The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 09-03-2017 01:52PM

Knex. wrote: »

To be fair, if the Giants offensive line is even average, they would have to be considered contenders.

Then again, it doesn't really matter when its the Giants. See the 2011 rankings.

31st ranked Offensive Line, 32nd in Rushing, 29th ranked Defense. Eli just carried the team that year.

Eli is not going to carry the team in 2017 I think that's pretty safe to say.

HigginsJ · 09-03-2017 01:56PM

mcgratheoin wrote: »

Given what Marshall can bring to the table I think he'd have a better chance of a ring with half a dozen other teams (add in the Cowboys and maybe the Raiders as up and coming contenders). I'm not saying the Giants are bad, I'm just pointing out that wanting to win a ring was only a part of his decision making process and I would argue that it wasn't the number one priority.

Marshall wanted to stay in NY, to the point that you have to say he took a contract well below his market value(hello Pierre Garcon!!). If Marshall is happy to take the deal then I'm glad the Giants were happy to oblige.

Knex* · 09-03-2017 02:01PM

mcgratheoin wrote: »

I agree that the team looks decent on paper, but I'd argue that there is a difference between a team that could go far and a team that expects to be in their conference game at a minimum. I'd put the Giants below the Pats, Packers, Seahawks and Steelers if I was asked (at an early stage of the offseason) to name contenders.

Given what Marshall can bring to the table I think he'd have a better chance of a ring with half a dozen other teams (add in the Cowboys and maybe the Raiders as up and coming contenders). I'm not saying the Giants are bad, I'm just pointing out that wanting to win a ring was only a part of his decision making process and I would argue that it wasn't the number one priority.

From the teams you mentioned, only Pats and Seahawks are remotely realistic, or make sense, though.

So it would be those as the top tier for Marshall, if they actually want him, and Giants below. Giants he doesn't have to even move house and has friends such as Snacks in the building.

I can see how the move came about.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 09-03-2017 02:04PM

Knex. wrote: »

From the teams you mentioned, only Pats and Seahawks are remotely realistic, or make sense, though.

So it would be those as the top tier for Marshall, if they actually want him, and Giants below. Giants he doesn't have to even move house and has friends such as Snacks in the building.

I can see how the move came about.

For the Giants it makes complete sense. Quality receiver who works hard on the field and will make big plays for a snip at $6m

Garcon had a good year last year but I imagine the Browns, Jags, 49ers would all pay $10m + for Marshall.

Blut2 · 09-03-2017 05:00PM

Packers would definitely have been a better fit. And playing alongside Rodgers would have to be a huge draw for any WR wanting to maximise the last year or two of his career by playing alongside a true great QB. One who doesn't currently have any "star" WRs too, at that.

..but then again the lifestyle compromise going from NYC to Green Bay would be fairly large.

Billy86 · 09-03-2017 05:39PM

Packers don't need him by any stretch though. Could use a young, quick WR to stretch the field with Jordy turning 32 over the summer, but as much as Marshall is a class weapon, he is neither of those things. Otherwise there is Cobb, Adams, Montgomery at RB/WR, and (for the love of god it'll be unforgivable if he don't retain!) Jared Cook at TE.

Jordy Nelson absolutely is a star WR though, slow start to last season but he was one of the best in last 10 weeks or so and prior to his injury was again a top 8-10 WR in the league for a good two years before that. Also is consistently on the same page mentally as Rogers, which is extremely important.

letowski · 09-03-2017 05:59PM

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/839872223783575553

14.5mil pa. Would be an incredibly stupid move by the new Colts GM.

Blut2 · 09-03-2017 06:00PM

I do love Jordy, and he operates extremely well with Rodgers, but lets be honest here hes not a true star WR. Odell Beckham Jr, Julio Jones, Antonio Brown etc are the real top tier players, and I don't think hes quite there.

With the Packers WR corps its worth bearing in mind Rodgers makes them look a lot better than they actually are. With the exceptions of Nelson and Cobb the rest would be fairly mediocre playing for a less spectacular QB. Marshall would outshine them easily playing alongside Rodgers. God only knows what a player of OBJr's caliber would be capable of playing with Rodgers.

Billy86 · 09-03-2017 06:08PM

Blut2 wrote: »

I do love Jordy, and he operates extremely well with Rodgers, but lets be honest here hes not a true star WR. Odell Beckham Jr, Julio Jones, Antonio Brown etc are the real top tier players, and I don't think hes quite there.

With the Packers WR corps its worth bearing in mind Rodgers makes them look a lot better than they actually are. With the exceptions of Nelson and Cobb the rest would be fairly mediocre playing for a less spectacular QB. Marshall would outshine them easily playing alongside Rodgers. God only knows what a player of OBJr's caliber would be capable of playing with Rodgers.

But is Brandon Marshall one of those three players? Thing is, Marshall wouldn't get to be the #1 WR over any of those three at all, but he also wouldn't get to be the #1 WR over Jordy at all either. In a hypothetical one-off season I wouldn't take any WR in the league apart from Julio or Brown over Jordy for that Packers offense, and I doubt anyone in the GB management (or Rodgers) would either. With age etc factored in of course I'd take Beckham over Nelson too, but on a one-off season especially knowing how well Nelson and Rodgers link up, I wouldn't.

The offense is grand as is for the most part, at WR anyway as Adams is a decent one and had a 70 catch/1,000 yard season last year and outplayed Cobb, while Montgomery also as an option there played well, and besides it wouldn't make any sense for cap reasons plus I doubt Marshall would have wanted to go somewhere to compete for the #3 spot. That money is better spent on getting Jared Cook retained, making sure the RB position is OK by the start of the year, and strengthening the defense (CB in particular with Sam Shields gone).

ScummyMan · 09-03-2017 10:06PM

Jordy Nelson is absolutely a star WR, he has absolutely everything in his game, speed, route running, hands, physicality and size. The man led the league in TDs one year on from an ACL!

If I had to rank the top wide receivers at the moment it would look something like :

1. Brown
2. Julio
3. OBJ
4. AJ Green
5a. Jordy
5b. Mike Evans

Shedite27 · 10-03-2017 09:27AM

ScummyMan wrote: »

If I had to rank the top wide receivers at the moment it would look something like :

1. Brown
2. Julio
3. OBJ
4. AJ Green
5a. Jordy
5b. Mike Evans

That's probably the 1-6 alright but there's a bit of a drop off between 4 and 5.

brinty · 10-03-2017 09:31AM

ScummyMan wrote: »

Jordy Nelson is absolutely a star WR, he has absolutely everything in his game, speed, route running, hands, physicality and size. The man led the league in TDs one year on from an ACL!

If I had to rank the top wide receivers at the moment it would look something like :

1. Brown
2. Julio
3. OBJ
4. AJ Green
5a. Jordy
5b. Mike Evans

No love for #88 the playmaker Dez Bryant? Think he's probably 7th in full flowand would be 5c

mcgratheoin · 10-03-2017 10:11AM

HigginsJ wrote: »

Marshall wanted to stay in NY, to the point that you have to say he took a contract well below his market value(hello Pierre Garcon!!). If Marshall is happy to take the deal then I'm glad the Giants were happy to oblige.

Completely agree on the NY thing, I was initially just responding to Phatkev who suggested his only reason for leaving the Jets was to chase a ring. I do appreciate his point that the Jets showed a bit of decency by allowing him to leave, but I don't think they'd have done it if they felt he was an integral piece going forward.

On the other issue I'm not sure how far below his market value the deal ended up - what do you reckon he could have got at another potential playoff team (not a cap rich / talent poor team like SF or Cleveland).

Billy86 · 10-03-2017 10:53AM

brinty wrote: »

No love for #88 the playmaker Dez Bryant? Think he's probably 7th in full flowand would be 5c

Bryant can be near unstoppable when he is on, but he is very up and down. Both he and Nelson had excellent 2014 seasons but missed a good bit of time since, but here's an interesting stat I stumbled on last season in response to Nelson's missed 2015 putting him down the list in the eyes of some (which is a fair argument, the NFL is very much a 'what have you done for me lately?' league).

Since 2014:
Bryant - 22 games - 168 targets, 81 catches, 1,197 yards, 11 TDs
Nelson - 16 games - 152 targets, 97 catches, 1,257 yards, 14 TDs

brinty · 10-03-2017 11:05AM

Billy86 wrote: »

Bryant can be near unstoppable when he is on, but he is very up and down. Both he and Nelson had excellent 2014 seasons but missed a good bit of time since, but here's an interesting stat I stumbled on last season in response to Nelson's missed 2015 putting him down the list in the eyes of some (which is a fair argument, the NFL is very much a 'what have you done for me lately?' league).

Since 2014:
Bryant - 22 games - 168 targets, 81 catches, 1,197 yards, 11 TDs
Nelson - 16 games - 152 targets, 97 catches, 1,257 yards, 14 TDs

Great points there Billy, only thing i'd say in Dez cases is that was with 5 different QB's under center in Romo, Weeden, Cassell, Moore and Prescott as compared to A rod for Jordy. That chemistry with a QB is essential and i think Dez and Dak in 17 and Dez should be well over 1,000yds provided he's fully fit which he should be.

Billy86 · 10-03-2017 11:19AM

brinty wrote: »

Great points there Billy, only thing i'd say in Dez cases is that was with 5 different QB's under center in Romo, Weeden, Cassell, Moore and Prescott as compared to A rod for Jordy. That chemistry with a QB is essential and i think Dez and Dak in 17 and Dez should be well over 1,000yds provided he's fully fit which he should be.

Well yeah that is true and does need to be taken into account though he has had Prescott or Romo for 17 of those 22 (neither are Rodgers either to be fair, though both are excellent QBs and Rodgers while still very good wasn't quite Rodgers for the first 5-6 games of Nelson's return). Took a quick check and the other four were Cassel x4 and one with Weeden.

Dez in form might be the most unstoppable WR after Julio and maybe ODB (Brown is my personal favourite WR in the whole league, but he's more a guy who kills you with a thousand cuts by sheer consistency in my opinion - more of a Marvin Harrison/Jerry Rice than a Randy Moss/Megatron type), but I think it might be due to the market he plays in and the fact he's been a big name since his college days that it sometimes gets forgotten in the media that he can be fairly hot and cold.

Would still certainly have him top 10 though, don't get me wrong.

brinty · 10-03-2017 11:24AM

Fair play Billy agree with you on all that

coco0981 · 13-03-2017 03:15PM

Reading this doesnt bode well for brock, would you want him on your team even as a backup http://nypost.com/2017/03/12/texans-last-straw-brock-osweilers-eruption-at-having-to-play/

Realt Dearg Sec · 13-03-2017 03:45PM

coco0981 wrote: »

Reading this doesnt bode well for brock, would you want him on your team even as a backup http://nypost.com/2017/03/12/texans-last-straw-brock-osweilers-eruption-at-having-to-play/

Looks bad alright. Also his CV includes the fact that the Texans literally couldn't give him away unless they paid someone.

brinty · 13-03-2017 03:54PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Looks bad alright. Also his CV includes the fact that the Texans literally couldn't give him away unless they paid someone.

Careful what you say, don't the bears still need a QB

Blut2 · 13-03-2017 03:55PM

Good to see the Brown's sticking to what they know: terribly disappointing QBs.

If I was at the top of the incoming draft I'd be praying not to be picked by Cleveland.

Knex* · 13-03-2017 03:57PM

brinty wrote: »

Careful what you say, don't the bears still need a QB

You're forgetting about the stud that is Mike Glennon.

Realt Dearg Sec · 13-03-2017 04:02PM

brinty wrote: »

Careful what you say, don't the bears still need a QB

Mike Glennon lighting it up like it's cool bayba. :cool:

Realt Dearg Sec · 13-03-2017 04:02PM

Knex. wrote: »

You're forgetting about the stud that is Mike Glennon.

Also Mitchell Trubisky if he drops to third, I would say.

mcgratheoin · 13-03-2017 04:31PM

Blut2 wrote: »

Good to see the Brown's sticking to what they know: terribly disappointing QBs.

Osweiler? I don't think the Browns have any intention of keeping him on the roster.

On a separate note, who'd have thought a few years ago that you'd have had RGIII, Kaepernick and Cutler all available as UFAs - Unwanted Free Agents!

JaMarcusHustle · 13-03-2017 08:17PM

DeMarcus Ware has retired. One of my favourite pass rashers of all time. Always liked, up until he joined Denver, coincidentally.

HigginsJ · 13-03-2017 08:53PM

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

DeMarcus Ware has retired. One of my favourite pass rashers of all time. Always liked, up until he joined Denver, coincidentally.

Liked him even when he was a Cowgirl, great player.

13-03-2017 09:00PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

Liked him even when he was a Cowgirl, great player.

Himself and romo are the only two cowboy that I have found to be agreeable

Knex* · 14-03-2017 10:01AM

Eagles cut Chase Daniels. 7m in dead money. Although there's offset language in contract, so Eagles will get back whatever another team signs him for (Although won't count til next year, I believe).

Said it last year, but Eagles really botched the whole QB thing last offseason. I'm still not convinced that Bradford isn't the best option, even ahead of Wentz, long term.

brinty · 14-03-2017 10:06AM

Knex. wrote: »

Eagles cut Chase Daniels. 7m in dead money. Although there's offset language in contract, so Eagles will get back whatever another team signs him for (Although won't count til next year, I believe).

Said it last year, but Eagles really botched the whole QB thing last offseason. I'm still not convinced that Bradford isn't the best option, even ahead of Wentz, long term.

its the eagles, so heheheheheh as a cowboys fan...

looking at it cold strange that they'd take a $7m hit now unless they can't find a trade partner

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

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