"Significant" numbers of babies remains actually found

mickstupp

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its the lynch mob, bring someone, somebody, anybody, some institution, to justice mentality, that need to cool it and come down from thier high moral ground. It puts them in the same boat of the people of that era who did run things in a manner we now consider unacceptable.

No. It really doesn't. Because there's quite a large difference between these two things:

1. Bring them to justice

2. Hide the bodies where hopefully no one will ever find them

These two things, despite what you've been at for this whole thread, are not at all morally equivalent in any way whatsoever.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Mothers and siblings of these babies in some cases want the remains returned.

Do you think it's too much to ask?
I don't!

Why wait till now? Why not let them Rest In Peace. What can be gained from disturbing their final resting place?

Bullocks

Deleted User wrote: »

Why wait till now? Why not let them Rest In Peace. What can be gained from disturbing their final resting place?

Well if they're exhumed it won't be their final resting place . It might be in a much nicer place away from where they died and maybe somewhere their relations if known would be much more likely to visit instead of praying over septic tank

Bullocks

Bullocks wrote: »

Well if they're exhumed it won't be their final resting place . It might be in a much nicer place away from where they died and maybe somewhere their relations if known would be much more likely to visit instead of praying over septic tank

THAT says it all. "their relations if known". Let the poor mites Rest In Peace. Consecrate the grounds they are buried in and end this hysterical faux outrage.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Why wait till now? Why not let them Rest In Peace. What can be gained from disturbing their final resting place?

I listened to one of those babies relatives this week.(A sister, if I remember correctly!) She wants the remains to give the child a christian burial, in the same plot as his Mother.

Why would anybody deny her that? Or any other relative who wants the remains of their loved ones, for that matter...

volchitsa

jameorahiely wrote: »

Right. So will granny and granddad in that case and all equilivant others be up on trial?

No, unless they deliberately sent the girl to be harmed, and the child to be sold.
IMUIC that is not the case.

As I said before. You really are hard of understanding, aren't you?

jameorahiely

volchitsa wrote: »

No, unless they deliberately sent the girl to be harmed, and the child to be sold.
IMUIC that is not the case.

As I said before. You really are hard of understanding, aren't you?

How did they think the pregnancy issue was "solved"?

You're not giving people enough credit, they weren't stupid.

Mary's just gone for a few months holiday down the country. The baby will live with a Nigerian Prince in a golden palace :rolleyes:

Maybe they thought she was just putting on a bit of weight and went to a health farm?

Colser

jameorahiely wrote: »

How did they think the pregnancy issue was "solved"?

You're not giving people enough credit, they weren't stupid.

Mary's just gone for a few months holiday down the country. The baby will live with a Nigerian Prince in a golden palace :rolleyes:

Maybe they thought she was just putting on a bit of weight and went to a health farm?

Any possibility that they thought Mary was going into a home to be cared for by the nuns until her baby was born and then adopted?

Samaris

Deleted User wrote: »

THAT says it all. "their relations if known". Let the poor mites Rest In Peace. Consecrate the grounds they are buried in and end this hysterical faux outrage.

Question - why is it faux outrage? Like, what psychic powers do you have that means you know as a fact that everyone in this thread and further afield that reckon this was a shameful business is lying for unspecified reasons?

You are aware that just because -you're- not outraged doesn't mean that anyone who is is lying...right?

Mr.Plough

Mate of mine who's a graphic designer did this piece relative to this topic

The Rape of Lucretia

Mr.Plough wrote: »

Mate of mine who's a graphic designer did this piece relative to this topic

Humanity elevating christianity to a peak and as its beacon, while the black, murderous symbol of that religion, looks back down at the death and tragedy it promotes. The dead, looking back up at that symbol, understanding too late that it is responsible for that evil, and thus, responsible for its own downfall.

Its well done.

Mr.Plough

Mr.Plough wrote: »

Mate of mine who's a graphic designer did this piece relative to this topic

I think it's horribly insensitive to the survivors of these homes, tbh.

No offence to your mate - but it gives me the creeps....

Bullocks

Deleted User wrote: »

THAT says it all. "their relations if known". Let the poor mites Rest In Peace. Consecrate the grounds they are buried in and end this hysterical faux outrage.

I'm far from hysterical , faux , or outraged but thanks anyway

Samaris

I hate to be that guy, but in the poster, "human trafficking" is misspelled. Mostly just if s/he's planning on doing something specific with it, might want to fix that.

Other than that, creepy as all get out.

Hagar7

jameorahiely wrote: »

What did they think happened the babies? To pretend they thought it was some sort of Narnia is very niaeve. Girls would have stories about their experiences inside the homes. Not only that but doctors, teachers and other professionals knew it aswell. Nobody chose to listen and hear what was happening. It was quietly accepted by society at the time.


Maybe you need to widen your sample size. Just because nobody in your family went to a home, doesn't mean that society didn't turn a blind eye to what was happening. By that logic, nobody in your family went in to a home, maybe the homes didn't exist :rolleyes:



Babies in unconsecrated graves is aborhant, babies in buckets is funny. What a wierd logic!!
If the "pro-choice" support those actions, they are on par with the nuns and the society that let this kind of thing happen. Brainwashing is a hell of a thing.

So is fear.

Zebra3

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

It took theE Irish people a long long time to maturs after they lost the support of the British.

Read a history book.

Occupation, genocide, ethnic cleansing doesn't equal support. :rolleyes:

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

A tad hysterical that. Babies and people die. FACT. The bodies were wrapped in some sort of cloth and placed in an unused underground chamber. Let them Rest In Peace.

they were dumped down a ceptic tank. they will rest in peace when the truth is found out and they are buried in a proper resting place.

Deleted User wrote: »

Why wait till now? Why not let them Rest In Peace. What can be gained from disturbing their final resting place?

they can be reburied in a proper resting place. plenty to gain by returning them home to their families where possible. possibly the families weren't able to ask for their remains until now as they didn't know what happened. whether they had been adopted, or had died, or if they were aware that they had died, where the remains were.

Deleted User wrote: »

THAT says it all. "their relations if known". Let the poor mites Rest In Peace. Consecrate the grounds they are buried in and end this hysterical faux outrage.

what "hysterical faux outrage"
there is no "hysterical faux outrage"
they have to be returned to their relations to be buried properly so they can rest in peace.

Hagar7

end of the road wrote: »

they were dumped down a ceptic tank. they will rest in peace when the truth is found out and they are buried in a proper resting place.



they can be reburied in a proper resting place. plenty to gain by returning them home to their families where possible. possibly the families weren't able to ask for their remains until now as they didn't know what happened. whether they had been adopted, or had died, or if they were aware that they had died, where the remains were.



what "hysterical faux outrage"
there is no "hysterical faux outrage"
they have to be returned to their relations to be buried properly so they can rest in peace.

Post of the day,well said.

Hagar7

If there's one thing I'd love to see after all of this is a huge monument built somewhere in Ireland in memory of the women and children who suffered and died as a result of the evil,vile scum who never showed an ounce of sympathy,shame on them.

jameorahiely

Hagar7 wrote: »

So is fear.

I don't doubt it, but I don't think it's because of fear that makes that poster find dead babies in a bucket funny.

Cabaal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why wait till now? Why not let them Rest In Peace. What can be gained from disturbing their final resting place?

So its too much to ask to know where a body has been dumped? Wow, just wow

Why wait till now? Because they didn't and in many cases still do not know where the body's have been dumped.

Lets put it this way, if I had a brother or sisters who's body was dumped somewhere id want it found and buried inline with my familys wishes. It's not a big ask, it's asking for some basic respect.

volchitsa

jameorahiely wrote: »

I don't doubt it, but I don't think it's because of fear that makes that poster find dead babies in a bucket funny.

Dead babies in a bucket? Are you mad?

Cabaal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

THAT says it all. "their relations if known". Let the poor mites Rest In Peace. Consecrate the grounds they are buried in and end this hysterical faux outrage.

Clearly that's the fault with all mass graves,

The solution isn't to identify the body's so the familys have more info and so bodies can be buried inline with the families religions and or spiritual beliefs (let's not be too forget not everyone is a Catholic so they may not appreciate the church throwing holy water on the mass grave) , no no, the solution is to leave it all as it is and get the organisation that carried out the crimes to bless the grave.

All is better.

jameorahiely

volchitsa wrote: »

Dead babies in a bucket? Are you mad?

Oh Vol, you haven't forgotten our conversation this morning already have you?

The dead babies in the bucket that was brought through the waiting room full of people at the Maries Stopes clinic in 2016?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102891799&postcount=1532

Hagar7

jameorahiely wrote: »

I don't doubt it, but I don't think it's because of fear that makes that poster find dead babies in a bucket funny.

If truth be told there's been quite an number of weird posts on this subject,baffling really.

Zebra3

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/measure-up-and-pay-the-victims-of-abuse-taoiseach-tells-catholic-church-leaders-35524502.html

It's a pity we don't have someone with a bit of backbone running the country, a party actually interested in law and order and going after criminals.

:rolleyes:

Samaris

I am not sure the word genocide means what various people think it means.

Can we be clear here? Genocide = "intentional action to destroy a people (usually defined as an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group) in whole or in part." There was no deliberate attempt to destroy ethnic Irish, citizens of Ireland as a whole, whites or Catholics by the Catholic Church, since any of the above would have been eminently counter-productive. It's a ridiculous word to use and cheapens both victims of actual genocide and what happened in Tuam.

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

So its too much to ask to know where a body has been dumped? Wow, just wow

Why wait till now? Because they didn't and in many cases still do not know where the body's have been dumped.

Lets put it this way, if I had a brother or sisters who's body was dumped somewhere id want it found and buried inline with my familys wishes. It's not a big ask, it's asking for some basic respect.

It has been known for years that there were bodies buried there. People have recounted how they saw babies wrapped in shrouds placed in this underground chamber. That is how it was described, not dumped in a cesspit.There is no account to say whether or not a religious service was held before burial. However, from my sketchy recollection of my religious education, unbaptised babies could not be buried in consecrated ground. That's the way it was back then. Just like the families back then were responsible for their daughters and sisters being sent to these homes. What good would it do to exhume the lot of them now? Do DNA tests on all and maybe find families of a handful? As for finding out how they died, after all this time it is doubtful that there is much if any evidence as to how they died.

tigger123

Deleted User wrote: »

It has been known for years that there were bodies buried there. People have recounted how they saw babies wrapped in shrouds placed in this underground chamber. That is how it was described, not dumped in a cesspit.There is no account to say whether or not a religious service was held before burial. However, from my sketchy recollection of my religious education, unbaptised babies could not be buried in consecrated ground. That's the way it was back then. Just like the families back then were responsible for their daughters and sisters being sent to these homes. What good would it do to exhume the lot of them now? Do DNA tests on all and maybe find families of a handful? As for finding out how they died, after all this time it is doubtful that there is much if any evidence as to how they died.

Regardless of where people's own ideologies lie, and the chest thumping about "how we were all to blame", or not, the very least that's required is a full investigation into what happened and how those bodies ended up there.

We can't live in a country were a mass grave is uncovered and we then rely on folk memory as to how it got there and what happened. The people who are buried there and their families deserve better than that.

Mrs OBumble

Cabaal wrote: »

.

Lets put it this way, if I had a brother or sisters who's body was dumped somewhere id want it found and buried inline with my familys wishes. It's not a big ask, it's asking for some basic respect.

The same loving (sic ) family that sent the mother to the home in the first place.? I think its pretty clear what most families wishes were.