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Strike For Repeal?

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Comments

  • #782
    jameorahiely
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    bubblypop wrote: »
    What would be wrong with abortion clinics, if it was legal here?
    It's been said numerous times on this thread that people wouldn't be happy with our health services providing the service free, so therefore why wouldn't a clinic open?

    That particular organisation of clinics carried out abortions on vunerable women without their consent and threw fetal remains open top bins. Maybe your alright with that, but I find it absolutely discipible. They also advocate for no doctor necessary abortions.

    Your response suggests you think it fine. Bizarre.


  • #783
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    jameorahiely wrote: »
    That particular organisation of clinics carried out abortions on vunerable women without their consent and threw fetal remains open top bins. Maybe your alright with that, but I find it absolutely discipible. They also advocate for no doctor necessary abortions.

    Your response suggests you think it fine. Bizarre.

    I'm not sure what you're trying to do here, but that article clearly was about an inspection that found fault at one of the clinics. Presumably, suitable penalty or sanctions were brought against it?


  • #784
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    jameorahiely wrote: »
    A fascinating response


    GUH don't only provide abortions, why would I want it shut down, bizarre. A more apt comparison would be letting the nuns run child care homes, even they buried their foetal remains.


    Marie Stopes specialise in providing abortions. If it was legalised here they would be opening clinics, as they have done in the north. You can't seem to bring yourself to condem their actions. Fascinating.
    i thought there were no abortions in the north?


  • #785
    jameorahiely
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you're trying to do here, but that article clearly was about an inspection that found fault at one of the clinics. Presumably, suitable penalty or sanctions were brought against it?

    I'm not sure what you are trying to do because clearly it wasn'y just at one clinic. It mentions several others by name
    Did you even read it?

    amid a catalogue of failings uncovered at Marie Stopes clinics across the country.
    At one clinic, in Norwich, ...
    At another, in Sandwell, West Midlands...
    And inspectors who visited the headquarters of the charity found ..
    In South London...
    In Maidstone in Kent...


  • #786
    jameorahiely
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    Tigger wrote: »
    i thought there were no abortions in the north?
    The Marie Stopes UK Belfast Centre offers the abortion pill(s) also known as the medical abortion treatment for women in Northern Ireland.
    https://www.mariestopes.org.uk/clinic/marie-stopes-belfast-centre-northern-ireland


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  • #787
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,904 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    jameorahiely wrote: »
    A fascinating response


    GUH don't only provide abortions, why would I want it shut down, bizarre. A more apt comparison would be letting the nuns run child care homes, even they buried their foetal remains.


    Marie Stopes specialise in providing abortions. If it was legalised here they would be opening clinics, as they have done in the north. You can't seem to bring yourself to condem their actions. Fascinating.

    You find everything "fascinating" but you don't seem able to explain what your objection is. Other than "It's abortion so they're evil" of course.

    Among all the centres providing abortions, a few were found to be guilty of malpractice and they were told to put it right.

    As I said, if we were to apply your logic to every Irish hospital guilty of some form of malpractice the HSE would close down, so unless you can explain why you think nuns running childcare is a better example (so were they all forcibly removed due to their malpractice btw? I must have missed where that happened) I still don't see what your point is.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • #788
    jameorahiely
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    volchitsa wrote: »
    You find everything "fascinating" but you don't seem able to explain what your objection is. Other than "It's abortion so they're evil" of course.

    Among all the centres providing abortions, a few were found to be guilty of malpractice and they were told to put it right.

    As I said, if we were to apply your logic to every Irish hospital guilty of some form of malpractice the HSE would close down, so unless you can explain why you think nuns running childcare is a better example (so were they all forcibly removed due to their malpractice btw? I must have missed where that happened) I still don't see what your point is.

    You are unsble to grasp what my objection is? Ok, if you can't grasp it, you can't grasp it, I'm sure other people will be able to understand. If we use your logic your arguement seems to be "it's abortion so it's good" :rolleyes:


    What do you think you may have missed? The abortion services being suspended? Try google.


  • #789
    Absolam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Grayson wrote: »
    The investigation into Savita did place the blame on the 8th. There were over 20 points of failure in her treatment. Each led to her death. However the HIQA report into the events did say that if the pregnancy had been terminated when she requested it, she would have probably survived. It also stated that at that point the best treatment was a termination. And that she was refused it because of the 8th.
    General opinion seems to be against you there; certainly there were a number of contributing factors, but the HIQA report didn't state that at that point the best treatment was a termination. If you'd actually read it, you'd know the report doesn't even contain the word termination. Or abortion.
    Grayson wrote: »
    The report is here. I'd recommend reading it.
    https://www.hiqa.ie/reports-and-publications/key-reports-and-investigations/patient-safety-investigation-report
    I'd recommend reading it too :) While we wait, you might be interested to know it was Dr Boylan, an expert witness at the inquest, who made the statement that Ms Halappanavars life was highly likely on the balance on probability to have been saved by an abortion; this statement was predicated on the abortion taking place before there was a risk to Ms Halappanavars life.
    Grayson wrote: »
    Pro lifers like to point out it was a string of failures in care that lead to her death. They're right, if she had been given proper care it probably have never reached the point where she needed a termination. However that ignores the point that she did need a termination to save her life at one point.
    Which ignores that fact that the only point at which an abortion could (not would, could) have played a part in a process to save her life was a point at which her life was not in danger. It's as useless a statement as saying not getting pregnant would have saved her life, but nevertheless, as I said earlier, the case is dragged out over and over to be laid at the feet of the 8th by pro choice advocates who ignore the fact that they're pulling focus away from the fact that we need to improve the standards of maternal care in our hospitals to stop these things happening, not just make it legal to kill babies.


  • #790
    __Alex__
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭__Alex__


    Wibbs wrote: »
    The IMHO oversubscription of the medical card in Ireland is another debate for another day. It's beyond mad that nearly half of all Irish people have one.

    35% of the population have a medical card. (calculated from early 2017 figures for both) It was nearly 50% at the peak of the recession but has dropped back since then. 35% doesn't seem excessive to me, considering that the 35% includes pensioners and children.


  • #791
    mahamageehad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,673 ✭✭✭mahamageehad


    jameorahiely wrote: »
    The Marie Stopes UK Belfast Centre offers the abortion pill(s) also known as the medical abortion treatment for women in Northern Ireland.
    https://www.mariestopes.org.uk/clinic/marie-stopes-belfast-centre-northern-ireland

    Not exactly true and very misleading. The law is far stricter than in the rest of the UK as the 1967 Abortion act does not apply in Northern Ireland. Access to abortion is only permitted if a woman's life is at risk or there is a permanent or serious risk to her mental or physical health. Pretty much the same as southern Ireland. In fact, last year Stormont voted against amending legislation to allow terminations in cases of fatal foetal abnormality and sexual crime. Northern Irish women also aren't entitled to have their abortions on the mainland covered by the NHS according to a 2014 ruling. There was a case last year of a 19 year old being refused an abortion in the North. She couldn't afford to travel to the mainland UK so she bought abortion pills online and ended up with a suspended sentence for it.

    In 2015 only 23 abortions were carried out in Northern Ireland. 26 abortions were carried out in Ireland in the same year.

    The Marie Stopes UK Belfast Centre mainly acts as a marketing tool to send girls to their UK clinics.


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  • #792
    jameorahiely
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    mahamageehad wrote: »
    Not exactly true and very misleading. The law is far stricter than in the rest of the UK as the 1967 Abortion act does not apply in Northern Ireland. Access to abortion is only permitted if a woman's life is at risk or there is a permanent or serious risk to her mental or physical health. Pretty much the same as southern Ireland. In fact, last year Stormont voted against amending legislation to allow terminations in cases of fatal foetal abnormality and sexual crime. Northern Irish women also aren't entitled to have their abortions on the mainland covered by the NHS according to a 2014 ruling. There was a case last year of a 19 year old being refused an abortion in the North. She couldn't afford to travel to the mainland UK so she bought abortion pills online and ended up with a suspended sentence for it.

    In 2015 only 23 abortions were carried out in Northern Ireland. 26 abortions were carried out in Ireland in the same year.

    The Marie Stopes UK Belfast Centre mainly acts as a marketing tool to send girls to their UK clinics.

    I copied and pasted that sentence directly from their website and provided the link. :pac: So if it's not exactly true or misleading as you say, take it up with Marie Stopes.

    An abortion provider lying, who'd have thought!


  • #793
    mahamageehad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,673 ✭✭✭mahamageehad


    jameorahiely wrote: »
    I copied and pasted that sentence directly from their website and provided the link. :pac: So if it's not exactly true or misleading as you say, take it up with Marie Stopes.

    An abortion provider lying, who'd have thought!

    The text on their website is a little misleading, but most marketing is. You needed to copypasta a little more, the part I bolded below is the relevant piece.
    The Marie Stopes UK Belfast Centre offers the abortion pill(s) also known as the medical abortion treatment for women in Northern Ireland.

    About our Belfast abortion centre:

    Marie Stopes UK is the only charity which provides the abortion pill(s) in Northern Ireland. Please note that access to this treatment is subject to both Northern Irish Law and a medical assessment. You may not be eligible for this service in Belfast but can travel to our centres in England.

    Makes sense sure, why would we hear about so many girls flying over to the UK if they could just drive to Belfast? Just want to keep the facts straight here.


  • #794
    jameorahiely
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    mahamageehad wrote: »
    The text on their website is a little misleading, but most marketing is. You needed to copypasta a little more, the part I bolded below is the relevant piece.



    Makes sense sure, why would we hear about so many girls flying over to the UK if they could just drive to Belfast? Just want to keep the facts straight here.

    You seem suprised that abortions in NI are carried out in accordance with NI law. Abortions in Germany are carried out under German law btw. English law is routinely flaunted and clinics change the reason given by the patient to suit the law.

    It wouldn't suit a certain groups agenda for us to hear more about it (marketing, remember! ). Up to 9 weeks and 4 days a medical abortion can be got in NI with the correct paperwork from your doctor. It's not an abortion free for all. Is that what the Repeal side are aiming for? An abortion free for all?


  • #795
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    jameorahiely wrote: »
    You seem suprised that abortions in NI are carried out in accordance with NI law. Abortions in Germany are carried out under German law btw. English law is routinely flaunted and clinics change the reason given by the patient to suit the law.

    It wouldn't suit a certain groups agenda for us to hear more about it (marketing, remember! ). Up to 9 weeks and 4 days a medical abortion can be got in NI with the correct paperwork from your doctor. It's not an abortion free for all. Is that what the Repeal side are aiming for? An abortion free for all?

    Personally that would be the ideal to my mind. Medical abortion up to about that stage. With exceptions for extraordinary cases.
    I'd have been for more availability, later, before now, but I've changed my mind since the thin end of the wedge stuff became apparent.


  • #796
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    I've just come across this blog post, and I have to say I find it very misinforming on a variety of levels.
    First of all, she titles is "a beginners guide", I mean, what?
    But more substantially, she completely evades any mention of the PLPA, 2013, with an intention, I believe, to scaremonger and coerce people into being pro-choice without actual facts or reasoning.
    Again, I am pro-choice myself, but I've come to this conclusion after weighing up all the facts and considering all arguments from all angles.
    Is it just me who thinks this piece is totally ill judged and misinformed?
    She talks about the case of Savita- but fails to mention the act that was put in place after her death, which places the life of the mother above that of her child should her life be at risk.
    It's as if she's saying repealing the 8th will allow for abortion on demand.

    http://rosemarymaccabe.com/heres-im-pro-choice-beginners-guide/


  • #797
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,904 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    jameorahiely wrote: »
    Lol so your "no link, I suppose" and your "I find it hard to credit.. " really sugests you believed.

    Maybe I failed to explain that because I wasn't trying to explain that It's bizarre the way you are trying to twist the thread when it's all there in print. But whatever you feel you need to do!?!


    Would you protest a marie stopes clinic from opening here?


    Here's your original post, in full:
    jameorahiely wrote: »
    I was reading a good article the other day about conveyer belt abortions in the uk. The doctor signs all the forms without meeting the patient. The receptionist will change your reason for getting one to a reason acceptable under law. And off you go. 26 seconds was the average "consultation" The foetus remains are thrown in open bins and mentally challemged people are given abortions without their consent. Women who do decide to give birth to a disabled child are looked down on and asked why didn't they just kill their child.


    Fascinating stuff

    As I suggested in my reply to that post, it's a complete misrepresentation of the situation : you took an official report criticizing incidents of malpractice, a repor which actually led to the clinics involved being closed until they put things right - and you presented that as the usual situation in the UK now, and as something that was likely to happen here if we didn't all protest against Marie Stopes.

    You also added several allegations which are not even in the report, such as holding down vulnerable women, or women being looked down on for not terminating their pregnancies.

    You're lying, basically, and there's no point in having a conversation with someone who lies. So I won't bother trying.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • #798
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    anna080 wrote: »
    I've just come across this blog post, and I have to say I find it very misinforming on a variety of levels.
    First of all, she titles is "a beginners guide", I mean, what?
    Well... consider the source...

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #799
    mahamageehad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,673 ✭✭✭mahamageehad


    jameorahiely wrote: »
    You seem suprised that abortions in NI are carried out in accordance with NI law. Abortions in Germany are carried out under German law btw. English law is routinely flaunted and clinics change the reason given by the patient to suit the law.

    It wouldn't suit a certain groups agenda for us to hear more about it (marketing, remember! ). Up to 9 weeks and 4 days a medical abortion can be got in NI with the correct paperwork from your doctor. It's not an abortion free for all. Is that what the Repeal side are aiming for? An abortion free for all?
    No, you're attempting to completely twist my point. Why would I be surprised that people follow laws? How in the name of Jebus do you make a jump from me pointing out that it's almost as difficult to get an abortion in the north as it is in the south to "abortion free for all". :confused:

    Your exact quote was "Marie Stopes specialise in providing abortions. If it was legalised here they would be opening clinics, as they have done in the north. You can't seem to bring yourself to condem their actions. Fascinating." You're attempting to conflate abortion in the North with abortion in the UK. I would consider that scaremongering. An abortion can only be gotten in Northern Ireland if a woman's life is at risk or there is a permanent or serious risk to her mental or physical health. As per my previous post, there were only 23 abortions in the North in 2015, and that number has been steadily decreasing. Saying that any woman in the north can have an abortion before a certain time is patently untrue.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Well... consider the source...
    Isn't she a beauty blogger? I wouldn't put any more weight on her opinion than I do on any random poster on boards. It's not a balanced or very well informed piece, which is a pity as presumably many young girls read her blog. But she has the right to have an opinion, and I guess a hot topic is a hot topic. From a marketing perspective it'd be a missed opportunity for her not to talk about it. Ultimately people need to educate themselves and form an opinion.


  • #800
    Here we go
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 286 ✭✭Here we go


    osarusan wrote: »
    The doctor would have to take the fairly perverse step of waiting until an illness developed to the point that the woman's life was at risk before they'd be allowed to perform an abortion.

    This would be the same even if we were just going on the 2013 Act, as that too only allows abortion when life (as opposed to health) is at risk.

    So any condition that threatens a woman's health but not life couldn't be treated in a way that would endanger the pregnancy.

    That's my understanding of it anyway.

    That's also my understanding of the Savita Halappanavar case also - doctors had to wait until the illness threatened her life, and by that stage, it ended up taking her life.

    I could be wrong on that though.

    On the savita case it's my understanding she died of sepsis (blood poisioning ) due to her cervix being open and doctors not being made aware of it in a timely manner by nurse/midwife due to a failing to checkup on her On regular intervals and keeping doctors informed properly as far as I know


  • #801
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    anna080 wrote:
    I've just come across this blog post, and I have to say I find it very misinforming on a variety of levels. First of all, she titles is "a beginners guide", I mean, what? But more substantially, she completely evades any mention of the PLPA, 2013, with an intention, I believe, to scaremonger and coerce people into being pro-choice without actual facts or reasoning. Again, I am pro-choice myself, but I've come to this conclusion after weighing up all the facts and considering all arguments from all angles. Is it just me who thinks this piece is totally ill judged and misinformed? She talks about the case of Savita- but fails to mention the act that was put in place after her death, which places the life of the mother above that of her child should her life be at risk. It's as if she's saying repealing the 8th will allow for abortion on demand.


    I've no problem with that article at all. She's explaining why she's pro-choice. Seems quite coherent to me. She's not writing a dissertation on it.

    I think your view is now coloured Anna.


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  • #802
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    pilly wrote: »
    I've no problem with that article at all. She's explaining why she's pro-choice. Seems quite coherent to me. She's not writing a dissertation on it.

    I think your view is now coloured Anna.

    You might be right- and I'm not saying it isn't coloured. However my point is that she's called it "a beginners guide" so is therefore intending to influence, while completely omitting the PLLA and eluding to the fact that repealing the 8th will lead to abortion on demand.
    It's more than a summary of why she's pro-choice, she has intent to inform and influence here, but is lacking important information.
    It could have been a great piece, but to me its ill informed and lacking.


  • #803
    Live65a846d0ee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 209 ✭✭Live65a846d0ee


    You have to be idiot to support anti abortion. LITERALLY ALL OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ALLOW ABORTION YES ALL 27 THE ONLY ONE THAT DOES NOT IS IRELAND 1 OUT OF 28 COUNTRIES. How is this even a debate??? No ****ing **** Ireland was the least developed county until recently and was ruled by religious zealots. It clearly shows. I am waiting to be banned by one of the 1000 mods on this forum while the forum itself has only 500 users. More chiefs than soldiers. Oh and don't forget mod warnings on every thread have to keep that authority in check.


  • #804
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,822 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    anna080 wrote: »
    I've just come across this blog post, and I have to say I find it very misinforming on a variety of levels.
    First of all, she titles is "a beginners guide", I mean, what?
    But more substantially, she completely evades any mention of the PLPA, 2013, with an intention, I believe, to scaremonger and coerce people into being pro-choice without actual facts or reasoning.
    Again, I am pro-choice myself, but I've come to this conclusion after weighing up all the facts and considering all arguments from all angles.
    Is it just me who thinks this piece is totally ill judged and misinformed?
    She talks about the case of Savita- but fails to mention the act that was put in place after her death, which places the life of the mother above that of her child should her life be at risk.
    It's as if she's saying repealing the 8th will allow for abortion on demand.

    http://rosemarymaccabe.com/heres-im-pro-choice-beginners-guide/

    Because in a 2000 word blog post you expect there to be a full and concise history of everything relevant to the abortion debate i?


  • #805
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Grayson wrote: »
    Because in a 2000 word blog post you expect there to be a full and concise history of everything relevant to the abortion debate i?

    Grand. But to title something "a beginners guide to being pro life" and completely ignore and omit not only fact, but current official legislation, seems quite nescient to me. Again, I'm just stating my opinion, I'm not asking anyone to agree with me.


  • #806
    Absolam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Live65a846d0ee wrote: »
    You have to be idiot to support anti abortion. LITERALLY ALL OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ALLOW ABORTION YES ALL 27 THE ONLY ONE THAT DOES NOT IS IRELAND 1 OUT OF 28 COUNTRIES. How is this even a debate??? No ****ing **** Ireland was the least developed county until recently and was ruled by religious zealots. It clearly shows. I am waiting to be banned by one of the 1000 mods on this forum while the forum itself has only 500 users. More chiefs than soldiers. Oh and don't forget mod warnings on every thread have to keep that authority in check.
    Ireland also allows abortion. Like the other countries in Europe Ireland restricts when abortions can be performed, and our restrictions are on the same end of the liberal spectrum as Malta, Leichtenstein, San Marino, Poland, Northern Ireland, Andorra; all differ in the specifics obviously, but your assertion is LITERALLY false. Which begs the question who the idiot really is.... Oh, and according to the UN there are 44 countries in Europe.


  • #807
    jameorahiely
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Here's your original post, in full:


    As I suggested in my reply to that post, it's a complete misrepresentation of the situation : you took an official report criticizing incidents of malpractice, a repor which actually led to the clinics involved being closed until they put things right - and you presented that as the usual situation in the UK now, and as something that was likely to happen here if we didn't all protest against Marie Stopes.

    You also added several allegations which are not even in the report, such as holding down vulnerable women, or women being looked down on for not terminating their pregnancies.

    You're lying, basically, and there's no point in having a conversation with someone who lies. So I won't bother trying.

    Nope I haven't lied.






    Here's the bit about the vunerable woman who couldn't give consent
    • Whilst inspecting at one location we observed a woman with a
    known learning disability attend the clinic without a friend or
    supporter. The patient had noted on their record from the
    telephone consultation that they had learning difficulties.
    Although advised to attend the clinic with a friend or relative for
    support, they came alone and the treatment continued.
    Consent to treatment for this patient was not carried out in a
    way they could understand and we observed the situation was
    poorly and insensitively handled by doctors. It became
    apparent that staff had not checked discharge arrangements
    for this patient. Local leaders confirmed there was no pathway
    in place to support adult patients with learning disabilities,
    including no signposting to independent advocacy services.

    and

    During our inspection of one location, we observed an incident
    involving a patient who became very distressed, where we
    witnessed inappropriate behaviour by a surgeon. Although we
    wrote to MSI to inform the provider of the incident and ask for
    an update as to how it had been dealt with, the incident was
    not reported through the MSI incident reporting system.
    However we did not witness the practice of dealing with
    patients with a learning disability at the other seven clinical
    locations.
    • The national safeguarding lead had raised issues with the
    reporting of incidents in June 2016 at the clinical governance
    committee meeting. However, no action had been taken to
    address these concerns.
    A link to the full summary report for anyone interested in reading it. It's grim. http://www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/new_reports/AAAF9029.pdf
    If the report is too much for you to read, here's a summary from the telegraph
    Inspectors were forced to intervene as the patient with learning disabilities became distressed, amid a catalogue of failings uncovered at Marie Stopes clinics across the country.[Watchdogs described horrific scenes which left patients at risk of infection, with foetal tissue from a succession of terminations left in open waste bins, in one clinic
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/20/watchdogs-release-damning-reports-marie-stopes-abortion-clinics/


  • #808
    jameorahiely
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    mahamageehad wrote: »
    No, you're attempting to completely twist my point. Why would I be surprised that people follow laws? How in the name of Jebus do you make a jump from me pointing out that it's almost as difficult to get an abortion in the north as it is in the south to "abortion free for all". :confused:

    Your exact quote was "Marie Stopes specialise in providing abortions. If it was legalised here they would be opening clinics, as they have done in the north. You can't seem to bring yourself to condem their actions. Fascinating." You're attempting to conflate abortion in the North with abortion in the UK. I would consider that scaremongering. An abortion can only be gotten in Northern Ireland if a woman's life is at risk or there is a permanent or serious risk to her mental or physical health. As per my previous post, there were only 23 abortions in the North in 2015, and that number has been steadily decreasing. Saying that any woman in the north can have an abortion before a certain time is patently untrue.


    Isn't she a beauty blogger? I wouldn't put any more weight on her opinion than I do on any random poster on boards. It's not a balanced or very well informed piece, which is a pity as presumably many young girls read her blog. But she has the right to have an opinion, and I guess a hot topic is a hot topic. From a marketing perspective it'd be a missed opportunity for her not to talk about it. Ultimately people need to educate themselves and form an opinion.
    Nope. I stated there was a marie stopes clinic in NI, which there is.
    Abortions are available there up to 9 weeks and 4 days with the correct paperwork from your doctor, which they are. Logic woukd follow (to most) that they would open clinics here if it was legalised, as they are the uk's biggest abortion provider and already in the north, they would expand down here if our laws allowed them to.

    Sorry if I bamboozled you with more information (all accurate) than a 3 word slogan.
    People do need to educate themselves, I agree


    Fyi the law in England (when you read it you will understand why abortion clinics have to often change the reason given for termination, abortion on demand is not actually permitted under it)

    The law as it stands
    The Abortion Act 1967, as amended by the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990, permits the termination of pregnancy up to 24 weeks’ gestation where two doctors have formed the opinion, in good faith, that:
    ‘The continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family.’
    Furthermore, a pregnancy may be terminated up to birth where two doctors have formed the opinion, in good faith, that:
    ‘The termination is necessary to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; or
    ‘The continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk to the life of the pregnant woman, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated; or
    ‘There is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.’
    The law further requires that abortion takes place on NHS or approved premises.


  • #809
    Live65a846d0ee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 209 ✭✭Live65a846d0ee


    Absolam wrote: »
    Ireland also allows abortion. Like the other countries in Europe Ireland restricts when abortions can be performed, and our restrictions are on the same end of the liberal spectrum as Malta, Leichtenstein, San Marino, Poland, Northern Ireland, Andorra; all differ in the specifics obviously, but your assertion is LITERALLY false. Which begs the question who the idiot really is.... Oh, and according to the UN there are 44 countries in Europe.



    Your ignorance is astonishing and a case study by itself.


  • #810
    Absolam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Live65a846d0ee wrote: »
    Your ignorance is astonishing and a case study by itself.
    If you've any factual rebuttal to what I've said, I'm open to hearing it. If the only reply you can manage is personal observations about posters, you may wish to address your own apparent ignorance of the rules.


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  • #811
    Live65a846d0ee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 209 ✭✭Live65a846d0ee


    Absolam wrote: »
    If you've any factual rebuttal to what I've said, feel free to post it. If you're interested in making personal observations about posters, you may wish to address your own apparent ignorance of the rules.


    First of all I was taking about European Union
    Second the countries you mentioned allowed abortion in almost all the cases which include mental health. Ireland is the only red one. Also I don't count city states as countries like UK and Germany.

    Yeah yeah it's from Wikipedia but the picture is authentic

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law#/media/File%3AAbortion_Laws.svg

    Also Poland is another country like Ireland which is controlled by religious zealots which tells you everything you need to know. However it is still more liberal than Ireland.

    Are you joking me with these city states/Island states? Malta has a population that is LESS than half of DUBLIN.
    Liechtenstein? Really?
    San Marino? I am done, you have to be trolling.


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