Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 MOD NOTE POST 1*

tbiggertycome · 25-02-2017 12:20PM

I think the over reaction to the last two results in the media and on here is completely over the top. Now I don't think what we've seen is anything to be enthused about and I was very worried about what I saw on the last two Sundays. However I had one caveat in my head that I was ok with those results if the lads are being flogged in training and aren't hurling. I set out to find out and thankfully I found out last night that they are doing about 10 mins with the hurl in hand at the end of heavy sessions. It doesn't excuse the results but to me it goes a long way to explain them. A lot of our lads are new to intercounty at this level, while they were on the edge of the set up for the last few years this is a massive step up for them physically. Everyone in the IC game is so strong particularly for young lads that has had a hard weeks training, then you go out and play team most of whom have trained at this level for at least two years it makes it very tough going.

I also think that the team selection has not helped those who played the last few weeks with very strong hurlers being played out of position which in effect is leaving you with a team of lads, who either aren't used to this level and are struggling not to drown or very good players struggling to adapt to unusual positions with rookies all around them. This is particularly the case in defence.

brookville · 25-02-2017 12:45PM

tbiggertycome wrote: »

I think the over reaction to the last two results in the media and on here is completely over the top. Now I don't think what we've seen is anything to be enthused about and I was very worried about what I saw on the last two Sundays. However I had one caveat in my head that I was ok with those results if the lads are being flogged in training and aren't hurling. I set out to find out and thankfully I found out last night that they are doing about 10 mins with the hurl in hand at the end of heavy sessions. It doesn't excuse the results but to me it goes a long way to explain them. A lot of our lads are new to intercounty at this level, while they were on the edge of the set up for the last few years this is a massive step up for them physically. Everyone in the IC game is so strong particularly for young lads that has had a hard weeks training, then you go out and play team most of whom have trained at this level for at least two years it makes it very tough going.

I also think that the team selection has not helped those who played the last few weeks with very strong hurlers being played out of position which in effect is leaving you with a team of lads, who either aren't used to this level and are struggling not to drown or very good players struggling to adapt to unusual positions with rookies all around them. This is particularly the case in defence.

I always like reading your posts and I agree that the media and probaly fans have gone over board and anyone that knows anything about hurling will know that kk will be thereabouts come the business end.it's two league games in we could of drew with waterford and we seemed to throw in the towel after missing the penalty which would of amazingly brought it back to 4 despite being completely outplayed and out fought.
Reading brians comments during the week his not going to hit the panic button and rush lads back league is league and at least there's young lads being blooded and leahy and lyng have being positives while I expect bolger,aylward and john walsh to offer more threat on the inside line
I think the murphy trial hasn't worked and it's a pity cleere wasn't available as I think he could of being a option at six.I also think tommy walsh should be tried at half back granted his only out of minor but after watching him with his club and growing up i think his as good as some on the panel

tbiggertycome · 25-02-2017 02:23PM

brookville wrote: »

I always like reading your posts and I agree that the media and probaly fans have gone over board and anyone that knows anything about hurling will know that kk will be thereabouts come the business end.it's two league games in we could of drew with waterford and we seemed to throw in the towel after missing the penalty which would of amazingly brought it back to 4 despite being completely outplayed and out fought.
Reading brians comments during the week his not going to hit the panic button and rush lads back league is league and at least there's young lads being blooded and leahy and lyng have being positives while I expect bolger,aylward and john walsh to offer more threat on the inside line
I think the murphy trial hasn't worked and it's a pity cleere wasn't available as I think he could of being a option at six.I also think tommy walsh should be tried at half back granted his only out of minor but after watching him with his club and growing up i think his as good as some on the panel

I suppose what we need to do is realise there is going to be a few young lads that will need to learn their trade over the next year or two. They definitely have loads of talent the question is do the have the dedication to do the hard work required. One are that does worry my slightly is who are the leaders on that team? The defence doesn't seem to have anyone bossing them around or chewing them out on the pitch this I think is the biggest thing we've lost with the retirements. While I'm confident in the ability of the young lads to be close to what we've had before. I really wonder where are the 4 or 5 leaders a team that's gonna win the AI needs, will come out of. I don't know most of the lads involved but the few I do wouldn't or haven't done it so far.

Regarding the players you mentioned above a little update I got in the last few days

Ger Aylward- as said above was making great progress but had a slight hamstring twinge and will hopefully see time before the end of the League
John Walsh- again has been struggling with little niggles but is on the road to recovery
Jason Cleere- has Richie Doyle hip problems but they seem to have caught it early enough and they've built up enough muscles around it to compensate and protect him against the problems Richie had. He has been struggling with a shoulder injury since the week before the DCU Walsh cup game. It was feared he would need season ending surgery but he has come through thankfully and is training away again and hopefully will see time before the end of the League but it might come too early for him.
Chris Bolger- Is hurling well and hopefully Cody gives him a shot but if he doesn't theres usually a good reason why.
Tommy Walsh- I think he's on the edge of the panel called in occasionally for training I think he'll be very good but he needs more time IMO.

I have a theory on the Paul Murphy and Padraig Walsh situation I hope I'm right with this but I'm probably way off the mark. I think he is playing Padraig at FB to try and curb he's tendency to go forward so much and also to get him used to the centre. I think come the summer Padraig could be our CB with Murphy possibly FB or good cover encase of an injury.

The team I would like to see play come championship is
E Murphy
P Murphy, K Joyce, C Fogarty
J Maher, P Walsh, C Buckley
O Walsh, L Ryan obviously M Fennelly in here when he returns or CB
TJ Reid, R Hogan, C Fennelly
G Aylward, W Walsh, AN Other whoever shows up best

unrealtime · 25-02-2017 04:32PM

Team maybe best we can put out. I see James Maher future at half back and might switch Padraig and Joyce. I can see Ger Aylward as being absent too.

Topcat32 · 25-02-2017 04:34PM

unrealtime wrote: »

Team maybe best we can put out. I see James Maher future at half back and might switch Padraig and Joyce. I can see Ger Aylward as being absent too.

Why can you see him as being out, injury?

brookville · 25-02-2017 07:27PM

tbiggertycome wrote: »

I suppose what we need to do is realise there is going to be a few young lads that will need to learn their trade over the next year or two. They definitely have loads of talent the question is do the have the dedication to do the hard work required. One are that does worry my slightly is who are the leaders on that team? The defence doesn't seem to have anyone bossing them around or chewing them out on the pitch this I think is the biggest thing we've lost with the retirements. While I'm confident in the ability of the young lads to be close to what we've had before. I really wonder where are the 4 or 5 leaders a team that's gonna win the AI needs, will come out of. I don't know most of the lads involved but the few I do wouldn't or haven't done it so far.

Regarding the players you mentioned above a little update I got in the last few days

Ger Aylward- as said above was making great progress but had a slight hamstring twinge and will hopefully see time before the end of the League
John Walsh- again has been struggling with little niggles but is on the road to recovery
Jason Cleere- has Richie Doyle hip problems but they seem to have caught it early enough and they've built up enough muscles around it to compensate and protect him against the problems Richie had. He has been struggling with a shoulder injury since the week before the DCU Walsh cup game. It was feared he would need season ending surgery but he has come through thankfully and is training away again and hopefully will see time before the end of the League but it might come too early for him.
Chris Bolger- Is hurling well and hopefully Cody gives him a shot but if he doesn't theres usually a good reason why.
Tommy Walsh- I think he's on the edge of the panel called in occasionally for training I think he'll be very good but he needs more time IMO.

I have a theory on the Paul Murphy and Padraig Walsh situation I hope I'm right with this but I'm probably way off the mark. I think he is playing Padraig at FB to try and curb he's tendency to go forward so much and also to get him used to the centre. I think come the summer Padraig could be our CB with Murphy possibly FB or good cover encase of an injury.

The team I would like to see play come championship is
E Murphy
P Murphy, K Joyce, C Fogarty
J Maher, P Walsh, C Buckley
O Walsh, L Ryan obviously M Fennelly in here when he returns or CB
TJ Reid, R Hogan, C Fennelly
G Aylward, W Walsh, AN Other whoever shows up best

I wouldn't like to see fogarty go back corner back but from what I've seen of James maher so far this season he looks likes he has a long way to go with his fitness
Lester ryan is a big loss to our engine room especially in these conditions,hopefully luke scanlon see's action soon his a very good prospect

unrealtime · 25-02-2017 09:04PM

Hope I'm wrong as he is a scoring machine but I think Ger will struggle to get fit.

droppingball · 26-02-2017 12:11PM

Joyce definitely seems sharper this season, always thought he was too slow on the turn for full back, but I think no matter who we play there needs more protection. With the extra work on mobility someone mentioned he was doing, it could be worth a go to try him at three in next few games.

A lot of our players seem to be able to play in various positions. If we had options in midfield fogarty would be a good option at corner back but nobody besides Mick fennelly and himself cover as much ground around the middle third so a move may not be an option.

If we had options at the back I'd love to see Padraig Walsh at centre forward as he would give us a real threat running down the middle. None of our forwards seem dynamic enough to take backs on which is leading to no goals as there are no overlaps being created. Padraig would give us this.

Hopefully Cody can come across the right mix, the players would probably have loved to be out this weekend as they are probably stewing after last weekend.

If the players are being flogged it would explain the fall off against Clare, lets remain patient and give the young lads a chance and not be over critical, the pitches are bogs and they haven't developed yet.

Also lot of posters pinning hopes on lads who haven't had a start yet, I know its wishful thinking but trying to blend them into the team with experienced heads and then producing the goods is difficult. Cody can't throw them all in together. Leahy, lyng, Cody, morrisey, ollie walsh and even blanchfield have gotten there go and scanlon, john walsh, delaney, cleere and bolger will come in when time is right.

We won two all Irelands and lost the last one with this team so if we get Mick fennelly back and add maybe two players maybe aylward and one other we will go close. The media are salivating for a collapse of kilkenny but the boys will be anxious to not let it happen on there watch. Get the two points next week and build from there will be the target.

dubcat51 · 26-02-2017 07:26PM

Anyone at cbs v kireans today.any future stars?

tbiggertycome · 26-02-2017 07:37PM

dubcat51 wrote: »

Anyone at cbs v kireans today.any future stars?

Judge for yourself here.
HURLING LIVE: Top Oil Leinster Senior A final - St Kieran's v Kilkenny CBS by null on Livestream - http://livestream.com/accounts/15656115/events/7064907/videos/150473790

tbiggertycome · 26-02-2017 07:46PM

I thought the Keirans CB Martin Keoghan looked really good as did young Michael Carey the FB. The likes of A Mullen looked good at times and both 9 and 13 can't remember the names. There were some very good performers for CBS as well can't remember the names of them without the programme in front of me. I thought their best preformers were 4, 7 and 12

citykat · 26-02-2017 08:55PM

Poor match imo, similar to last year. Tight low scoring affair. Bar a couple on both sides, standard of forwards was average. Standouts for Kierans were Keoghan, Moylan and Mullen second half. For CBS Flynn first half, Molloy second half and Brassil. Special mention for Brennan, No.18 for Kieran's who's only U16. Dangerous in the first half. Unfortunately he may be lost to soccer in the near future.

brookville · 26-02-2017 09:27PM

citykat wrote: »

Poor match imo, similar to last year. Tight low scoring affair. Bar a couple on both sides, standard of forwards was average. Standouts for Kierans were Keoghan, Moylan and Mullen second half. For CBS Flynn first half, Molloy second half and Brassil. Special mention for Brennan, No.18 for Kieran's who's only U16. Dangerous in the first half. Unfortunately he may be lost to soccer in the near future.

It'll be interesting to see how cbs get on in the 1/4 final and you couldn't rule out both teams in the final.Kierans are very reliant on mullen if he has a off day they could struggle for scores.
What's the expectation for this year's minor crop?

dubcat51 · 26-02-2017 11:14PM

Just watched the game back.scrappy in difficult conditions.templemore are rated highly in tipp and cbs will play them in semi if they win quarter final.brennan off to bournemouth tomorrow but will be back for semi final.really talented lad good at soccer and hurling.

brookville · 26-02-2017 11:40PM

Just turning attention to sundays huge game and it really is a must win but it won't be easy.it'll be interesting to see what kinda team he puts out is he going to leave murphy at 6?hopefully pat lyng has recovered from injury he has being one of the better ones hopefully leahy starts as the more games these lads get the better id also be hoping conor delaney sees gametime soon and richie reid should also get a few league matches incase anything ever happened murphy
My team for sunday
Reid
Delaney,walsh,o shea
Murphy,buckley,joyce
Fogarty,deegan
Leahy,richie,lyng
Power,tj,bolger

kk1970 · 27-02-2017 12:00AM

brookville wrote: »

Just turning attention to sundays huge game and it really is a must win but it won't be easy.it'll be interesting to see what kinda team he puts out is he going to leave murphy at 6?hopefully pat lyng has recovered from injury he has being one of the better ones hopefully leahy starts as the more games these lads get the better id also be hoping conor delaney sees gametime soon and richie reid should also get a few league matches incase anything ever happened murphy
My team for sunday
Reid
Delaney,walsh,o shea
Murphy,buckley,joyce
Fogarty,deegan
Leahy,richie,lyng
Power,tj,bolger

well I've been looking at all the hurling over the last few weeks ... like Richie leahy 👍. Fitzgibbon cup it carlow Kevin kelly was a big loss for them... sorry to say lads but Chris bolger won't make it

dubcat51 · 27-02-2017 12:03AM

I was at the cork v dublin game.we need to shut down nashs short puck outs and go direct against their full back line.my team
Murphy
Murphy
Joey
O shea
Padraig
Joyce
Bucks
Fogarty
Kelly
Blanch
Richie
Tj
Jonjo
Walter
Bolger

brookville · 27-02-2017 12:52AM

kk1970 wrote: »

well I've been looking at all the hurling over the last few weeks ... like Richie leahy ðŸ‘. Fitzgibbon cup it carlow Kevin kelly was a big loss for them... sorry to say lads but Chris bolger won't make it

Infairness to bolger he had a good campaign with carlow and anyone looking at him for clara his definitely worth a few league games
Id imagine kevin kelly will be out for a few weeks he was a loss to carlow at the weekend,still baffling he played against clare last wknd when he was struggling with injury

usualstripes · 27-02-2017 12:52AM

dubcat51 wrote: »

I was at the cork v dublin game.we need to shut down nashs short puck outs and go direct against their full back line.my team
Murphy
Murphy
Joey
O shea
Padraig
Joyce
Bucks
Fogarty
Kelly
Blanch
Richie
Tj
Jonjo
Walter
Bolger

Just on your team.

No disrespect to conor o shea as he is a fine hurler but he has no pace. Gives possession away to easily and can't make it back.
I know Evan cody had a poor 1st half v clare but I would try him again or conor delaney in corner back.
I presume it's Richie hogan you have centre forward. What about leahy?
Would have him in ahead of john joe or bolger
Lester is a big loss.
We need to go for the jugular early on v cork.

Hawkeye6 · 27-02-2017 11:04AM

Fitzgibbon:
Great achievement for Carlow to get to the final. Dempsey and Carey showed their worth in delivering the goods, but it did not happen overnight either However, there are a huge number of Chris Bolger fans on here. Do you really think his performance in the Fitzgibbon final was sufficient enough to get him a spot on the Kilkenny senior team?

Colleges Final:
I posted here in depth last year about the problems of having so many players on the city schools panel, so no point in getting into it again. Suffice to say, too many potentially good players sitting on the subs benches for both schools and some didn’t even make the panels. As regards the match, the game started well but deteriorated. There was some good point scoring particularly from Niall Brassil and Adrian Mullen. The thing that caught my eye particularly in the second half was that both teams operated with a two man full forward line, which in my opinion contributed to a virtual complete lack of goal scoring chances, something which we have seen hit our senior squad of late. Almost every player who is suggested as a good potential for our senior team has come through one or the other school. If they have come through this type of coaching system is it any wonder goal scoring is becoming an issue. In my opinion the best goal scoring options suggested are John Walsh and Ger Aylward and neither of them came through these city schools. Thoughts?

Congress:
I posted about congress last week and I suppose I shouldn’t have been surprised but there was zero reaction. Then there are a lot of one dimensional posters. A lot probably thought there was no effect on Kilkenny hurling. I wonder now is there any reaction? With the All-Ireland final being moved forward 3 weeks, we in Kilkenny will most likely lose the window of opportunity to play all those early rounds of the local club championship in April/May/June. Will everything be moved forward? Will those of you who posted recently “its only February” be posting “its only January” from 2018?
Also huge blow to rural clubs that the motion supported by Kilkenny to reduce the age of “consent” back to 16 for playing adult was defeated. So if you turn 17 in January you can legally have sex in Ireland but you cannot play for your adult GAA club!!

Village87 · 27-02-2017 11:11AM

Diarmuid Cody has dropped himself from the panel so sources from the club say. Also Brian Cody has been removed as selector with the Village, not on his terms as far as i know. Bit of tension around at the moment

JimboJones99 · 27-02-2017 12:29PM

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

Also huge blow to rural clubs that the motion supported by Kilkenny to reduce the age of “consent” back to 16 for playing adult was defeated. So if you turn 17 in January you can legally have sex in Ireland but you cannot play for your adult GAA club!!

What has that got to do with anything GAA related?? Can they suffer burnout from having too much sex??

:D

unrealtime · 27-02-2017 06:34PM

I hope they all get plenty of it before the Cork match. It's probably the only pleasure they'll get next weekend.

tbiggertycome · 27-02-2017 08:18PM

Village87 wrote: »

Diarmuid Cody has dropped himself from the panel so sources from the club say. Also Brian Cody has been removed as selector with the Village, not on his terms as far as i know. Bit of tension around at the moment

Well Cody has been gone as a selector since ye're AGM back in November or December. Ye also ditched Tommy Lanigan as Chairman then as well. To be honest I'd say Cody will be happy to be out of the club side of things for a while. He may not be happy in the manner it happened I have no idea but that's what AGMs are for you hold votes and things change.

Has Diarmuid dropped himself from the Kilkenny or Village panel?

tbiggertycome · 27-02-2017 08:25PM

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

Congress:
I posted about congress last week and I suppose I shouldn’t have been surprised but there was zero reaction. Then there are a lot of one dimensional posters. A lot probably thought there was no effect on Kilkenny hurling.

I think the reason most did not react here is that there are other threads dedicated to the topics of the effects of the changes being put forward to Congress. While I understand it will most definitely have an effect on Kilkenny this thread is used to discuss Kilkenny matters and not ones which effect the whole association.

Sorry if I'm not broad-minded enough but I post on other threads when I have time but I try to restrict my activity here to discussing Kilkenny matters.

dubcat51 · 27-02-2017 09:52PM

usualstripes wrote: »

Just on your team.

No disrespect to conor o shea as he is a fine hurler but he has no pace. Gives possession away to easily and can't make it back.
I know Evan cody had a poor 1st half v clare but I would try him again or conor delaney in corner back.
I presume it's Richie hogan you have centre forward. What about leahy?
Would have him in ahead of john joe or bolger
Lester is a big loss.
We need to go for the jugular early on v cork.

Take your point on o shea just feel conditions this time of the year suit him
Richie at centre forward is to get him on the ball more.inhindsight would play tj at full forward as their full back v dublin was very poor.tj would outfield him snd score.jonjoe for me would pressure their back line and force mistakes.feel we need ro play our best players in their best positions simple as.

usualstripes · 27-02-2017 11:50PM

dubcat51 wrote: »

Take your point on o shea just feel conditions this time of the year suit him
Richie at centre forward is to get him on the ball more.inhindsight would play tj at full forward as their full back v dublin was very poor.tj would outfield him snd score.jonjoe for me would pressure their back line and force mistakes.feel we need ro play our best players in their best positions simple as.

All in all we need to be more patient with the t panel at the moment. We just don't have the strength in depth that we used to have. That's not saying we won't step up to the mark. The newer players need to adjust and find their feet.
We have to build from the back but our midfielders and forwards have to act as defenders at times to put pressure on our opposition backs. This has given us great success down through the years. It also creates openings and chances. Some strength in the tackles will help here and the newer guys just have to grasp this and work on it. Our forwards also need to be moving targets to pull backs out of their comfort zone.
It will all pan out. Just needs more cuteness and about 2 months of hurling training together when the clocks change and the weather and pitches become more favourable to hurling.

windy shepard henderson · 28-02-2017 01:08AM

any KK season ticket supporters who traveled up to ennis two weeks ago have any problem with there attendance being updated , or problems on the day with scanners ?

i have heard a number of clare supporters have had problems on the day

Village87 · 28-02-2017 09:20AM

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Well Cody has been gone as a selector since ye're AGM back in November or December. Ye also ditched Tommy Lanigan as Chairman then as well. To be honest I'd say Cody will be happy to be out of the club side of things for a while. He may not be happy in the manner it happened I have no idea but that's what AGMs are for you hold votes and things change.

Has Diarmuid dropped himself from the Kilkenny or Village panel?

So i heard, he has to establish himself on the Village team before he can establish himself on the Kilkenny Panel, very poor for club last year. Brian had many disagreements with the fellow selectors over the inclusion and bigger problems when the other selectors tried to withdraw him during matches.

Management from last year said they would all walk unless Brian goes, hence he was voted out at the AGM

Hawkeye6 · 28-02-2017 01:57PM

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Sorry if I'm not broad-minded enough but I post on other threads when I have time but I try to restrict my activity here to discussing Kilkenny matters.

That's a pity, I wouldn't have considered you one of the one dimensional posters. Your posts are usually knowledgably and I'm sure you would have interesting thoughts and opinions on the subject and how they do affect Kilkenny GAA.
The thread is called Kilkenny GAA, and in my opinion, Fitzgibbon, Colleges and of course Congress all relate directly to Kilkenny GAA and I thought it might make for more interesting debate than the continued discussion around one part of Kilkenny GAA, the senior team. Kilkenny GAA is much bigger and broader. There's been plenty of fantasy teams and "team I'd like to see" and people are entitled to that, but I prefer hearing facts or knowledgeable opinion rather than fantasy and hearsay and people who are abroad are more interested in genuine information and discussion that they do not have access to. I stick to Kilkenny GAA, but if you recommend other forums, please let us know. I just don't like Kilkenny GAA being painted as a one trick pony when we have so much going on.

Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Comments

Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 MOD NOTE POST 1*