Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

TomOnBoard · 25-03-2017 03:18AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Understood, but surely some info is better than none. Develop the tech onboard, maybe it won't work all the time, hut it probably would have here. What would be the downside?

Small datasets are already being transmitted air to ground so "some info is better than none" is being delivered, although not a much as you and I might like. For example, ADS-B is supposed to transmit current location so many times per minute for commercial passenger aircraft, but AFAIK its pretty useless in wide oceans or even large tracts of continental land-masses as (to my limited knowledge) it has not been mandated for all aircraft by agencies such as the FAA, it doesn't work 'over the horizon', and wont work unless either satellites are used to collect data and/or a plethora of ocean buoys are put in place. I think Thales and Iridium are working on this but it wont be in place for another few years.

In the aviation industry, any technology deployed must work ALL the time; patchy transmission of data sets air to ground would simply not be acceptable.

That said, I agree with your sentiment, and struggle with the reliance on 'black boxes' that are useless until found.

faoiarvok · 25-03-2017 03:24AM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Small datasets are already being transmitted air to ground so "some info is better than none" is being delivered, although not a much as you and I might like. For example, ADS-B is supposed to transmit current location so many times per minute for commercial passenger aircraft, but AFAIK its pretty useless in wide oceans or even large tracts of continental land-masses as (to my limited knowledge) it doesn't work 'over the horizon', and wont work unless either satellites are used to collect data and/or a plethora of ocean buoys are put in place. I think Thales and Iridium are working on this but it wont be in place for another few years.

In the aviation industry, any technology deployed must work ALL the time; patchy transmission of data sets air to ground would simply not be acceptable.

That said, I agree with your sentiment, and struggle with the reliance on 'black boxes' that are useless until found.

The Irish Aviation Authority is a major shareholder in Aireon, which is projected to provide global satellite coverage for ADS-B surveillance in 2018.

Irish Steve · 25-03-2017 03:25AM

In view of the difficulties we experienced earlier tonight with media reports that could not be substantiated, on foot of a discussion among the team that has to make the immediate decisions when things happen, so that there is no confusion, the sources that we regard as being official and acceptable for the release of information are as follows.

The Irish Air Accident Investigation unit AAIU
The Irish Coastguard
The RNLI
An Garda Siochana
The Air Corps
The Irish Naval Service

It is possible that other official sources may become involved in the investigation of the R116 accident, and if appropriate, we will add them to the list.

If one of the above named sources has released the information, it can be discussed on this thread. If you are quoting new information, we would appreciate a link to the source, or a similar notification of the source so that it can be validated or confirmed.

We would still ask that appropriate decorum and respect be used by participants, especially where the discussion may call into doubt actions taken by members of the crew who are no longer here and able to defend themselves.

Until such time as the missing crew members have been recovered, speculation about the cause of the crash is inappropriate.

At the appropriate time, this restriction will be lifted, we are as interested as every one else in trying to determine what went wrong on R116, but we also have a duty of care towards the deceased members of the crew.

I trust that all of our members will understand that these restrictions are in place to ensure that we meet the criteria that have been laid down by the owners and operators of the Boards.ie site.

Operationally, these guidelines mean that the moderators can and will remove posts that do not meet these requirements.

In view of the distraction and time involved in dealing with them, posts complaining about how the thread is being moderated will be removed, and may incur a ban, without warning, as we have made the position very clear on a number of occasions

TomOnBoard · 25-03-2017 03:26AM

faoiarvok wrote: »

The Irish Aviation Authority is a major shareholder in Aireon, which is projected to provide global satellite coverage for ADS-B surveillance in 2018.

Is that the Thales/Iridium project?

faoiarvok · 25-03-2017 03:32AM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Is that the Thales/Iridium project?

It is certainly based on Iridium's new satellite constellation. I don't see any mention of Thales on the website, but that doesn't mean they aren't involved...

https://aireon.com/

jimmycrackcorm · 25-03-2017 07:20AM

TomOnBoard wrote:

Not only was it disrespectful to name one of the crew members definitively, but it was possibly illegal.

It's not illegal. It could possibly be incorrect but if as likely will be, correct, then how and in what basis is it correct.

There's an attitude in this country that had bring to do with this forum about house wet try to hide information.

It's no different from any of the scandals that have occurred, it's people just wanting to protect something or other.

Information is coming out that keeps up coming true but as I post this I cannot tell if I'm breaking the rules in doing so.

Gaoth Laidir · 25-03-2017 08:42AM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's not illegal. It could possibly be incorrect but if as likely will be, correct, then how and in what basis is it correct.

There's an attitude in this country that had bring to do with this forum about house wet try to hide information.

It's no different from any of the scandals that have occurred, it's people just wanting to protect something or other.

Information is coming out that keeps up coming true but as I post this I cannot tell if I'm breaking the rules in doing so.

You might want to reread your post and rearrange some words to make sense.

irishgeo · 25-03-2017 08:45AM

Means Of Escape wrote: »

If the journal posted the recovery of a named crew member 3 hours ago (an hour before you posted the above statement)one would expect that his family would have been notified long before that point ?

It's seems OK for the journal to post unsubstantiated rumours but no ok for boards to do it. When they are owned by the same company. You can't apply one set of standards for one website and not for the other.

Stoolbend · 25-03-2017 09:36AM

irishgeo wrote: »

It's seems OK for the journal to post unsubstantiated rumours but no ok for boards to do it. When they are owned by the same company. You can't apply one set of standards for one website and not for the other.

Why not?

They're different websites.

mandyoh16 · 25-03-2017 09:43AM

I'm just curious about this SNIP, Sorry, this is neither the time or place to be asking this

Gaoth Laidir · 25-03-2017 09:43AM

Perfect morning up there this morning. Wind 1 knot, visibility 24 km, sky clear.

irishgeo · 25-03-2017 09:47AM

Stoolbend wrote: »

Why not?

They're different websites.

Owned by the same people.

mulbot · 25-03-2017 09:51AM

mandyoh16 wrote: »

I'm just curious about this SNIP

It' probably better to do some research on your own about this rather than bringing the thread in this direction!!

uck51js9zml2yt · 25-03-2017 09:54AM

irishgeo wrote: »

Owned by the same people.

Why can't people just behave according to the admin/ mod instructions ?

They are different companies, and operate as distinct business units.

naughto · 25-03-2017 10:01AM

I wounder how the mirror had this story of the body first they must no so people on the ground

Kerrydude1981 · 25-03-2017 10:05AM

naughto wrote: »

I wounder how the mirror had this story of the body first they must no so people on the ground

Could be a local freelance reporter that gave them them the tip off

scuby · 25-03-2017 10:12AM

naughto wrote:

I wounder how the mirror had this story of the body first they must no so people on the ground

The rescue agencies probably had asked for all media to hold off on reporting until families were informed etc and had some time to take it in before being broadcast. Unfortunately some media want to claim a few points for being first...very petty of them

uck51js9zml2yt · 25-03-2017 10:22AM

scuby wrote: »

The rescue agencies probably had asked for all media to hold off on reporting until families were informed etc and had some time to take it in before being broadcast. Unfortunately some media want to claim a few points for being first...very petty of them

Reminds me of some people on here

Alkers · 25-03-2017 10:57AM

Irish times reporting that the aaiu will have a preliminary report within 30 days "as is required by international standards"

smurfjed · 25-03-2017 11:24AM

"as is required by international standards"

Thats true as its in accordance with paragraph 7.4 of ICAO Annex 13., but don't expect the full report for at least a year, it's highly likely that the preliminary report won't revel the cause of the accident but will only deal with facts relating to the event.

morrga · 25-03-2017 12:04PM

SNIP Inappropriate and insensitive speculation at this time

Storm 10 · 25-03-2017 12:43PM

Air Corps 139 currently over Wales maybe has the blackbox on board it was to be taken to the UK today

adam88 · 25-03-2017 12:47PM

What visibility would the divers have when they get into the wreckage?????

Ye probably know where I'm going with this and if I'm in the wrong, please delete.

Gaoth Laidir · 25-03-2017 12:59PM

Such beautiful weather for such a terrible job.

Gaoth Laidir · 25-03-2017 01:15PM

No diving this morning due to 3-m swell

Check out @patmcgrath's Tweet: https://twitter.com/patmcgrath/status/845607300698193920?s=09

Coil Kilcrea · 25-03-2017 01:57PM

adam88 wrote: »

What visibility would the divers have when they get into the wreckage?????

Ye probably know where I'm going with this and if I'm in the wrong, please delete.

Well we won't go anywhere with it other than to say that the conditions would be very difficult with currents, tidal flows, proximity to the rocks, poor light, wreckage and then the awfulness of what they must do. Heroic work.

nuac · 25-03-2017 02:10PM

Coil Kilcrea wrote: »

Well we won't go anywhere with it other than to say that the conditions would be very difficult with currents, tidal flows, proximity to the rocks, poor light, wreckage and then the awfulness of what they must do. Heroic work.

Well said Coil Kilcrea.

Even in the calmest and best lit conditions working 40 metres down is extremely difficult and dangerous. Heroic work indeed. I wish them and all supporting organisations well in what they have to do.

naughto · 25-03-2017 02:14PM

How is there such high swell on a calm day

Coil Kilcrea · 25-03-2017 02:18PM

naughto wrote: »

How is there such high swell on a calm day

Swell and sea state are often independent of wind. The Atlantic swell is longer than you'd expect to find on the Irish Sea where they're generally packed together. Even in this glorious sunshine,there's a considerable swell on the East Coast despite the light winds.

And it explains how critical a role the local fisherman are contributing by assisting the services in decoding the conditions.

Gaoth Laidir · 25-03-2017 02:29PM

Wind waves are short term waves caused by the action of the wind on the sea surface right now and die down as the wind dies down.

Sea swell is waves that have travelled from distant weather systems and can travel days across an ocean. So while the weather today is perfect, Blackrock is getting waves that originated far away some time ago.

Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

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