Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Captain_Crash · 06-03-2017 03:50PM

Link here: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/air-lease-corporation-announces-lease-140000293.html

Jamie2k9 · 06-03-2017 04:05PM

186 seats so one assumes 12J, 174Y.

alancostello · 06-03-2017 04:44PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

186 seats so one assumes 12J, 174Y.

Sounds roughly inline with the 757 at 12J/165Y.

Airbus themselves say you'd fit 206 with 16J/190Y in a 2-2 J config with Y at 30" pitch, EI must be maintaining 31" pitch which I'm very glad to hear(as well as four throne seats in J), was worried they'd try to cram in as many seats as possible.

Locker10a · 06-03-2017 05:22PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

186 seats so one assumes 12J, 174Y.

Lets pray its not the new Flexi-Cabin disaster that airbus have introduced

Cloudio9 · 06-03-2017 05:32PM

alancostello wrote: »

Sounds roughly inline with the 757 at 12J/165Y.

Airbus themselves say you'd fit 206 with 16J/190Y in a 2-2 J config with Y at 30" pitch, EI must be maintaining 31" pitch which I'm very glad to hear(as well as four throne seats in J), was worried they'd try to cram in as many seats as possible.

Maybe I'm missing something but how does 1 inch less pitch result in an extra 16 seats in economy?

alancostello · 06-03-2017 05:43PM

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something but how does 1 inch less pitch result in an extra 16 seats in economy?

It's a combination of a couple of things, one extra row from all the saved 1 inches, one less door pair and the use of overwing exits(so 3 full door pairs and two overwing pairs instead of the standard 4 full door pairs), there's also a row of 2-2 seats at door 3. So essentially it's only two additional full rows and one row of four at door 3.

Tenger · 06-03-2017 06:47PM

duskyjoe wrote: »

7 A321 LR's announced 2019/20 delivery I hear.

Nibs05 wrote: »

International Airlines Group (IAG) is acquiring seven Airbus 321neo LR for Aer Lingus’ longhaul fleet.

The leased aircraft will be delivered in 2019 and 2020 and will be used mainly to replace existing Aer Lingus longhaul aircraft......
...................

Finally definitive info one of the worst kept secret in Irish aviation over the last 5 years!!

4 B757 replacements, 3 for expansion.
I guess that rules out any widebody additions beyond possibility two in 2018 then?
Late Summer 2020 Transatlantic fleet: 14 A330, 7 A321LR?

alancostello · 06-03-2017 06:54PM

Tenger wrote: »

Late Summer 2020 Transatlantic fleet: 14 A330, 7 A321LR?

Surely the A332s will have been retired? EI-LAX will be 21 years old at that stage.

Van.Bosch · 06-03-2017 07:29PM

Tenger wrote: »

Finally definitive info one of the worst kept secret in Irish aviation over the last 5 years!!

4 B757 replacements, 3 for expansion.
I guess that rules out any widebody additions beyond possibility two in 2018 then?
Late Summer 2020 Transatlantic fleet: 14 A330, 7 A321LR?

If the first 4 are replacements then no expansion for a while but possibly a blend. WW said to allow increased frequencies so hard to know.

Surprised there is still no definitive word in the A350's due in 2018. Are the slots for these known, if early 2018, whoever is getting them would want to start scheduling if 10-12 months out.

Foggy43 · 06-03-2017 07:44PM

On June 16, 2015 BA said they have a firm order for 18 A350-1000's with an option on a further 18. Delivery to start third quarter 2018.

Locker10a · 06-03-2017 08:07PM

alancostello wrote: »

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something but how does 1 inch less pitch result in an extra 16 seats in economy?

It's a combination of a couple of things, one extra row from all the saved 1 inches, one less door pair and the use of overwing exits(so 3 full door pairs and two overwing pairs instead of the standard 4 full door pairs), there's also a row of 2-2 seats at door 3. So essentially it's only two additional full rows and one row of four at door 3.

Thanks for the insight, is this with the space flex rear galley? Also by the sounds of it this design will include 3 toilets, one less than the 757, which will be annoying but i suppose thats the way aircraft are being sold now, who needs toilets when you can squeeze in those extra seats $$$ !!

alancostello · 06-03-2017 08:18PM

Locker10a wrote: »

Thanks for the insight, is this with the space flex rear galley? Also by the sounds of it this design will include 3 toilets, one less than the 757, which will be annoying but i suppose thats the way aircraft are being sold now, who needs toilets when you can squeeze in those extra seats $$$ !!

I can't say for certain about the galley, but I doubt it, it isn't a huge push to get those extra 16 seats over EI's config, and for long range flights they'd need all the galley space they can get. Space flex seems destined for ultra high density configs, Airbus say they can get up to 240 seats on the A321neo so that's gonna be saving inches any way they can.

I wouldn't be surprised if EI's A321LR's have four bathrooms to be honest, I'd imagine it'll be one at the front and three at the back, two directly behind the last row and then one against the rear bulkhead beside the galley. EI clearly aren't going for a high density product so I can't imagine they'd cut an additional bathroom for the sake of it, particularly for transatlantic it's one place you don't want to cut corners.

Locker10a · 06-03-2017 10:08PM

alancostello wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

Thanks for the insight, is this with the space flex rear galley? Also by the sounds of it this design will include 3 toilets, one less than the 757, which will be annoying but i suppose thats the way aircraft are being sold now, who needs toilets when you can squeeze in those extra seats $$ !!

I can't say for certain about the galley, but I doubt it, it isn't a huge push to get those extra 16 seats over EI's config, and for long range flights they'd need all the galley space they can get. Space flex seems destined for ultra high density configs, Airbus say they can get up to 240 seats on the A321neo so that's gonna be saving inches any way they can.

I wouldn't be surprised if EI's A321LR's have four bathrooms to be honest, I'd imagine it'll be one at the front and three at the back, two directly behind the last row and then one against the rear bulkhead beside the galley. EI clearly aren't going for a high density product so I can't imagine they'd cut an additional bathroom for the sake of it, particularly for transatlantic it's one place you don't want to cut corners.

That was my initial thought too, however some US airlines use the flex-cabin for some of their current transcon A321s,
So I wouldn't be that surprised if IAG/EI go with the same, and as for the galley space, yes they will need it, but do you think that will sway the decision? Id say the chance for an extra row of seats would easily win that argument

alancostello · 06-03-2017 10:14PM

Locker10a wrote: »

That was my initial thought too, however some US airlines use the flex-cabin for some of their current transcon A321s,
So I wouldn't be that surprised if IAG/EI go with the same, and as for the galley space, yes they will need it, but do you think that will sway the decision? Id say the chance for an extra row of seats would easily win that argument

Well they've already said they'll be configured with 186 seats, so unless they change their mind? I don't see it though.

Irishweather · 07-03-2017 01:09AM

alancostello wrote: »

Sounds roughly inline with the 757 at 12J/165Y.

Airbus themselves say you'd fit 206 with 16J/190Y in a 2-2 J config with Y at 30" pitch, EI must be maintaining 31" pitch which I'm very glad to hear(as well as four throne seats in J), was worried they'd try to cram in as many seats as possible.

Will 186 seats maintain an effective range for Transatlantic operations during winter months?

JCX BXC · 07-03-2017 01:10AM

Irishweather wrote: »

Will 186 seats maintain an effective range during winter headwinds?

Doesn't it do so currently with the 757's?

alancostello · 07-03-2017 09:59AM

Irishweather wrote: »

Will 186 seats maintain an effective range for Transatlantic operations during winter months?

Perhaps that's why it's 186 and not 206. I can't imagine EI are going to lease aircraft they can't use successfully year round.

Locker10a · 07-03-2017 01:31PM

alancostello wrote: »

Irishweather wrote: »

Will 186 seats maintain an effective range for Transatlantic operations during winter months?

Perhaps that's why it's 186 and not 206. I can't imagine EI are going to lease aircraft they can't use successfully year round.

I think 186 for this aircraft is already a very high capacity, I doubt they could fit anymore with a business class too.
I think it will be interesting to see if they use these A321s for Euro flights in between transatlantic crossings like that do with the A330. With 174Y they could sell the economy section as a normal 320, and sell upgrades to the business seats as per with the A330s on AGP/FAO.

goingnowhere · 07-03-2017 02:33PM

Given EI have gone for 20 seats less than max, thats a huge amount of weight out of the aircraft.

EI wouldn't be doing a deal unless it had the range required

Irishweather · 07-03-2017 03:30PM

goingnowhere wrote: »

Given EI have gone for 20 seats less than max, thats a huge amount of weight out of the aircraft.

EI wouldn't be doing a deal unless it had the range required

I think the point is that no current narrow body transatlantic flights have gone anywhere near this capacity level.. United often struggled with 4,000 mile routes with a much lower configuration, there is talk of Aer Lingus operating routes further into North America, that is where I question the capability of this aircraft.

alancostello · 07-03-2017 03:41PM

Irishweather wrote: »

I think the point is that no current narrow body transatlantic flights have gone anywhere near this capacity level.. United often struggled with 4,000 mile routes with a much lower configuration, there is talk of Aer Lingus operating routes further into North America, that is where I questioned the capability of this aircraft.

United's 757s have 169 seats, Aer Lingus' own have 177, so an increase of 9 seats to 186 on the A321LR is not some gigantic capacity leap, it's not even 5%. If they were replacing the 757s with A330s then sure I'd be worried, but it's essentially like for like, I don't see it as an issue.

Anything I've seen from EI has specifically mentioned the A321LRs for Northern East Coast US/Canada, where are you seeing the talk of going further?

Irishweather · 07-03-2017 03:45PM

Airiners.net. I know not a credible site but still it's a legitimate proposal.

alancostello · 07-03-2017 03:51PM

Irishweather wrote: »

Airiners.net. I know not a credible site but still it's a legitimate proposal.

I don't see it to be honest, Chicago is too far and already filling A330s. You're more likely to see them do double A321LRs to somewhere like JFK and move the A330 somewhere else that needs the range.

Tenger · 07-03-2017 11:03PM

I would concur. The A321LRs allow them to open up smaller cities in Eastern US/Canada or to increase/modify frequency to existing cities. EG. 2xA330 in Summer, 2x321LR in post Xmas low demand.
Using the A321LR to add frequency to existing routes thus 'frees up' the widebody asset to access cities further into the US/Canada (ie. Seattle/Vancuver/Dallas)
In the same way that upgauging the DUB-SFO route to an A333 this summer (mentioned by CEO a while back) will allow them to redeploy the A332's to a newer route being built up (LAX and later MIA)

The A321LR may also offer EI savings over the current B757 and allow them to return to year round flights to JFK ex-SNN.

roundymac · 08-03-2017 11:42AM

This is one for the pilots on here. Would a fully loaded A321LR make JFK without refueling ex Cork?

alancostello · 08-03-2017 11:52AM

roundymac wrote: »

This is one for the pilots on here. Would a fully loaded A321LR make JFK without refueling ex Cork?

Not a pilot but you don't need to be to answer, yes it would. They'd be able to fly to Barcelona or Madrid ex JFK.

kub · 08-03-2017 01:16PM

roundymac wrote: »

This is one for the pilots on here. Would a fully loaded A321LR make JFK without refueling ex Cork?

Interestingly Willie Walsh mentioned that the A321LR would be ideal for thin routes such as Cork at some press conference a few months ago.

JCX BXC · 08-03-2017 01:36PM

alancostello wrote: »

Not a pilot but you don't need to be to answer, yes it would. They'd be able to fly to Barcelona or Madrid ex JFK.

Fully loaded, corks runway, being the two key points. It can fly, but can it fly fully loaded?

alancostello · 08-03-2017 01:40PM

JCX BXC wrote: »

Fully loaded, corks runway, being the two key points. It can fly, but can it fly fully loaded?

7,000ft at 206 passengers. So with 186 Cork's 6,998ft should be fine, it's not as if it's hot and high.

kub · 08-03-2017 03:45PM

Is Cork the highest airport from sea level in the country?

Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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