bubblypop wrote: » What would be wrong with abortion clinics, if it was legal here? It's been said numerous times on this thread that people wouldn't be happy with our health services providing the service free, so therefore why wouldn't a clinic open?
jameorahiely wrote: » That particular organisation of clinics carried out abortions on vunerable women without their consent and threw fetal remains open top bins. Maybe your alright with that, but I find it absolutely discipible. They also advocate for no doctor necessary abortions. Your response suggests you think it fine. Bizarre.
jameorahiely wrote: » A fascinating response GUH don't only provide abortions, why would I want it shut down, bizarre. A more apt comparison would be letting the nuns run child care homes, even they buried their foetal remains. Marie Stopes specialise in providing abortions. If it was legalised here they would be opening clinics, as they have done in the north. You can't seem to bring yourself to condem their actions. Fascinating.
bubblypop wrote: » I'm not sure what you're trying to do here, but that article clearly was about an inspection that found fault at one of the clinics. Presumably, suitable penalty or sanctions were brought against it?
Tigger wrote: » i thought there were no abortions in the north?
volchitsa wrote: » You find everything "fascinating" but you don't seem able to explain what your objection is. Other than "It's abortion so they're evil" of course. Among all the centres providing abortions, a few were found to be guilty of malpractice and they were told to put it right. As I said, if we were to apply your logic to every Irish hospital guilty of some form of malpractice the HSE would close down, so unless you can explain why you think nuns running childcare is a better example (so were they all forcibly removed due to their malpractice btw? I must have missed where that happened) I still don't see what your point is.
Grayson wrote: » The investigation into Savita did place the blame on the 8th. There were over 20 points of failure in her treatment. Each led to her death. However the HIQA report into the events did say that if the pregnancy had been terminated when she requested it, she would have probably survived. It also stated that at that point the best treatment was a termination. And that she was refused it because of the 8th.
Grayson wrote: » The report is here. I'd recommend reading it.https://www.hiqa.ie/reports-and-publications/key-reports-and-investigations/patient-safety-investigation-report
Grayson wrote: » Pro lifers like to point out it was a string of failures in care that lead to her death. They're right, if she had been given proper care it probably have never reached the point where she needed a termination. However that ignores the point that she did need a termination to save her life at one point.
Wibbs wrote: » The IMHO oversubscription of the medical card in Ireland is another debate for another day. It's beyond mad that nearly half of all Irish people have one.
jameorahiely wrote: » The Marie Stopes UK Belfast Centre offers the abortion pill(s) also known as the medical abortion treatment for women in Northern Ireland.https://www.mariestopes.org.uk/clinic/marie-stopes-belfast-centre-northern-ireland
mahamageehad wrote: » Not exactly true and very misleading. The law is far stricter than in the rest of the UK as the 1967 Abortion act does not apply in Northern Ireland. Access to abortion is only permitted if a woman's life is at risk or there is a permanent or serious risk to her mental or physical health. Pretty much the same as southern Ireland. In fact, last year Stormont voted against amending legislation to allow terminations in cases of fatal foetal abnormality and sexual crime. Northern Irish women also aren't entitled to have their abortions on the mainland covered by the NHS according to a 2014 ruling. There was a case last year of a 19 year old being refused an abortion in the North. She couldn't afford to travel to the mainland UK so she bought abortion pills online and ended up with a suspended sentence for it. In 2015 only 23 abortions were carried out in Northern Ireland. 26 abortions were carried out in Ireland in the same year. The Marie Stopes UK Belfast Centre mainly acts as a marketing tool to send girls to their UK clinics.
jameorahiely wrote: » I copied and pasted that sentence directly from their website and provided the link. :pac: So if it's not exactly true or misleading as you say, take it up with Marie Stopes. An abortion provider lying, who'd have thought!
The Marie Stopes UK Belfast Centre offers the abortion pill(s) also known as the medical abortion treatment for women in Northern Ireland. About our Belfast abortion centre: Marie Stopes UK is the only charity which provides the abortion pill(s) in Northern Ireland. Please note that access to this treatment is subject to both Northern Irish Law and a medical assessment. You may not be eligible for this service in Belfast but can travel to our centres in England.
mahamageehad wrote: » The text on their website is a little misleading, but most marketing is. You needed to copypasta a little more, the part I bolded below is the relevant piece. Makes sense sure, why would we hear about so many girls flying over to the UK if they could just drive to Belfast? Just want to keep the facts straight here.
jameorahiely wrote: » You seem suprised that abortions in NI are carried out in accordance with NI law. Abortions in Germany are carried out under German law btw. English law is routinely flaunted and clinics change the reason given by the patient to suit the law. It wouldn't suit a certain groups agenda for us to hear more about it (marketing, remember! ). Up to 9 weeks and 4 days a medical abortion can be got in NI with the correct paperwork from your doctor. It's not an abortion free for all. Is that what the Repeal side are aiming for? An abortion free for all?
jameorahiely wrote: » Lol so your "no link, I suppose" and your "I find it hard to credit.. " really sugests you believed. Maybe I failed to explain that because I wasn't trying to explain that It's bizarre the way you are trying to twist the thread when it's all there in print. But whatever you feel you need to do!?! Would you protest a marie stopes clinic from opening here?
jameorahiely wrote: » I was reading a good article the other day about conveyer belt abortions in the uk. The doctor signs all the forms without meeting the patient. The receptionist will change your reason for getting one to a reason acceptable under law. And off you go. 26 seconds was the average "consultation" The foetus remains are thrown in open bins and mentally challemged people are given abortions without their consent. Women who do decide to give birth to a disabled child are looked down on and asked why didn't they just kill their child. Fascinating stuff
anna080 wrote: » I've just come across this blog post, and I have to say I find it very misinforming on a variety of levels. First of all, she titles is "a beginners guide", I mean, what?
Wibbs wrote: » Well... consider the source...
osarusan wrote: » The doctor would have to take the fairly perverse step of waiting until an illness developed to the point that the woman's life was at risk before they'd be allowed to perform an abortion. This would be the same even if we were just going on the 2013 Act, as that too only allows abortion when life (as opposed to health) is at risk. So any condition that threatens a woman's health but not life couldn't be treated in a way that would endanger the pregnancy. That's my understanding of it anyway. That's also my understanding of the Savita Halappanavar case also - doctors had to wait until the illness threatened her life, and by that stage, it ended up taking her life. I could be wrong on that though.
anna080 wrote: I've just come across this blog post, and I have to say I find it very misinforming on a variety of levels. First of all, she titles is "a beginners guide", I mean, what? But more substantially, she completely evades any mention of the PLPA, 2013, with an intention, I believe, to scaremonger and coerce people into being pro-choice without actual facts or reasoning. Again, I am pro-choice myself, but I've come to this conclusion after weighing up all the facts and considering all arguments from all angles. Is it just me who thinks this piece is totally ill judged and misinformed? She talks about the case of Savita- but fails to mention the act that was put in place after her death, which places the life of the mother above that of her child should her life be at risk. It's as if she's saying repealing the 8th will allow for abortion on demand.
pilly wrote: » I've no problem with that article at all. She's explaining why she's pro-choice. Seems quite coherent to me. She's not writing a dissertation on it. I think your view is now coloured Anna.
anna080 wrote: » I've just come across this blog post, and I have to say I find it very misinforming on a variety of levels. First of all, she titles is "a beginners guide", I mean, what? But more substantially, she completely evades any mention of the PLPA, 2013, with an intention, I believe, to scaremonger and coerce people into being pro-choice without actual facts or reasoning. Again, I am pro-choice myself, but I've come to this conclusion after weighing up all the facts and considering all arguments from all angles. Is it just me who thinks this piece is totally ill judged and misinformed? She talks about the case of Savita- but fails to mention the act that was put in place after her death, which places the life of the mother above that of her child should her life be at risk. It's as if she's saying repealing the 8th will allow for abortion on demand.http://rosemarymaccabe.com/heres-im-pro-choice-beginners-guide/
Grayson wrote: » Because in a 2000 word blog post you expect there to be a full and concise history of everything relevant to the abortion debate i?
Live65a846d0ee wrote: » You have to be idiot to support anti abortion. LITERALLY ALL OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ALLOW ABORTION YES ALL 27 THE ONLY ONE THAT DOES NOT IS IRELAND 1 OUT OF 28 COUNTRIES. How is this even a debate??? No ****ing **** Ireland was the least developed county until recently and was ruled by religious zealots. It clearly shows. I am waiting to be banned by one of the 1000 mods on this forum while the forum itself has only 500 users. More chiefs than soldiers. Oh and don't forget mod warnings on every thread have to keep that authority in check.
volchitsa wrote: » Here's your original post, in full: As I suggested in my reply to that post, it's a complete misrepresentation of the situation : you took an official report criticizing incidents of malpractice, a repor which actually led to the clinics involved being closed until they put things right - and you presented that as the usual situation in the UK now, and as something that was likely to happen here if we didn't all protest against Marie Stopes. You also added several allegations which are not even in the report, such as holding down vulnerable women, or women being looked down on for not terminating their pregnancies. You're lying, basically, and there's no point in having a conversation with someone who lies. So I won't bother trying.
• Whilst inspecting at one location we observed a woman with a known learning disability attend the clinic without a friend or supporter. The patient had noted on their record from the telephone consultation that they had learning difficulties. Although advised to attend the clinic with a friend or relative for support, they came alone and the treatment continued. Consent to treatment for this patient was not carried out in a way they could understand and we observed the situation was poorly and insensitively handled by doctors. It became apparent that staff had not checked discharge arrangements for this patient. Local leaders confirmed there was no pathway in place to support adult patients with learning disabilities, including no signposting to independent advocacy services.
During our inspection of one location, we observed an incident involving a patient who became very distressed, where we witnessed inappropriate behaviour by a surgeon. Although we wrote to MSI to inform the provider of the incident and ask for an update as to how it had been dealt with, the incident was not reported through the MSI incident reporting system. However we did not witness the practice of dealing with patients with a learning disability at the other seven clinical locations. • The national safeguarding lead had raised issues with the reporting of incidents in June 2016 at the clinical governance committee meeting. However, no action had been taken to address these concerns.
Inspectors were forced to intervene as the patient with learning disabilities became distressed, amid a catalogue of failings uncovered at Marie Stopes clinics across the country.[Watchdogs described horrific scenes which left patients at risk of infection, with foetal tissue from a succession of terminations left in open waste bins, in one clinic
mahamageehad wrote: » No, you're attempting to completely twist my point. Why would I be surprised that people follow laws? How in the name of Jebus do you make a jump from me pointing out that it's almost as difficult to get an abortion in the north as it is in the south to "abortion free for all". Your exact quote was "Marie Stopes specialise in providing abortions. If it was legalised here they would be opening clinics, as they have done in the north. You can't seem to bring yourself to condem their actions. Fascinating." You're attempting to conflate abortion in the North with abortion in the UK. I would consider that scaremongering. An abortion can only be gotten in Northern Ireland if a woman's life is at risk or there is a permanent or serious risk to her mental or physical health. As per my previous post, there were only 23 abortions in the North in 2015, and that number has been steadily decreasing. Saying that any woman in the north can have an abortion before a certain time is patently untrue. Isn't she a beauty blogger? I wouldn't put any more weight on her opinion than I do on any random poster on boards. It's not a balanced or very well informed piece, which is a pity as presumably many young girls read her blog. But she has the right to have an opinion, and I guess a hot topic is a hot topic. From a marketing perspective it'd be a missed opportunity for her not to talk about it. Ultimately people need to educate themselves and form an opinion.
Absolam wrote: » Ireland also allows abortion. Like the other countries in Europe Ireland restricts when abortions can be performed, and our restrictions are on the same end of the liberal spectrum as Malta, Leichtenstein, San Marino, Poland, Northern Ireland, Andorra; all differ in the specifics obviously, but your assertion is LITERALLY false. Which begs the question who the idiot really is.... Oh, and according to the UN there are 44 countries in Europe.
Live65a846d0ee wrote: » Your ignorance is astonishing and a case study by itself.
Absolam wrote: » If you've any factual rebuttal to what I've said, feel free to post it. If you're interested in making personal observations about posters, you may wish to address your own apparent ignorance of the rules.
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