How come CAB never go after travellers?

RandomName2 · 12-03-2017 10:46AM

RayM wrote: »

Inconveniently for those who wish to believe that Travellers are somehow immune from the Criminal Assets Bureau, the question has been answered and shown to be invalid.

Not really. Travellers are almost by definition outside the law in terms of wealth. The term "Traveller" typically refers to people who don't work, have no obvious means of income, but are able to afford not only to live, but quite obviously spend vast amounts on vehicles, and 'occasions' such as weddings and funerals. They surely aren't immune from CAB prosecution, but it stands to reason that prosecution is more difficult of large organisations than individuals. When said organisations hide behind false shields of victimhood it makes prosecution even more difficult.

RayM wrote: »

And if the thread gets locked, it'll be because some people are incapable of talking about the Travelling community without making racist generalisations about them.

That seems to be a blank check of "don't criticise these particular people or you can be called racist". The particular people who just happen to be Irish.

Noddyholder · 12-03-2017 10:55AM

I think because us Irish need someone to look down on, the travellers can be easy scapegoats, Were used to been looked down on by other countries, be it the Brits or the Australian's or even the Americans ...

Grame Morris, a political pundit and former chief of staff to John Howard, was discussing same-sex marriage on Sky News on Monday. Somehow this turned into a diatribe about Irish people.

“I love the Irish and half the parliament’s full of Irishmen, but these are people who can’t grow potatoes,” he said. “They’ve got a mutant lawn weed as their national symbol and they can’t verbalise the difference between a tree and the number three.”...

Irish put downs are not new; they’ve been around for years, started by the English as a method of subjugation. As one academic put it, they depicted Irish people as uncivilised, “to show how English rule could be used to benefit the Irish”.

Switch Irish for travellers at home & were just passing on what was passed to us...

Chiparus · 12-03-2017 10:59AM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Not really. Travellers are almost by definition outside the law in terms of wealth. The term "Traveller" typically refers to people who don't work, have no obvious means of income, but are able to afford not only to live, but quite obviously spend vast amounts on vehicles, and 'occasions' such as weddings and funerals. They surely aren't immune from CAB prosecution, but it stands to reason that prosecution is more difficult of large organisations than individuals. When said organisations hide behind false shields of victimhood it makes prosecution even more difficult.

That seems to be a blank check of "don't criticise these particular people or you can be called racist". The particular people who just happen to be Irish.

If i did not have a mortgage or rent to pay , I would appear quite wealthy.

myshirt · 12-03-2017 11:10AM

Chiparus wrote: »

If i did not have a mortgage or rent to pay , I would appear quite wealthy.

Travellers die much younger than the settled community also, so they pass on their wealth much quicker. And cleaner might I say. All tangible and/or liquid assets here. No messy financial scenarios.

They are good people for dealing in wasting chattels which there is no tax on anyway, and they lead a cost effective life. One big pot of stew. Up to 14 in the family. Economies of scale.

KERSPLAT! · 12-03-2017 11:14AM

Graces7 wrote: »

Oh dear! Hit a nerve there.

Mod

Banned.

You're either trolling or using the deaths of others to score points, either is unacceptable.

RandomName2 · 12-03-2017 11:21AM

Noddyholder wrote: »

I think because us Irish need someone to look down on, the travellers can be easy scapegoats. We're used to being looked down on by other countries, be it the Brits or the Australians or even the Americans ...

Switch Irish for travellers at home & were just passing on what was passed to us...

So Irish expats came back to Ireland to discriminate against Travellers? That's a new one. I'm having to capitalise Irish Travellers to distinguish the group of people who call themselves "Travellers", who don't actually travel, and "Irish travellers", who do.

It is a well known fact that a disproportionate amount of crime is committed by this minority. Even if was the case that they worked (and last statistic I saw 18% of Travellers worked#, which struck me as peculiarly high) they would still be disposed towards criminality due to lack of education and integration into wider society.

Granted the "settled" community is in no small part to blame for this. Travellers who attempt to "settle" are often resisted by communities. But we must accept that Traveller communities also hold back their members from leaving. The more they want to say they aren't Irish, the more they claim a gypsy culture (with its own language of cant!), the more they go on about being victimised and discriminated against by the public; the more barriers to their being integrated.

Even Sinn Fein and Pave Point have admitted that certain criminal elements exist within the Travelling community which have fostered mistrust in the wider public. Duh-doy.

snowflaker · 12-03-2017 01:03PM

boards, so predictable Keyboard warriors have the usual suspects to blame for their perceived ills; Travellers, Unemployed people, Women, Migrants. I sometimes feel like I'm reading the Daily Express!

Yourself isit · 12-03-2017 01:17PM

snowflaker wrote: »

boards, so predictable Keyboard warriors have the usual suspects to blame for their perceived ills; Travellers, Unemployed people, Women, Migrants. I sometimes feel like I'm reading the Daily Express!

Virtue signalling aside what do you feel about the topic under discussion, though? Should cab (or does it already) go after travellers?

snowflaker · 12-03-2017 01:32PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

Virtue signalling aside what do you feel about the topic under discussion, though? Should cab (or does it already) go after travellers?

Had you read the topic, it was shown it does and has done. CAB should go after illgotten gains from criminality.

andekwarhola · 12-03-2017 01:34PM

Presumably they do if the crime is significant and organized enough. Didn't they get a settlement out of that O'Connor gang?

maryishere · 12-03-2017 01:40PM

myshirt wrote: »

Travellers die much younger than the settled community also, so they pass on their wealth much quicker.

But if they have 14 in the family to pass it on to, as you say? And if they do not work or pay taxes, should they really have vast amounts of wealth to pass on in the first place?

I remember seeing the flash wediing of a young unemployed traveller couple, they were both teenagers and yet went on a 2 week caribbean cruise. Good for them, most settled people I know could not do that after years of work.

MilesMorales1 · 12-03-2017 01:40PM

'Why aren't travellers investigated by CAB?'
Here is examples of travellers being investigated by CAB.
'Yeah but the ones I see with my incredibly bull**** anecdotal evidence wipe their arses using my dole money while driving in their huge cars, why isn't CAB investigating them?'

YFlyer · 12-03-2017 01:43PM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Rathkeale co limerick there are drive around brand new English 2017 reg porsche cars bentleys cars rolls royce cars mercedes cars range rovers jeeps the lot the are super Wealthy rich people money the cars there at xmas you would not see the likes of it any where in europe I have been there a few times the graveyard in Rathkeale co limerick the headstones the must have cost up to 100000 euros each and more why do all the rich travellers go there what is the story is the holy land for them i would love to know now get back to paying tax why would the want to that and give there hard cash to the likes of TD Willie o Dea , TD Joan burton TD Michael Lowry,TD Bertie Ahern etc why would you want give your money to them because if the did the would be like most people of Ireland broke there sticking there two fingers up the government and I say well done boys .

They rent most of those vehicles.

snowflaker · 12-03-2017 01:44PM

maryishere wrote: »

But if they have 14 in the family to pass it on to, as you say? And if they do not work or pay taxes, should they really have vast amounts of wealth to pass on in the first place?

I remember seeing the flash wediing of a young unemployed traveller couple, they were both teenagers and yet went on a 2 week caribbean cruise. Good for them, most settled people I know could not do that after years of work.

Have you specific evidence of this or generalising?

But I'm sure you have reported it to Revenue.

snowflaker · 12-03-2017 01:46PM

How does one "see" a "flash" traveller wedding a know the details of their honeymoon from that???

infogiver · 12-03-2017 01:56PM

What a lot of posters don't seem to realise is that a lot of the very public criminals targeted by state bodies such as the Gardai Revenue DSP and CAB are, despite living palatially, ethnically Traveller. ( we can say that now).
The vast amount of they're wealth was garnered from the drugs market which they adapted to very quickly and easily and what people don't want mentioned is that a huge proportion of the suicides among traveller men are under the influence of drugs.
I know of 2 traveller brothers, the fathers of small children, men in their late 30s early 40s who died of suicide last year while demented from bangers and Coke.
Another brother told me that the travelling community is consumed with drug addiction at the moment but it's a totally taboo subject.

maryishere · 12-03-2017 01:57PM

snowflaker wrote: »

How does one "see" a "flash" traveller wedding a know the details of their honeymoon from that???

It was one of those gypsy wedding documentary things on the telly.

infogiver · 12-03-2017 02:03PM

snowflaker wrote: »

How does one "see" a "flash" traveller wedding a know the details of their honeymoon from that???

Snowflake you have to ask yourself some honest questions.
Some of the headstones in the graveyard cost upwards of 60000.
Where do the 171 land rovers come from?
The BMWs?
The never ending lavish social outings?
It's not from honest endeavour.
Rural communities have been terrorised and elderly people murdered by violent traveller gangs for years and until the decent travelers stand up to be counted and do something about it then the rest of the citizens have a perfect entitlement to complain.

snowflaker · 12-03-2017 02:14PM

infogiver wrote: »

Snowflake you have to ask yourself some honest questions.
Some of the headstones in the graveyard cost upwards of 60000.
Where do the 171 land rovers come from?
The BMWs?
The never ending lavish social outings?
It's not from honest endeavour.
Rural communities have been terrorised and elderly people murdered by violent traveller gangs for years and until the decent travelers stand up to be counted and do something about it then the rest of the citizens have a perfect entitlement to complain.

So that's your excuse to allow you to tar them all with the ones brush?

I lived in a rural community growing up. Settled gangs were as much an issue as travellers - lets attack all settled people.

I live beside a halting site - don't see many 171s. I see wretched poverty and conditions I wouldn't like to live in

I don't follow them around so not aware of lavish events- but then I don't read the Sunday World or Watch TV3/C5

Widdershins · 12-03-2017 02:36PM

12gauge dave wrote: »

I am guessing you are probably right.

Buying 80,000 euro jeeps and big houses with cash is big enough to warrant a visit from cab surely??? I cant put 3,000 euro into the credit union without being asked where it came from.

Yes, it's a bit weird.Do the CU have a right to ask that, by the way?

Stigura · 12-03-2017 02:48PM

longshanks wrote: »

You just indiscriminately shat out the words, didn't you?

You just won the f**kin internet, with that one!

Widdershins · 12-03-2017 02:49PM

DontThankMe wrote: »

Maybe it's because travellers aren't criminals.

Is it not the assets that are referred to as criminal, ie unlawfully obtained, clearly not through legal, documented employment, with no tax being paid on it. So technically, in those cases, they ARE criminals.

snowflaker · 12-03-2017 02:54PM

Widdershins wrote: »

Yes, it's a bit weird.Do the CU have a right to ask that, by the way?

Yes Money Laundering act

Will I Am Not · 12-03-2017 02:58PM

stefanovich wrote: »

And a slow learner too.

Go on. Enlighten me.

Widdershins · 12-03-2017 03:10PM

snowflaker wrote: »

Yes Money Laundering act

Do you have to supply documents or do they record your response? Sorry, I should try to google this, really

Sleeper12 · 12-03-2017 03:24PM

Omackeral wrote:

Any call for ethnic cleansing is disturbing. I bet they wouldn't have the bottle to post such things on their public Facebook accounts.

They are just posting for the crowd with stuff like that.

RobertKK · 12-03-2017 03:48PM

I know from experience there are good and bad Travellers, like there are good and bad people in the settled community. However, I can't help it, after my bad experience which I posted about earlier in this thread, if a Traveller comes selling something and comes into my yard, I will not do business with them.
I found that after not doing business with them - years ago would buy gates off them for the farm, cheaper but poorer quality - now they are bought at the local co-op, they have come less and less often. When trust is broken, and one has a really bad experience, it is impossible to forget, as one doesn't want to put themselves in that position again.
There are good people in the Traveller community, but the bad apples are so damaging, because the worse are very intimidating and make you feel vulnerable. This is something they need to deal with.
I don't want to feel the way I do about Travellers, I believe everyone deserves a fair chance in life, but I know I am hypocrite and have prejudices based on personal experiences, and I won't give a Traveller the same chance now, as I would a person from the settled community.
There has been nothing over the years that have helped me to get back to where I would give Travellers an equal opportunity. I know that is wrong, but when one feels deep down they can't trust someone, and they come from a community with trust issues, it makes it impossible.
I think this is a sad position to find oneself in, I don't believe most people who feel negative towards Travellers, want to have prejudices against Travellers, but bad experiences can leave scars that remain.

Widdershins · 12-03-2017 04:04PM

RobertKK wrote: »

I know from experience there are good and bad Travellers, like there are good and bad people in the settled community. However, I can't help it, after my bad experience which I posted about earlier in this thread, if a Traveller comes selling something and comes into my yard, I will not do business with them.
I found that after not doing business with them - years ago would buy gates off them for the farm, cheaper but poorer quality - now they are bought at the local co-op, they have come less and less often. When trust is broken, and one has a really bad experience, it is impossible to forget, as one doesn't want to put themselves in that position again.
There are good people in the Traveller community, but the bad apples are so damaging, because the worse are very intimidating and make you feel vulnerable. This is something they need to deal with.
I don't want to feel the way I do about Travellers, I believe everyone deserves a fair chance in life, but I know I am hypocrite and have prejudices based on personal experiences, and I won't give a Traveller the same chance now, as I would a person from the settled community.
There has been nothing over the years that have helped me to get back to where I would give Travellers an equal opportunity. I know that is wrong, but when one feels deep down they can't trust someone, and they come from a community with trust issues, it makes it impossible.
I think this is a sad position to find oneself in, I don't believe most people who feel negative towards Travellers, want to have prejudices against Travellers, but bad experiences can leave scars that remain.

And they know it and plenty of them resent the bad apples too. What can you do? It's no good being naive.

infogiver · 12-03-2017 04:07PM

snowflaker wrote: »

So that's your excuse to allow you to tar them all with the ones brush?

I lived in a rural community growing up. Settled gangs were as much an issue as travellers - lets attack all settled people.

I live beside a halting site - don't see many 171s. I see wretched poverty and conditions I wouldn't like to live in

I don't follow them around so not aware of lavish events- but then I don't read the Sunday World or Watch TV3/C5

I think your not being very honest. Pretending that travellers are all living in poverty is being very blinkered. I live in a large rural town and some travellers do live in poor conditions. No poorer than settled people on the same limited income, mind you. And you have to accept that they are on a halting site mostly because they won't accept the terms and conditions attached to social housing.
But settled travellers in general have a good standard of living and have a good appetite for what I would consider luxury items which don't fit in with their income.
Then there are Irish towns with a large travelling community who do collect their dole in 171 cars before returning to palatial Mansions.
Many rural communities have been terrorised and plundered by gangs of criminal travellers. There's no point in pretending that they're NOT travellers.
And wether you like it or not the rest of us are entitled to ask questions about this.

snowflaker · 12-03-2017 04:31PM

infogiver wrote: »

I think your not being very honest. Pretending that travellers are all living in poverty is being very blinkered. I live in a large rural town and some travellers do live in poor conditions. No poorer than settled people on the same limited income, mind you. And you have to accept that they are on a halting site mostly because they won't accept the terms and conditions attached to social housing.
But settled travellers in general have a good standard of living and have a good appetite for what I would consider luxury items which don't fit in with their income.
Then there are Irish towns with a large travelling community who do collect their dole in 171 cars before returning to palatial Mansions.
Many rural communities have been terrorised and plundered by gangs of criminal travellers. There's no point in pretending that they're NOT travellers.
And wether you like it or not the rest of us are entitled to ask questions about this.

I'm the one not being honest? Have you a shred of evidence for the assertion or are you being accustiory without facts?

I don't tar all people with the one brush, it's unfair. I don't think anyone should

I was in a pub in Germany, got chatting to this guy, English hotelier, said he couldn't trust Irish builders. I asked "All of them?" He said yes. I got up and walked away. He couldn't understand my disgust at prejudice apparently

I don't buy ANYTHING from door to door sales people

How come CAB never go after travellers?

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