Louise O Neill on rape culture.

Special Circumstances · 10-02-2017 05:24PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'm taking about the grey area where people have sex and it isn't forced, just not consentual.

That's only a grey area IF you demand a bipartisan treaty with a reasonable cooling off period and a proof of sobriety as "consent".

It's perfectly possible to have sex without that level of codology without it being rape. You should try it!

silverharp · 10-02-2017 05:28PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's likely to count as all the reasonable due diligence from a legal perspective, wouldn't you say?

only in a very formulaic way, we aren't dealing with a transaction here. Not that I can think of an example now but Im sure in life Ive said yes to things where I'd have preferred to say no. Saying No is clear, saying nothing or saying Yes doesn't objectively tell the other person about the state of mind of the person.
Maybe we could have a lie detector that the person must speak into, it could be an app?

givyjoe · 10-02-2017 05:43PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's likely to count as all the reasonable due diligence from a legal perspective, wouldn't you say?

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Only if one of them is lying. Sure anyone can make a ale accusation against anyone else. They don't necessarily have to have had sex for a false accusation.

I'm taking about the grey area where people have sex and it isn't forced, just not consentual.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's better than telling them it was only regret sex and to chalk it up to experience.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I wouldn't even know how to relate that analogy to the conversation were having about consent.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Not from anything I've said.

For the love of jebus.. multi quote. It's the button beside quote, just keep clicking the button until you capture all the quotes you wish to reference.

neonsofa · 10-02-2017 05:58PM

silverharp wrote: »

only in a very formulaic way, we aren't dealing with a transaction here. Not that I can think of an example now but Im sure in life Ive said yes to things where I'd have preferred to say no. Saying No is clear, saying nothing or saying Yes doesn't objectively tell the other person about the state of mind of the person.
Maybe we could have a lie detector that the person must speak into, it could be an app?

Also if someone is so uncomfortable/pressured in a situation where they feel they have to go along with sex that they don't want, surely the person saying to them "you're OK to have sex yeah?" is not going to suddenly fill them with the confidence to say no I want you to stop.

mzungu · 10-02-2017 06:11PM

Wibbs wrote: »

As I've been saying it always comes back to "women are always agent less victims and men are always to blame". Even in the examples above when women themselves claim agency(mad eh?) and don't see themselves as victims the Sisterhood of the Church of the Perpetual Victim claim them as unwilling acolytes. Forget men asking WTF, more women should be rounding on these deluded muppets with issues and political axes to grind.

Widdershins wrote: »

We do but frequent contact with zealous nutcases is not good for your health. We are written off as internalised misogyny sufferers anyway.

I think a lot of this mode of thinking stems from Catharine MacKinnon's various writings on the matter. For example:

Catherine MacKinnon wrote:

”Perhaps the wrong of rape has proven so difficult to articulate because the unquestionable starting point has been that rape is definable as distinct from intercourse, when for women it is difficult to distinguish them under conditions of male dominance.”

Mackinnon, C. (1983) Feminism, Marxism, Method, and the State: Toward Feminist Jurisprudence. Signs. Vol. 8 No. 4.

The above quote is representative of Mackinnon's views on the matter espoused through her many books and journal articles on the subject. To be fair, she has been called out quite a bit by her peers down through the years. Whilst her ideas may have appeared at the time as being an outlier of even 1980s radfem philosophy, in recent years it has gained inroads on the mainstream through 'affirmative consent' being introducted into legislation in both California and New York.

This has also spread to universities where the policies have been rewritten to allow unwanted advances to be included as sexual harassment. Harvard's new policy states that if the complainant feels that conduct is "undesirable" or "offensive" then it fits under the umbrella of sexual harassment:

Harvard Gazette wrote:

“The standard we’ve adopted is that of unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature…. In our policy, we talk about how you determine if it is unwelcomed conduct. There’s more in the policy to elaborate, but essentially conduct is unwelcome if a person did not request or invite it and regarded the conduct as undesirable or offensive”

Link: http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2014/07/qa-with-harvards-title-ix-officer/

In cases where sexual harassment is involved, then the above is A OK. However, what if somebody finds a mere cold approach at a bar as being offensive (rare but can happen) can the approacher expect reprimand from the university? The barriers, it seems anyways, have been lowered in order to try and catch as many perpetrators as possible. The downside of this is, that although they are catching a lot of offenders, they also seem to be catching a lot of innocent men too.

More recently, in an American Law Institute review of the Moral Penal Code for sexual assault, affirmative consent proponents were drafting a new code on sexual offences. They wished to shift the burden of proof on the accused which was roundly rejected. The question is, if the American Law Institute deem affirmative consent to be unlawful, why exactly are US universities like Harvard going ahead with it? Although, that one would be for a different thread!

A lot of this "internalised misogyny" stuff stems from MacKinnon's ideas that in all walks of life, women are under the thrall of "male dominance". While it might fly under the banner of liberation, in reality hers is an ultra-conservative outlook and is about as progressive as a small town in bible belt country.

DanielODonnell · 10-02-2017 06:16PM

It i usually not "weirdos" or perverts who rape, it is usually men who hang around bars and nightclubs, the average pervert is generally content looking at pornography or even going to escorts if they are that way inclined.

darkpagandeath · 10-02-2017 06:21PM

DanielODonnell wrote: »

It i usually not "weirdos" or perverts who rape, it is usually men who hang around bars and nightclubs, the average pervert is generally content looking at pornography or even going to escorts if they are that way inclined.

The statistics show unequivocally you should be only worried about your partner if he is a man and you are a woman.

silverharp · 10-02-2017 06:21PM

neonsofa wrote: »

Also if someone is so uncomfortable/pressured in a situation where they feel they have to go along with sex that they don't want, surely the person saying to them "you're OK to have sex yeah?" is not going to suddenly fill them with the confidence to say no I want you to stop.

exactly, as far as I can see is that one party shouldn't have engineered a situation where there is a subtle or not so subtle threat of violence or to safety in which case the "yes" was obtained under possible duress and in the situations that we are talking about here we are assuming no party has any mal intentions. so "yes" doesn't add anything to the process , on the other hand "No" does.

DanielODonnell · 10-02-2017 06:38PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

The statistics show unequivocally you should be only worried about your partner if he is a man and you are a woman.

Statistics tell nothing about a mans personality, I would bet my life savings that the majority of the worlds rapists were viewed as normal men by their neighbours and friends before they were discovered to be a rapist.

darkpagandeath · 10-02-2017 06:43PM

DanielODonnell wrote: »

Statistics tell nothing about a mans personality, I would bet my life savings that the majority of the worlds rapists were viewed as normal men by their neighbours and friends before they were discovered to be a rapist.

I'm not labelling men, Trying to point out That the statistics do not verify any hysterical claims of Rape culture for example.

Take the ones used about under reporting.. They then go on to use Charity statistics. So they have actually been reported just not to the Garda for example.

RabbleRouser2k · 11-02-2017 01:47AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm not labelling men, Trying to point out That the statistics do not verify any hysterical claims of Rape culture for example.

Take the ones used about under reporting.. They then go on to use Charity statistics. So they have actually been reported just not to the Garda for example.

Generally speaking most folks, when they talk about convicted rapists, always talk about how 'odd' they were-something was off. Even Saville, something was 'off'-and one could never pinpoint it.
Same with neighbours.

The rape stats-well, yes, they are reported. More so than many others claim. But then when we are led to believe 'oh, those stats are wrong'-well, that is just ridiculous. We do also know that if a man is raped by a woman, he will not be believed based on his gender. But if a woman even hints that there was something untoward...the guy is in serious trouble. Even if he proves, beyond reasonable doubt, nothing happened-mud sticks.

professore · 11-02-2017 01:57AM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Generally speaking most folks, when they talk about convicted rapists, always talk about how 'odd' they were-something was off. Even Saville, something was 'off'-and one could never pinpoint it.
Same with neighbours.

The rape stats-well, yes, they are reported. More so than many others claim. But then when we are led to believe 'oh, those stats are wrong'-well, that is just ridiculous. We do also know that if a man is raped by a woman, he will not be believed based on his gender. But if a woman even hints that there was something untoward...the guy is in serious trouble. Even if he proves, beyond reasonable doubt, nothing happened-mud sticks.

By the legal definition of rape in Ireland, a woman cannot commit a rape unless she uses an object to penetrate another person. Even a 30 year old woman forcing a 10 year old boy to perform cunnilingus on her is not committing rape. Therefore by definition, men are going to be committing the vast majority of rapes. She is only guilty of the lesser crime of sexual assault.

4.—(1) In this Act “rape under section 4 ” means a sexual assault that includes—

(a) penetration (however slight) of the anus or mouth by the penis, or

(b) penetration (however slight) of the vagina by any object held or manipulated by another person.

(2) A person guilty of rape under section 4 shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for life.

(3) Rape under section 4 shall be a felony.

For a country with a rampant rape culture, life imprisonment is a pretty harsh sentence, and doesn't fit that narrative.

darkpagandeath · 11-02-2017 03:52AM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Generally speaking most folks, when they talk about convicted rapists, always talk about how 'odd' they were-something was off. Even Saville, something was 'off'-and one could never pinpoint it.
Same with neighbours.

The rape stats-well, yes, they are reported. More so than many others claim. But then when we are led to believe 'oh, those stats are wrong'-well, that is just ridiculous. We do also know that if a man is raped by a woman, he will not be believed based on his gender. But if a woman even hints that there was something untoward...the guy is in serious trouble. Even if he proves, beyond reasonable doubt, nothing happened-mud sticks.

Yup that's the worst part... A convicted woman Rapist for example would not have the same stigma a man does for being accused.

The_Captain · 13-02-2017 12:08PM

Widdershins wrote: »

Is it generally accepted as a form of consent?

In society, yeah.

Legally, also yes.

Most people understand there's social cues, body language and situations that can be used to express desire or consent without an actual verbal agreement.

RabbleRouser2k · 14-02-2017 05:13AM

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/male-aggression-is-out-of-control-3231703-Feb2017/

I really have to question the accusations in this piece- and where she's coming from in terms of her psychoanalysis-plus the allegation of violence at the gym? IF it were true, name the gym, and make sure the gardai were told.
No use revealing it on twitter-or facebook-doesn't stop it happening again.

Seriously doubt her allegations, as well as the mention of rape on tv shows-like, that's fiction. (Also loses me when mentioning Amy Schumer-a woman who joked about her actually raping a guy, which happened).

Also, as the comments below note-the 'author' is often using her instagram to promote stuff like 'jeans that will make men wolf whistle at you'...dear sweet jeebus, the irony is strong, so strong...

givyjoe · 14-02-2017 10:28AM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/male-aggression-is-out-of-control-3231703-Feb2017/

I really have to question the accusations in this piece- and where she's coming from in terms of her psychoanalysis-plus the allegation of violence at the gym? IF it were true, name the gym, and make sure the gardai were told.
No use revealing it on twitter-or facebook-doesn't stop it happening again.

Seriously doubt her allegations, as well as the mention of rape on tv shows-like, that's fiction. (Also loses me when mentioning Amy Schumer-a woman who joked about her actually raping a guy, which happened).

Also, as the comments below note-the 'author' is often using her instagram to promote stuff like 'jeans that will make men wolf whistle at you'...dear sweet jeebus, the irony is strong, so strong...

Maybe I'm being naive myself, but I dont doubt it happened (the gym incident) but, you've got to be a little less naive in your surroundings. As the little boll1cks said, if she was a man.. Another young lad on his own in the gym would be wise enough to not to say anything. If he did however, things may well have ended differently. He would also been abused verbally with whatever came to their minds. It really isn't hard to spot these such scum and getting in their face is going to have an obvious undesired result.

Not even remotely justifying any of it, but you have to be smarter and not get involved in these situations to start with. Poking the bear and what not..

Still taking a massive leap in stringing this altogether into further 'evidence' of a rape culture.

Widdershins · 14-02-2017 10:28AM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/male-aggression-is-out-of-control-3231703-Feb2017/

I really have to question the accusations in this piece- and where she's coming from in terms of her psychoanalysis-plus the allegation of violence at the gym? IF it were true, name the gym, and make sure the gardai were told.
No use revealing it on twitter-or facebook-doesn't stop it happening again.

Seriously doubt her allegations, as well as the mention of rape on tv shows-like, that's fiction. (Also loses me when mentioning Amy Schumer-a woman who joked about her actually raping a guy, which happened).

Also, as the comments below note-the 'author' is often using her instagram to promote stuff like 'jeans that will make men wolf whistle at you'...dear sweet jeebus, the irony is strong, so strong...

It's far-fetched but as someone said in a comment, they could have been ''roid heads'' and they're hardly representative of 'alpha males' as she calls them. In no other situation would people accept cherry picking like that to stereotype a group of people by their race, hair colour or gender. Why it is acceptable to do it to men is a mystery.

Maybe she'll clarify whether she reported it to the Gardai. At least comments are allowed under her articles.

It sounds like this gym man would have treated her worse if she was male, weirdly enough. She admits he said he'd have broken her teeth if she was a man.

Wibbs · 14-02-2017 10:47AM

givyjoe wrote: »

Still taking a massive leap in stringing this altogether into further 'evidence' of a rape culture.

Not if someone is a) invested in this idea, b) a hysteric, c) earning money fanning the flames.

Journal writer quote wrote:

Like rape culture, terrorism exists as a kind of vague “omnipresent and often unidentifiable threat;” it’s almost impossible to prevent and you never know who will strike or when. Still, it’s a very real threat.

Y'know she's dead right here, but for quite different reasons than she believes. Terrorism is like "rape culture". Confined to certain parts of the world, incredibly rare in the West and hyped far beyond the threat is actually poses to the average person in the west and certain sections of the media and politics fan the flames of fear for their own purposes. Yep, she nailed it there alright.

Journal writer quote wrote:

Slut shaming and victim blaming both contribute to the erosion of the personal liberties of a woman to dress and act in a certain way

*hidden translation* I should be free to do and say what I like without any consequences. Hate to break it to you, adults learned early on that in a society "personal liberty" is a two way street. As givyjoe points out, if it was a man who approached these (likely imaginary) gym goons with the same respect, he'd likely have come off even worse. That the hard facts show men are far more likely to be physically assaulted than women. Would such a scenario be "sexism"? If it ever happened of course.

Journal writer quote wrote:

This attitude is rife in Western culture, drip-fed from that hub of globalised pop culture, America.

As I noted before, the stunning lack of irony present with these professional victim "feminists" is truly breathtaking.

pumpkin4life · 14-02-2017 11:50AM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/male-aggression-is-out-of-control-3231703-Feb2017/

I really have to question the accusations in this piece- and where she's coming from in terms of her psychoanalysis-plus the allegation of violence at the gym? IF it were true, name the gym, and make sure the gardai were told.
No use revealing it on twitter-or facebook-doesn't stop it happening again.

Seriously doubt her allegations, as well as the mention of rape on tv shows-like, that's fiction. (Also loses me when mentioning Amy Schumer-a woman who joked about her actually raping a guy, which happened).

Also, as the comments below note-the 'author' is often using her instagram to promote stuff like 'jeans that will make men wolf whistle at you'...dear sweet jeebus, the irony is strong, so strong...

I bet you dollar to donut that this story is completely fabricated.

If you want to be a good third wave feminist, you need your token sexual harassment story to get on the happy happy joy joy make me some money victim train.

Women who have been through traumatic sexual experiences, they don't talk about it with almost glee like this piece does.

mrsdewinter · 14-02-2017 12:22PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/male-aggression-is-out-of-control-3231703-Feb2017/

I really have to question the accusations in this piece- and where she's coming from in terms of her psychoanalysis-plus the allegation of violence at the gym? IF it were true, name the gym, and make sure the gardai were told.
No use revealing it on twitter-or facebook-doesn't stop it happening again.

Seriously doubt her allegations, as well as the mention of rape on tv shows-like, that's fiction. (Also loses me when mentioning Amy Schumer-a woman who joked about her actually raping a guy, which happened).

Also, as the comments below note-the 'author' is often using her instagram to promote stuff like 'jeans that will make men wolf whistle at you'...dear sweet jeebus, the irony is strong, so strong...

I find it strange that she goes from very distressing real-life incidents to popular culture and never moves beyond an admittedly chilling moment from Broadchurch to make her point. Is that research?

14-02-2017 01:12PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/male-aggression-is-out-of-control-3231703-Feb2017/

I really have to question the accusations in this piece- and where she's coming from in terms of her psychoanalysis-plus the allegation of violence at the gym? IF it were true, name the gym, and make sure the gardai were told.
No use revealing it on twitter-or facebook-doesn't stop it happening again.

Seriously doubt her allegations, as well as the mention of rape on tv shows-like, that's fiction. (Also loses me when mentioning Amy Schumer-a woman who joked about her actually raping a guy, which happened).

Also, as the comments below note-the 'author' is often using her instagram to promote stuff like 'jeans that will make men wolf whistle at you'...dear sweet jeebus, the irony is strong, so strong...

ive a feeling its either exaggerated or it didn't happen and she's trying to get in on the third wave feminist nonsense for profit....I saw her trying to suck up to LON on twitter asking her to read it.. why didn't she go to the cops and same with the gym worker instead of rushing to social media/journal.....

To be a third wave feminist, irony is a concept you must not understand.... just looking at her tweets/Instagram/social media, I lean towards it being exaggerated as the woman in gym has had the misfortune to meet a$$hole, describes him as “sexual terrorist”. Manages to get an article on the Journal out of her experience, hopes to milk it for all it’s worth.

py2006 · 14-02-2017 03:27PM

Sounds too good (eh bad) to be true. That incident would have caused quite a furore and the other patrons would have noticed the commotion. No doubt other female gym goers would have comforted her.

Sounds like the current trend of demented feminists given platforms in irish media. License to generalise, lie and vomit hatred against men.

red ears · 14-02-2017 04:20PM

py2006 wrote: »

Sounds too good (eh bad) to be true. That incident would have caused quite a furore and the other patrons would have noticed the commotion. No doubt other female gym goers would have comforted her.

Sounds like the current trend of demented feminists given platforms in irish media. License to generalise, lie and vomit hatred against men.

And people who know her and the owners of her local gym (if she even has one) will likely know of her and which gym she goes too.

orubiru · 14-02-2017 07:45PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/male-aggression-is-out-of-control-3231703-Feb2017/

You have to wonder what the target audience is for content like this. 63,869 views.

I feel like there is no credibility when you have a Feminist complaining about the danger caused by "Masculinity". Realistically, she has a strong ideological basis for telling an anecdote where "men" have done a bad thing.

I think anyone who has been to a gym will know that there is behavior that can range from the annoyance of people leaving towels and empty bottles all over the place to irritating loud grunting when lifting weights to outright fighting over equipment.

I think, for the most part, that we can all accept the basic principles that bad things happen and that some people are a-holes. So an anecdote doesn't tell us anything we don't already know.

The more relevant question is just how many people are behaving this way?

We quickly move on from that though and the basic premise is that childhood remarks and insults lead to aggressive behavior at the gym and this then ultimately leads to rape.

"It eventually resulted in the gang rape of one of my friends. While she attempted suicide many times, these boys went on to become men with careers and families, cementing their place in a society where the sole responsibility of preventing rape is placed on the woman."

Society is in a lose-lose situation here.

On one hand we can't ask that women take responsibility for preventing rape. On the other hand we can't reach into the minds of rapists to stop them from raping.

Society is to blame though. Western Culture is to blame. There's this thing in that movie or that show or this joke or that thing the guy on the radio said. TV causes rape. Songs cause rape. Jokes cause rape.

This is how we are expected to understand the crime. This is how we are expected to stop the crime.

These bad people over here, right, the angry guy at the gym, the boys who participated in a gang rape, Brock Turner, Roman Polanski, the bad villain from TV? If we just took away their TV and their Internet then these things would never happen.

We have left reality behind here. We're not looking at these crimes and the motives behind them. We are looking at a crime that has been committed for MILLENNIA and asking "do you think jokes on Twitter are causing this".

Here's the weird thing. People like this want to be pedantic about the definitions of "sexism" or "rape culture" or even "feminism". However, when it comes to proving the causal relationship between Pop Culture and "Rape Culture" they can't even be bothered trying. It just is OK. Just accept it. You aren't one of those evil MRAs are you? Rape Apologist!

You want to talk about Rape Culture? Show me a period in human history where society and culture have either not fully developed or have broken down and I will show you a period where some of the most horrific crimes imaginable are frequent and widespread. If anything the existence of society and culture reigns in some of humanities worst instincts. It certainly doesn't cause them and it certainly doesn't endorse them.

"Ladies, the gym is overrun by sexual terrorists."
"Which gym? Did you call the guards?"
"I'm not saying. It's not my responsibility to call the guards it's..."

I wonder if there will be a tipping point where this whole "We Live In A Rape Culture" movement is either fully embraced by society and turns into mass hysteria or is abandoned and just runs out of steam.

RabbleRouser2k · 15-02-2017 11:27AM

Agree wholeheartedly with so many people's views-and I imagine the article writer I posted was none too happy with the massive questions lobbed at her article since writing it-since she's now made her twitter profile protected.
Ah yes, when you want a discussion on a topic, but then don't want to actually discuss anything...no, no. Cos the Journal don't believe your crud, why should anyone else?

As one commenter told her, via twitter-'report the crime to the police, not on twitter' regarding the gym incident-she blocked him.

And then there's LoN saying that if the boyfriend didn't get his girl something good she can show on insta, then it's not worth it-then goes on to discuss how heteronormative valentines is.

15-02-2017 12:01PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Agree wholeheartedly with so many people's views-and I imagine the article writer I posted was none too happy with the massive questions lobbed at her article since writing it-since she's now made her twitter profile protected.
Ah yes, when you want a discussion on a topic, but then don't want to actually discuss anything...no, no. Cos the Journal don't believe your crud, why should anyone else?

As one commenter told her, via twitter-'report the crime to the police, not on twitter' regarding the gym incident-she blocked him.

And then there's LoN saying that if the boyfriend didn't get his girl something good she can show on insta, then it's not worth it-then goes on to discuss how heteronormative valentines is.

I really believe LoN doesn't know why she's single

py2006 · 15-02-2017 12:13PM

Sasha Wide Squash wrote: »

I really believe LoN doesn't know why she's single

Single for a while too

Wibbs · 15-02-2017 12:30PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

As one commenter told her, via twitter-'report the crime to the police, not on twitter' regarding the gym incident-she blocked him.

Social media has weaponised attention seeking and to innate attention seekers it's like catnip. This goes double for professional attention seekers and/or victims. They will look for something to garner more attention toward themselves, including being "interesting" with the truth. Since the rise of the notion that being a victim is somehow noble of itself, if one can throw that angle in all the better. Only certain "victims" are welcome of course. Younger white middle class women a given.

In this particular case we can hold our own opinions, but consider the difference in attention between reporting an incident to the police(and actually making a difference, even maybe saving someone else), or scattering it to the social media wind and waiting for the acknowledgements*. Which option would the overly self involved attention seeker take?

*not just "likes" and "you go girl!" stuff either. To paraphrase PT Barnum; 'There's no such thing as bad publicity attention. So long as it is at arms and computers screen length. The type get off just as much, if not more on negative reaction. It consolidates their paranoid and daft worldview and need for attention.

timmy880 · 15-02-2017 12:51PM

For all of Louise O'Neill's annoyances, she does respond when questioned and even though at times that response is OTT, she stands by her views.

Somebody like this Mary Cate Smith is a far more dangerous for the feminist movement if they genuinely want it to progress. She is blocking people on Twitter who ask why she didn't report a clear incident of sexual harassment to the guards? But instead broadcasts the whole story on a website with the hash tags: #COLUMN #MALE AGGRESSION #MASCULINITY #OPINION #READ ME

Then makes her Twitter account private in an obvious attempt to avoid any more questions on the matter. Even the most basic of questions such as "what gym was this?" which surely is an important issue as she needs to warn other females of the sexual terrorists that lurk in those parts.

By reacting this way it makes what might have been a true story and a horrible encounter a little bit questionable to say the least.

Another issue is her vague baseless statements "This is a culture that identifies with tortured artists like Roman Polanski (who raped and drugged a thirteen year old girl)"...... I don't know where she gets this from? I've never heard Roman Polanski referenced in a male dominated environment as a representation of a sexually aggressive hero or any other kind of symbol.

While Louise O'Neill got the ball rolling, people like this aren't really doing the movement any favours. Their aim doesn't seem to remove any sort of rape culture in Ireland that they believe to exist. They're just rushing to the nearest website to tell stories about "Proof that rape culture exists".... And then block out or shout above anyone asking legitimate follow up questions to their claims.

RabbleRouser2k · 15-02-2017 12:52PM

Had an interesting talk, recently, with someone who works as a lecturer in an art school (school shall remain nameless, his area of expertise is history, or art history-I think). Anyway, he's only been working in this art school for a good year or two (previous experience in another college) and one of his colleagues spoke to him about how, incredulously, a number of students coming into the fashion degree program don't know how to sew. Something that was taught in Home Economics, in many schools, they cannot do. So, the lecturers themselves have to teach students how to do something that even national school kids, years ago, could do. It's a module, now, I believe.

The reason for this lack of sewing expertise? The lecturer blames it on feminism. Much of the students they get in fashion design are girls and young women (with the exception of males, too), and they have so embraced the 'feminist' agenda, that sewing and cooking is something they cannot do-it's 'archaic', oppressive in their eyes.
It's completely ridiculous, tbh. I've never accidentally killed anyone, but I have the distinct ability to cook. Probably could sew a button or two if I had to. The sad thing is, sewing and cooking are survival skills, tbh. Embracing such a harsh view of them shows an inherent devolution.

Obviously, with colleges and resources being kind of crap, the lecturer was none too pleased at having to teach a subject taught in secondary schools, a mere few years ago. But in order to hold onto the limited resources they have, they have to teach it.

Just saw that and reminded myself of the difference in attitudes- LoN's mom is able to cook and do all sorts of adult stuff (the mentioning of her mom making her dad a cake for Valentine's day by LoN, I found a really sweet thing to do-then I thought 'how many people can actually bake or cook for their sweethearts?' (male or female). And then I realised...Lon probably cannot. Cos patriarchy).
Hence why no dude will stick around.
(Also her tweeting 'my birthday is 12 days after valentines day, so when I had boyfriends I would dump em in march so I got mah presents...') Yeah...cannot see why she's single...

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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