28-03-2017 12:27AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

The UK is known as a nation of animal lovers.

I've never heard that.

I'd say you'd find roughly the same ratio of pet lovers and animal abuse/neglect as you would in Ireland - maybe in any other first world country.

Cupcake_Crisis · 28-03-2017 12:34AM

I wouldn't say we're animal lovers, but we're not the absolute worst in terms in terms of animal welfare. Our laws or horribly lax, but the average Joe on the street would never harm an animal.

Noveight · 28-03-2017 12:38AM

Is any nation really a nation of animal lovers? I know certain religions have their leanings, like the cow to Hindu's, but no one countries population stands out in my mind as exceedingly animal loving. Interesting thought, mind.

Beyondgone · 28-03-2017 12:42AM

We're mad into the bacon. I don't think the pig world regards Eire as too friendly. Or the beef world, given the love for roast. The French poodle/bulldog world is probably unsure - 50/50 at best.

28-03-2017 12:48AM

You notice a huge difference in how dogs are treated in Ireland versus some places in Europe, where it's common to see dogs in restaurants and on public transport

the_pen_turner · 28-03-2017 12:55AM

we are faily good

look at the way our cattle are cared for compared to the huge factory farms in america and middle east . they have thousands of cattle in a pen and feed them at a rail . they can barely walk around .

how about loads of countries where they are in sheds all year round and the grass is brought in . its more efficient that way

look at our pets. vast majority are treated like children, maybe even bordering on cruilty with kindnesss

look at donkeys , pet here, slave in other countries hauling loads up mountains .

JupiterKid · 28-03-2017 01:03AM

I've heard it said that the poorer, more rural and agricultural a country is, the less likely it is to be concerned with animal welfare. And the more developed and urbanised it is, the more animals are well cared for. But I'm sure many countries buck that general trend. I wouldn't consider rapidly developing China as a nation of animal lovers, given that some Chinese consider dogs and cats a delicacy.

Ireland has definitely hugely improved in animal welfare compared to 30 or 50 years ago. Perhaps that has happened as we have become more urbanised, wealthier and better educated.

However, I think you can over-pamper your pets, treating them like children etc.

Jack the Stripper · 28-03-2017 01:05AM

No I don't love animals.

Thelomen Toblackai · 28-03-2017 01:21AM

Ireland is heavily dependent on farming and the meat industry with blood sports such as hare coursing, fox hunting etc very popular.

I'm sure a lot of people think they're animal lovers because they like cats and dogs and don't care about anything else. But the reality is as a country we're pretty bad when it comes to animal abuse. In fact the country and people seem to thrive on it.

Lady Haywire · 28-03-2017 01:27AM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

we are faily good

look at the way our cattle are cared for compared to the huge factory farms in america and middle east . they have thousands of cattle in a pen and feed them at a rail . they can barely walk around .

how about loads of countries where they are in sheds all year round and the grass is brought in . its more efficient that way
look at donkeys , pet here, slave in other countries hauling loads up mountains .

Some farms are getting like that though, Larry & co having huge sheds full of contract beef ready to slaughter when needed so can turn the beef price up or down at will.
Zero-grazing is the term for taking the grass into cattle, I'm afraid that's also used here now too, on land that's easily poached by cattle tramping round it in weather.
I've seen a lot of donkeys badly cared for too, people buying them as pets for a half acre out the back during celtic tiger years and not giving a damn about it after, state of some rescued donkeys hooves :eek:

You're going to get extremes of both everywhere though, people who would take in any abandoned animal they can manage & people who will throw pups out of cars. I can't understand people who have no empathy towards animals, there's something so comforting about sharing a bond with something that can't speak your language but trusts you as a person regardless. We're definitely getting better at animal welfare, but it's a long, slow process.

The_Valeyard · 28-03-2017 01:27AM

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

But the reality is as a country we're pretty bad when it comes to animal abuse. In fact the country and people seem to thrive on it.

That's a load of nonsense

PARlance · 28-03-2017 01:31AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

I've heard that Ireland doesn't have great form historically when it comes to animal welfare. I've also heard that animal cruelty and neglect cases have been decreasing in the past 20 years but that these rates were appalling in the 1970s and 1980s. Why is this? The UK is known as a nation of animal lovers. Is this true? Are we playing catch up?

There was a brief debate on vegansim on Claire Byrne live this evening and there was some voiceriferous support for veganism but not that much to back up their claims.

Thoughts?

I love steak and puppies.

(Only messing, not a fan of dogs)

Yourself isit · 28-03-2017 01:36AM

I very rarely agree with the anti irish sentiment or the "only in Ireland" sentiment often expressed here. It's often stuff that could happen anywhere.

In this case though I believe we do have a class that is hostile and cruel to animals. Either theres more animal cruelty reported here or we engage in more of it compared to the UK. Just yesterday a pony waa deliberately drowned in Kilkenny.

In terms of dogs tge English bring them into pubs. Very common.

Thelomen Toblackai · 28-03-2017 01:36AM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

That's a load of nonsense

Looking at your post history of worthless one line responses I'll assume that's the most intelligent thing we'll get from you.

So thanks for your response but unfortunately you've failed to convince me.

me_right_one · 28-03-2017 02:03AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ireland has definitely hugely improved in animal welfare compared to 30 or 50 years ago. Perhaps that has happened as we have become more urbanised, wealthier and better educated.

This is one of the most clueless, ignorant, and patronizing things I have ever read on Boards.ie.

Have you ever heard of the REPS scheme, where wildlife are specifically given protected strips of land at the farmers expense? Or the Bovine TB eradication scheme, where cattle are treated better than people in some poorer countries by having annual tests for TB and various other diseases? Incidentally, that scheme was started 60 years ago. I bet you've no idea about the hundreds of horse and donkey shelters up and down the country either, ran by thousands volunteers purely to give a comfortable life to old and ownerless horses and donkeys. Or the Traceability system that ensures there has to be a responsible human at the end of the line for every farm animals life, who has to be able to vouch for every incident in that animals life from conception to slaughter, whether it be a medical visit, a change of shed or field, or a day out at a show.

Ireland has one of the BEST animal rights records in the world. We are held up as a shining example among other EU countries. The irony is that our people are not treated as well as our animals. If a cow falls pregnant and cant/wont accept the calf, we have the technology to implant the calf into a willing cow, but if that was a perfectly healthy pro-abortion woman with a perfectly healthy baby, she would rather kill it. And you will NEVER find a homeless domesticated animal wandering around sleeping in doorways.

But of course, I'm not that wealthy and from the country. So I must also be uneducated and cruel to animals. What would I know:rolleyes:

endacl · 28-03-2017 02:06AM

riffmongous wrote: »

You notice a huge difference in how dogs are treated in Ireland versus some places in Europe, where it's common to see dogs in restaurants and on public transport

If a dog isn't replacing a white stick, it has no place in a restaurant.

endacl · 28-03-2017 02:07AM

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

Looking at your post history of worthless one line responses I'll assume that's the most intelligent thing we'll get from you.

So thanks for your response but unfortunately you've failed to convince me.

I dunno. Made sense to me.

Thelomen Toblackai · 28-03-2017 02:16AM

me_right_one wrote: »

This is one of the most clueless, ignorant, and patronizing things I have ever read on Boards.ie.

where cattle are treated better than people in some poorer countries by having annual tests for TB and various other diseases?

who has to be able to vouch for every incident in that animals life from conception to slaughter

The irony is that our people are not treated as well as our animals. If a cow falls pregnant and cant/wont accept the calf, we have the technology to implant the calf into a willing cow, but if that was a perfectly healthy pro-abortion woman with a perfectly healthy baby, she would rather kill it.

You think animals are treated better than humans because they're kept healthy until they're slaughtered ?

Talking about forcefully implanting calfs into cows for profit as if it's treating the animals well and then using that as a means to attack abortion because some people would "rather kill a healthy baby" than be treated like livestock ?

Thelomen Toblackai · 28-03-2017 02:16AM

endacl wrote: »

I dunno. Made sense to me.

He must be speaking your language so...

JupiterKid · 28-03-2017 02:51AM

me_right_one wrote: »

This is one of the most clueless, ignorant, and patronizing things I have ever read on Boards.ie.

Have you ever heard of the REPS scheme, where wildlife are specifically given protected strips of land at the farmers expense? Or the Bovine TB eradication scheme, where cattle are treated better than people in some poorer countries by having annual tests for TB and various other diseases? Incidentally, that scheme was started 60 years ago. I bet you've no idea about the hundreds of horse and donkey shelters up and down the country either, ran by thousands volunteers purely to give a comfortable life to old and ownerless horses and donkeys. Or the Traceability system that ensures there has to be a responsible human at the end of the line for every farm animals life, who has to be able to vouch for every incident in that animals life from conception to slaughter, whether it be a medical visit, a change of shed or field, or a day out at a show.

Ireland has one of the BEST animal rights records in the world. We are held up as a shining example among other EU countries. The irony is that our people are not treated as well as our animals. If a cow falls pregnant and cant/wont accept the calf, we have the technology to implant the calf into a willing cow, but if that was a perfectly healthy pro-abortion woman with a perfectly healthy baby, she would rather kill it. And you will NEVER find a homeless domesticated animal wandering around sleeping in doorways.

But of course, I'm not that wealthy and from the country. So I must also be uneducated and cruel to animals. What would I know:rolleyes:

Ah yes, I knew I would get a knee jerk reaction from someone.:rolleyes: I have read a couple of books on animal welfare and they ALL point to a trend where animal welfare and the level of urbanisation and development of a country are positively correlated.

Why the need to be so defensive? Did I actually opine that rural Ireland was cruel to animals? No, I did not. Perhaps read my posts before going into hyper-reaction mode.

And Ireland does not have one of the best records in terms of animal welfare. Battery chicken farming, live transport of cattle, sheep and pigs, fox hunting and hare coursing are still widespread, as is the abandonment of animals. We are improving but IMO still have some way to go.

As for dragging the abortion issue into this thread - well, that's just bizarre.

Graces7 · 28-03-2017 06:20AM

Ireland? Animal welfare? You joking?

Ah go on with ye..

words there are none.. well there are but even on AH....

28-03-2017 06:31AM

endacl wrote: »

If a dog isn't replacing a white stick, it has no place in a restaurant.

Why not?

jooksavage · 28-03-2017 07:07AM

I think we're not terrible, definitely improving. I'm a farmer. Recently finished a green cert and I was heartened by the emphasis placed on humane handling, animal welfare and stress-minimisation. The rougher cowboys on the course were rebuked by their classmates and instructors. There's always gonna be some assholes who need to be kept in line by threat of prosecution by the "cruelty man" but most of the farmers I know, young and old, want happy, healthy livestock.

People who fundamentally oppose eating meat won't agree - thats ok: it's not like there's a concensus among farmers either. I think there are still areas that need improvement. I'm not a fan of the intensive pig and poultry operations - margins are low and these models are the only way to break even. That's the consequence of the €3 chicken. I hate fox hunting and have denied the the local hunts permission to use our lands. This is very common now (admittedly it has more to do with protecting land and fencing than the fox). The most visible offenders down here are some members (not all) of travelling community. My off-farm job is across the road from a halting site and its filled with emaciated horses and dogs. Only last year, 2 horses were impaled on the railing around the site. Another was hit by a lorry. The dozen or so tethered there at the moment are skin and bone. Maybe some eduction should be required as a prerequisite to owning animals.

big b · 28-03-2017 07:38AM

I think Irish farmers in general do a fantastic job on animal welfare - the proof is in their success.

But when it comes to pets, there are shocking stories such as the one above where a pony was deliberately drowned ffs

At the end of the tiger days, you couldn't drive down a country road without seeing horses & donkeys either starving to death in fields or roaming wild, having had their gates left open.

Also, only my own observation, but the amount of domestic animals you see as roadkill seems way more than I've seen in most countries. Is it drivers not giving a sh*t or is it that Irish owners are happy to let their dogs wander free? Maybe a bit of both.

Thankfully, there's a lot more good people than bad & the various sanctuaries & shelters do a fantastic job.

I'm just surprised & disappointed that we don't do much better.

Graces7 · 28-03-2017 07:43AM

big b wrote: »

I think Irish farmers in general do a fantastic job on animal welfare - the proof is in their success.

But when it comes to pets, there are shocking stories such as the one above where a pony was deliberately drowned ffs

At the end of the tiger days, you couldn't drive down a country road without seeing horses & donkeys either starving to death in fields or roaming wild, having had their gates left open.

Also, only my own observation, but the amount of domestic animals you see as roadkill seems way more than I've seen in most countries. Is it drivers not giving a sh*t or is it that Irish owners are happy to let their dogs wander free? Maybe a bit of both.

Thankfully, there's a lot more good people than bad & the various sanctuaries & shelters do a fantastic job.

I'm just surprised & disappointed that we don't do much better.

Totally the owners. Hence the number of car chasing dogs that are on rural roads. and cats are of course to be kept outside as are dogs .

The_Valeyard · 28-03-2017 09:32AM

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

Looking at your post history of worthless one line responses I'll assume that's the most intelligent thing we'll get from you.

So thanks for your response but unfortunately you've failed to convince me.

Edgy.

Wish I was that cool.

biko · 28-03-2017 09:46AM

"I heard" isn't cutting it OP.

Fact checking and sources cuts it.

Knine · 28-03-2017 09:59AM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

we are faily good

look at the way our cattle are cared for compared to the huge factory farms in america and middle east . they have thousands of cattle in a pen and feed them at a rail . they can barely walk around .

how about loads of countries where they are in sheds all year round and the grass is brought in . its more efficient that way

look at our pets. vast majority are treated like children, maybe even bordering on cruilty with kindnesss

look at donkeys , pet here, slave in other countries hauling loads up mountains .

Or look at our puppy farms? We are known as the puppy farm capital. A licence has just been granted for a huge 350 dog farm in Cavan.

Or try to take a dog on a bus, train or into a restaurant.

Or look out your window to see wandering dogs, crapping everywhere, playing with traffic & mauling Livestock.

We have a long way to go to improve things. People convicted of animal cruelty get a slap on the wrist & sent on their way.

wakka12 · 28-03-2017 10:15AM

What makes you think brits are animal lovers?? like Ive never heard anything that would support or go against that, just nothing about it tbh

Hans Bricks · 28-03-2017 10:26AM

Whatever about animal welfare, the attitude toward urban horses in Ireland is despicable.

How on Earth the local councils can just allow reams of horses to live out a miserable, sub standard existence on some kip council estate green to placate the local Jeremy kyle brigade at their beckoned call is beyond me. West Dublin has become terrible for it over the years.

Is Ireland really a nation of animal lovers?

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