"Significant" numbers of babies remains actually found

Noddyholder · 05-03-2017 06:07PM

The truth is that a lot of our business, political and media elite are the same kind of people they have been since the foundation of this state. The truth is that we are not and never have been ‘all on the one road’.

please helpThank YOU · 05-03-2017 06:14PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It doesn't need to be in God's name, and it hasnt changed:

Aras Attracta
Direct provision
Grace
Carrickmines (take a look at the Traveller ethnicity status thread for another disgusting read).

The question is, can we ever find a leader who can make Irish people face up to their depravity and get over it.

Lets Not Forget Garda Maurice Mccabe and the many more like this Man who stood up for the Greater Good wished the people of Tuam Galway had a Brave Man our Women to stand up thats the only way the likes of Tuam Galway Grace Waterford its Time for change but who have we got to to this????????

Zebra3 · 05-03-2017 06:33PM

So will the latest revelations change anything for most people?

We're about two decades since we found out that the RC Church was little more than a massive paedophile ring.

Yet people still went ahead and got married in their droves in Catholic Churches, lined the little babies up for christenings, and again for the communions and all that crap. Handing money over to a known corrupt, criminal institution.

Will the latest revelations of mass murder change anything or are we all still afraid to upset the grandparents?

Or will people grow a pair and do the right thing?

05-03-2017 06:36PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Will the latest revelations of mass murder change anything or are we all still afraid to upset the grandparents?

Or will people grow a pair and do the right thing?

Am I missing something?

I understood that the story was about the disgraceful treatment of children and the callous disposal of their bodies.

But is there an allegation that they were murdered?

Zebra3 · 05-03-2017 06:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Am I missing something?

I understood that the story was about the disgraceful treatment of children and the callous disposal of their bodies.

But is there an allegation that they were murdered?

You haven't noticed all the talk about deliberate malnourishment and neglect?

Grayson · 05-03-2017 07:22PM

I'll just leave this here (It's from a schoolbook called "Christ’s Life In Us" published by CJ Fallon. It was taken from a US schoolbook originally and reprinted and used in Ireland in the 70's)

https://twitter.com/Oireachtas_RX/status/474969960167792640

Fleawuss · 05-03-2017 07:39PM

infogiver wrote: »

Well what do you expect? Everyone in Tuam knew what was going on at the time, everyone in the country knew, most people were fine with it.
The conditions in the institutions reflected the general feeling towards "fallen" women that was prevalent at the time.
The focus just happens to be on Tuam today

And why did people think that way. I've left out the question mark to make it obvious it's a rhetorical question.

BlinkingLights · 05-03-2017 07:53PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

...
Yet people still went ahead and got married in their droves in Catholic Churches, lined the little babies up for christenings, and again for the communions and all that crap. Handing money over to a known corrupt, criminal institution.

Will the latest revelations of mass murder change anything or are we all still afraid to upset the grandparents?

Or will people grow a pair and do the right thing?

Not all of us did!

I formally defected and told them exactly why too!

I could have just let not turned up for anything as I'm totally nonreligious anyway but, just felt I needed to drive the point home and I do not want to be counted in the statistics as a church member.

Quite honestly, very glad I did. No regrets whatsoever.
I'm a very happy atheist with probably a humanist outlook. Feel absolutely nothing missing from my life.

BlinkingLights · 05-03-2017 07:56PM

Grayson wrote: »

I'll just leave this here (It's from a schoolbook called "Christ’s Life In Us" published by CJ Fallon. It was taken from a US schoolbook originally and reprinted and used in Ireland in the 70's)

https://twitter.com/Oireachtas_RX/status/474969960167792640

I'd say plants! They're usually not judgemental about unmarried plants having seedlings!

BlinkingLights · 05-03-2017 08:08PM

Also don't forget this relatively recent one from a primary school teachers' exam paper

www.thejournal.ie/atheists-criticise-religion-exam-at-student-teacher-college-368004-Feb2012

naughto · 05-03-2017 08:10PM

The bishop of tuam saying he is shocked by what is being releved is a load of bo11ox that pr1ck knew well what happened there and was more than likely told to say nothing

Seth Brundle · 05-03-2017 08:19PM

Grayson wrote: »

You're right. The majority of people who have a problem with people throwing a baby's body into a sewer are obviously hypocrites since they own smart phones.

It's definitely not whataboutry at all.

I think you are deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying.
There is ample evidence to show how as a society we don't care about our most vulnerable. This is nothing new. We turn a blind eye when it doesn't suit us.

As for my iPhone comment, yeah, it is relevant. People are rightfully criticising the church for its evil deeds against children yet happily using technology that is widely reported as using child labour in its manufacture. You don't see the hypocrisy?

jameorahiely · 05-03-2017 08:33PM

kbannon wrote: »

I think you are deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying.
There is ample evidence to show how as a society we don't care about our most vulnerable. This is nothing new. We turn a blind eye when it doesn't suit us.

As for my iPhone comment, yeah, it is relevant. People are rightfully criticising the church for its evil deeds against children yet happily using technology that is widely reported as using child labour in its manufacture. You don't see the hypocrisy?

Not only do we turn a blind eye, we see it as some sort of status symbol, iphones, designer clothes etc. All made by little children,

Colser · 05-03-2017 08:36PM

jameorahiely wrote: »

Not only do we turn a blind eye, we see it as some sort of status symbol, iphones, designer clothes etc. All made by little children,

Is this a myth or true?Is there proof of this?Genuine question BTW...

BlinkingLights · 05-03-2017 08:39PM

I'd point out that Apple actually strikes off and actively pursues any supplier that has been found to be using child labour. They struck off a whole load of metal suppliers over the last few years. It tends to become the lightening rod for media stories on these things, but is actually one of the only electronics companies with an actual policy and active policing of this stuff.

The issue isn't usually the companies themselves, but because the industry is buying basic materials which are manufactured into subcomponents and components by suppliers, that there's a long and complicated supply chain before it ever arrives in the smartphone or other electronics makers' production facility at all.

There are a lot of unscrupulous supplies of basic commodity materials to the electronics and other industries. However you can't just say that because people own any electronic device that they somehow are no longer able to comment on this situation in Ireland in Tuam.

The two things are different issues and both are highly disturbing.

The electronics and manufacturing industries need to be pressurised into cleaning up their supply chains. There is no question about that and it is being pushed very hard. It needs to be intensive though.

However, that does not justify Tuam or remove anyone's right to comment on how utterly despicable what went on there was.

Seth Brundle · 05-03-2017 08:52PM

BlinkingLights wrote: »

However, that does not justify Tuam or remove anyone's right to comment on how utterly despicable what went on there was.

I don't think anyone has justified Tuam or tried to remove any comments on it.
There are some elements of hysteria and unfounded allegations being thrown around but that's understandable.

Seth Brundle · 05-03-2017 08:55PM

Colser wrote: »

Is this a myth or true?Is there proof of this?Genuine question BTW...

Its an ongoing problem and one that always seems to be reported upon before action is made.
Even the other day...
http://fortune.com/2017/03/03/apple-cobalt-child-labor/

How come journalists get this info but Apple or Samsung can't?

Grayson · 05-03-2017 08:59PM

kbannon wrote: »

I think you are deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying.
There is ample evidence to show how as a society we don't care about our most vulnerable. This is nothing new. We turn a blind eye when it doesn't suit us.

As for my iPhone comment, yeah, it is relevant. People are rightfully criticising the church for its evil deeds against children yet happily using technology that is widely reported as using child labour in its manufacture. You don't see the hypocrisy?

It's called whataboutery. Someone points out something bad (like dumping baby bodies in a sewer) and someone replies by pointing out something bad that is completely unrelated.

Nuns dumping babies bodies in a sewer leads to "you're a hypocrite if you own a mobile phone".

Seth Brundle · 05-03-2017 09:07PM

Grayson wrote: »

It's called whataboutery. Someone points out something bad (like dumping baby bodies in a sewer) and someone replies by pointing out something bad that is completely unrelated.

Nuns dumping babies bodies in a sewer leads to "you're a hypocrite if you own a mobile phone".

So it was wrong for me to point out how this happened partly because people didn't care and despite the piousness going on at the moment we continue to not care about the vulnerable.
Remember that all those tasked with looking after the vulnerable in these homes weren't just nuns.
For this to have happened, the inspectors, the medical staff, the locals and so on all knew and turned a blind eye because if they didnt then they would have done something. But they didn't do anything because the kids didn't matter.
Show me one iota of evidence that they did matter. Show me if people's concern for the most vulnerable has really, really changed.

Fleawuss · 05-03-2017 09:17PM

kbannon wrote: »

So it was wrong for me to point out how this happened partly because people didn't care and despite the piousness going on at the moment we continue to not care about the vulnerable.
Remember that all those tasked with looking after the vulnerable in these homes weren't just nuns.
For this to have happened, the inspectors, the medical staff, the locals and so on all knew and turned a blind eye because if they didnt then they would have done something. But they didn't do anything because the kids didn't matter.
Show me one iota of evidence that they did matter. Show me if people's concern for the most vulnerable has really, really changed.

Masterful spin. Really well done. Except for one line: "they didn't do anything because the kids didn't matter". That should read "because the church had educated them and dominated them to such an extent that they dare not question what a church run institution was doing". You'll find that a common theme across all the child abuse cases too. If you actually can face it and admit the RCC is a disgrace.

BorneTobyWilde · 05-03-2017 09:21PM

kbannon wrote: »

Show me one iota of evidence that they did matter. Show me if people's concern for the most vulnerable has really, really changed.

It has changed in Ireland, of course there are parts of the world where stuff like this still happens, but happens in secret.
What happened here was not a one person operation, it was a practice that was known to many, and covered up by those who knew. It was normal and the ''right thing to do '' the influence of the church was overbearing on the nuns. I blame the church not the nuns for obeying.

nhunter100 · 05-03-2017 09:23PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote:

I blame the church not the nuns for obeying.

The Nuremburg defense, "I was only following orders". Not acceptable, where was the Nuns empathy?

Roger_007 · 05-03-2017 09:24PM

Fleawuss wrote: »

Masterful spin. Really well done. Except for one line: "they didn't do anything because the kids didn't matter". That should read "because the church had educated them and dominated them to such an extent that they dare not question what a church run institution was doing". You'll find that a common theme across all the child abuse cases too. If you actually can face it and admit the RCC is a disgrace.

So, where did the priests and the bishops and the politicians come from. They didn't arrive on a spaceship from an alien planet. They were representative of the people that they came from and their actions and attitudes accurately reflected those of the so-called 'ordinary people'.
Even in my generation I remember, as a child growing up, the nods and winks and 'serves them right' sort of attitude towards women who dared to have children 'out of wedlock'.
There was a cruel, mean and nasty streak that ran right through Irish culture.

Seth Brundle · 05-03-2017 09:26PM

Fleawuss wrote: »

Masterful spin. Really well done. Except for one line: "they didn't do anything because the kids didn't matter". That should read "because the church had educated them and dominated them to such an extent that they dare not question what a church run institution was doing". You'll find that a common theme across all the child abuse cases too. If you actually can face it and admit the RCC is a disgrace.

I make absolutely no apologies for the different churches. I loathe the RCC and what it has done. I've already clearly stated this a few times on this thread.
It's a despicable organisation run by despicable men.
Similarly the protestant churches fared not much better in looking after the vulnerable.

My point still stands. People stood by and let this happen. They knew what was going on.

Seth Brundle · 05-03-2017 09:29PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

It has changed in Ireland, of course there are parts of the world where stuff like this still happens, but happens in secret.

Vulnerable people are still let down in various ways right across the country.
Do we really care to the point that we get up and do something apart from moan on the internet?
If we saw a child being slapped (which is legal) in a supermarket, what would you do?

pilly · 05-03-2017 09:32PM

jameorahiely wrote:

Ironic you should ask that as you were one of the participants in the thread about it, defending the organisation.

If there's a thread about it James off you pop there.

nhunter100 · 05-03-2017 09:36PM

kbannon wrote:

Vulnerable people are still let down in various ways right across the country. Do we really care to the point that we get up and do something apart from moan on the internet? If we saw a child being slapped (which is legal) in a supermarket, what would you do?

I think you'll find its illegal to slap a child or anyone for that matter. It's called assault.

05-03-2017 09:36PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

So, where did the priests and the bishops and the politicians come from. They didn't arrive on a spaceship from an alien planet. They were representative of the people that they came from and their actions and attitudes accurately reflected those of the so-called 'ordinary people'.
Even in my generation I remember, as a child growing up, the nods and winks and 'serves them right' sort of attitude towards women who dared to have children 'out of wedlock'.
There was a cruel, mean and nasty streak that ran right through Irish culture.

Spot on, there is now an attitude that the Church was somehow alien to us, imposed on us, and thus we can appropriate blame and say it was "them". We embraced it, we gave it the power it enjoyed, the Church reflected Irish society as perfectly as a mirror.

pilly · 05-03-2017 09:40PM

BlinkingLights wrote:

Also don't forget this relatively recent one from a primary school teachers' exam paper

Link doesn't work.

pilly · 05-03-2017 09:41PM

kbannon wrote:

As for my iPhone comment, yeah, it is relevant. People are rightfully criticising the church for its evil deeds against children yet happily using technology that is widely reported as using child labour in its manufacture. You don't see the hypocrisy?

And what are you using to type away on?

"Significant" numbers of babies remains actually found

Comments