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Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

sparrowcar

Contact lost just before 0100 off the west coast of Achill island on a rescue mission.
Search in progress including all available ships and Rescue 115.

Hopefully a positive outcome to this.

Please keep replies civil, and respectful of the crew and their families.

Please do not speculate as to any cause unless you have a factual basis to do so (and can back it up with information released to the public).

There will be zero tolerance for troublemakers or those that choose to ignore these guidelines.

There are other moderator messages in the thread, as a result of issues that have arisen, and we will be less forgiving going forward, due to the ongoing sensitivity of this incident

As per normal boards guidance, any comments on moderation are off topic and should be addressed directly to mods or cmods by PM. Any part of posts which are off topic in such a manner may be edited or removed, with possible sanction. Non news posts will be moved to the parallel R116 Non news and discussion thread

Should any new reports, updates or news stories come out, posts which can be boiled down to "I Told You So" or other triumphalism about previous commentary will result in significant punishment.

Any threadbans will carry over to any replacement thread should this approach 10,000 posts

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TomOnBoard

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Understood, but surely some info is better than none. Develop the tech onboard, maybe it won't work all the time, hut it probably would have here. What would be the downside?

Small datasets are already being transmitted air to ground so "some info is better than none" is being delivered, although not a much as you and I might like. For example, ADS-B is supposed to transmit current location so many times per minute for commercial passenger aircraft, but AFAIK its pretty useless in wide oceans or even large tracts of continental land-masses as (to my limited knowledge) it has not been mandated for all aircraft by agencies such as the FAA, it doesn't work 'over the horizon', and wont work unless either satellites are used to collect data and/or a plethora of ocean buoys are put in place. I think Thales and Iridium are working on this but it wont be in place for another few years.

In the aviation industry, any technology deployed must work ALL the time; patchy transmission of data sets air to ground would simply not be acceptable.

That said, I agree with your sentiment, and struggle with the reliance on 'black boxes' that are useless until found.

faoiarvok

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Small datasets are already being transmitted air to ground so "some info is better than none" is being delivered, although not a much as you and I might like. For example, ADS-B is supposed to transmit current location so many times per minute for commercial passenger aircraft, but AFAIK its pretty useless in wide oceans or even large tracts of continental land-masses as (to my limited knowledge) it doesn't work 'over the horizon', and wont work unless either satellites are used to collect data and/or a plethora of ocean buoys are put in place. I think Thales and Iridium are working on this but it wont be in place for another few years.

In the aviation industry, any technology deployed must work ALL the time; patchy transmission of data sets air to ground would simply not be acceptable.

That said, I agree with your sentiment, and struggle with the reliance on 'black boxes' that are useless until found.

The Irish Aviation Authority is a major shareholder in Aireon, which is projected to provide global satellite coverage for ADS-B surveillance in 2018.

Irish Steve

In view of the difficulties we experienced earlier tonight with media reports that could not be substantiated, on foot of a discussion among the team that has to make the immediate decisions when things happen, so that there is no confusion, the sources that we regard as being official and acceptable for the release of information are as follows.

The Irish Air Accident Investigation unit AAIU
The Irish Coastguard
The RNLI
An Garda Siochana
The Air Corps
The Irish Naval Service

It is possible that other official sources may become involved in the investigation of the R116 accident, and if appropriate, we will add them to the list.

If one of the above named sources has released the information, it can be discussed on this thread. If you are quoting new information, we would appreciate a link to the source, or a similar notification of the source so that it can be validated or confirmed.

We would still ask that appropriate decorum and respect be used by participants, especially where the discussion may call into doubt actions taken by members of the crew who are no longer here and able to defend themselves.

Until such time as the missing crew members have been recovered, speculation about the cause of the crash is inappropriate.

At the appropriate time, this restriction will be lifted, we are as interested as every one else in trying to determine what went wrong on R116, but we also have a duty of care towards the deceased members of the crew.

I trust that all of our members will understand that these restrictions are in place to ensure that we meet the criteria that have been laid down by the owners and operators of the Boards.ie site.

Operationally, these guidelines mean that the moderators can and will remove posts that do not meet these requirements.

In view of the distraction and time involved in dealing with them, posts complaining about how the thread is being moderated will be removed, and may incur a ban, without warning, as we have made the position very clear on a number of occasions

TomOnBoard

faoiarvok wrote: »

The Irish Aviation Authority is a major shareholder in Aireon, which is projected to provide global satellite coverage for ADS-B surveillance in 2018.

Is that the Thales/Iridium project?

faoiarvok

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Is that the Thales/Iridium project?

It is certainly based on Iridium's new satellite constellation. I don't see any mention of Thales on the website, but that doesn't mean they aren't involved...

https://aireon.com/

jimmycrackcorm

TomOnBoard wrote:

Not only was it disrespectful to name one of the crew members definitively, but it was possibly illegal.

It's not illegal. It could possibly be incorrect but if as likely will be, correct, then how and in what basis is it correct.

There's an attitude in this country that had bring to do with this forum about house wet try to hide information.

It's no different from any of the scandals that have occurred, it's people just wanting to protect something or other.

Information is coming out that keeps up coming true but as I post this I cannot tell if I'm breaking the rules in doing so.

Gaoth Laidir

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's not illegal. It could possibly be incorrect but if as likely will be, correct, then how and in what basis is it correct.

There's an attitude in this country that had bring to do with this forum about house wet try to hide information.

It's no different from any of the scandals that have occurred, it's people just wanting to protect something or other.

Information is coming out that keeps up coming true but as I post this I cannot tell if I'm breaking the rules in doing so.

You might want to reread your post and rearrange some words to make sense.

irishgeo

Means Of Escape wrote: »

If the journal posted the recovery of a named crew member 3 hours ago (an hour before you posted the above statement)one would expect that his family would have been notified long before that point ?

It's seems OK for the journal to post unsubstantiated rumours but no ok for boards to do it. When they are owned by the same company. You can't apply one set of standards for one website and not for the other.

Stoolbend

irishgeo wrote: »

It's seems OK for the journal to post unsubstantiated rumours but no ok for boards to do it. When they are owned by the same company. You can't apply one set of standards for one website and not for the other.

Why not?

They're different websites.

mandyoh16

I'm just curious about this SNIP, Sorry, this is neither the time or place to be asking this

Gaoth Laidir

Perfect morning up there this morning. Wind 1 knot, visibility 24 km, sky clear.

irishgeo

Stoolbend wrote: »

Why not?

They're different websites.

Owned by the same people.

mulbot

mandyoh16 wrote: »

I'm just curious about this SNIP

It' probably better to do some research on your own about this rather than bringing the thread in this direction!!

uck51js9zml2yt

irishgeo wrote: »

Owned by the same people.

Why can't people just behave according to the admin/ mod instructions ?

They are different companies, and operate as distinct business units.

naughto

I wounder how the mirror had this story of the body first they must no so people on the ground

Kerrydude1981

naughto wrote: »

I wounder how the mirror had this story of the body first they must no so people on the ground

Could be a local freelance reporter that gave them them the tip off

scuby

naughto wrote:

I wounder how the mirror had this story of the body first they must no so people on the ground

The rescue agencies probably had asked for all media to hold off on reporting until families were informed etc and had some time to take it in before being broadcast. Unfortunately some media want to claim a few points for being first...very petty of them

uck51js9zml2yt

scuby wrote: »

The rescue agencies probably had asked for all media to hold off on reporting until families were informed etc and had some time to take it in before being broadcast. Unfortunately some media want to claim a few points for being first...very petty of them

Reminds me of some people on here

Alkers

Irish times reporting that the aaiu will have a preliminary report within 30 days "as is required by international standards"

smurfjed

"as is required by international standards"

Thats true as its in accordance with paragraph 7.4 of ICAO Annex 13., but don't expect the full report for at least a year, it's highly likely that the preliminary report won't revel the cause of the accident but will only deal with facts relating to the event.

morrga

SNIP Inappropriate and insensitive speculation at this time

Storm 10

Air Corps 139 currently over Wales maybe has the blackbox on board it was to be taken to the UK today

adam88

What visibility would the divers have when they get into the wreckage?????

Ye probably know where I'm going with this and if I'm in the wrong, please delete.

Gaoth Laidir

Such beautiful weather for such a terrible job.

Gaoth Laidir

No diving this morning due to 3-m swell

Check out @patmcgrath's Tweet: https://twitter.com/patmcgrath/status/845607300698193920?s=09

Coil Kilcrea

adam88 wrote: »

What visibility would the divers have when they get into the wreckage?????

Ye probably know where I'm going with this and if I'm in the wrong, please delete.

Well we won't go anywhere with it other than to say that the conditions would be very difficult with currents, tidal flows, proximity to the rocks, poor light, wreckage and then the awfulness of what they must do. Heroic work.

nuac

Coil Kilcrea wrote: »

Well we won't go anywhere with it other than to say that the conditions would be very difficult with currents, tidal flows, proximity to the rocks, poor light, wreckage and then the awfulness of what they must do. Heroic work.

Well said Coil Kilcrea.

Even in the calmest and best lit conditions working 40 metres down is extremely difficult and dangerous. Heroic work indeed. I wish them and all supporting organisations well in what they have to do.

naughto

How is there such high swell on a calm day

Coil Kilcrea

naughto wrote: »

How is there such high swell on a calm day

Swell and sea state are often independent of wind. The Atlantic swell is longer than you'd expect to find on the Irish Sea where they're generally packed together. Even in this glorious sunshine,there's a considerable swell on the East Coast despite the light winds.

And it explains how critical a role the local fisherman are contributing by assisting the services in decoding the conditions.

Gaoth Laidir

Wind waves are short term waves caused by the action of the wind on the sea surface right now and die down as the wind dies down.

Sea swell is waves that have travelled from distant weather systems and can travel days across an ocean. So while the weather today is perfect, Blackrock is getting waves that originated far away some time ago.