"Significant" numbers of babies remains actually found

jimgoose wrote: »

I take it you're referring to Henry VIII of England and his spat with the Pope over the annulment of the former's marriage to Catherine of Aragon? Protestantism began around ten years before that in Wittenberg, Germany with Martin Luther's 95 Theses.

Yes, you are 100% correct, but it's quite possible it may have died out without H8 basically turning it into a state religion in sort of a similar way to the effect the Roman Empire had on boosting Christianity.

ThisRegard wrote: »

That clown is on Sean Moncrieff now.

Proof, if any is needed, that the poison is deeply embedded in society and the sickness has become acceptable/normal. The fact that he thinks he can get away with saying that is truly shocking. I hope C. Corless and the relatives of some of those dead children sue the arse off him.

pilly wrote: »

Jesus Christ, that's just unreal, although to be fair the majority of people would just see that as insanity.

What did make me take stock over the weekend though was the lack of response from the Tuam people. A reporter who was there on Friday notes that there was no-one at the sight and one small bunch of flowers.

Also people actually asked her to leave it alone.

The only person I know from Tuam said "well sure we knew that 2014 why does it all have to be dragged up again" and I get the feeling that's the general consensus.

Whilst I understand that they must feel ashamed, unfortunately shame is a necessary emotion so as that mistakes from the past are not repeated.

Could they now show some love and support?

Anyone on this thread from Tuam might tell me what the actual local response is?

It's not the general consensus. Anybody I know from the area support the tireless work of Mrs. Corless. Most were already aware of the mass grave, that it had been reported decades ago to the authorities who claimed it was a famine grave and filled it in with rubble.

Everyone I know from Tuam - and from the West of Ireland - are heartbroken and disgusted at this. Not a single person that I know has indicated that it should be left alone or not fully investigated. It may well be that one or two are vocal about it being left alone but they do not speak for the majority. Or maybe the papers like that angle and have been selectively quoting I don't know.

nelly17 wrote: »

Is it not Tusla?

It has been said that Galway County Council received all the documents from the Tuam Mother and Baby home, many years ago.

smurgen wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/tuam-babies-scandal-is-fake-news-claims-the-catholic-league-35504516.html lovely people.deny deny deny,deflect,deflect,deflect.

I welcome into the debate opinions such as Donahue's. I welcome them with open arms. Let them talk. Let their mask of respectability slip. let their hatred shine through.

I don't believe in God. That's just my outlook. But I do believe there was a preacher called Jesus Christ. His message was simple yet dangerous.

Love each other. Don't be a dick. Be grand. He preached using fable like and easy to understand analogies.
He was like a nomad Tony Robbins, just without the power point slides or the veneers. His message, his sermons developed into Jesus mania as he toured. While there were other preachers who made similar pronouncements, they didn't get their message across in simple terms or as effectively as Jesus.

But his message was dangerous and it was spreading uncontrolled. It's what got him eventually killed by the Romans. He was essentially a celebrity in his own time but he was just a mortal man. He became bigger than 'God'. He was given a 'god' like status such was the power of his basic message of Love one another. The concept of God the creator was well established during the time of Christ. His revolutionary notion was that we are all 'God', that he is each and every one of us. It was his unique selling point. It was a new concept. It was a dangerous one. If we are all God and if you believe that God is Love, then if you do not Love then you are against that God. People loved it and followed it. But the same oppressive forces which we are familiar with did not like it. To them God was a tool that could be exploited to provoke fear and ultimately control over people.

His message is what separated him from a crowded field. It would ultimately prove to be his fatal mistake. This status brought a trumped up charge of blasphemy against him. He was put on trial and was executed. He died for his hippy like beliefs of a common humanity, of love. He became a threat to Rome such was the popularity of his ideas but he was ahead of his time and they got rid of him.

He, and this 'God' like attribution was subsequently exploited. He was re-invented to be divine, a figure head for a new religion, created by subsequent generations of his fan base. They called it Christianity. Such was the lack of documentation and historical artifacts of the time, his life, his legacy and his message was a blank canvas for this new Church. Church leaders were free to create 'scripture' as they saw fit. The narrative, the cult of Jesus was created in the centuries following his death e.g. God had cleansed his mothers soul, so she could conceive him as a virgin, he came, tried to save us, failed and died to save our souls. Now. Follow him and you'll save yourself. He'll be back. You'll be sorry if you don't. Purple Monkey Dishwasher. The actions and deeds ascribed to the characters in the Bible, transubstantiation, heaven, hell, purgatory, are as ridiculous to me as the concepts of Xenu and Thetans in another 'Religion', Scientology. The multitude of authors who collaborated on the hodge podge that was the 'Bible' were essentially L Ron Hubbards of their day enthused with 'divine' intervention. When the printing press came along, and the content was solidified with the King James version, it became an instant classic, and topped the best sellers list in the centuries that followed.

Jesus was re-imagined as being the son of God, the sky phantom who had created the earth, water, fire and air. The message of Christ thus became a fable, a spiritual exaggeration of his hippy philosophers message of love. But the exploitation didn't end there. While most used this new church to practice what they preached, an element within, which grew over time, came to understand how the growing popularity and globalization of it (see The Crusades), could be exploited to achieve such wonderful things as; subjugation, suffocating control, and dominance. The best way to look at the church in Ireland is that it is a Wolf in Sheeps clothing.

While elements within the church will preach love, forgiveness, understanding and respect of each other under the love of 'God', there were other elements within who would exploit the idea of this God as a tool to scaremonger, intimidate and frighten. The whole organisation was based on suspension of disbelief. That a sky wizard had created everything, including us. The world was 6,000 years old. And that was that. If you had the intelligence to see it was all BS, you also had the intelligence to shut up about it too. Because when you're in a nest of vipers, you dare not move or make a sound. This inertness in society became normalized over time. A stifling, suffocating status quo was established. It was this inertness, submissiveness to the all ruling Church that resulted in such a scandal as the Tuam M&B homes.

While many would clash openly with the elements in the church, they were in the minority. A powerful defence mechanism was developed by the church. Anyone questioning it, asking pointed questions, demanding accountability was just being tempted by the devil. This worked beautifully to keep dissent contained. The church and the authority it carried steadily became infallible in our country. Anyone openly questioning it risked social isolation. It became too much of a risk to toy with Excommunication, a serious consequence, a proverbial death sentence for many, particularly rural communities.

The church in Ireland focused on children. They grasped control of the education system here. They got them young. The same negative elements recognized the enormous power and influence they could wield within such a framework. A coup of Irish hearts and minds. People who were inherently decent human beings, corrupted by a nefarious cult which was thoroughly enmeshed in society and our value system.

Such was the power given to the Church by the early state, it attracted such people who were attracted to exploiting such unbridled power. Thus heartless bullies, ambitious socipaths, sadistic bitches, malignant narcisists and power hungry and violent psychopaths flocked to the church. Those of such an otherwise perverted persuasion would exploit being a 'wolf in sheep's clothing' as cover for decades of horrific, endemic child sexual abuse, rape, sodomy. They would intimidate, harass and belittle anyone, who would dare question them. Even from their own order. They would suppress criticism. The domineering church became normalized.

The mother and babies homes were a product of all of this. Of exploitation, subjugation, dominance, control, manipulation, abuse, bullying, harassment. These women had babies. The most natural thing in the world. Absurd as it seems now, they did not have those babies within the framework society had been brainwashed into believing was the correct way. Not within a marriage, which was conducted in the eyes of holy God. 'God' needed to be witness to the marriage. A toxic dichotomy developed between 'pure' children, born under God, and 'unclean' babies, whose souls were corrupted by their mother, herself tempted by The Devil. Her covert punishment was deserved, she was a sinner, undeserving of care, help, love or support. It is both infuriating and depressingly sad to read accounts from those women.

They were thrown to the wolves. Of Mercy. Of Charity.

The way the were treated was all as far away from the message of compassion that Christ had espoused and preached about as was possible. The arrogant hypocrisy of those who are responsible is suffocating.

When I read opinions from clowns like Donahue, I only see the wolf in sheeps clothing. So let the wolves show up. And let them vindicate people like Catherine Corless.

pilly wrote: »

It matters because it's on their doorstep. I don't think they should come out crying but would it kill them to bring some flowers down there, hold a vigil or something? It would show their support.

Why are you sure they're disgusted? Do you know them all?

Here's a quote from this mornings news from Paul Redmond:

Tuam must not be seen in isolation
It was the fifth biggest of the nine so called “Mother and Baby Homes” and it is the tip of the iceberg for deaths which amount to at least 6,000 babies and children across the nine homes.


There are over 227 confirmed deaths in the notorious Bethany Home in Dublin, and recent research has revealed the names of over 200 babies and children buried in the Angel’s Plot at Castlepollard Mother and Baby Home. These range from a few hours old to over two years.


There were also at least 77 confirmed stillbirths in Castlepollard, above and beyond the 200 registered deaths. There will be hundreds of unregistered stillbirths discovered in Tuam too.


The worst is yet to come as the huge behemoths of Saint Patrick’s, Bessboro and Sean Ross Abbey have yet to be revealed. But it is likely that the total for these three “Homes” alone will be well over 4,000 babies and children buried in shoeboxes and rags.

Seems like every community in Ireland should be out protesting and demanding inquiries into their local Home.

Neyite wrote: »

Here's a quote from this mornings news from Paul Redmond:


Seems like every community in Ireland should be out protesting and demanding inquiries into their local Home.

Seems like it but there is not another 6 months in power for our politicians in it for them - they got that 2 weeks ago by setting up the Maurice McCabe Tribunal so sadly as per usual its a case of 'move along, nothing to see here'

laoch na mona wrote: »

Worst things the Brits did was build Maynooth

The worst thing the Brits did in Ireland was let over a million starve to death.

The worst thing the Brits did? Hmmm, some fierce competition there.

pilly wrote: »

Small village attitudes HAVE to change for these problems ever to be fully tackled.

Fish rots from the head - small villages in Ireland are a long way down the blame list .

And don't forget the homes in the big urban areas . Small villages were effectively powerless in these affairs in the 50's and 60's .

pilly wrote: »

It matters because if you've ever lived in a small village in Ireland you'd know the mind-set of people who live in small villages is completely different to what is generally the norm in the country as a whole and it's important that this changes.

If it doesn't then this will happen again. Maybe not a mass graveyard but abuse by the local priest brushed under the carpet etc.

It does matter to me how the people of Tuam feel about this. I haven't said that they're all ignoring it, I've simply asked the question.

It may not matter to you but it does to me and many others in the country. And I'm damn ****ing sure it matters to any survivor of the home who probably still lives in Galway. There are people still alive effected by this bubblypop and just because you don't want to see support out on the street doesn't mean they don't.

Small village attitudes HAVE to change for these problems ever to be fully tackled.

You really don't get it do you?

Its because of the people of Tuam that this grave was ever uncovered in the first place.
The townfolk went to the Gardai in 1974 when two boys discovered the grave.
The townfolk were the ones who created the shrine to those buried there several decades ago.
The townfolk were the ones who refused to forget that there were bodies there.
They were the ones that refused to accept Galway Co Co's assertion that it was a famine grave, and always believed it was a grave from the Home.
They were the ones that stopped and said a prayer for those baptised souls when no priest or nun ever did.
They were the ones called liars by the authorities and the orders for years.
They were vindicated when Mrs Corless did her research and compiled a list of potential names to put to those bodies there.

Others might try to sweep this away, white wash it or drag out a lengthy inquiry until all that should have to answer for this are well in their consecrated grave. But it wont be the Tuam people who do that. They've wanted this day to come for decades.

But the paper grabbed one quote from auld grump who likely doesn't want her garden dug up in an inquiry and suddenly 'nobody' cares?