Is Ireland really a nation of animal lovers?

JupiterKid

I've heard that Ireland doesn't have great form historically when it comes to animal welfare. I've also heard that animal cruelty and neglect cases have been decreasing in the past 20 years but that these rates were appalling in the 1970s and 1980s. Why is this? The UK is known as a nation of animal lovers. Is this true? Are we playing catch up?

There was a brief debate on vegansim on Claire Byrne live this evening and there was some voiceriferous support for veganism but not that much to back up their claims.

Thoughts?

osarusan

JupiterKid wrote: »

The UK is known as a nation of animal lovers.

I've never heard that.

I'd say you'd find roughly the same ratio of pet lovers and animal abuse/neglect as you would in Ireland - maybe in any other first world country.

Cupcake_Crisis

I wouldn't say we're animal lovers, but we're not the absolute worst in terms in terms of animal welfare. Our laws or horribly lax, but the average Joe on the street would never harm an animal.

Noveight

Is any nation really a nation of animal lovers? I know certain religions have their leanings, like the cow to Hindu's, but no one countries population stands out in my mind as exceedingly animal loving. Interesting thought, mind.

Beyondgone

We're mad into the bacon. I don't think the pig world regards Eire as too friendly. Or the beef world, given the love for roast. The French poodle/bulldog world is probably unsure - 50/50 at best.

riffmongous

You notice a huge difference in how dogs are treated in Ireland versus some places in Europe, where it's common to see dogs in restaurants and on public transport

the_pen_turner

we are faily good

look at the way our cattle are cared for compared to the huge factory farms in america and middle east . they have thousands of cattle in a pen and feed them at a rail . they can barely walk around .

how about loads of countries where they are in sheds all year round and the grass is brought in . its more efficient that way

look at our pets. vast majority are treated like children, maybe even bordering on cruilty with kindnesss


look at donkeys , pet here, slave in other countries hauling loads up mountains .

JupiterKid

I've heard it said that the poorer, more rural and agricultural a country is, the less likely it is to be concerned with animal welfare. And the more developed and urbanised it is, the more animals are well cared for. But I'm sure many countries buck that general trend. I wouldn't consider rapidly developing China as a nation of animal lovers, given that some Chinese consider dogs and cats a delicacy.

Ireland has definitely hugely improved in animal welfare compared to 30 or 50 years ago. Perhaps that has happened as we have become more urbanised, wealthier and better educated.

However, I think you can over-pamper your pets, treating them like children etc.

Jack the Stripper

No I don't love animals.

Thelomen Toblackai

Ireland is heavily dependent on farming and the meat industry with blood sports such as hare coursing, fox hunting etc very popular.

I'm sure a lot of people think they're animal lovers because they like cats and dogs and don't care about anything else. But the reality is as a country we're pretty bad when it comes to animal abuse. In fact the country and people seem to thrive on it.

Lady Haywire

the_pen_turner wrote: »

we are faily good

look at the way our cattle are cared for compared to the huge factory farms in america and middle east . they have thousands of cattle in a pen and feed them at a rail . they can barely walk around .

how about loads of countries where they are in sheds all year round and the grass is brought in . its more efficient that way
look at donkeys , pet here, slave in other countries hauling loads up mountains .

Some farms are getting like that though, Larry & co having huge sheds full of contract beef ready to slaughter when needed so can turn the beef price up or down at will.
Zero-grazing is the term for taking the grass into cattle, I'm afraid that's also used here now too, on land that's easily poached by cattle tramping round it in weather.
I've seen a lot of donkeys badly cared for too, people buying them as pets for a half acre out the back during celtic tiger years and not giving a damn about it after, state of some rescued donkeys hooves :eek:

You're going to get extremes of both everywhere though, people who would take in any abandoned animal they can manage & people who will throw pups out of cars. I can't understand people who have no empathy towards animals, there's something so comforting about sharing a bond with something that can't speak your language but trusts you as a person regardless. We're definitely getting better at animal welfare, but it's a long, slow process.

The_Valeyard

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

But the reality is as a country we're pretty bad when it comes to animal abuse. In fact the country and people seem to thrive on it.

That's a load of nonsense

PARlance

JupiterKid wrote: »

I've heard that Ireland doesn't have great form historically when it comes to animal welfare. I've also heard that animal cruelty and neglect cases have been decreasing in the past 20 years but that these rates were appalling in the 1970s and 1980s. Why is this? The UK is known as a nation of animal lovers. Is this true? Are we playing catch up?

There was a brief debate on vegansim on Claire Byrne live this evening and there was some voiceriferous support for veganism but not that much to back up their claims.

Thoughts?

I love steak and puppies.





(Only messing, not a fan of dogs)

Yourself isit

I very rarely agree with the anti irish sentiment or the "only in Ireland" sentiment often expressed here. It's often stuff that could happen anywhere.

In this case though I believe we do have a class that is hostile and cruel to animals. Either theres more animal cruelty reported here or we engage in more of it compared to the UK. Just yesterday a pony waa deliberately drowned in Kilkenny.

In terms of dogs tge English bring them into pubs. Very common.

Thelomen Toblackai

The_Valeyard wrote: »

That's a load of nonsense

Looking at your post history of worthless one line responses I'll assume that's the most intelligent thing we'll get from you.

So thanks for your response but unfortunately you've failed to convince me.

me_right_one

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ireland has definitely hugely improved in animal welfare compared to 30 or 50 years ago. Perhaps that has happened as we have become more urbanised, wealthier and better educated.

This is one of the most clueless, ignorant, and patronizing things I have ever read on Boards.ie.

Have you ever heard of the REPS scheme, where wildlife are specifically given protected strips of land at the farmers expense? Or the Bovine TB eradication scheme, where cattle are treated better than people in some poorer countries by having annual tests for TB and various other diseases? Incidentally, that scheme was started 60 years ago. I bet you've no idea about the hundreds of horse and donkey shelters up and down the country either, ran by thousands volunteers purely to give a comfortable life to old and ownerless horses and donkeys. Or the Traceability system that ensures there has to be a responsible human at the end of the line for every farm animals life, who has to be able to vouch for every incident in that animals life from conception to slaughter, whether it be a medical visit, a change of shed or field, or a day out at a show.

Ireland has one of the BEST animal rights records in the world. We are held up as a shining example among other EU countries. The irony is that our people are not treated as well as our animals. If a cow falls pregnant and cant/wont accept the calf, we have the technology to implant the calf into a willing cow, but if that was a perfectly healthy pro-abortion woman with a perfectly healthy baby, she would rather kill it. And you will NEVER find a homeless domesticated animal wandering around sleeping in doorways.

But of course, I'm not that wealthy and from the country. So I must also be uneducated and cruel to animals. What would I know:rolleyes:

endacl

riffmongous wrote: »

You notice a huge difference in how dogs are treated in Ireland versus some places in Europe, where it's common to see dogs in restaurants and on public transport

If a dog isn't replacing a white stick, it has no place in a restaurant.

endacl

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

Looking at your post history of worthless one line responses I'll assume that's the most intelligent thing we'll get from you.

So thanks for your response but unfortunately you've failed to convince me.

I dunno. Made sense to me.

Thelomen Toblackai

me_right_one wrote: »

This is one of the most clueless, ignorant, and patronizing things I have ever read on Boards.ie.

where cattle are treated better than people in some poorer countries by having annual tests for TB and various other diseases?

who has to be able to vouch for every incident in that animals life from conception to slaughter

The irony is that our people are not treated as well as our animals. If a cow falls pregnant and cant/wont accept the calf, we have the technology to implant the calf into a willing cow, but if that was a perfectly healthy pro-abortion woman with a perfectly healthy baby, she would rather kill it.

You think animals are treated better than humans because they're kept healthy until they're slaughtered ?

Talking about forcefully implanting calfs into cows for profit as if it's treating the animals well and then using that as a means to attack abortion because some people would "rather kill a healthy baby" than be treated like livestock ?

Thelomen Toblackai

endacl wrote: »

I dunno. Made sense to me.

He must be speaking your language so...

JupiterKid

me_right_one wrote: »

This is one of the most clueless, ignorant, and patronizing things I have ever read on Boards.ie.

Have you ever heard of the REPS scheme, where wildlife are specifically given protected strips of land at the farmers expense? Or the Bovine TB eradication scheme, where cattle are treated better than people in some poorer countries by having annual tests for TB and various other diseases? Incidentally, that scheme was started 60 years ago. I bet you've no idea about the hundreds of horse and donkey shelters up and down the country either, ran by thousands volunteers purely to give a comfortable life to old and ownerless horses and donkeys. Or the Traceability system that ensures there has to be a responsible human at the end of the line for every farm animals life, who has to be able to vouch for every incident in that animals life from conception to slaughter, whether it be a medical visit, a change of shed or field, or a day out at a show.

Ireland has one of the BEST animal rights records in the world. We are held up as a shining example among other EU countries. The irony is that our people are not treated as well as our animals. If a cow falls pregnant and cant/wont accept the calf, we have the technology to implant the calf into a willing cow, but if that was a perfectly healthy pro-abortion woman with a perfectly healthy baby, she would rather kill it. And you will NEVER find a homeless domesticated animal wandering around sleeping in doorways.

But of course, I'm not that wealthy and from the country. So I must also be uneducated and cruel to animals. What would I know:rolleyes:

Ah yes, I knew I would get a knee jerk reaction from someone.:rolleyes: I have read a couple of books on animal welfare and they ALL point to a trend where animal welfare and the level of urbanisation and development of a country are positively correlated.

Why the need to be so defensive? Did I actually opine that rural Ireland was cruel to animals? No, I did not. Perhaps read my posts before going into hyper-reaction mode.

And Ireland does not have one of the best records in terms of animal welfare. Battery chicken farming, live transport of cattle, sheep and pigs, fox hunting and hare coursing are still widespread, as is the abandonment of animals. We are improving but IMO still have some way to go.

As for dragging the abortion issue into this thread - well, that's just bizarre.

Graces7

Ireland? Animal welfare? You joking?

Ah go on with ye..

words there are none.. well there are but even on AH....

riffmongous

endacl wrote: »

If a dog isn't replacing a white stick, it has no place in a restaurant.

Why not?

jooksavage

I think we're not terrible, definitely improving. I'm a farmer. Recently finished a green cert and I was heartened by the emphasis placed on humane handling, animal welfare and stress-minimisation. The rougher cowboys on the course were rebuked by their classmates and instructors. There's always gonna be some assholes who need to be kept in line by threat of prosecution by the "cruelty man" but most of the farmers I know, young and old, want happy, healthy livestock.

People who fundamentally oppose eating meat won't agree - thats ok: it's not like there's a concensus among farmers either. I think there are still areas that need improvement. I'm not a fan of the intensive pig and poultry operations - margins are low and these models are the only way to break even. That's the consequence of the €3 chicken. I hate fox hunting and have denied the the local hunts permission to use our lands. This is very common now (admittedly it has more to do with protecting land and fencing than the fox). The most visible offenders down here are some members (not all) of travelling community. My off-farm job is across the road from a halting site and its filled with emaciated horses and dogs. Only last year, 2 horses were impaled on the railing around the site. Another was hit by a lorry. The dozen or so tethered there at the moment are skin and bone. Maybe some eduction should be required as a prerequisite to owning animals.

big b

I think Irish farmers in general do a fantastic job on animal welfare - the proof is in their success.

But when it comes to pets, there are shocking stories such as the one above where a pony was deliberately drowned ffs

At the end of the tiger days, you couldn't drive down a country road without seeing horses & donkeys either starving to death in fields or roaming wild, having had their gates left open.

Also, only my own observation, but the amount of domestic animals you see as roadkill seems way more than I've seen in most countries. Is it drivers not giving a sh*t or is it that Irish owners are happy to let their dogs wander free? Maybe a bit of both.

Thankfully, there's a lot more good people than bad & the various sanctuaries & shelters do a fantastic job.

I'm just surprised & disappointed that we don't do much better.

Graces7

big b wrote: »

I think Irish farmers in general do a fantastic job on animal welfare - the proof is in their success.

But when it comes to pets, there are shocking stories such as the one above where a pony was deliberately drowned ffs

At the end of the tiger days, you couldn't drive down a country road without seeing horses & donkeys either starving to death in fields or roaming wild, having had their gates left open.

Also, only my own observation, but the amount of domestic animals you see as roadkill seems way more than I've seen in most countries. Is it drivers not giving a sh*t or is it that Irish owners are happy to let their dogs wander free? Maybe a bit of both.

Thankfully, there's a lot more good people than bad & the various sanctuaries & shelters do a fantastic job.

I'm just surprised & disappointed that we don't do much better.

Totally the owners. Hence the number of car chasing dogs that are on rural roads. and cats are of course to be kept outside as are dogs .

The_Valeyard

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

Looking at your post history of worthless one line responses I'll assume that's the most intelligent thing we'll get from you.

So thanks for your response but unfortunately you've failed to convince me.

Edgy.

Wish I was that cool.

biko

"I heard" isn't cutting it OP.

Fact checking and sources cuts it.

Knine

the_pen_turner wrote: »

we are faily good

look at the way our cattle are cared for compared to the huge factory farms in america and middle east . they have thousands of cattle in a pen and feed them at a rail . they can barely walk around .

how about loads of countries where they are in sheds all year round and the grass is brought in . its more efficient that way

look at our pets. vast majority are treated like children, maybe even bordering on cruilty with kindnesss


look at donkeys , pet here, slave in other countries hauling loads up mountains .

Or look at our puppy farms? We are known as the puppy farm capital. A licence has just been granted for a huge 350 dog farm in Cavan.

Or try to take a dog on a bus, train or into a restaurant.

Or look out your window to see wandering dogs, crapping everywhere, playing with traffic & mauling Livestock.

We have a long way to go to improve things. People convicted of animal cruelty get a slap on the wrist & sent on their way.

wakka12

What makes you think brits are animal lovers?? like Ive never heard anything that would support or go against that, just nothing about it tbh

Hans Bricks

Whatever about animal welfare, the attitude toward urban horses in Ireland is despicable.

How on Earth the local councils can just allow reams of horses to live out a miserable, sub standard existence on some kip council estate green to placate the local Jeremy kyle brigade at their beckoned call is beyond me. West Dublin has become terrible for it over the years.

the_pen_turner

Has anyone got an article on the urban v rural. People are saying urban has less cruelty.
I don't believe that.

You will get sick people in both.

Some of the cruelest things in den are in towns and villages.
Look at all those horses. Dogs wandering estates looking in bins for food.
A lot of cruelty is done by animal lovers.
Locking their dogs and cats in all day. Can't get out to clean them selves, stuck in all that heat, can't run around . That's pure cruelty.

chicorytip

Bambi985 wrote:

Seeing clips everywhere from his "Being Mum and Dad" documentary about life after the death of his wife that will be airing on BBC tonight.

JupiterKid wrote:

I've heard that Ireland doesn't have great form historically when it comes to animal welfare. I've also heard that animal cruelty and neglect cases have been decreasing in the past 20 years but that these rates were appalling in the 1970s and 1980s. Why is this? The UK is known as a nation of animal lovers. Is this true? Are we playing catch up?

jooksavage wrote:

I think we're not terrible, definitely improving. I'm a farmer. Recently finished a green cert and I was heartened by the emphasis placed on humane handling, animal welfare and stress-minimisation. The rougher cowboys on the course were rebuked by their classmates and instructors. There's always gonna be some assholes who need to be kept in line by threat of prosecution by the "cruelty man" but most of the farmers I know, young and old, want happy, healthy livestock.

jooksavage wrote:

People who fundamentally oppose eating meat won't agree - thats ok: it's not like there's a concensus among farmers either. I think there are still areas that need improvement. I'm not a fan of the intensive pig and poultry operations - margins are low and these models are the only way to break even. That's the consequence of the €3 chicken. I hate fox hunting and have denied the the local hunts permission to use our lands. This is very common now (admittedly it has more to do with protecting land and fencing than the fox). The most visible offenders down here are some members (not all) of travelling community. My off-farm job is across the road from a halting site and its filled with emaciated horses and dogs. Only last year, 2 horses were impaled on the railing around the site. Another was hit by a lorry. The dozen or so tethered there at the moment are skin and bone. Maybe some eduction should be required as a prerequisite to owning animals.

jooksavage wrote:

People who fundamentally oppose eating meat won't agree - thats ok: it's not like there's a concensus among farmers either. I think there are still areas that need improvement. I'm not a fan of the intensive pig and poultry operations - margins are low and these models are the only way to break even. That's the consequence of the €3 chicken. I hate fox hunting and have denied the the local hunts permission to use our lands. This is very common now (admittedly it has more to do with protecting land and fencing than the fox). The most visible offenders down here are some members (not all) of travelling community. My off-farm job is across the road from a halting site and its filled with emaciated horses and dogs. Only last year, 2 horses were impaled on the railing around the site. Another was hit by a lorry. The dozen or so tethered there at the moment are skin and bone. Maybe some eduction should be required as a prerequisite to owning animals.

jooksavage wrote:

People who fundamentally oppose eating meat won't agree - thats ok: it's not like there's a concensus among farmers either. I think there are still areas that need improvement. I'm not a fan of the intensive pig and poultry operations - margins are low and these models are the only way to break even. That's the consequence of the €3 chicken. I hate fox hunting and have denied the the local hunts permission to use our lands. This is very common now (admittedly it has more to do with protecting land and fencing than the fox). The most visible offenders down here are some members (not all) of travelling community. My off-farm job is across the road from a halting site and its filled with emaciated horses and dogs. Only last year, 2 horses were impaled on the railing around the site. Another was hit by a lorry. The dozen or so tethered there at the moment are skin and bone. Maybe some eduction should be required as a prerequisite to owning animals.

An outright ban of the appallingly cruel "sport" of Sulky Racing would be a welcome start.

Birneybau

chicorytip wrote: »

An outright ban of the appallingly cruel "sport" of Sulky Racing would be a welcome start.

I believe you quoted something from the wrong thread

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

No, I wouldn't describe Ireland as a nation of animal lovers especially when people who actually do love and care for their animals are laughed and scoffed at

Graces7

Wonderfully "caring" we are..

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dog-owner-fined-2500-for-causing-unnecessary-suffering-to-her-five-pets-783408.html

please; contains distressing photos

THankful for the spca .

farmchoice

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ah yes, I knew I would get a knee jerk reaction from someone.:rolleyes: I have read a couple of books on animal welfare and they ALL point to a trend where animal welfare and the level of urbanisation and development of a country are positively correlated.

Why the need to be so defensive? Did I actually opine that rural Ireland was cruel to animals? No, I did not. Perhaps read my posts before going into hyper-reaction mode.

And Ireland does not have one of the best records in terms of animal welfare. Battery chicken farming, live transport of cattle, sheep and pigs, fox hunting and hare coursing are still widespread, as is the abandonment of animals. We are improving but IMO still have some way to go.

As for dragging the abortion issue into this thread - well, that's just bizarre.

could you name those books please as I'd like to read them this is a subject I'm interested in and i wasn't aware of any particular studies in that area.

dogs and cats are generally well treated in Ireland as pets and our cattle and sheep are pretty well treated over all especially compared to other countries where meat production is big business.
so in that regard most of our animals are in rural Ireland and most are well treated ( at least compared with other countries).

but its a funny one because when you look at it what is good treatment. take race horses, they are well housed, very well fed get great medical treatment, brushed, groomed etc.
then after that they are forced to run as fast as they can with a man on there back over and over again, and or jump over fences over and over again this is surely the height of cruelty.

osarusan

farmchoice wrote: »

but its a funny one because when you look at it what is good treatment. take race horses, they are well housed, very well fed get great medical treatment, brushed, groomed etc.
then after that they are forced to run as fast as they can with a man on there back over and over again, and or jump over fences over and over again this is surely the height of cruelty.

Whatever about while they are racing, horses and greyhounds don't have a great life afterwards, if they have any at all.

Many greyhounds end up buried somewhere, minus the tattooed ear that could identify them.

kunst nugget

Graces7 wrote: »

Wonderfully "caring" we are..

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dog-owner-fined-2500-for-causing-unnecessary-suffering-to-her-five-pets-783408.html

please; contains distressing photos

THankful for the spca .

Yes, because that one owner is entirely representative of all 4.5 million of us.

VinLieger

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Whatever about animal welfare, the attitude toward urban horses in Ireland is despicable.

How on Earth the local councils can just allow reams of horses to live out a miserable, sub standard existence on some kip council estate green to placate the local Jeremy kyle brigade at their beckoned call is beyond me. West Dublin has become terrible for it over the years.

cus "its a part of their culture" and we aren't allowed criticise

VinLieger

kunst nugget wrote: »

Yes, because that one owner is entirely representative of all 4.5 million of us.

2000 horses had to be euthanised between 2013 and 2015

http://www.thejournal.ie/my-lovely-horse-dublin-abuse-cruelty-3302265-Mar2017/

It might not be all 4.5 million but thats a disgraceful number

Gavinz

Definitely a nation of animal lovers, once during PE, we watched in horror as the poor, scruffy kid wanked off a stray dog for laughs.

ScumLord

In Ireland and in any modern urbanised group of humans we like to promote the idea of being kind to animals but it's a kind of false kindness that's geared more towards our fellow humans than actual animal welfare.

I don't think people in cities treating dogs like children has been particularly good thing for dogs. many of those dogs/cats basically end up as prisoners of the owners house with maybe an hours worth of exercise every day. Not the best lifestyle for a long range hunter. We've been breeding them to be small so it's convenient for us, but it's not doing the species, the species! Any good, breeding disabilities into the healthy population.


Urban folks might give a thumbs up for animal welfare but in the real world their actions cause massive cruelty, intensive farming is there to feed cities. I often get the impression city folks concept of the countryside, farming and wildlife is very lacking, the countryside is a mythical land far, far away and they don't really understand the realities of life for animals outside the city.

Tayschren

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

He must be speaking your language so...

"There is something profoundly cynical, my friends, in the notion of paradise after death. The lure is evasion. The promise is excusative. One need not accept responsibility for the world as it is, and by extension, one need do nothing about it. To strive for change, for true goodness in this mortal world, one must acknowledge and accept, within one's own soul, that this mortal reality has purpose in itself, that its greatest value is not for us, but for our children and their children. To view life as but a quick passage alone a foul, tortured path – made foul and tortured by our own indifference – is to excuse all manner of misery and depravity, and to exact cruel punishment upon the innocent lives to come"

Knine

kunst nugget wrote: »

Yes, because that one owner is entirely representative of all 4.5 million of us.

Unfortunately that is not an isolated example. There have been loads of similar cases

.......

This post has been deleted.

eviltwin

ScumLord wrote: »

In Ireland and in any modern urbanised group of humans we like to promote the idea of being kind to animals but it's a kind of false kindness that's geared more towards our fellow humans than actual animal welfare.

I don't think people in cities treating dogs like children has been particularly good thing for dogs. many of those dogs/cats basically end up as prisoners of the owners house with maybe an hours worth of exercise every day. Not the best lifestyle for a long range hunter. We've been breeding them to be small so it's convenient for us, but it's not doing the species, the species! Any good, breeding disabilities into the healthy population.


Urban folks might give a thumbs up for animal welfare but in the real world their actions cause massive cruelty, intensive farming is there to feed cities. I often get the impression city folks concept of the countryside, farming and wildlife is very lacking, the countryside is a mythical land far, far away and they don't really understand the realities of life for animals outside the city.

Ironically you will probably find more people who choose not to eat animals for welfare reasons in the city. I think some urban people can be a bit ignorant of the reality of farming, maybe because so many don't get to experience a real farm, only those nice ones they visit on school tours or take their kids too. I think rural people tend to see animals as food, a commodity which is also understandable.

JupiterKid

JupiterKid wrote: »

The UK is known as a nation of animal lovers. Is this true? Are we playing catch up?

osarusan wrote: »

I've never heard that.

I'd say you'd find roughly the same ratio of pet lovers and animal abuse/neglect as you would in Ireland - maybe in any other first world country.

I've heard this quite a lot. My sister is a vet who relocated to Ireland after a few years' practice in the U.K. She always says she was shocked at how far Brits will go in spending money on their pets, compared to in Ireland, where we take a more utilitarian approach to our pets, probably on account of the fact that we are very much a rural society with a much more practical approach to animals.

For example, pet insurance is a relatively new concept in Ireland. It's been common in the UK since the 1990s. Similarly, almost all of the animal welfare people who come to my sister's practice in Ireland are female, middle-aged British expats. Interesting, isn't it?

As we grow more urbanised, I suspect we are becoming more and more like the Brits in being 'precious' about our pets, which I don't necessarily agree is a good thing.

I love domestic animals, but if my dog has cancer or an old horse gets repeated, serious colics, I would not for one moment hesitate to put them out of pain by euthanasia.

I would also be slow to call the vet every time a dog gets a bump or a bruise or goes a bit lame. It's a practical approach to animals, informed by a farming background, which many people would share, especially in rural areas.

In many respects, I think the British obsession with their pets is a symptom of a society where individualism reigns, and people are increasingly isolated from their communities. I don't look upon this tendency as a healthy development at all, I'm afraid.

ScumLord

eviltwin wrote: »

Ironically you will probably find more people who choose not to eat animals for welfare reasons in the city. I think some urban people can be a bit ignorant of the reality of farming, maybe because so many don't get to experience a real farm, only those nice ones they visit on school tours or take their kids too. I think rural people tend to see animals as food, a commodity which is also understandable.

It's not so much about just eating animals, eating animals doesn't necessarily reduce their welfare. Cattle living on a normal Irish farm can have a very good quality of life. It's animals in their entirety, status symbols seem to be a big deal in cities with people wearing expensive clothes and the likes, I think a lot of city folk use animals as status symbols. You don't see many people going out to rescue mongrels, it's all about the pedigree as a status symbol. They want welfare for animals but have no idea what that is or how it would be brought about.

As much as city folk like to think their cultured, I think cities can bring out the most basic behaviour in humans.

goose2005

endacl wrote: »

If a dog isn't replacing a white stick, it has no place in a restaurant.

what if it's replacing a lamb shank?

goose2005

chicorytip wrote: »

An outright ban of the appallingly cruel "sport" of Sulky Racing would be a welcome start.

Racing sulkies on public roads is already illegal, the problem is that the law isn't enforced