"Why I did not report my rapist"

Skyfarm · 26-02-2017 11:05AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Let's summarise some of the questions being raised in this thread.

Were you drinking?
Why did you not try and physically resist him?
Why did you not shout so the other people could hear you?
If you slept with him before didn't he have reason to expect it again?
If you kept kissing him after you said no to sex is this not consent to sex?
Why did you stop saying no?
Are you simply looking for attention?
Why do you style your hair like that?

It's like the scumbag lawyers guide to defending a rape case. I'd say there'd be plenty of posters lining up to shake his hand if they could.

i find this very troubling that a "mod" would be taking that view, is this the official board view?

before i get the volunteer/time given /we should be so lucky mantra that we have mods, i expect a company to have safeguards in place that would prevent personal views being given by people employed/voulnteering on any company behalf , maybe its time to correct this imbalance by giving mods "boards" accounts and letting them speak on their personal accounts

Skyfarm · 26-02-2017 11:08AM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

I'm very sorry to hear that-did you ever get any help for the trauma you suffered?

very much so , i now advocate on all levels to reduce the harm done by the constant victimhood approach /industry.

i say that "Abuse is abuse is abuse"

i try to speak and say healing is very very possible and it shouldn't define a persons life

stefanovich · 26-02-2017 11:10AM

Skyfarm wrote: »

i find this very troubling that a "mod" would be taking that view, is this the official board view?

before i get the volunteer/time given /we should be so lucky mantra that we have mods, i expect a company to have safeguards in place that would prevent personal views being given by people employed/voulnteering on any company behalf , maybe its time to correct this imbalance by giving mods "boards" accounts and letting them speak on their personal accounts

Read it again, he was paraphrasing others.

One eyed Jack · 26-02-2017 11:12AM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Well, normally I would agree, on the no, but even on her twitter feed she's all like 'So I just lay there rather than cause a fuss'...

Like, no, just absolutely no.

professore wrote: »

I can't imagine a guy ever saying he just let his "rapist" get on with it as it was less hassle than telling him to fcuk off.

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Then her tweet 'I just lay there and didn't want to cause a fuss'...um, no. No, many rape victims will tell you that that was the last thing they wanted to do.

This is one of the details of her account that is actually quite common among people who have been raped, and it's not a freezing out of fear, or it's not fearing for their safety, or anything that actually makes rational, logical common sense in the cold light of day. It's a reaction that defies logic and all that is commonly understood about rape, but it absolutely does, and can happen that someone will simply... "resign" themselves to the inevitable almost, there's no better way of saying that which would make any sense. Many people who have been raped will absolutely tell you in their own words that they just wanted to get it over with so they just lay there and let it happen.

stefanovich · 26-02-2017 11:13AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

This is one of the details of her account that is actually quite common among people who have been raped, and it's not a freezing out of fear, or it's not fearing for their safety, or anything that actually makes rational, logical common sense in the cold light of day. It's a reaction that defies logic and all that is commonly understood about rape, but it absolutely does, and can happen that someone will simply... "resign" themselves to the inevitable almost, there's no better way of saying that which would make any sense. Many people who have been raped will absolutely tell you in their own words that they just wanted to get it over with so they just lay there and let it happen.

So you could be having sex with someone and rape them without knowing it? They could be saying no in their head?

ibarelycare · 26-02-2017 11:14AM

Tramore Tilly wrote: »

I think people have either lost the plot or are just arguing for the sake of it.

If a woman says no, you stop. You do not carry on in the hope she will change her mind. If she says no again and you do not stop you are crossing a line.

If a person finds themselves in a position where they are being touched, they say no and the other person continues , they are put in a situation where they feel having sex is the safest option. That is rape. It has happened to me. It is not as simple as a one night stand that you regret the morning after. Having sex out of fear is completely different.

If someone says stop or no..you f*cking stop and don't have the arrogance to believe you are a stud muffin who will win her/him over.

Rosemary wasn't in fear. She had sex with him to avoid an awkward conversation. She wasn't raped.

suicide_circus · 26-02-2017 11:14AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Plenty of posters simply resorted to insulting the blogger. It's a despicable tactic to use against someone who believes they were raped, even if they are wrong.

This social influencer is using the currency of victimhood to strengthen her brand. She is peddling her beauty/fashion blog and using a vague rape/non rape story to do it. She is misappropriating rape for likes and retweets. Unpleasant if not reprehensible.

One eyed Jack · 26-02-2017 11:18AM

stefanovich wrote: »

So you could be having sex with someone and rape them without knowing it? They could be saying no in their head?

I didn't say anything like that.

ibarelycare · 26-02-2017 11:19AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Plenty of posters simply resorted to insulting the blogger. It's a despicable tactic to use against someone who believes they were raped, even if they are wrong.

I agree about people insulting Rosemary, it's not on. However that's a minority of posters. Otherwise there's a very valid and important (imo) discussion happening. Unfortunately by her tagging boards in her tweet, the thread will likely be closed as, rather than accept that many people disagree with her, she's using the "they're insulting my character" angle to attempt to stop the discussion.

professore · 26-02-2017 11:19AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Let's summarise some of the questions being raised in this thread.

Were you drinking?
Why did you not try and physically resist him?
Why did you not shout so the other people could hear you?
If you slept with him before didn't he have reason to expect it again?
If you kept kissing him after you said no to sex is this not consent to sex?
Why did you stop saying no?
Are you simply looking for attention?
Why do you style your hair like that?

It's like the scumbag lawyers guide to defending a rape case. I'd say there'd be plenty of posters lining up to shake his hand if they could.

Ok, what questions would you ask? Or is just stating "I was raped" enough to convict someone? Should we accept that there was a serious incident in Sweden just because Trump says so? There is a reason the legal system exists in the form it does. It's not perfect but "Innocent until proven guilty" is there for good reason. Otherwise Maurice McCabe would be serving a nice long stretch in prison.

Penny Tration · 26-02-2017 11:21AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Plenty of posters simply resorted to insulting the blogger. It's a despicable tactic to use against someone who believes they were raped, even if they are wrong.

If it's a despicable tactic, why do you resort to the same, in insulting essentially everyone who disagrees or raises questions about her account of the incident?

And as IBC said, that's a small minority of posters (who insult RMC).

I'd hazard a guess that for a controversial topic, this is probably the least insulting, messy and modded in AH recently. It's an important discussion, and the vast majority of posters on both sides have been mature, articulate, and engaged in decent discussion.

26-02-2017 11:28AM

It is an incredibly important discussion to have. The words "rape" and "rapist" are extraordinarily dangerous and can have life changing effects, especially as a man, because, let's face it, in many of these cases, the law/society primarily isn't in the man's favour.

somenewlady · 26-02-2017 11:31AM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

...

Why would someone have sex and see that as the safest option? I don't get the logic there. I just don't.

Because it's easier to lie there and not fight than risk finding out that you don't have the strength to physically fight a guy if he starts to get violent? Because it's easier to persaude yourself that you haven't been raped if it was in your own bed in your home by someone you knew & thought you could trust and you just lay there instead of fighting?

Like many moments in life, everyone will react differently when it happens to them. I am, by my own admission, a fairly independent woman, not super pretty, I dress in jeans/sneakers/tshirts and I'm fairly comfy in my own skin. I grew up with a bunch of male friends and I always knew if i was ever assualted, physically or sexually, in the street or in my home, I'd be able to fight back, I wouldn't just let it happen. Yet I did. Twice. The first time, because he started getting violent, and the second time because there was two of them, and because I knew what could happen if I kept saying no.

I'm sure a lot of others will have had a similiar experience, you think you'll react one way and you don't. I don't agree with much of Rosemary's blogging stuff or that whole "social influencer" lifestyle, but I do understand why she "let" what happened to her happen.

PS RabbleRouser, not having a go at you, just that line caught my eye & put the above thoughts in my head which I then put on boards!

Wibbs · 26-02-2017 11:32AM

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a lot of self styled public/influential figures on Facebook who wouldn't leave criticism last too long on their page. That's the nature of Facebook, it's their page, there is no rule or requirement that they must accept criticism or else it's just not cricket.

True and like yourself I have no particular issue with that on the face of it. For me it just illustrates the increase in popularity of online echo chambers and to some degree entrenching of positions. Forums like this are on the way out, at least currently. Reddit style forums have up and down voting which in effect reinforces whatever local worldview is the popular one. Again more of an echo chamber.

suicide_circus wrote: »

Victimhood is currency.

It really seems to be in some circles and widening ones at that. When did we decide as a society to celebrate victimhood/weaknesses, rather than overcoming same?

Skyfarm wrote: »

Many years ago i was struggling with life ,drink drugs crime ,marriage breakup it was a direct result of me throwing them back my neck, but the darkness of the past needed to be blocked, i realised that i wanted needed help , if i remember right it was 1999/2000 and approached the rape crisis centre in Cork for help and they smiled as they told me it was only a women service and couldn't help

The sad fact is women(in the west) are more supported and protected, socially and in law.

I am all for people telling their storys to ease the burden of the past
what i disagree with is that men are only "rapists" attuide of 99.99 percent of media, bloggers etc

We are creating more pain and suffering by pushing the truth away , women are abusers as much as men and abuse on the same scale

They're really not. Yes in cases of domestic abuse the numbers are far more equal than many suppose and men get far less support, but not in sexual abuse stats gathered all over the place for decades anyway. Just as men are more likely to be victims of violence, women are more likely to be victims of sexual assault. This is not to denigrate the real suffering of anyone, but IMH it helps nobody to twist reality to a particular worldview.

stefanovich · 26-02-2017 11:33AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I didn't say anything like that.

Well, you mentioned laying there and letting it happen. You didn't mention the victim saying "No" or physical force being used by the attacker.

Wibbs · 26-02-2017 11:34AM

Skyfarm wrote: »

i find this very troubling that a "mod" would be taking that view, is this the official board view?

I'm a mod too. Are my views any more "troubling" or "official"? They have an opinion and I have mine, just like anyone here.

professore · 26-02-2017 11:36AM

The problem here is that we weren't there ... If she says "no" playfully while slapping him away and saying things like "people might hear us" that's very different to saying "no" and pushing him away and asking him to leave - or different again from him pinning her against the wall and saying aggressively "I know you want it" and her saying "yes" out of fear, or freezing.

Also if this was some anonymous person online I would be much quicker to take this at face value but she is a public figure and "social influencer" who knows she will get massive positive publicity for this, it puts her story under much closer scrutiny.

Perhaps she was raped - and if so that is awful and I have every sympathy and compassion for her - but she didn't do a very good job of describing it, and has planted the thought that any time a woman has sex with a guy and regrets it afterwards has been raped.

stefanovich · 26-02-2017 11:38AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Let's summarise some of the questions being raised in this thread.

Were you drinking?
Why did you not try and physically resist him?
Why did you not shout so the other people could hear you?
If you slept with him before didn't he have reason to expect it again?
If you kept kissing him after you said no to sex is this not consent to sex?
Why did you stop saying no?
Are you simply looking for attention?
Why do you style your hair like that?

It's like the scumbag lawyers guide to defending a rape case. I'd say there'd be plenty of posters lining up to shake his hand if they could.

Wibbs wrote: »

I'm a mod too. Are my views any more "troubling" or "official"? They have an opinion and I have mine, just like anyone here.

As I already said previously, he is paraphrasing other people's posts and then making a negative comment about them.

It's as if Skyfarm is looking to be offended.

One eyed Jack · 26-02-2017 11:39AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It is an incredibly important discussion to have. The words "rape" and "rapist" are extraordinarily dangerous and can have life changing effects, especially as a man, because, let's face it, in many of these cases, the law/society primarily isn't in the man's favour.

It isn't that simple at all though, as this thread must clearly have shown by now. It's very much dependent on the circumstances of each individual case. The law is meant to be objective, and that's why many people (of either gender, victim or the accused) will say that the law/society wasn't/isn't fair on them.

professore · 26-02-2017 11:40AM

somenewlady wrote: »

Because it's easier to lie there and not fight than risk finding out that you don't have the strength to physically fight a guy if he starts to get violent? Because it's easier to persaude yourself that you haven't been raped if it was in your own bed in your home by someone you knew & thought you could trust and you just lay there instead of fighting?

Like many moments in life, everyone will react differently when it happens to them. I am, by my own admission, a fairly independent woman, not super pretty, I dress in jeans/sneakers/tshirts and I'm fairly comfy in my own skin. I grew up with a bunch of male friends and I always knew if i was ever assualted, physically or sexually, in the street or in my home, I'd be able to fight back, I wouldn't just let it happen. Yet I did. Twice. The first time, because he started getting violent, and the second time because there was two of them, and because I knew what could happen if I kept saying no.

I'm sure a lot of others will have had a similiar experience, you think you'll react one way and you don't. I don't agree with much of Rosemary's blogging stuff or that whole "social influencer" lifestyle, but I do understand why she "let" what happened to her happen.

PS RabbleRouser, not having a go at you, just that line caught my eye & put the above thoughts in my head which I then put on boards!

Did you tell anyone? As a guy being told this I'd be very angry at any guy who did this and call them out on it. Scumbags.

Little CuChulainn · 26-02-2017 11:41AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

This social influencer is using the currency of victimhood to strengthen her brand. She is peddling her beauty/fashion blog and using a vague rape/non rape story to do it. She is misappropriating rape for likes and retweets. Unpleasant if not reprehensible.

And that warrants people insulting her based on her choice of hair style?

ibarelycare wrote: »

I agree about people insulting Rosemary, it's not on. However that's a minority of posters. Otherwise there's a very valid and important (imo) discussion happening. Unfortunately by her tagging boards in her tweet, the thread will likely be closed as, rather than accept that many people disagree with her, she's using the "they're insulting my character" angle to attempt to stop the discussion.

Many of them are insulting her character. Don't get me wrong there is a valid debate to have on the issue of consent and the issue of publishing an allegation but a person who resorts to insulting an alleged victim in order to prove they weren't raped is very much the type of person who would shake his hand. And there have been plenty of them here.

professore wrote: »

Ok, what questions would you ask? Or is just stating "I was raped" enough to convict someone? Should we accept that there was a serious incident in Sweden just because Trump says so? There is a reason the legal system exists in the form it does. It's not perfect but "Innocent until proven guilty" is there for good reason. Otherwise Maurice McCabe would be serving a nice long stretch in prison.

I'd ask questions that were relevant to whether she gave consent, not what kind of person she was. if someone you knew came to you and told you they were raped, how many of those questions do you think would be relevant?

Penny Tration wrote: »

If it's a despicable tactic, why do you resort to the same, in insulting essentially everyone who disagrees or raises questions about her account of the incident?

And as IBC said, that's a small minority of posters.

I'd hazard a guess that for a controversial topic, this is probably the least insulting, messy and modded in AH recently. It's an important discussion, and the vast majority of posters on both sides have been mature, articulate, and engaged in decent discussion.

It's not a small minority of posters. It's been pretty common in the thread. Although in fairness to the mods they have been quite on the ball. I was in no way referring to everyone who disagrees with her, i was referring to those who skipped the concept of consent and went straight to the character assassination.

One eyed Jack · 26-02-2017 11:43AM

stefanovich wrote: »

Well, you mentioned laying there and letting it happen. You didn't mention the victim saying "No" or physical force being used by the attacker.

I can't give you a direct answer to your question then. It's not that I'm reluctant to give you a direct answer or anything else, but you're looking for a direct answer with no context, and I don't do hypotheticals because a real situation could go either way depending upon numerous other factors and circumstances involved.

professore · 26-02-2017 11:44AM

stefanovich wrote: »

As I already said previously, he is paraphrasing other people's posts and then making a negative comment about them.

It's as if Skyfarm is looking to be offended.

I think some of them are questions asked out of a desire to understand, rather than any malicious reason. If it's never happened to you, you don't know what it's actually like and how people might not react as you might expect.

That said, that's not the only motivation for some people.

The Backwards Man · 26-02-2017 11:47AM

Penny Tration wrote: »

If it's a despicable tactic, why do you resort to the same, in insulting essentially everyone who disagrees or raises questions about her account of the incident?

And as IBC said, that's a small minority of posters (who insult RMC).

I'd hazard a guess that for a controversial topic, this is probably the least insulting, messy and modded in AH recently. It's an important discussion, and the vast majority of posters on both sides have been mature, articulate, and engaged in decent discussion.

I must be reading a different thread, the majority of posters in this thread seem to be queuing up to get a dig at this woman, many of whom I used to have a lot more respect for.

I know nothing about this woman and I don't really want to know anything about her considering how she's conducting herself regarding this subject, but the amount of people falling over themselves to get their insults in is quite clear for a neutral to see.

neonsofa · 26-02-2017 11:50AM

professore wrote: »

The problem here is that we weren't there ... If she says "no" playfully while slapping him away and saying things like "people might hear us" that's very different to saying "no" and pushing him away and asking him to leave - or different again from him pinning her against the wall and saying aggressively "I know you want it" and her saying "yes" out of fear, or freezing.

Also if this was some anonymous person online I would be much quicker to take this at face value but she is a public figure and "social influencer" who knows she will get massive positive publicity for this, it puts her story under much closer scrutiny.

Perhaps she was raped - and if so that is awful and I have every sympathy and compassion for her - but she didn't do a very good job of describing it, and has planted the thought that any time a woman has sex with a guy and regrets it afterwards has been raped.

I am beginning to wonder, having read her reaction to the negative comments, did she just maybe not explain herself very well. I know many people who looking back on their rape could tell you their thought process, even if at the time they didn't quite understand it, many stop fighting as they know "no" is not stopping him, many freeze out of fear, many accept it is happening and cannot do anything, but I don't know any who would say that they let him out of politeness to avoid an awkward conversation. I am sure many rape victims, myself included, would have chosen the awkward conversation over what happened to us.

But then again maybe she is just not good with putting things into words (ironic given her chosen career) and her thought process was not as she explained but she was unable to articulate that feeling of..almost acceptance/resignation..after saying no so many times, because there is no other feeling like it, it is difficult to explain. I don't know what to think about it tbh. I am trying to understand because I really don't think, as some seem to be suggesting, that she chose to embellish the truth purely for selfish reasons. I don't think her account of the story is clear enough and maybe that is how the situation happened and it is all unclear but if that is the case then defining it as rape when the events were so unclear is misguided. Maybe she feels it was a clear case of rape though and it is her written account that has made it seem unclear?

Wibbs · 26-02-2017 11:52AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

And that warrants people insulting her based on her choice of hair style?

I'm with you there. WTF has her hairstyle or looks got to do with a damn thing? Meh, if she was a model or she was uneasy on the eye, her looks would be pointed out. That is very much a gender thing. Not saying it doesn't sometimes come into a debate about a man, but it's much more likely to be brought to bear on women. Including BTW, by other women.

professore · 26-02-2017 11:54AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

And that warrants people insulting her based on her choice of hair style?

Many of them are insulting her character. Don't get me wrong there is a valid debate to have on the issue of consent and the issue of publishing an allegation but a person who resorts to insulting an alleged victim in order to prove they weren't raped is very much the type of person who would shake his hand. And there have been plenty of them here.

I'd ask questions that were relevant to whether she gave consent, not what kind of person she was. if someone you knew came to you and told you they were raped, how many of those questions do you think would be relevant?

It's not a small minority of posters. It's been pretty common in the thread. Although in fairness to the mods they have been quite on the ball. I was in no way referring to everyone who disagrees with her, i was referring to those who skipped the concept of consent and went straight to the character assassination.

Insulting her character is unwarranted.

As I've tried to point out a few times already, consent as defined by saying yes or no is far too simplistic. In my view "I tried to put him off but in the end I felt it was easier just to have sex" is very different than "I was afraid of him so I agreed to have sex". Unfortunately it's very difficult to prove either way. So I'd listen to the story and take it from there.

There have been a few clear cut accounts of rape on here that left no doubt in my mind what happened, I didn't have that from the account in question.

Little CuChulainn · 26-02-2017 11:56AM

professore wrote: »

As I've tried to point out a few times already, consent as defined by saying yes or no is far too simplistic. In my view "I tried to put him off but in the end I felt it was easier just to have sex" is very different than "I was afraid of him so I agreed to have sex". Unfortunately it's very difficult to prove either way. So I'd listen to the story and take it from there.

There have been a few clear cut accounts of rape on here that left no doubt in my mind what happened, I didn't have that from the account in question.

That's perfectly reasonable and I have no issue with that kind of argument even if I do disagree with it.

Wibbs · 26-02-2017 11:57AM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I must be reading a different thread, the majority of posters in this thread seem to be queuing up to get a dig at this woman.

Yes some are. However people getting a dig in about what she says is different to getting a dig in about her. This is all too common a confusion I have found(and/or a way to shut down debate). Just because I might think your opinion is daft, it does not follow I assume you are. Like the Boards rule goes; attack the post, not the poster.

Samaris · 26-02-2017 11:57AM

I see the old Mod Borg Mind has made a comeback both in here and in reported posts. Our last hive mind broke and we've not replaced it. Until then, I'm afraid we remain individual people with individual opinions and when there's no Mod: bit at the start, we are speaking as posters.

Mod: And back on topic, no more implying that people who don't agree are supporters of rape or sexual abuse. It crosses a line and adds nothing to the conversation. (Same goes for personal attacks on the author's appearance.) Yis can PM me if you want to discuss how mods are plugged into the Cube, but the thread doesn't need to be derailed any further.

"Why I did not report my rapist"

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