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Louise O Neill on rape culture.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,315 Mod ✭✭✭✭
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I embedded the link in my last post. Hopefully it works. It did for me anyway.The name of the journal article is: Brave men and timid women? A review of the gender differences in fear and anxiety. If you put it into Google Scholar it should come up.
Essentially yes.So we you are saying is we actually have no idea what they actual rates of reporting are..
I'd have no problem with that.Which means we should probably try find out (as difficult as that may be).
We could equally conclude that until we do we can't say there is a problem. Which would be equally daft. It illustrates the point that one's conclusion on the basis of nebulous data presented is usually based on one's predetermined opening position.Until we do though we can't say it's not a problem because we simply don't know.
The former inform the latter in the majority of cases. Take the previous example of how prisoners in Irish gaols attitude towards rapists informs their murderous behaviour towards them.So I find this difficult because I'm not saying there is a rape culture. But I'd argue that culture isn't just about people's attitudes, it's about also their behaviour.
Not necessarily. Mass hysteria for example can envelop a wider culture. Depending on what research one reads mental illnesses like anxiety and depression are near epidemics within western society. Though it depends on what we define as a mental illness. These days it seems more and more average human experience is wheeled under that particular umbrella, but that's a discussion for another day.Two points. Firstly, I didn't mean to imply that I'm sitting around and it's stopping me living my life, it's not. Secondly I'm arguing that women are more likely to feel this way. Something can only be a mental illness if it's unusual in the culture. If a large proportion of women are experiencing the same thoughts around safety (mild as they may be) it's no longer defined as a mental illness, part of society.
Well I found the link and paper and had an oul read of it. Fast reader that I am.You can argue that men are more shaped to look after themselves but it's not backed up by current research. While those statistics may exist it's women who are more shaped by biology, society and environment to get fearful and therefore look for protections. I posted the link on a previous post. If you can find research to the contrary I'm happy to read it.
And it raised some questions for me, as I suspected it might.
On your personal point regarding your experience it agrees with you; “Compared to men, women are more likely to overestimate the probability of danger” So this paper is strongly suggesting Women™ as a demographic are more inherently vulnerable than Men™, more likely to overestimate threats, even when threats are minor or even absent and more likely to suffer in daily life from the stresses of daily life and this is genetically heritable. Socialisation is mentioned as a factor exaggerating this inherent difference, but one could just as easily argue that they’re putting the cart before the horse, channeling the blank slate paradigm and ignoring the obvious other option that socialisation factors came about in the first place because of these inherent gender differences(or more likely six of one, half dozen of the other).
OK, but I wonder where this 60’s/70’s notion of nurture and culture being the most important factor and gender differences don’t exist outside of that fits into this? It’s essentially saying the old model of women being intrinsically “weaker” and more “neurotic” and “hysterical” than men was correct(which in my humble is bollocks of the finest sort). I dunno how feminism can be behind that. Though given quite a chunk of feminism is looking for special treatment for one gender and happy to trumpet this women are always victims stuff, while claiming equality between the genders this confusion and contradiction doesn’t surprise me TBH.
Forget social media and the Tumblr nutters and look at mainstream media and mainstream political discourse on the matter. One can find any number of elected politicians spouting the "1 in 4" rape stat(Prez Obama said 1 in 6, the number varies), going on about the "pay gap", the glass ceiling, education gap(which is a complete nonsense, unless it's men we're discussing) and so on. Mainstream. Where are the rape crisis centres aimed at men? Where are the "battered husband" centres, when stats worldwide show the incidences are about equal? Where are the suicide support avenues for men(who make up the majority of such cases)? Mainstream.I'd argue that modern feminism is actually too fragmented to have a "mainstream". Social media means the we hear random snippets and the most extreme views.
20th century socialism has in quite large parts helped the common man and woman in the west, given us more social safety nets and a more equal society, hell, Communism was the overwhelming force that pounded Nazism into the dust and I would be thankful for that, but because of the extremes within that political spectrum I wouldn't call myself a Socialist.The history of feminism means that I get career and life opportunities the women in the past never had. I'd feel a bit disloyal abandoning the term because of bad press, even though I don't agree with some views expressed.Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.
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It kinda has, but anyway.bridgingthegap wrote: »I think there is something really important to highlight here that as far as I can tell, hasn’t been addressed in this thread.
OK.When the term “rape culture” is used by those who use it in a context to describe the society we live in now, it is being used with the understanding of a definition that appears to be largely misinterpreted by the people, in this thread and elsewhere, that oppose to its use.
Ok, seems defined enough.Below are two sources of a definition that are mostly in sync with what the majority of feminists are attempting to address. I can't include the links because of the new account.
First, the OED, commonly accepted as a reliable authority in definitions.
"A society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.”
Secondly, Wikipedia, a source commonly accepted as not being reliable due to its ability to a edited freely, by anyone. I’m using this because of that very fact.
"Rape culture is a sociological concept used to describe a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality."
Both of these definitions, which clearly align with each other, also align with how the term is being used pretty much all the time.
O RLY? Hmmm. Let's step back and look at both definitions...What seems to be happening, is that a misinterpretation is taking place that leads people to assuming when they read the term “rape culture”, that it has to be referring to a culture where the act of rape is prevalent, promoted, encouraged and even accepted. This is not what the term is being used to describe and the insistence by some that we must follow a direct lexical interpretation of those two words placed together completely ignores not only the intention but also the way language is used in contemporary society.
"Official" definition:
"A society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.”
Our(apparently) "misinterpretation" definition:
"[It is] referring to a culture where the act of rape is prevalent, promoted, encouraged and even accepted".
They are both essentially saying the exact same thing. About the only difference is the brittlest of semantics. Normalisation can be easily mistaken for prevalence and in this context encouraged and promoted means pretty much the same thing. The addition in the official definition of "prevailing social attitudes", could be swapped out with little fanfare and no change in overall meaning for "culture" in the misinterpretation definition. The differences between "rape" and "sexual abuse" is a red herring in many ways, though the former seems far more calculated to raise eyebrows, hackles and paranoia. So I for one are calling semantic shenanigans TBH.
O RLY? Part Deux. Yep we're ignorant because so many call shenanigans to this - and I use the word reservedly - theory.The misinterpretation and inherent ignorance within it creates a barrier to actual debate and discussion of the topic taking place.
Three for three. And demonstrably far less an echo chamber than any open platform discussing this that I'd bet you could find. FYI, a platform that basically agrees with your position isn't open. Find me an open feminist platform that comes close to any dissention in the ranks and you get a lollipop.Essentially, both sides are talking about two different things and the people that commonly complain that the current wave of feminism are creating echo chambers for themselves are in fact, doing the very same thing. This thread is an example of that.
... to your position.While there are some posters that seem to open to hearing all sides, it seems like most aren’t really listening.
The feminism Irony gift that just keeps on giving.Sure, they are willing to read what is presented to them but aren’t allowing themselves to switch off their preconceptions and take any opportunity to roll their eyes and assume a position ofintellectual superiority.
This global homogenous west thing is a complete nonsense. Damn near every single feminist tenet of the last thirty years was seeded and grown in American social sciences faculties. Just like the moronic "red pill/MGTOW/PUA" guff is almost entirely of American origin. This is undeniable. The age thing is yet another red herring. One could argue far more easily that those who have grown up with the internet are more prone to import these ideas and think that local culture is the same. Jaysus the number of Irish people(even on Boards) that go on about Trump and MAGA and bleating "cuck" at every turn should illustrate this. More to the point, just because some may go with their mom to the store and buy a boxset of The Wire this is not America. On so many social and cultural and political levels. In the US I'd be socialist to many, whereas here I'm more seen as a fascist.An important thing to note here is that when people use the term, they are in most cases referring to western society as a whole and are not talking in country specific terms. I think it might have something to do with age, in that people who grew up with the internet tend to think on more of a global scale than a local one. I have noticed over time that it’s quite common on Boards for users to be of the opinion that because this is an Irish forum that all social issues discussed here must relate exclusively to Ireland. There is a lot of talk of “importing” theory surrounding social justice issues from America and elsewhere. It gets brought up in attempts to invalidate people with opposing views. The reality is that those people with the opposing views are looking at these issues in an entirely different context. They are viewing them as issues that all of humanity should be facing together instead of having a narrow focus on this small island. This difference in approach means a lot of the time people are having two different discussions. To try and graft those increasingly socially decisive American groups of all stripes onto Irish culture is both wrong and wrongheaded.
Murders are a common occurrence in films and TV and books and games. I've offed a fair number of people(and zombies) in the latter. Murders also occur in the real world of Ireland. And that's bad. Am I a potential murderer? Do we live in a murder culture? I am not and we do like....Now, here’s what rape culture doesn’t mean. It doesn’t mean that a bunch of interactions that are definitely not rape, are viewed as rape. It does not mean that society promotes sexual violence. It definitely does not mean that all men are rapists. What does it mean then? It means that the act of rape does not happen in a vacuum. Everything that surrounds us, socially and culturally influence who we are as people. Dots have been connected between things that happen in every day life and rape. Harassment, gender norms, sexual objectification (both in the media and on an individual level) are a selection of things that remain present in our society. Some of them are being challenged, and that is great, progress is being made. However, the simple logical connections that are being made between these things and sexual violence are not ones based in delusion. I would hope to think most people in this thread can agree with that. The concept of us living in a “rape culture” is not focusing on the act of rape itself, but on these behaviours and systems that are in place and can play even the smallest part in making someone capable of committing acts of sexual violence on someone else.
FYP.The term is getting used more and more frequently as a means of making society recognise that these connections exist. pimping imported feminist dogma into the mainstream.
Yeah, it kinda does. This "theory" seems to completely ignore the most obvious point; evil scumbags/morons exist and some cultures can give them freer reign, but I hate to break it to you, unless we develop new technologies to spot them and wed them out they will always exist regardless of the surrounding culture.Just because you or the people you know wouldn’t think that you/they are entitled to a person’s body without consent does not provide a reason to deny the connection between the everyday objectification of people and the dehumanising sexual violence that people of any gender can be a victim of, in which they are treated as objects.
Again back to the "Murder culture" analogy. We dehumanise physical violence on a near daily basis. Indeed physical violence is often used as a mainstream slapstick comedy prop. "Gaol the three stooges for promoting murder culture" TBH I've actually seen that daftness taken in earnest, so... Yet in real life murderers are vilified and gaoled and expelled from Irish society. Though the most vilified of all are rapists and other sex criminals.
I've seen amorous eels tie themselves in fewer knots.Omackeral posted about the lack of acceptance of rapists in both decent and indecent society using an excellent example from their experience as a prison officer. Feminists are completely with you here. There isn’t really anything there to debate against, its just not exactly relevant to the topic of rape culture as a concept. We know that pretty much all of society finds rape and rapists abhorrent but again, the term rape culture focuses everything that can contribute to the existence of rape and not solely the act itself, or those who commit it.
*facepalm*. And likely this springs from the "patriarchy". Men's fault as it were.To me, the lack of and acknowledgement and services for male victims of rape is very clearly a facet of the rape culture we live in.
And yet it is.This doesn’t have to be about us versus them.
I agree, because you'd need to be Rip VanWinkle to hang around for the feminist ideologues to chime in, unless it's for another dig at the patriarchy.If you feel there is a lack of representation for male victims of rape, do something about it,
I have found that usually translates as sit around agreeing with the philosophy de jour.add to the dialogue in a respectful manner that isn’t about tearing other people down.
You, nor I have no actual idea of the numbers.The short of it is, people, no matter how small the number (it is not small) are getting raped.
I suppose it has to be somebody's "fault"...Those in opposition to the term being used do not appear to be doing much in the way of providing an alternate approach.Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.
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All the above have been chewed over countless times in the thread.bridgingthegap wrote: »I think there is something really important to highlight here that as far as I can tell, hasn’t been addressed in this thread. When the term “rape culture” is used by those who use it in a context to describe the society we live in now, it is being used with the understanding of a definition that appears to be largely misinterpreted by the people, in this thread and elsewhere, that oppose to its use. Below are two sources of a definition that are mostly in sync with what the majority of feminists are attempting to address. I can't include the links because of the new account.
First, the OED, commonly accepted as a reliable authority in definitions.
"A society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.”
Secondly, Wikipedia, a source commonly accepted as not being reliable due to its ability to a edited freely, by anyone. I’m using this because of that very fact.
"Rape culture is a sociological concept used to describe a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality."
Both of these definitions, which clearly align with each other, also align with how the term is being used pretty much all the time. What seems to be happening, is that a misinterpretation is taking place that leads people to assuming when they read the term “rape culture”, that it has to be referring to a culture where the act of rape is prevalent, promoted, encouraged and even accepted. This is not what the term is being used to describe and the insistence by some that we must follow a direct lexical interpretation of those two words placed together completely ignores not only the intention but also the way language is used in contemporary society.
Ah, the "You guys just don't get the theory" card. Sorry, but people do get it. You know who else gets it? Rape Crisis Networks. Are RAINN guilty of "misinterpretation and inherent ignorance" on "rape culture"?bridgingthegap wrote: »The misinterpretation and inherent ignorance within it creates a barrier to actual debate and discussion of the topic taking place. Essentially, both sides are talking about two different things and the people that commonly complain that the current wave of feminism are creating echo chambers for themselves are in fact, doing the very same thing. This thread is an example of that. While there are some posters that seem to open to hearing all sides, it seems like most aren’t really listening. Sure, they are willing to read what is presented to them but aren’t allowing themselves to switch off their preconceptions and take any opportunity to roll their eyes and assume a position ofintellectual superiority. I am aware that the same could be said for all sides in a debate but it appears to me personally that it is much more prevalent on one side in this case than the other.
The thing is, people understand perfectly what it means and they do get it, they're just not agreeing with it.RAINN wrote:In the last few years, there has been an unfortunate trend towards blaming “rape culture” for the extensive problem of sexual violence on campuses. While it is helpful to point out the systemic barriers to addressing the problem, it is important to not lose sight of a simple fact: Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime.
While that may seem an obvious point, it has tended to get lost in recent debates. This has led to an inclination to focus on particular segments of the student population (e.g., athletes), particular aspects of campus culture (e.g., the Greek system), or traits that are common in many millions of law-abiding Americans (e.g., “masculinity”), rather than on the subpopulation at fault: those who choose to commit rape. This trend has the paradoxical effect of making it harder to stop sexual violence, since it removes the focus from the individual at fault, and seemingly mitigates personal responsibility for his or her own actions.
https://www.rainn.org/images/03-2014...mendations.pdf
If somebody wishes to discuss the issue on a global scale then all the better. However, have a look at the thread title. IIRC one of the first lines in the documentary was "Ireland has a rape culture". So, considering we are on a thread spawned from that documentary, and we are all (mostly) Irish, is it really all that shocking that we are discussing things in a localised context?bridgingthegap wrote: »An important thing to note here is that when people use the term, they are in most cases referring to western society as a whole and are not talking in country specific terms. I think it might have something to do with age, in that people who grew up with the internet tend to think on more of a global scale than a local one. I have noticed over time that it’s quite common on Boards for users to be of the opinion that because this is an Irish forum that all social issues discussed here must relate exclusively to Ireland. There is a lot of talk of “importing” theory surrounding social justice issues from America and elsewhere. It gets brought up in attempts to invalidate people with opposing views. The reality is that those people with the opposing views are looking at these issues in an entirely different context. They are viewing them as issues that all of humanity should be facing together instead of having a narrow focus on this small island. This difference in approach means a lot of the time people are having two different discussions.
As I stated above, people know that already. They just don't buy into it.bridgingthegap wrote: »The concept of us living in a “rape culture” is not focusing on the act of rape itself, but on these behaviours and systems that are in place and can play even the smallest part in making someone capable of committing acts of sexual violence on someone else.
A big claim (not the first time I have come across it either) but yet very vague and light on evidence. For a start, you never listed what you define to be objectification and how you believe those forms of objectification lead down that road.bridgingthegap wrote: »Just because you or the people you know wouldn’t think that you/they are entitled to a person’s body without consent does not provide a reason to deny the connection between the everyday objectification of people and the dehumanising sexual violence that people of any gender can be a victim of, in which they are treated as objects.
Then this would mean that one of the major rape crisis networks in the USA is indulging in "denial and rejection of the concept". I just think they looked at the facts, and used their experience to discern reality from old ivory tower musings.bridgingthegap wrote: »It is completely understandable that this makes people uncomfortable. It should. It makes the people that recognise its existence uncomfortable too. The difference arises when those in opposition, more often than not, opt to indulge in denial and rejection of the concept instead of fighting through the discomfort to try to gain a greater understanding how this concept has come to exist, and potentially then being able to admit that it is indeed a reality.
Indeed, I think most know that already. As has been said before in the thread, the net has been cast far and wide in that regard. Quite handy that, eh?bridgingthegap wrote: »We know that pretty much all of society finds rape and rapists abhorrent but again, the term rape culture focuses everything that can contribute to the existence of rape and not solely the act itself, or those who commit it.
I am truly sorry to hear what happened to you. However, the "lack of and acknowledgement of services" could be pinned on everything in this country from the health service (trolley crisis every year), housing crisis, prior lax building regulations and our Olympic teams etc. It is not a conspiracy to have poor services just for rape victims, unfortunately it is endemic across most departments.bridgingthegap wrote: »I am a man. I have been raped. It took me a very long time to come to terms with the fact that that is exactly what it was. The hesitation that I felt for so long was based in what I had learned from the gender norms present in our society. Gender norms that are reinforced not only socially and culturally but also legally in regard to rape in this country. To me, the lack of and acknowledgement and services for male victims of rape is very clearly a facet of the rape culture we live in. This doesn’t have to be about us versus them. If you feel there is a lack of representation for male victims of rape, do something about it, add to the dialogue in a respectful manner that isn’t about tearing other people down.bridgingthegap wrote: »I know this is incredibly long, but I felt there needed to something somewhat more substantial to balance a thread that was quite overtly one sided. Feel free to tear this to shreds, I wouldn't expect anything less.
It's a difference of opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't agree with any of your post. But, you don't have to agree with anything in mine either. C'est la vie. 0 -
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Hi bridgingthegap,
I've read your personal comments and I'm very sorry to hear what happened to you. I've tried to keep my comments as polite as possible and confined to exploring the logic of the rape culture movement. I'm sorry if any of it comes across as overly aggressive or otherwise bad as I've no axe to grind with you personally. I just disagree with what you have said and I believe you are incorrect and I would like to try to explain to you why I think your comments are incorrect. So please don't take this the wrong way.Now, here’s what rape culture doesn’t mean. It doesn’t mean that a bunch of interactions that are definitely not rape, are viewed as rape. It does not mean that society promotes sexual violence. It definitely does not mean that all men are rapists. What does it mean then? It means that the act of rape does not happen in a vacuum. Everything that surrounds us, socially and culturally influence who we are as people. Dots have been connected between things that happen in every day life and rape. Harassment, gender norms, sexual objectification (both in the media and on an individual level) are a selection of things that remain present in our society. Some of them are being challenged, and that is great, progress is being made. However, the simple logical connections that are being made between these things and sexual violence are not ones based in delusion. I would hope to think most people in this thread can agree with that. The concept of us living in a “rape culture” is not focusing on the act of rape itself, but on these behaviours and systems that are in place and can play even the smallest part in making someone capable of committing acts of sexual violence on someone else.
The bit that you hope most people can agree with is in fact the bit that most people don't agree with. Let me break it down a bit:Now, here’s what rape culture doesn’t mean. It doesn’t mean that a bunch of interactions that are definitely not rape, are viewed as rape. It does not mean that society promotes sexual violence. It definitely does not mean that all men are rapists.
That's Ok, but we should use words correctly. I think it needs a different name if it isn't about a culture of rape, but we can agree to disagree about this. Whether we call it "rape culture" or something else, let's discuss the merits of this theory.What does it mean then? It means that the act of rape does not happen in a vacuum.
Agreed. No one wakes up in the morning and says "I think I'll go out and rape someone today, just to try it out"Everything that surrounds us, socially and culturally influence who we are as people.
Also agreed. Those are two influences that affect almost everybody to at least some extent. Other facts affect people too such as biology, education, mental health, alcohol and drugs, people's life experiences, family, intelligence, their sense of logic and thought process, etc etc.Dots have been connected between things that happen in every day life and rape.
This is a big logical problem with the theory. What are those connections? I could say dots have been connected between the assassination of JFK and the CIA, but they are tenuous at best. We need to have clear evidence if the connection is to have any substance.Harassment, gender norms, sexual objectification (both in the media and on an individual level) are a selection of things that remain present in our society. Some of them are being challenged, and that is great, progress is being made.
Both agreed. These things do happen and I don't think anyone on this thread has denied that harassment or sexual objectification doesn't happen or that it isn't a bad thing.However, the simple logical connections that are being made between these things and sexual violence are not ones based in delusion.
The connections between me saying to my friend "I think so and so has a lovely bottom" and another man on the other side of the country beating and raping a woman are neither simple nor logical. I would say they are non-existent, or at least so tenuous as to exist only in the realms of zen philosophy or quantum theoretical physics. I can't exclude absolutely the possibility that because I had two sugars in my tea five years ago that I didn't unwittingly contribute towards the rise of ISIS. But for the purposes of rational debate there is no connection.
So yes, it is either based in delusion or they are so tenuous as not to be worth discussing. If someone rapes a woman after eating a kit kat, we don't talk about the connection between confectionary and rape, do we? So, unless there is a clear, demonstrable link, there isn't really any benefit to discussing it.I would hope to think most people in this thread can agree with that.
It's a massive assumption. I think you assuming this is why there is misunderstanding.The concept of us living in a “rape culture” is not focusing on the act of rape itself, but on these behaviours and systems that are in place and can play even the smallest part in making someone capable of committing acts of sexual violence on someone else.
Again, see above. While I cannot preclude the possibility of a connection, if the connection is, by your own admission, very small, then it is quite frankly misleading and wrong to talk about it. If the cause of a fatal disease is 99% genetic but there is a possibility that smoking cigarettes contributes 1% to it, it is wrong, indeed irresponsible to talk about how smoking cigarettes causes this disease.
Put another way, if you came onto boards and said we live in a "disease culture" where cigarettes causes this disease, people would rightly point out that cigarettes are not definitively linked and that, in fact, the causes of the disease are widely known and easily demonstrated.
If that happened, the people commenting would not be denying that there are other things that are bad about cigarettes, nor that the disease isn't actually that bad, nor would they be failing to understand your concept of "disease culture", they would be simply disagreeing with you, based on the preponderance of evidence.
And if you were to say, "well, let's ignore the genetics, there is something small to suggest a connection to smoking cigarettes", people would rightly say "we can't just ignore it as it is such an important aspect of it". This, in the analogy, is like you saying "stop talking about how rape is a criminal offence. Let's ignore the 99% of our culture that abhors rape, and instead focus on the 1% that could possibly encourage it."Just because you or the people you know wouldn’t think that you/they are entitled to a person’s body without consent does not provide a reason to deny the connection between the everyday objectification of people and the dehumanising sexual violence that people of any gender can be a victim of, in which they are treated as objects.
Has anyone ever actually demonstrated this connection? Because all the articles I've read have just been lists or anecdotes about sexist comments and a vague assertion that this part of rape culture.Omackeral posted about the lack of acceptance of rapists in both decent and indecent society using an excellent example from their experience as a prison officer. Feminists are completely with you here. There isn’t really anything there to debate against, its just not exactly relevant to the topic of rape culture as a concept.
Well it is really relevant to determining what society's view towards sexual violence is. See above re: we can't ignore the 99% evidence and focus exclusively on the 1% possiblity.
Because, you see, if there is a possiblity that locker room talk has a small effect on a potential rapist which makes him slightly more likely to commit rape, the incredible abhorrence and risk of significant punishment that he must also be aware of plays an even greater deterrent effect on him.
So if he goes out and actually commits the rape, he does this despite the massive social pressure not to rape, not because of the tiny amount of social pressure that trivialises rape.
This is the thing about social theories - they need to be robust. You can't just pick the bits you like and exclude the bits that run contrary to the narrative. To illustrate this, supposing I want to lose weight and I do three things:
1) exercise every day;
2) eat really healthy food in a calorie deficit; and
3) listen to an Iggy Pop record while repeating "I must be thin I must be thin" at least once a week.
Supposing following this I lose 5 pounds and someone asks me what I did to lose the weight and I say "well, I did eat right and exercise a lot, but they are not relevant. In reality, I prayed to Iggy Pop and he made me skinny".We know that pretty much all of society finds rape and rapists abhorrent but again, the term rape culture focuses everything that can contribute to the existence of rape and not solely the act itself, or those who commit it.
Why does "rape culture" only focus on anything "that can contribute" to an actual rape, but not on anything that can discourage or prevent such a thing? What a strange theory it is. What is it's purpose if we only focus on the marginal things that we want to focus on and not on the more significant things that go against the theory? To illustrate, again using an analogy:
Imagine I went into a supermarket and said "do you have anything to do with cars?" and they said, "this is a supermarket, we don't sell cars, or parts or petrol or insurance or hire taxis or any of that, maybe try the garage down the road that does all of that". Do you answer this:
A) Ok yeah, I take your point, I'll check out the garage; or
I don't care, just give me anything to do with a car - an air freshener, a toy car, cut me a new set of keys, I'm interested in anything in this supermarket that is to do with cars.
Because no matter how finely you split hairs, if you want to talk about "rape culture" but only in a scenario where we ignore all the relevant matters such as society condemning rape, the state punishing rape, most people understanding rape is bad, everyone saying rape is bad, public bodies actively trying to prevent rape and encourage the prosecution of same etc etc and focus entirely on throw away comments by jocks and distasteful jokes or phrases, then you sound like the mad person described in above.The short of it is, people, no matter how small the number (it is not small) are getting raped. There are people that want to address this issue with the ultimate and ideal hope of making it not exist anymore. The approach taken in tackling the issue can hit some wrong notes at times, by few or by many. Still, people are making an effort.
This is it and this is very important. The Hippocratic oath "First, do no harm" is as relevant to social discourse as it is to medicine. It is not enough, unfortunately, to make an effort, however well meaning. That effort has to ensure that it isn't aiming in the wrong direction.
In practical terms, I can't help but avoid the belief that the rape culture advocates are telling people to ignore the traditional routes for dealing with rape, such as the gardai and courts, and telling them to instead become internet martyrs or to focus their energies on the wrong things. One final analogy:
Imagine the Minister for Health wants to try to eradicate MRSA in Irish hospitals. He makes a statement of his genuine, but incorrect belief, that one of the reasons for MRSA is that doctors aren't washing their hands properly. He has made the effort to try to solve the problem, but his efforts were misguided and do not cure MRSA. Instead, however, he has made all the doctors in Ireland distrust him. The doctors have derided his theory as lacking in any evidence and have provided evidence to the contrary, and the Minister responds by saying that the doctors are being stubborn because they don't like hearing any criticism of themselves as a profession and that their evidence is not relevant to the discussion. So long as he keeps insisting that not washing their hands is a problem the doctors refuse to engage in meaningful debate with him. He refuses to change his stance and is convinced he is right.
That is probably where the rape culture debate is at the moment. I'm sorry to say it but the solution to the Minister's problem is to stop taking dogmatic approaches to how he tries to help, and instead basing his decisions on realistic appraisals of what is happening.0
This discussion has been closed.
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