"Significant" numbers of babies remains actually found

ohnonotgmail · 14-03-2017 02:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Was the ground consecrated? Would all the babies have been baptised? Unbaptised used not be allowed burial in consecrated ground.

are you familiar with any septic tanks that are consecrated ground? And baptised or not is irrelevant. Unbaptised children are entitled to the same dignity in death as baptised children. The lengths that church supporters will go to provide some sort of justification for what was done is staggering.

Neyite · 14-03-2017 02:53PM

tigger123 wrote: »

Surely if there was some mitigating circumstances, or some sort of spin to be made on this the RCC would have come out with something by now? Has anyone made any clarifying comments on the mother and baby home, or said anything yet?

That would be my take on it too - if it was an underground chamber that was suitable as an RCC crypt, surely the nuns would have exonerated themselves years ago by explaining how it was blessed by a priest /had the approval of the Co Co as a place of burial.

Nobody has made any clarifying comments. Not the Bon Secours, nor their PR Terry Prone, nor the clergy, nor the diocese /archbishop. Oh, and the local authority can be included in that too. None of them know a single thing to do with it all apparently.

It's like a macabre game of pass the parcel where all of them are hoping the music doesn't stop on them.

pilly · 14-03-2017 03:02PM

jameorahiely wrote:

shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds or, at the discretion of the Court, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and such imprisonment.

Multiplied by several hundred.

Seth Brundle · 14-03-2017 03:21PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The lengths that church supporters will go to provide some sort of justification for what was done is staggering.

It is actually possible to remain objective whilst at the same time having a disliking for the church!
This isn't Facebook, don't you know!

14-03-2017 03:23PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

are you familiar with any septic tanks that are consecrated ground? And baptised or not is irrelevant. Unbaptised children are entitled to the same dignity in death as baptised children. The lengths that church supporters will go to provide some sort of justification for what was done is staggering.

It really isn't. There was a time in the not too distant past where it was believed that unbaptised babies went to "Limbo".

Accordingly, they were buried in unconsecrated ground, since it was believed, (incorrectly) that their souls could never enter Heaven.

I would agree, however, that unbaptised children are entitled to the same dignity as baptised ones.

ohnonotgmail · 14-03-2017 03:24PM

kbannon wrote: »

It is actually possible to remain objective whilst at the same time having a disliking for the church!
This isn't Facebook, don't you know!

do you think asking if a septic tank is consecrated ground is a reasonable question?

ohnonotgmail · 14-03-2017 03:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It really isn't. There was a time in the not too distant past where it was believed that unbaptised babies went to "Limbo".

Accordingly, they were buried in unconsecrated ground, since it was believed, (incorrectly) that their souls could never enter Heaven.

I would agree, however, that unbaptised children are entitled to the same dignity as baptised ones.

buried. not dumped.

14-03-2017 03:33PM

Whether or not the ground was consecrated means little really.
It's not against the law to bury bodies in unconsecrated ground.
It is however against the law to just bury or dump bodies just anywhere!

14-03-2017 03:33PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

are you familiar with any septic tanks that are consecrated ground? And baptised or not is irrelevant. Unbaptised children are entitled to the same dignity in death as baptised children. The lengths that church supporters will go to provide some sort of justification for what was done is staggering.

I'm playing Devils Advocate by asking those questions. I am well aware that we are living in different times. Back then un baptised people were not allowed be buried in consecrated ground. Same went for suicides. Is it possible that only unbaptised were buried there?

Neyite · 14-03-2017 03:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm playing Devils Advocate by asking those questions. I am well aware that we are living in different times. Back then un baptised people were not allowed be buried in consecrated ground. Same went for suicides. Is it possible that only unbaptised were buried there?

I wondered that too initially but it's unlikely except in the cases of stillborn babies.

nhunter100 · 14-03-2017 03:42PM

Deleted User wrote:

A tad hysterical that. Babies and people die. FACT. The bodies were wrapped in some sort of cloth and placed in an unused underground chamber. Let them Rest In Peace.

Were you playing Devils Advocate here?

14-03-2017 04:21PM

nhunter100 wrote: »

Were you playing Devils Advocate here?

Well, someone has to! A lot of hysteria out there. Just trying to calm the situation a bit. Thankfully, we have come a long way over the last 100 years and babies born out of wedlock are as welcome as ones born within a marriage. Just teasing out the possibility that the burial chamber might have been blessed and the infants given a christian burial. A lot of blame is being laid at the Churches door, but these poor babies had more than mothers. Surely the extended families must take some share of the blame for these sad losses.

tigger123 · 14-03-2017 04:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, someone has to! A lot of hysteria out there. Just trying to calm the situation a bit. Thankfully, we have come a long way over the last 100 years and babies born out of wedlock are as welcome as ones born within a marriage. Just teasing out the possibility that the burial chamber might have been blessed and the infants given a christian burial. A lot of blame is being laid at the Churches door, but these poor babies had more than mothers. Surely the extended families must take some share of the blame for these sad losses.

The RCC had a stranglehold on this country for a long long time. They set the tone, and the morals by which communities judged themselves and in this instance each other.

gctest50 · 14-03-2017 04:26PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

buried. not dumped.

Dumped - there's a graveyard across the road from Unit731-West

Boggy Turf · 14-03-2017 04:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm playing Devils Advocate by asking those questions. I am well aware that we are living in different times. Back then un baptised people were not allowed be buried in consecrated ground. Same went for suicides. Is it possible that only unbaptised were buried there?

No it's not possible. You would know if you really followed the story.

Why do you always try to paper over horror stories about the Roman catholic church?

ohnonotgmail · 14-03-2017 04:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm playing Devils Advocate by asking those questions. I am well aware that we are living in different times. Back then un baptised people were not allowed be buried in consecrated ground. Same went for suicides. Is it possible that only unbaptised were buried there?

whether the ground was consecrated or not is irrelevant. It was not a fit and proper place to bury anybody, baptised or not.

ohnonotgmail · 14-03-2017 04:36PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Dumped - there's a graveyard across the road from Unit731-West

you need to read that post in the context of the post it was a reply to. you have it backwards.

14-03-2017 04:45PM

Boggy Turf wrote: »

No it's not possible. You would know if you really followed the story.

Why do you always try to paper over horror stories about the Roman catholic church?

I'm not aware that I am. These unfortunate babies mothers had families that are just as guilty as the church. Why did they allow this happen to their daughters?

Jelle1880 · 14-03-2017 04:46PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not aware that I am. These unfortunate babies mothers had families that are just as guilty as the church. Why did they allow this happen to their daughters?

Because the pressure put on them by society and the Church made them feel obliged ?

It all comes back to how the Church influenced people in thinking it was the right thing to do.

Seth Brundle · 14-03-2017 04:49PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

whether the ground was consecrated or not is irrelevant. It was not a fit and proper place to bury anybody, baptised or not.

How do you know? Have you seen inside it?

You seem to be making to common assumption that it was a septic tank full of sh*t. Based on what we've been told, it wasn't. It was just a sort of concrete bunker seemingly.

I'm not saying that it was appropriate to bury them without their mother knowing they were there but that's different.

14-03-2017 04:50PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Because the pressure put on them by society and the Church made them feel obliged ?

It all comes back to how the Church influenced people in thinking it was the right thing to do.

Yep. It's always someone elses fault!

tigger123 · 14-03-2017 04:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not aware that I am. These unfortunate babies mothers had families that are just as guilty as the church. Why did they allow this happen to their daughters?

Because the Church took such a negative, damning view of the women and their situation. No one family had the standing or the courage to take against the local priest and bishop.

Think for a second how different the lives of these women, and their children would have been if the Church had of supported, loved, celebrated and cherished them. Think about how they would have been treated and received by the local communities.

Seth Brundle · 14-03-2017 04:51PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

do you think asking if a septic tank is consecrated ground is a reasonable question?

Why ask me that?
Did I say that it was?

Surely it could be though as all consecrated ground requires is a priest to wave his hands and say a few prayers?

Seth Brundle · 14-03-2017 04:53PM

tigger123 wrote: »

Think for a second how different the lives of these women, and their children would have been if the Church had of supported, loved, celebrated and cherished them. Think about how they would have been treated and received by the local communities.

Which shows how un-Christian the RCC is.
And given that they haven't changed their contempt towards women, children and the state are we to think that they are any different now?

Jelle1880 · 14-03-2017 04:54PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yep. It's always someone elses fault!

For someone who says she's not trying to defend the Church you sure seem to be quite defensive.

Surely you agree that the Church and the local priest,... had a massive influence on what people thought ? And therefore that the families of these women didn't dare or had the option to say no ? That's not saying they are blameless, but the real culprit is the Church.

ohnonotgmail · 14-03-2017 04:55PM

kbannon wrote: »

How do you know? Have you seen inside it?

You seem to be making to common assumption that it was a septic tank full of sh*t. Based on what we've been told, it wasn't. It was just a sort of concrete bunker seemingly.

Do you think a concrete bunker, to use your term, is a fit place to dump the bodies of dead babies and children?

kbannon wrote: »

I'm not saying that it was appropriate to bury them without their mother knowing they were there but that's different.

so what are you saying exactly?

Seth Brundle · 14-03-2017 05:07PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Do you think a concrete bunker, to use your term, is a fit place to dump the bodies of dead babies and children?

You see now you're using the "dump" word again.
We're they just fecked into a big hole then?
As for the concrete bunker, I haven't seen it and will happily await further info from the commission before I go online with my hysterics and faux concern.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so what are you saying exactly?

Surely I'm being clear?

Jelle1880 · 14-03-2017 05:11PM

kbannon wrote: »

You see now you're using the "dump" word again.
We're they just fecked into a big hole then?
As for the concrete bunker, I haven't seen it and will happily await further info from the commission before I go online with my hysterics and faux concern.

Surely I'm being clear?

What do you think a mass grave is ?

Seth Brundle · 14-03-2017 05:17PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

What do you think a mass grave is ?

Educate me then seeing as you believe you have all the answers!
While you're at it, let me know exactly how the nuns killed them all before fecking the bodies into the mass grave.

ohnonotgmail · 14-03-2017 05:25PM

kbannon wrote: »

You see now you're using the "dump" word again.
We're they just fecked into a big hole then?
As for the concrete bunker, I haven't seen it and will happily await further info from the commission before I go online with my hysterics and faux concern.

that is how it seems. And if you think the concern over this is faux concern then that says more about you than anything.

kbannon wrote: »

Surely I'm being clear?

clear as mud

"Significant" numbers of babies remains actually found

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