BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

BoatMad · 24-03-2017 04:29PM

s my preference is that they recognize that their pay and conditions depend on how good their company is in the market and work with their management to adopt and grow the company so that they can earn more.

That has never happened, in fact the opposite has regularly happened, in that pay and condition improvements have been sought and forced through by industrial action, to the point where the service got into more financial trouble due to work practices and excessive wage structures

its exactly why BE is in the position its in , successive wage demands and conditions , backed by industrial action or the threat of such action have produced work practices that are out of line with its competitors and have several disadvantaged it commercially

the result is there for all to see, a failed business

BanCapitalism · 24-03-2017 04:37PM

Capitalism is evil, we must all remember than people must always come before greedy private shareholders.

BoatMad · 24-03-2017 04:38PM

BanCapitalism wrote: »

Capitalism is evil, we must all remember than people must always come before greedy private shareholders.

did you get that like from " Jane and Peter learn about Capitalism"

Jane " Capitalism is evil "
Peter " Run jane run "

BanCapitalism · 24-03-2017 04:42PM

Shane Ross and the government had the means to enrich Apple with €19 billion in dodged taxes and interest but the Bus Eireann deficit of €9 million is bridge too far for them. The mainstream narrative that public transport can or should be run on a profit making basis is risible nonsense. The Bus Eireann deficit is tiny in the context of a national bus utility and a fraction of the €132 million which has been slashed from the annual public transport subvention since 2008 to pay for the banker’s debts. And it’s microscopic in comparison to the colossal sum that the Irish state is handing to the Apple tax dodgers.

The problem is one of ideology, not of money Our neoliberal state is attempting to privatize the public transport system exactly as they did with communications, energy, waste collection etc etc with disastrous consequences for the majority. Bus Eireann has been deliberately undermined over many years with the private operators gifted the lucrative routes between urban centers and big towns driving of course on the state constructed motorway network while BE serves the social service loss making runs to small towns, villages and rural areas.

The working class is paying for the debts of capital via the systematic degradation of our social supports including the public transport system. Solidarity with the Bus Eireann workers in their battle against this attack.

ixoy · 24-03-2017 04:42PM

BanCapitalism wrote: »

Capitalism is evil, we must all remember than people must always come before greedy private shareholders.

Great. So how do you propose to plug the financial hole? Who should pay for it?

Isambard · 24-03-2017 04:42PM

BoatMad wrote: »

did you get that like from " Jane and Peter learn about Capitalism"

Jane " Capitalism is evil "
Peter " Run jane run "

they registered especially to say that too

Isambard · 24-03-2017 04:43PM

ixoy wrote: »

Great. So how do you propose to plug the financial hole? Who should pay for it?

Obvious tax the fat cats....oh wait a mo, we just banned them....

BuilderPlumber · 24-03-2017 04:44PM

BanCapitalism wrote: »

Capitalism is evil, we must all remember than people must always come before greedy private shareholders.

The issue here is this strike is evil and all people involved should be ASHAMED they let it happen. BE should look after its workers. The unions should protest in a way that does NOT disrupt the public. The government should not allow this strike and should issue a directive to make it illegal today. The government should also run its companies in a way that is of benefit to all. Simple answer is this monstrosity should NOT be happening. People depend on these services and they should come first. It is a sad day for democracy that this dictatorial act can go ahead and that ALL sides in this can run rings around our so-called government whose disinterest in things has lead to this situation in the first place.

trellheim · 24-03-2017 04:44PM

Capitalism is evil, we must all remember than people must always come before greedy private shareholders.

you registered just to post that ?

in C&T ?

For a company that is owned by the taxpayer who you are calling "a greedy private shareholder?"

BanCapitalism · 24-03-2017 04:44PM

For those of you attacking Irish Rail for their solidarity,

It’s an Irish rail issue if there’s a picket outside an Irish rail premises. Not crossing a picket is a valid reason for not going to work as every trade unionist should know.

You need to understand that the Bus Eireann workers, Iarnroid Eireann workers or those in Luas, Dublin Bus, Tesco , nurses, teachers etc don’t require your approval or permission to engage in industrial action.

BanCapitalism · 24-03-2017 04:46PM

trellheim wrote: »

Capitalism is evil, we must all remember than people must always come before greedy private shareholders.

you registered just to post that ?

in C&T ?

For a company that is owned by the taxpayer who you are calling "a greedy private shareholder?"

We are talki

trellheim wrote: »

Capitalism is evil, we must all remember than people must always come before greedy private shareholders.

you registered just to post that ?

in C&T ?

For a company that is owned by the taxpayer who you are calling "a greedy private shareholder?"

We are talking about the private cherrypickers who are paying their staff minimum wage.;

trellheim · 24-03-2017 04:46PM

The issue here is this strike is evil

your definition of evil and mine are very different . /cue Inigo Montoya "you keep using that word ... I do not think it means what you think it does.

BanCapitalism · 24-03-2017 04:48PM

ixoy wrote: »

BanCapitalism wrote: »

Capitalism is evil, we must all remember than people must always come before greedy private shareholders.

Great. So how do you propose to plug the financial hole? Who should pay for it?

Was it the unions who shoveled a €100+ billion of the people’s money at the bankers and broke the economy for a decade?

BoatMad · 24-03-2017 04:49PM

BanCapitalism wrote: »

Shane Ross and the government had the means to enrich Apple with €19 billion in dodged taxes and interest but the Bus Eireann deficit of €9 million is bridge too far for them. The mainstream narrative that public transport can or should be run on a profit making basis is risible nonsense. The Bus Eireann deficit is tiny in the context of a national bus utility and a fraction of the €132 million which has been slashed from the annual public transport subvention since 2008 to pay for the banker’s debts. And it’s microscopic in comparison to the colossal sum that the Irish state is handing to the Apple tax dodgers.

The problem is one of ideology, not of money Our neoliberal state is attempting to privatize the public transport system exactly as they did with communications, energy, waste collection etc etc with disastrous consequences for the majority. Bus Eireann has been deliberately undermined over many years with the private operators gifted the lucrative routes between urban centers and big towns driving of course on the state constructed motorway network while BE serves the social service loss making runs to small towns, villages and rural areas.

The working class is paying for the debts of capital via the systematic degradation of our social supports including the public transport system. Solidarity with the Bus Eireann workers in their battle against this attack.

lots of sentences from the " introduction to Marxism for slow learners " here

The issue is confined to BE Expressway services, that are explicitly meant to be commercial , i.e. the state does not view them as falling under the PSO obligations. ( remember BE set up Expressway as a commercial section of its activity )

The second factor is that the high costs of BE Expressway workers, and their low productivity in comparison to private drivers has meant that BE is failing ti compete and losing passengers and revenue to private companies

The losses have been mounting and the unions refuse to recognise the fact and deal with the cost structures inherent in running BE Expressway

Lets leave the " workers unite " and singing the " Internationale " etc for another time thanks

BoatMad · 24-03-2017 04:49PM

BanCapitalism wrote: »

Was it the unions who shoveled a €100+ billion of the people’s money at the bankers and broke the economy for a decade?

err , see gain the Gov will make on AIB shares and the fact that we have made a mistake in handling the banks , in NO way justifies giving in to BE unions , two wrongs never made a right

BoatMad · 24-03-2017 04:51PM

BanCapitalism wrote: »

We are talki

We are talking about the private cherrypickers who are paying their staff minimum wage.;

i see no shortage of drivers for private sector bus companies as a result

pilly · 24-03-2017 04:52PM

horseburger wrote: »

And I never said they should be censored, which is what you suggested that I had advocated.

Well, why keep arguing the point? I stated a driver was rude, and you've posted about 5 or 6 times about it.

I'm entitled to say this. Full stop. And your argument that it's nothing to do with the whole service or it's not representative is bull tbh.

I never said it was representative, what I said what that it lost the support I had been giving drivers up until then, including going to public meetings.

I've since found Kavanaghs do a cheaper service and apparently the driver is lovely. So that encourages me to go elsewhere and not have much regards for BE drivers.

I presume you're a bus driver?

BoatMad · 24-03-2017 04:53PM

pilly wrote: »

Well, why keep arguing the point. I stated a driver was rude, and you've posted about 5 or 6 times about it.

I'm entitled to say this. Full stop. And your argument that it's nothing to do with the whole service or it's not representative is bull tbh.

I presume you're a bus driver?

seriously dudes this is a thread about the strike , its not a thread about individual drivers

pilly · 24-03-2017 04:55PM

BanCapitalism wrote: »

Was it the unions who shoveled a €100+ billion of the people’s money at the bankers and broke the economy for a decade?

No, but I'll tell you what they haven't helped in any way whatsoever either.

BanCapitalism · 24-03-2017 04:56PM

The law is written in the interests of the capitalist class and as a stick to beat the working class into submission.

jimmycrackcorm · 24-03-2017 04:57PM

BanCapitalism wrote:

Capitalism is evil, we must all remember than people must always come before greedy private shareholders.

Did you use a smartphone or computer built by a capitalist company to write this post. If so you should delete it and instead post in a written letter to boards to have someone publish it so that you can genuinely stand by your principle.

BanCapitalism wrote:

Shane Ross and the government had the means to enrich Apple with â‚¬19 billion in dodged taxes and interest but the Bus Eireann deficit of â‚¬9 million is bridge too far for them. The mainstream narrative that public transport can or should be run on a profit making basis is risible nonsense. The Bus Eireann deficit is tiny in the context of a national bus utility and a fraction of the â‚¬132 million which has been slashed from the annual public transport subvention since 2008 to pay for the bankerâ€™s debts. And itâ€™s microscopic in comparison to the colossal sum that the Irish state is handing to the Apple tax dodgers.

Firstly Apple have been enriched by the US government refusing to insist that Apple, the American company who designed and control their products , should pay US tax on what they've earned abroad. Once Trump reduces the tax rate to remit the foreign earnings, then Apple will be paying US taxes on those earnings and there will be no argument about how Ireland should be getting taxes from the efforts of a fraction of the Apple workforce based here.

Secondly, public transport doesn't have to be run at a profit, that's why the concept of a PSO subsidy exists. Commercial transport does have to run at a profit so that means expressway should go.

Just because a figure looks microscopic in comparison to another does not justify why the taxpayer has to continually pay out over the odds. That microscopic figure adds up every year. Were entitled to ask that the services we pay for are run as efficiently and as cost effective as possible for our benefit and not simply because it provides well paid jobs for the boys.

BanCapitalism · 24-03-2017 04:58PM

BoatMad wrote: »

BanCapitalism wrote: »

We are talki

We are talking about the private cherrypickers who are paying their staff minimum wage.;

i see no shortage of drivers for private sector bus companies as a result

Have you ever thought maybe the privates are full of ex state company staff who lost their jobs or left and those who were not good enough?

ixoy · 24-03-2017 04:58PM

BanCapitalism wrote: »

Was it the unions who shoveled a €100+ billion of the people’s money at the bankers and broke the economy for a decade?

No? Not sure what the point is. How is it relevant to a needed solution here? That's what the focus needs to be, fixing the problem. Too late for the blame game.

BoatMad · 24-03-2017 04:58PM

BanCapitalism wrote: »

And again. All that matters is the solidarity of the Irish Rail workers who won’t pass a picket. The union leaders cannot encourage other workers to engage in sympathy striking as that would be illegal. The law is written in the interests of the capitalist class and as a stick to beat the working class into submission.

Secondary pickets should be rendered illegal in this country , there is no dispute between IR workers and its management

I see the result is the waterford to limerick train has been cancelled and the limerick to ballybrophy train has been cancelled

well thats 2 passengers pissed off at least

BoatMad · 24-03-2017 04:59PM

Were entitled to ask that the services we pay for are run as efficiently and as cost effective as possible for our benefit and not simply because it provides well paid jobs for the boys.

exactly, in a nutshell

BanCapitalism · 24-03-2017 05:00PM

m disgusted that the establishment political and corporate class has bankrupted thousands of families driving them into unemployment, poverty , the loss of their homes, emigration etc etc.

I applaud the Bus Eireann workers for fighting back and support all workers battling to defend themselves against the onslaught of capital under the neoliberal dogma.

All union leaders should draw the same average wages as the workers they represent. Unfortunately most of the union leadership like Jack O Connor, Shay Coady etc are long bought and paid for and have held their unions largely inactive on the sidelines as the nation has been ransacked for 8 years to pay for the failure of speculative financial capitalism. We’ve all suffered the consequences of that betrayal and will do so for generations.

Finally and despite the leadership we’re beginning to see the union members and the working class generally begin to fight again in cases like this Bus Eireann strike, the Luas drivers victory and the huge anti water charges (banker tax) campaign.

devnull · 24-03-2017 05:02PM

pilly wrote: »

No, but I'll tell you what they haven't helped in any way whatsoever either.

Irony being that they claim the bankers are taking money from taxpayers that required but see no problem in doing the same thing.

Isambard · 24-03-2017 05:06PM

BanCapitalism wrote: »

m disgusted that the establishment political and corporate class has bankrupted thousands of families driving them into unemployment, poverty , the loss of their homes, emigration etc etc.

I applaud the Bus Eireann workers for fighting back and support all workers battling to defend themselves against the onslaught of capital under the neoliberal dogma.

All union leaders should draw the same average wages as the workers they represent. Unfortunately most of the union leadership like Jack O Connor, Shay Coady etc are long bought and paid for and have held their unions largely inactive on the sidelines as the nation has been ransacked for 8 years to pay for the failure of speculative financial capitalism. We’ve all suffered the consequences of that betrayal and will do so for generations.

Finally and despite the leadership we’re beginning to see the union members and the working class generally begin to fight again in cases like this Bus Eireann strike, the Luas drivers victory and the huge anti water charges (banker tax) campaign.

that's the Working Class who vote in droves for FF or FG and who depend on Captialism for their living? Your pals in BE and IE would be driving empty services around were it not for the jobs Capitalists provide. Necessary evil.

BanCapitalism · 24-03-2017 05:06PM

BoatMad wrote: »

BanCapitalism wrote: »

And again. All that matters is the solidarity of the Irish Rail workers who won’t pass a picket. The union leaders cannot encourage other workers to engage in sympathy striking as that would be illegal. The law is written in the interests of the capitalist class and as a stick to beat the working class into submission.

Secondary pickets should be rendered illegal in this country , there is no dispute between IR workers and its management

I see the result is the waterford to limerick train has been cancelled and the limerick to ballybrophy train has been cancelled

well thats 2 passengers pissed off at least

All that matters is the solidarity of the Irish Rail workers who won’t pass a picket. The union leaders cannot encourage other workers to engage in sympathy striking as that would be illegal.

Nevertheless the trains aren’t running because those Irish Rail workers correctly refused to pass the picket.

BanCapitalism · 24-03-2017 05:07PM

Isambard wrote: »

BanCapitalism wrote: »

m disgusted that the establishment political and corporate class has bankrupted thousands of families driving them into unemployment, poverty , the loss of their homes, emigration etc etc.

I applaud the Bus Eireann workers for fighting back and support all workers battling to defend themselves against the onslaught of capital under the neoliberal dogma.

All union leaders should draw the same average wages as the workers they represent. Unfortunately most of the union leadership like Jack O Connor, Shay Coady etc are long bought and paid for and have held their unions largely inactive on the sidelines as the nation has been ransacked for 8 years to pay for the failure of speculative financial capitalism. We’ve all suffered the consequences of that betrayal and will do so for generations.

Finally and despite the leadership we’re beginning to see the union members and the working class generally begin to fight again in cases like this Bus Eireann strike, the Luas drivers victory and the huge anti water charges (banker tax) campaign.

that's the Working Class who vote in droves for FF or FG and who depend on Captialism for their living? Your pals in BE and IE would be driving empty services around were it not for the jobs Capitalists provide. Necessary evil.

You knock yourself out tugging the forelock to the corporate tax dodgers if you wish. They’re parasites preying on Irish society and will continue to do so while there’s profit to be made and will be gone as soon as it suits them as the Dell case illustrates.

And nor would we need their tax revenue if we issued our own floating currency had our political class not ceded monetary sovereignty to the EU and then we could properly fund our transport.

BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

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