Africa: The Never ending Litany of Misery

Pkiernan wrote: »

More white guilt idiocy.

When will people realise that Africans are just as corrupt as everyone else ?

Some Africans may be as corrupt as authorities elsewhere, but I guarantee you some Africans are also far, far more starving than everyone else. Does your ''white guilt idiocy'' throwaway remark make that somehow acceptable because I am failing to understand your motivation or train of thought. The kind of planetary civilisation your methodology would generate would be a frightening place.

Most African countries got independence in the early 1960s. They should be getting their act together soon.
Comments about exploiting African gold and minerals are a bit daft. These are commodities that trade in a competitive market.

wakka12 wrote: »

And is blaming colonianilism/white people for africas current struggles helping them?

A re-ordering of our approach to Africa that is not a relic of colonialism might help.

“In 2010, fuel and mineral exports from Africa were worth $333 billion, more than seven times the value of the aid that went in the opposite direction (and that is before you factor in the vast sums spirited out of the continent through corruption and tax fiddles). The empires of colonial Europe and the Cold War superpowers have given way to a new form of dominion over the continent that serves as the mine of the world — new empires controlled not by nations but by alliances of unaccountable African rulers governing through shadow states, middlemen who connect them to the global resource economy, and multinational companies from the West and the East that cloak their corruption in corporate secrecy,” Source - “The Looting Machine: Warlords, Oligarchs, Corporations, Smugglers, and the Theft of Africa’s Wealth,” by Tom Burgis

“In 2010, fuel and mineral exports from Africa were worth $333 billion, more than seven times the value of the aid that went in the opposite direction (and that is before you factor in the vast sums spirited out of the continent through corruption and tax fiddles). The empires of colonial Europe and the Cold War superpowers have given way to a new form of dominion over the continent that serves as the mine of the world — new empires controlled not by nations but by alliances of unaccountable African rulers governing through shadow states, middlemen who connect them to the global resource economy, and multinational companies from the West and the East that cloak their corruption in corporate secrecy,” Source - “The Looting Machine: Warlords, Oligarchs, Corporations, Smugglers, and the Theft of Africa’s Wealth,” by Tom Burgis

Is trade a bad thing?

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Its got interesting ideas and it does shift the conversation but on a deeper level its not a great book, there is numerous serious legitimate criticisms of it.

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Such as?

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Carthaginians and cities in Mesopotamia had sewage and viaducts long before anything in Europe

Africa has been raped and pillaged by western countries and now western companies for its
people - slavery, cheap labour
natural resources - oil, gold diamonds, land, gas etc

Nice story. The truth might be a little different. Too much of the tiny violins. African countries need to run things properly.

New York Times: Zambia Announces Deal to Sell Copper Mines By DONALD G. MCNEIL JR. DEC. 21, 1998

After two years of on-and-off negotiations, a deal to sell state-owned copper mines in Zambia has finally been reached, the Finance Minister has announced.
The Anglo American Corporation of South Africa will take over the important Nchanga, Nkana and Konkola mines, Finance Minister Edith Nawakwi said on Friday.

Copper is Zambia's most important industry and earns 56 percent of its export earnings. At independence in 1964, copper made the country, then Northern Rhodesia, one of Africa's richest nations. But decades of falling copper prices and Government failure to invest in technology turned the mines into a burden on the state. Recently, they were estimated to be losing $1 million a day.
The state-owned copper company, Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines, is the centerpiece of the aggressive privatization program started by President Frederick T. Chiluba after his election in 1991, when the state owned 80 percent of the economy.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

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Such as?

Ok been a fair few years since I read it but here is mine.

He's basically completely environmentally deterministic - culture and history only play a minor part in his view

Very selective examples - Why are Fertile crescents grains better than other crops

Untested examples - Fertile Crescent animals are easily domesticated, Zebra's etc aren't - yet Zebra's can be trained to pull carriages and we don't know that riding came first with horses in Eurasia (sites will say they cant be domesticated but thats arguing for calm ridable mounts in 1/2 generations).

Countering an argument thats not really taken that seriously anyway, I don't think you will see much serious scholarship saying the west rose because of inherent characteristics in the populations there.

His thesis falls flat in relation to later China - which was very advanced.

If you give a quick google you will see a lot better structured criticisms than mine.

You'l also see a lot of people calling him a semi-racist- I'd take these criticisms with a massive pinch of salt to be honest, a lot of anthropological academia is highly left wing, I don't think there is actually any racism its simply that for Diamond everything is down to environmental determinism and NOBODY has agency, conquerors or conquered.