Poll: Time to proscribe the RC Church?

Zebra3 · 04-03-2017 01:29AM #1

Given the vast multitudes of crimes committed by the Roman Catholic Church in this country, is it time to declare it a proscribed organisation?

Mountainsandh · 04-03-2017 01:36AM

No.
Just let it self-sabotage.
Prosecute when possible.
Sever links between Church and State somehow, rid schools of its power, somehow.
I don't think it it would be right to ban a religion. IMHO.

hatrickpatrick · 04-03-2017 01:40AM

Martyrdom and being banned only ever helps a movement to thrive. Nothing motivates people like a persecution complex.

Jim Bob Scratcher · 04-03-2017 01:41AM

Lets try and get rid of Islam first

topmanamillion · 04-03-2017 01:44AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Martyrdom and being banned only ever helps a movement to thrive. Nothing motivates people like a persecution complex.

Exactly.
The RCC is doing a fine job of morally proscribing itself.
Anyone that's contributing financially to the catholic church really needs to have a good look at themselves.

MilesMorales1 · 04-03-2017 01:49AM

Give em enough rope and they'll hang themselves.

greenflash · 04-03-2017 01:53AM

topmanamillion wrote: »

Exactly.
The RCC is doing a fine job of morally proscribing itself.
Anyone that's contributing financially to the catholic church really needs to have a good look at themselves.

Out of pretty much everyone I know, my wife and I are the only parents not to have had our children baptised. I hardly know anyone who has faith and attends mass yet still they all go through the christening/communion/confirmation rituals. Why? Because it's tradition and it's a nice day out and no one wants to upset the older generation and how else could the RCC continue to justify its control of the education of the vast majority of Irish children.

Because we ****ing let them, that's ****ing why.

johnnyskeleton · 04-03-2017 02:03AM

greenflash wrote: »

Out of pretty much everyone I know, my wife and I are the only parents not to have had our children baptised. I hardly know anyone who has faith and attends mass yet still they all go through the christening/communion/confirmation rituals. Why? Because it's tradition and it's a nice day out and no one wants to upset the older generation and how else could the RCC continue to justify its control of the education of the vast majority of Irish children.

Because we ****ing let them, that's ****ing why.

Well one theory goes that if you send the kids to a denominational school and send them to mass/church etc and they hear about all the religious stuff, they can assess it for themselves and ultimate decide whether to opt in or opt out when they mature. At that point, they have learned skepticism and not to accept things at face value, or else they do accept it because they've considered the alternatives and found them unconvincting.

Whereas if you raise a child without any exposure to religion, it will only prime them to fall prey to the first cult that comes along promising them the secrets of the universe and entry to eternal paradise.

So while I don't believe in all the stuff, I can see how it plays an important part in society and in human development.

uch · 04-03-2017 02:06AM

I've no idea what the OP means by proscribe

uch · 04-03-2017 02:07AM

Oh, and I like Cake

greenflash · 04-03-2017 02:07AM

uch wrote: »

I've no idea what the OP means by proscribe

Outlaw, ban, make illegal.

red ears · 04-03-2017 02:09AM

The catholic church is no threat anymore, Islam is where the real threat is.

One eyed Jack · 04-03-2017 02:16AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Given the vast multitudes of crimes committed by the Roman Catholic Church in this country, is it time to declare it a proscribed organisation?

The Roman Catholic Church didn't commit any crimes.

People committed crimes in the name of the RCC. The vast majority of people within the Roman Catholic Church have/had nothing to do with any criminal activity so do not deserve any condemnation.

Yourself isit · 04-03-2017 02:19AM

It would be odd to ban just one religion. All or none.

Atoms for Peace · 04-03-2017 02:22AM

It has been already tried here and didn't work.

Dave_The_Sheep · 04-03-2017 02:22AM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Prosecute when possible.

We tried that. Ouor own governemnt indemnified them for up to a ridiculous figure so they'd never have to pay back a) victims and b) the state for the damege they caused.

If you can't rely on the state to enact your justice, then you understand why sometimes people go vigilante.

On a high level, I'm sure the RCC can afford the best laywers around.

Yourself isit · 04-03-2017 02:26AM

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

We tried that. Ouor own governemnt indemnified them for up to a ridiculous figure so they'd never have to pay back a) victims and b) the state for the damege they caused.

If you can't rely on the state to enact your justice, then you understand why sometimes people go vigilante.

On a high level, I'm sure the RCC can afford the best laywers around.

Has anybody actually "gone vigilante"? What does that mean?

Dave_The_Sheep · 04-03-2017 02:29AM

Not yet that I'm aware of.

I would assume it means taking justice into ones own hands. It usually means that.

4068ac1elhodqr · 04-03-2017 02:30AM

A financial stripping of their core assets to pay for the numerous international victims would be a very good start, there is no need for a priest to be driving a fancy new Mercedes and living in an near empty 20-bed parochial house.

They should also all undergo 'scientific lie detection tests' on various probing questions to see if their intentions are what they appear to be.

The new pope chap seems decent enough compared to the last one, and refused the Prada sandals, that last fella looked real sketchy.

Worth noting also that 'Islam may well become the world's largest religion come 2070', and no organised 'thought police' gang are free from wrongdoing, that includes Scientology or whom-ever else. Perhaps they all need regular scrutiny by independent bodies on human rights.

Ursus Horribilis · 04-03-2017 02:31AM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Whereas if you raise a child without any exposure to religion, it will only prime them to fall prey to the first cult that comes along promising them the secrets of the universe and entry to eternal paradise.
.

Or you could argue that forbidden fruit is the sweetest. What better way to piss off radical atheist mum and dad than to find God

From what I can see, the vast majority of Irish people either ditch their catholic faith or disobey most of the rule once they get to a certain age. Otherwise the churches would be bursting at the seams on Sundays, rather than being populated by people over 65. I'm not sure how many people pay any heed to what priests or bishops say nowadays. It's apathy that'll kill the church in Ireland, not angry people venting on internet message boards.

Mountainsandh · 04-03-2017 02:53AM

greenflash wrote: »

Out of pretty much everyone I know, my wife and I are the only parents not to have had our children baptised. I hardly know anyone who has faith and attends mass yet still they all go through the christening/communion/confirmation rituals. Why? Because it's tradition and it's a nice day out and no one wants to upset the older generation and how else could the RCC continue to justify its control of the education of the vast majority of Irish children.

Because we ****ing let them, that's ****ing why.

Slowly does it.
My kids are 9 and 11. We baptised them not to upset the relations, and because there's only one school available in the area, no non-denominational within 70 km.

Not wanting to upset the relations : that's slowly but surely becoming redundant, as generations age. Also, since then, I have seen change in my kids' Granny for example. She voted Yes to gay marriage, she is still practicing but has become disillusioned with the Church.
There will come a stage where this will not be an issue.

I'd say most people could do without the "nice day out" in the current conditions.

Finally, and hopefully, as non-denominational schools multiply, the issue of RCC only schools in one area will be no more.

Pity it didn't apply for my kids. It's a farce alright, and we have taken part.
At least I didn't put any of us down as Catholics on the census.

It won't take too much longer imo. Even this evening, at a community meeting, I learned that some people I believed were regular (social) mass goers have stopped going altogether.

Subcomandante Marcos · 04-03-2017 02:59AM

Should the church be banned?

No.

Should the church be punished?

Yes.

As a form of making them pay back the people of Ireland for the costs to the state for paying victims of abuse and for covering up stuff like this, moving child rapists from parish to parish etc, take their lands from them.

Not all their lands, let them keep the church and the carpark around it and all that, but take the schools, the hospitals, the universities and colleges and so on and transfer them to the ownership of the relevant government departments, get rid of this nonsense of the local parish priest being the head of schools boards of management, remove the baptism barrier once and for all.

Mountainsandh · 04-03-2017 03:03AM

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Should the church be banned?

No.

Should the church be punished?

Yes.

As a form of making them pay back the people of Ireland for the costs to the state for paying victims of abuse and for covering up stuff like this, moving child rapists from parish to parish etc, take their lands from them.

Not all their lands, let them keep the church and the carpark around it and all that, but take the schools, the hospitals, the universities and colleges and so on and transfer them to the ownership of the relevant government departments, get rid of this nonsense of the local parish priest being the head of schools boards of management, remove the baptism barrier once and for all.

I don't see that happening, but it would be great.

Atlantic Dawn · 04-03-2017 03:06AM

The politicians allowed this to go on and you only have to look at recent history where pure fookwit Michael Woods let the church pretty much fully off the hook for compensation claims, he must be expecting a corrupt **** of a wanker God to let him through the pearly gates for his favour.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 04-03-2017 03:07AM

Never had a personal issue with the RCC. They were there for me when I lost family members and friends. I'll always remember our Parish Priest travelling up to Dublin to the hospital from the midlands a few hours after my granny died. He was there for us. She had already received the Last Rites from the hospital chaplain but he insisted on coming up to bless her and to be there for the family.

A great friend of mine committed suicide in 2013. I sat by his coffin at the wake with another Priest from the Parish, I wasn't anyway religious at the time. He explained to me the concept of "Hate the Sin, not the Sinner." God Almighty will judge will and not man.

I can understand people who have had negative experiences but I can only go on my own experiences. I'm proud to be a member of the Catholic Church. They did more good than they ever did bad in this country.

greenflash · 04-03-2017 03:16AM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Slowly does it.
My kids are 9 and 11. We baptised them not to upset the relations, and because there's only one school available in the area, no non-denominational within 70 km...

It won't take too much longer imo. Even this evening, at a community meeting, I learned that some people I believed were regular (social) mass goers have stopped going altogether.

It'll take a lot longer than it should while children are still being registered as Catholics for those reasons. If you're in an area where the only school for 70 Km has religious patronage, your children are still entitled to an education at that school regardless of baptism. It only really applies to areas (mainly in Dublin) where places in desirable schools are oversubscribed and school boards are in a position to make selections and discriminate by religion.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 04-03-2017 03:16AM

The vast majority of these clergy members are good men. They give up their lives to preach the word of the Lord.

Kind and gentle highly educated men. If they can something there, then I can too.

topmanamillion · 04-03-2017 03:36AM

red ears wrote: »

The catholic church is no threat anymore, Islam is where the real threat is.

If you believe that, I have some swamp land to sell to you.

twill · 04-03-2017 03:38AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Given the vast multitudes of crimes committed by the Roman Catholic Church in this country, is it time to declare it a proscribed organisation?

Assuming you refer to the abuse of women and children, do we also proscribe the Protestant denominations given what happened in the Bethany Home and other such noble institutions? Just out of curiosity.

topmanamillion · 04-03-2017 03:40AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The Roman Catholic Church didn't commit any crimes.

People committed crimes in the name of the RCC. The vast majority of people within the Roman Catholic Church have/had nothing to do with any criminal activity so do not deserve any condemnation.

Have you been to Vatican city? Have you seen the opulence on display? An organisation that prattles on about people not putting wealth and worldly goods before god surrounds its self in untold grandeur.
Its sceptic and anyone that supports is sceptic by proxy.

Mountainsandh · 04-03-2017 03:50AM

greenflash wrote: »

It'll take a lot longer than it should while children are still being registered as Catholics for those reasons

.

Social change takes time.

If you're in an area where the only school for 70 Km has religious patronage, your children are still entitled to an education at that school regardless of baptism. It only really applies to areas (mainly in Dublin) where places in desirable schools are oversubscribed and school boards are in a position to make selections and discriminate by religion.

It's good that you're telling me that, I didn't know. 11 years ago, or even 8/9 years ago since we didn't have to book a place or anything (tiny rural school), I would never have known that (I'm not Irish, but my husband didn't either).

People don't necessarily know these things. The given is that, in a religious ethos RC school, your child must be baptised. Of course now, with a lot more refugees for example, it's a bit more in the open.

Information campaigns would probably help speed up things.

Poll: Time to proscribe the RC Church?

is it time to ban the Catholic Church in Ireland given its long history of crimes? 213 votes

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