What is your attitude to Western medicine?

farmerwifelet · 09-03-2017 10:47PM

as Dara O'Brian says when you are hit by a car do you want a (western) medical doctor or the person shouting "stand back everyone im an aromoatherapist i can save them"?

im opting for the MD and the pills

09-03-2017 10:52PM

Dara O'Briain : The reason it's called 'alternative medicine' is because if it worked, it'd just be called 'medicine'.

bnt · 10-03-2017 12:13AM

That's pretty much it: talking about Western vs. other medicines is a false dichotomy. Ever taken the bark of a white willow tree for pain? You have - or a purified or synthesised form - since it was trademarked by Bayer as "aspirin". One of the latest therapies for MS is derived from an insect-eating fungus that has been used in some Chinese medicine, though not for MS.

The other thing the OP might not get abouut "Western" medicine is the incredibly high standard of testing required before a drug can be sold. Multiple phases of testing to fine-tune the dosage, identify side effects, and gauge the effectiveness of the drug over time.

ROVER_1912 · 10-03-2017 12:16AM

i discovered how to make lsd on the internet

what a wonderful world

BalcombeSt4 · 10-03-2017 12:30AM

I like it a lot. Valium, Xanax & Codeine are my favs. Oh yea Zimos you gotta have Zimos.

Ayuntamiento · 10-03-2017 12:31AM

Realistically the plethora of pills that 'big pharma' have developed are in response to the fact that most people are lazy and want to pop a tablet rather than address the underlying issue that's causing their diabetes/blood pressure/high cholesterol, etc.
I have none of the aforementioned health issues because I run 60 miles per week, eat sensibly and have never smoked. I work with people who have every chronic health issue under the sun. I know for a fact that they could be 'cured' if they put the same hard work that I do into into maintaining their health.
God help the poor GP who actually calls you out on the fact that you're fat and basically killing yourself through your own inertia. If the aim of GP is customer satisfaction (it is a business after all) they may as well prescribe you a pill rather than tell you the truth.

snowflaker · 10-03-2017 12:33AM

Homeopathy ftw

bollox, give me ALL the pills!!!!

Capt'n Midnight · 10-03-2017 12:41AM

Once upon a time there was ye olde medicine.

Then it split into "alternative medicine" and the stuff that's proven to work.

That said For PROFIT medicine needs to be eradicated.
- Because of the need to pay for CAT scanners 1% of cancer in the US is caused by CAT scans.
- Big Pharma marketing in the USA and profit taking far outstrip the amount spent on R&D
- Big Pharma is only profitable during the patent phase, there is next to zero customer loyalty , so it's more or less a hostage situation.
- the insane costs of patented drug are the main reason a million people die every year from counterfeits

Capt'n Midnight · 10-03-2017 12:43AM

snowflaker wrote: »

Homeopathy ftw

yore doing it rong.

homeopathy works better when there's less of it :P

Graces7 · 10-03-2017 08:39AM

Ayuntamiento wrote: »

Realistically the plethora of pills that 'big pharma' have developed are in response to the fact that most people are lazy and want to pop a tablet rather than address the underlying issue that's causing their diabetes/blood pressure/high cholesterol, etc.
I have none of the aforementioned health issues because I run 60 miles per week, eat sensibly and have never smoked. I work with people who have every chronic health issue under the sun. I know for a fact that they could be 'cured' if they put the same hard work that I do into into maintaining their health.
God help the poor GP who actually calls you out on the fact that you're fat and basically killing yourself through your own inertia. If the aim of GP is customer satisfaction (it is a business after all) they may as well prescribe you a pill rather than tell you the truth.

That is very harsh indeed.

I was fit and careful and all you say when I fell ill. Highly trained in advanced classsical ballet Did not drink or smoke ,, careful diet

My problem with some aspects of Western meds, when you are on eg a medical card and have a condition difficlut to diagnose, is the pelthora of pills for every symptom

When i finally after 30 years gt the correct name for my illness, I was on 28 pills a day.. some to counter the side effects of the others.

I got myself off everything including benzos and now take only what I absolutely need and I decide what that is. and check everything offered.

Western meds can save and heal but it can also destroy. Had I not taken matters into my own hands?

Shenshen · 10-03-2017 09:11AM

Graces7 wrote: »

That is very harsh indeed.

I was fit and careful and all you say when I fell ill. Highly trained in advanced classsical ballet Did not drink or smoke ,, careful diet

My problem with some aspects of Western meds, when you are on eg a medical card and have a condition difficlut to diagnose, is the pelthora of pills for every symptom

When i finally after 30 years gt the correct name for my illness, I was on 28 pills a day.. some to counter the side effects of the others.

I got myself off everything including benzos and now take only what I absolutely need and I decide what that is. and check everything offered.

Western meds can save and heal but it can also destroy. Had I not taken matters into my own hands?

I would argue that this is neither the fault of the science of medicine in general, nor of the pharma industry, it's a failing on behalf of your doctors to diagnose correctly.
Not that I'd blame them, I understand that the single most difficult aspect in treating any illness is diagnosing it correctly. There are only so many symptoms a human being will display, and they could point to so many different things actually going wrong underneath the skin.
Some things are easy enough to identify, such as broken bones, but if you're trying to find the cause of, say, recurring migraines it can take years of observation and tests.

Jrop · 10-03-2017 10:49AM

While I advocate eating healthily and exercising. I think it can dangerous to go the 'alternative medicine' route.
Like the woman in New Zealand who thinks a vegan diet will cure her breast cancer.

Your Face · 10-03-2017 10:59AM

thelad95 wrote: »

By Western Medicine, I mean the plethora of pills available for any sort of physical ailment from a headache to heart disease.

So its pills you don't like.

10-03-2017 11:04AM

Western medicine is keeping my girlfriend alive and those stomach acid tablets you're on about stop her stomach from eating itself as a side effect of the steroids.

Should she just walk it off and accept the five-years-till-you-die prognosis that existed for her a few decades ago?

Mrs OBumble · 10-03-2017 11:04AM

If anything from alternative medicine works, we call it "medicine".

sbsquarepants · 10-03-2017 11:07AM

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Eat a stick of chalk....that will cure it

Must be what my baby is trying to tell me - she can't see a stick of chalk without an irresistible urge to eat it!:D

Jawgap · 10-03-2017 11:41AM

farmerwifelet wrote: »

as Dara O'Brian says when you are hit by a car do you want a (western) medical doctor or the person shouting "stand back everyone im an aromoatherapist i can save them"?

im opting for the MD and the pills

Yep, I'll forego my adherence to 'western medicine' when I see "Homeopaths Sans Frontieres" tackle and contain an ebola outbreak

Graces7 · 10-03-2017 12:08PM

Shenshen wrote: »

I would argue that this is neither the fault of the science of medicine in general, nor of the pharma industry, it's a failing on behalf of your doctors to diagnose correctly.
Not that I'd blame them, I understand that the single most difficult aspect in treating any illness is diagnosing it correctly. There are only so many symptoms a human being will display, and they could point to so many different things actually going wrong underneath the skin.
Some things are easy enough to identify, such as broken bones, but if you're trying to find the cause of, say, recurring migraines it can take years of observation and tests.

I agree with some of your words ie it was a total failiure by GPs etc. Disagree with what I have bolded.

But then this was the NHS in the UK then medical card here and if you have private health care here that is a very different matter. You can call the shots.

And the misdiagnosis lasted 30 years as inappropriate meds were masking reality and doing great and permanent damage.

Which is with me until the end of my days now

I have no trust left in drs frankly. None. Or basically for me in what they practice.

In the UK drs have same power as the priests used to have here and are all but impossible to deal with sensibly.

I got myself off damaging and highly addictive meds with no help except a wonderful internet group
So trust if you choose. I do not .
:eek:
Currently without a GP since my move, and I think I will leave it like that. Have had enough.

Oh and if you think well she does not give them a chance? The mess they have left my wrist in after a simple break ....

And yes I am very glad you get good care and I mean that. I really and honestly do. Bless you!

And the OP did ask !

Graces7 · 10-03-2017 12:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Western medicine is keeping my girlfriend alive and those stomach acid tablets you're on about stop her stomach from eating itself as a side effect of the steroids.

Should she just walk it off and accept the five-years-till-you-die prognosis that existed for her a few decades ago?

Of course she should not do that. So glad you have the right care for her. Agree re acid reflux; finally learned by accident that mine is part of my auto immune issues.

Took almost 40 years to see that though!

Graces7 · 10-03-2017 12:13PM

thelad95 wrote: »

By Western Medicine, I mean the plethora of pills available for any sort of physical ailment from a headache to heart disease.

From my experience, I think it's gone down the wrong path in that nearly everything is now directed towards treating symptoms instead of finding the cause of physical ailments and creating medicine to eradicate the cause. I don't buy into the big pharma conspiracy theory where cures are hidden but I do believe pharmaceutical companies do direct their efforts to creating symptom cures as opposed to disease cures knowing which is more profitable.

Take for example, the incredibly common condition of acid reflux, also known as heartburn. Any GP quack will tell you that between PPI's and antacids you'll be on medication for the rest of your life. So after millions of years of evolution apparently it's perfectly normal for acid to start flowing up into your throat. Of course there's a cause and cure but it's far more profitable for pharma to churn out treatment drugs which make billions annually.

What are your thoughts?

Someone close to me had appalling acid reflux for a physical reason. Wanting to get away from chemicals, we got slippery elm lozenges and no more acid reflux. and no side effects.

Graces7 · 10-03-2017 12:16PM

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

No matter what your symptoms, doctor google will always diagnose death is on the way

Not true... ah so not true... :rolleyes:

Graces7 · 10-03-2017 12:20PM

Academic wrote: »

This is a pretty unique definition of "Western medicine," to put it mildly.

Not in the UK on the NHS as an ordinary person. You get sent off with a prescription pdq . Lived like that and the description is perfect ..

Jawgap · 10-03-2017 12:21PM

Graces7 wrote: »

I agree with some of your words ie it was a total failiure by GPs etc. Disagree with what I have bolded.

But then this was the NHS in the UK then medical card here and if you have private health care here that is a very different matter. You can call the shots.

And the misdiagnosis lasted 30 years as inappropriate meds were masking reality and doing great and permanent damage.

Which is with me until the end of my days now

I have no trust left in drs frankly. None. Or basically for me in what they practice.

In the UK drs have same power as the priests used to have here and are all but impossible to deal with sensibly.

I got myself off damaging and highly addictive meds with no help except a wonderful internet group
So trust if you choose. I do not .
:eek:
Currently without a GP since my move, and I think I will leave it like that. Have had enough.

Oh and if you think well she does not give them a chance? The mess they have left my wrist in after a simple break ....

And yes I am very glad you get good care and I mean that. I really and honestly do. Bless you!

And the OP did ask !

that would not be my experience.

i lived in the Uk for a number of years and interacted with the NHS on a number of occasions. Two examples stand out for me......

......the consultant who was dealing with a minor liver complaint I was suffering from who followed up personally with me on results and who, when I expressed an interest in learning more about the condition, sent me on a series of journal articles to read up on and ask questions about.

....the team who treated one of my kids when they were seriously ill. The doctors took the time to explain everything about his care and make sure we had ample opportunity to ask questions. They also made sure we had access to a patient advocacy service. And then later we were invited in for a review of his treatment and the consultant and his team led us through every step they took and highlighted areas they felt they'd got wrong and admitted to stuff they'd have done differently

In my experience, the clinicians in the NHS were much more open to discussion and being questioned than HSE staff, and quicker to provide explanations and making sure you understood what was going on.

Academic · 11-03-2017 12:15AM

thelad95 wrote: »

[...]

Take for example, the incredibly common condition of acid reflux, also known as heartburn. Any GP quack will tell you that between PPI's and antacids you'll be on medication for the rest of your life. So after millions of years of evolution apparently it's perfectly normal for acid to start flowing up into your throat. Of course there's a cause and cure but it's far more profitable for pharma to churn out treatment drugs which make billions annually.

What are your thoughts?

To begin with, acid reflux disease isn't just heartburn. I'll get back to that. First let me address your claim, emphasized by me, about evolution.

It’s true that after millions of years of evolution it's "perfectly normal" for all kinds of problems to develop as one ages, including many that are fatal if not treated. But according to you we shouldn't treat these, we should just let "nature" take its course, even if that means going back to average life expectancies of less than 50 years. If you’re happy dying young because you prefer to go “all natural” that’s fine, but I’m pretty sure you're in the minority.

Regarding acid reflux disease, I take it you’re not aware of the fact that it’s an important cause of esophageal cancer.

snowflaker · 11-03-2017 12:39AM

ToddyDoody wrote: »

It is anyway irregardless

Irregardless???

kowloon · 11-03-2017 12:59AM

I was thinking of treating my insulin addiction with powdered tiger balls applied as a paste to my pancreas chakra.

Capt'n Midnight · 11-03-2017 01:20AM

Jrop wrote: »

While I advocate eating healthily and exercising. I think it can dangerous to go the 'alternative medicine' route.
Like the woman in New Zealand who thinks a vegan diet will cure her breast cancer.

Does she think she's as clever as Steve Jobs ?
He was worth billions and would probably be alive if he had listened to doctors.

B_Wayne · 11-03-2017 12:24PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Does she think she's as clever as Steve Jobs ?
He was worth billions and would probably be alive if he had listened to doctors.

Also think a distinction needs to be made between healthy diets and weird fad diets such as paleo etc. They're not necessarily healthy and can be equally as dangerous for health as eating crap. Remember Jobs used to have an obsession with eating a single type of vegetable each week. Suffered endless negative consequences and probably influenced his later health.

Widdershins · 11-03-2017 12:51PM

thelad95 wrote: »

By Western Medicine, I mean the plethora of pills available for any sort of physical ailment from a headache to heart disease.

From my experience, I think it's gone down the wrong path in that nearly everything is now directed towards treating symptoms instead of finding the cause of physical ailments and creating medicine to eradicate the cause. I don't buy into the big pharma conspiracy theory where cures are hidden but I do believe pharmaceutical companies do direct their efforts to creating symptom cures as opposed to disease cures knowing which is more profitable.

Take for example, the incredibly common condition of acid reflux, also known as heartburn. Any GP quack will tell you that between PPI's and antacids you'll be on medication for the rest of your life. So after millions of years of evolution apparently it's perfectly normal for acid to start flowing up into your throat. Of course there's a cause and cure but it's far more profitable for pharma to churn out treatment drugs which make billions annually.

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts: medicine from a traditional chinese herbalist and it cured my friend's chronic indigestion/reflux that was causing him to choke on food. He still gets it now and then if he tries to eat in a noisy environment but on a much less serious scale.

Modern medicine is invaluable for what it can do but it can't do everything and it is mostly symptom based so it often can seem like tackling a symptom and never treating the cause.

Another thing. Many diseases are really hard to diagnose. Sometimes when drs are at a loss, they jump to the conclusion that it's psychosomatic and there's nothing a patient can really do about it. That's the limit of their expertise so ''it's all in your head''. I find that sad. So I would look to alternative therapies if western medicine fell short for me. That's why people who sneer at them seem a bit ignorant to me.

Too late to multiquote, agreeing with Graces7 that DrGoogle doesn't necessarily predict death no matter what and will mention slippery elm lozenges to friend!

Graces7 · 11-03-2017 02:47PM

Jawgap wrote: »

that would not be my experience.

i lived in the Uk for a number of years and interacted with the NHS on a number of occasions. Two examples stand out for me......

......the consultant who was dealing with a minor liver complaint I was suffering from who followed up personally with me on results and who, when I expressed an interest in learning more about the condition, sent me on a series of journal articles to read up on and ask questions about.

....the team who treated one of my kids when they were seriously ill. The doctors took the time to explain everything about his care and make sure we had ample opportunity to ask questions. They also made sure we had access to a patient advocacy service. And then later we were invited in for a review of his treatment and the consultant and his team led us through every step they took and highlighted areas they felt they'd got wrong and admitted to stuff they'd have done differently

In my experience, the clinicians in the NHS were much more open to discussion and being questioned than HSE staff, and quicker to provide explanations and making sure you understood what was going on.

Then you were very very lucky and blessed indeed. And that was not my experience ; only wish it had been. And know many who were treated as negligently and wrongly as I was. In tears here by the way. So many memories of abusive and negiigent drs whose conduct robbed me of my career and nearly my very life.

Especially glad for you as there were children involved.

And of course this was years later than I was there?

I will remain quietly outside the "care" thank you, and my family overseas know my needs and have both my Power of attorney and my wishes for my care. Backed by our Barrister who knows what I went through. .

Comes to something when that is the only way an old lady can feel safe from abuse!

What is your attitude to Western medicine?

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