Are we really back to this sh*t again?

captbarnacles · 12-02-2017 7:25pm

It will crash because the salaries are not there to support paying 2k a month for a mortgage.

Yourself isit · 12-02-2017 7:35pm

captbarnacles wrote: »

It will crash because the salaries are not there to support paying 2k a month for a mortgage.

A 500k mortgage is probably higher. Depending on the term.

gifted · 12-02-2017 7:39pm

captbarnacles wrote: »

It will crash because the salaries are not there to support paying 2k a month for a mortgage.

Try paying 2300 a month for a creche on top of a mortgage....

Ulysses Gaze · 12-02-2017 7:41pm

Smoked Tuna wrote: »

Food shelter and water, the bare necessities of life.

People will fight for these neccesities

You can rent shelter though.

Hector Bellend · 12-02-2017 7:41pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Some might say, it's good for the economy!

Some might say we will find a brighter day

Hector Bellend · 12-02-2017 7:42pm

Anyone surprised?

Nika Bolokov · 12-02-2017 7:42pm

These houses didnt sell out like one poster said.

The same thing happened in Swords a few months ago where people were lining up in their pyjamas in a panic, same thing, a few people with nothing better to do were featured in a certain newspaper which earns a large amount of money from property advertising to hype things up. Some of those houses are still for sale.

Again in a development in Lucan some people were queuing over the weekend. Part of the Adamstown development where thousands of houses are due to come on stream.

We have strict mortgage rules now and the actions of a few over excited people shouldn't be used to characterise a whole market.

Hector Bellend · 12-02-2017 7:43pm

CaptainR wrote: »

How can people pay 650,000 for a house? If you were to pay back 500 a week that's 26 years, and that's before you include interest.

How much do these people earn?!

The banks didn't care the first time

Nika Bolokov · 12-02-2017 7:44pm

maryishere wrote: »

You can buy fine houses in half the country for 100,000 to 200,000, and fine executive detached houses for 300,000.

Its a very divided country. The government promising decentralisation ( remember that) and "gateway cities" ( remember those) and then going back on those promises did not help.

Thats grand but nobody wants to live out in the bog, even if it is for an 'executive' detached house which I assume means one of those big eyesores with plaster Roman columns

...And Justice · 12-02-2017 7:46pm

Hector Bellend wrote: »

The banks didn't care the first time

The difference now is only people who earn a good salary can buy a house of this price, not like before when anyone could get a mortgage and lie about their earnings.

suicide_circus · 12-02-2017 7:49pm

maryishere wrote: »

You can buy fine houses in half the country for 100,000 to 200,000, and fine executive detached houses for 300,000.

Its a very divided country. The government promising decentralisation ( remember that) and "gateway cities" ( remember those) and then going back on those promises did not help.

I'm afraid to ask but what is an executive detached house?

pablo128 · 12-02-2017 7:51pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm afraid to ask but what is an executive detached house?

I think they are also known as McMansions.:pac:

maryishere · 12-02-2017 7:54pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm afraid to ask but what is an executive detached house?

Nika Bolokov was half right a few post ago when the following was written:

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

Thats grand but nobody wants to live out in the bog, even if it is for an 'executive' detached house which I assume means one of those big eyesores with plaster Roman columns

It is one of those big eyesores, double the size of a Dublin house, in a field, with a big conservatory out the side or back.
Yours for 300,000 in half the country.

Gavlor · 12-02-2017 7:54pm

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

These houses didnt sell out like one poster said.

The same thing happened in Swords a few months ago where people were lining up in their pyjamas in a panic, same thing, a few people with nothing better to do were featured in a certain newspaper which earns a large amount of money from property advertising to hype things up. Some of those houses are still for sale.

Again in a development in Lucan some people were queuing over the weekend. Part of the Adamstown development where thousands of houses are due to come on stream.

We have strict mortgage rules now and the actions of a few over excited people shouldn't be used to characterise a whole market.

Stop talking sense, it doesn't fit the boards socialist agenda.

Ayuntamiento · 12-02-2017 7:54pm

Hector Bellend wrote: »

The banks didn't care the first time

The banks are definitely doing their due diligence this time around. The rules are strict and applied to everybody.
The price inflation seems to follow the fact that there really is a lot more money around compared to a few years ago. I see it in my own group of friends. We graduated college in the midst of the crash. It was totally normal to be on the dole or in a minimum wage job.
They're all in great jobs now and most are on the verge of buying a property.

If anything, it's a shame the CB caved in over the 20% deposit rule.

suicide_circus · 12-02-2017 7:57pm

maryishere wrote: »

Nika Bolokov was half right a few post ago when the following was written:

It is one of those big eyesores, double the size of a Dublin house, in a field, with a big conservatory out the side or back.
Yours for 300,000 in half the country.

In keeping with the Classical theme I'd have to gouge out my own eyes to live in one of those monstrosities.

Wanderer2010 · 12-02-2017 7:58pm

The hardest thing to stomach about this so called return to Celtic Tiger times is the sickeningly hypocritical adverts from the Banks about first time buyers and encouraging people to eat boring ham sandwiches or give up every Saturday to view houses in a kind of "We are behind you" buddy type vibe as if to say if you cut back and do exactly what Mr Friendly Bank Manager says, then one day we will lump you with a huge mortgage and you should be grateful to us.

Never mind that its the greedy, corrupt and totally regulation-free banks that caused the crash and not one of them were sacked or pulled up for it, all of them sitting pretty in their plush offices, controlling the economy completely free from our spineless Government interference. Never mind the suicides they caused by aggressive phone calls, letters and turfing whole families out on the street. Never mind them handing over peoples houses to vulture funds who bully and prey on the vulnerable. Bankers- absolute CNUTS the lot of them.

K.Flyer · 12-02-2017 8:03pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

May the lord have mercy on their souls

Forgive them Lord, as they know not what they do.

- Jesus (33 a.d. approx)

CaptainR · 12-02-2017 8:05pm

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

Thats grand but nobody wants to live out in the bog, even if it is for an 'executive' detached house which I assume means one of those big eyesores with plaster Roman columns

There's more than just living in the city or living "out in the bog." Our house is a detached cottage with a big garden and all that but I can walk to a medium sized town in 15 mins or two minutes in the car.

It doesn't have those columns or any of that, it was built in the 50's. I agree though that some of the houses around the country are gaudy to say the least.

Pac1Man · 12-02-2017 8:07pm

gifted wrote: »

Try paying 2300 a month for a creche on top of a mortgage....

Wow really? How many kids is that for?

12-02-2017 8:08pm

1991 pmaC epacS wrote: »

Everyone is talking about the next economic crash like it's inevitable, without mentioning the circumstances which will trigger such a crash. For example the EU/US rising national debt levels, low interest rates, and so on.. I don't buy into this line of thinking "Property prices are rising now at a similar % as 2000-2006, then the 2008 financial crisis hit, therefore there will definitely be a similar financial crisis shortly".. what is the logic? Asking sincerely as I am genuinely interested.

Well for starters, we have an economic model that requires infinite growth to function correctly, as that is impossible, it regularly "blows the safety valve" and that always results in a recession or in a severe overheating situation, a depression.

House prices rise until there are no buyers left who can afford them, at this point houses stop selling and prices drop>
Potential buyers see falling prices decide to wait to see how low they'll go, no one is buying and the sellers are getting desperate to sell as the mortgage is crippling them drop the price more to get rid! = house price collapse.

I've seen it happen at lease three times, so collapse (in my lifetime) number 4 is inevitable and will be in the not too distant future.

Ayuntamiento · 12-02-2017 8:21pm

A crash only really affects you if you bought somewhere unsuitable in the first place and need to move on subsequently. Buy the right type of property the first time round and you can sit through all the booms and crashes without it affecting you.

If you lose your job because of a crash you're screwed no matter what, but you'd be on the street much sooner if you're renting vs having a mortgage.

gifted · 12-02-2017 8:29pm

Pac1Man wrote: »

Wow really? How many kids is that for?

3 kids full time....Monday to Friday...

Herself ended up taking parental leave in the end...worked out we saved money that way..

Could have packed up my job and done a fas course and then the creche would have been free but that's a whole different topic lol lol

Ulysses Gaze · 12-02-2017 8:40pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

The hardest thing to stomach about this so called return to Celtic Tiger times is the sickeningly hypocritical adverts from the Banks about first time buyers and encouraging people to eat boring ham sandwiches or give up every Saturday to view houses in a kind of "We are behind you" buddy type vibe as if to say if you cut back and do exactly what Mr Friendly Bank Manager says, then one day we will lump you with a huge mortgage and you should be grateful to us.

Never mind that its the greedy, corrupt and totally regulation-free banks that caused the crash and not one of them were sacked or pulled up for it, all of them sitting pretty in their plush offices, controlling the economy completely free from our spineless Government interference. Never mind the suicides they caused by aggressive phone calls, letters and turfing whole families out on the street. Never mind them handing over peoples houses to vulture funds who bully and prey on the vulnerable. Bankers- absolute CNUTS the lot of them.

It's like those ridiculous AIB ads - "Backing Brave".

Go f"ck yourselves you overcharging c!nts.

B.A._Baracus · 12-02-2017 8:45pm

I don't get this. You're camping out for days to view the place. Do they even view them? Or just run in (when it opens) and scream we'll take it!!

Your Face · 12-02-2017 8:59pm

F--kin Donald Trump.

Cameo · 12-02-2017 9:02pm

Ayuntamiento wrote: »

The banks are definitely doing their due diligence this time around. The rules are strict and applied to everybody.
The price inflation seems to follow the fact that there really is a lot more money around compared to a few years ago. I see it in my own group of friends. We graduated college in the midst of the crash. It was totally normal to be on the dole or in a minimum wage job.
They're all in great jobs now and most are on the verge of buying a property.

Yip. The banks will be strict though - people earning far beyond what approved first time buyers earned ten years ago are finding mortgage approval tough. And savings and other legit incomes aren't even enough.

It's good in one way for it to be so strict compared to the fiasco of last time around, but in another it's kinda crap that, say, a couple have to pay a thousand a month for a flat when they could be paying 800 a month for a house.

Ayuntamiento · 12-02-2017 9:12pm

Cameo wrote: »

Yip. The banks will be strict though - people earning far beyond what approved first time buyers earned ten years ago are finding mortgage approval tough. And savings and other legit incomes aren't even enough.

It's good in one way for it to be so strict compared to the fiasco of last time around, but in another it's kinda crap that, say, a couple have to pay a thousand a month for a flat when they could be paying 800 a month for a house.

I'd agree to a certain extent. We're just moving into our own house after years of renting. The mortgage is much less than rent so I thought we'd be in a great position financially. Little did I realise the million other bills that come with house ownership which we never had to factor into our rent.
By the time I pay out for several types of required insurances, management fees, property tax, bins (never mind furniture and inevitable repairs), I'll be paying above my current rent. Then if interest rates go up that will be another headache.

Berserker · 12-02-2017 9:38pm

Cameo wrote: »

Yip. The banks will be strict though - people earning far beyond what approved first time buyers earned ten years ago are finding mortgage approval tough. And savings and other legit incomes aren't even enough.

An awful lot of the buyers are not first time buyers though. Delighted to know that I'll never have to deal with this housing nonsense but I am interested to see how it all ends. There has to be a breaking point somewhere. This cycle of boom and stagnation can't go on forever.

NIMAN · 12-02-2017 9:44pm

As said, I can understand sleeping out in your car for 2 nights if you were getting a bargain, but to do it so you can have the pleasure of handing over 500k+ and put yourself in a life of debt, naw. Crazy.

Berserker · 12-02-2017 9:45pm

NIMAN wrote: »

As said, I can understand sleeping out in your car for 2 nights if you were getting a bargain, but to do it so you can have the pleasure of handing over 500k+ and put yourself in a life of debt, naw. Crazy.

Life of debt!! They are a superb investment and they'll be worth €750K in a few years.

whodafunk · 12-02-2017 9:49pm

Yes - ridiculous. The media seem to love glorifying this sort of nonsense.

There is a real problem in Dublin - homelessness and people out on the streets and inderlying problems yet they never really make the headlines.

I really hope all this c^*p comes to a crashing end soon.

Ayuntamiento · 12-02-2017 9:54pm

The bit that I find strange is how ordinary looking these houses are for 500k+. You could get a much larger house in a nicer/more central area if you bought second hand. I've never found new houses that attractive. They're so expensive and then you move in and have to pay for everything from the floors to the blinds on the windows.

Samuel T. Cogley · 12-02-2017 9:57pm

How the funk did we get here again with the 3.5x cap on LTI?

Exactly how many couples earn 200K a year a year between them and why in the name of good Christ would they want to live out in Portmarnock? They didn't even make it a proper 'knock' or 'rock'.

12-02-2017 10:00pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

How the funk did we get here again with the 3.5x cap on LTI?

Exactly how many couples earn 200K a year a year between them and why in the name of good Christ would they want to live out in Portmarnock? They didn't even make it a proper 'knock' or 'rock'.

They must have big deposits

neonsofa · 12-02-2017 10:03pm

bluewolf wrote: »

They must have big deposits

Yep, the more time people spent unable to buy, the more time they have had to save up their deposit.

_Brian · 12-02-2017 10:10pm

We need to push this on lads, I've a property to dump and looking to do well.

Sleeper12 · 12-02-2017 10:12pm

frozenfrozen wrote:

how can I make money out of the next crash? I want yacht money

You'll have to go find a country that's going to have a crash first. It won't be happening here till the housing shortage is sorted. So we're a while away from having a crash here. If ever.

Ginger83 · 12-02-2017 10:13pm

Elessar wrote: »

Couples camp in cars for two nights to buy homes.

People are back queuing for days to buy a house. Like really? I'm normally a fairly laid back kind of guy but this story really bothers me for some reason. For a new development in Portmarnock:

Queuing for days for the privilege of handing over between four hundred and fifty thousand and six hundred and sixty five thousand euro for a house. I don't have anything against the people in question (best of luck to them) but for this to become normal again when people are house hunting is flabbergasting. Is housing supply really that bad? I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if the houses were reasonably priced, but at circa. €500k for people to be practically clambering over each other to get one wreaks of something very wrong. What next? Fights in line over who gets the last 4 bed?

I don't know what bothers me more: that new development houses are so rare that people have to camp for days just to view one, or that they are so insanely expensive that people are forced to pay half a million euro for one, and yet still have to queue.

Crazy fools.

The Rape of Lucretia · 12-02-2017 10:22pm

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

The Irish have Goldfish memories, kinda like the same way we Voted in Fianna Gael because we were discusted with Fianna Fail, then voted in Fianna Fail because we were discusted with Fianna Gael.

Voting for both is fine. They are they same thing. And are who the Irish should vote for given that they reflect the vast majority of the electorate very well. They problem is that the Irish are very poor at running their country, have impossible expectations, and do enjoy that merry go round of political parties as a childish 'punishing' of their politians - without realising that the politicians are simply a reflection of themselves.
They Irish are a joke. And get what they deserve with this sort of nonsense. Until they accept responsibility for what they do and allow their politicians to do the right thing, this type of property madness and trauma will keep repeating itself. They are an embarrassment.

LuckyLloyd · 12-02-2017 10:23pm

Smoked Tuna wrote: »

Food shelter and water, the bare necessities of life.

People will fight for these neccesities

400 - 600k for a house in Portmarnock is nowhere near a bare necessity of life.

TheRiverman · 12-02-2017 10:25pm

David McWilliams was being slated here on Boards.ie last night when he was on the Ray D'arcy show.He did make a great point when he said that in Ireland we appear to be forgetting that the horrendous economic crash ever happened and people have an attitude that "it never happened to me and never will"and that is why we are heading back to the same craziness again.
I posted last night that back in 2003 McWilliams was laughed at when he predicted the crash.Are people going to laugh at and ignore him again?

StudentDad · 12-02-2017 10:25pm

When did access to a decent home become such a privilege? The options in this country are beginning to look alot like Victorian times. By some strange miracle of economics, we have fewer houses to buy after an economic crash that has hammered so many families around the country. If anything you'd think the price of a house would go down, not up. We have Vulture funds buying up debt and 'cashing in' on peoples misery. If they can do this and still make a profit just how badly overpriced were these mortgages in the first place? Where are the houses built by the State to offset the shortcomings in the housing market?

SD

NIMAN · 12-02-2017 10:28pm

One thing for sure, if I was one of these idiots sleeping in my car for 2 nights, I wouldn't be courting publicity.

Then again, the current generation love their 15mins of fame, no matter how daft they look.

Samuel T. Cogley · 12-02-2017 10:29pm

TBH they may have just confused them with doggers at Dollymount.

The Rape of Lucretia · 12-02-2017 10:30pm

StudentDad wrote: »

When did access to a decent home become such a privilege?

The problem is when did it not become a privilege. Or at least, the Irish think that it is not a privilege, and that 2500sq ft of dormer with twin garage on an acre should be for everyone.
The lack of realism, and expectations of far too many, who cannot afford one, that the should be able to afford a house, is just bananas in this country.

Cameo · 12-02-2017 10:30pm

I genuinely don't remember McWilliams being laughed at when he predicted the crash - not saying it didn't happen, I just can't remember it.

There were plenty who didn't want to admit it couldn't last (likely knowing deep down that it couldn't) but plenty who knew it couldn't last and didn't behave stupidly.

I don't get this smug, self flagellating stuff like "we'll never learn" and "the Irish are a joke" and "the Irish have short memories" - from Irish people. Speak for yourselves there buddies.

Wanderer78 · 12-02-2017 10:30pm

TheRiverman wrote: »

David McWilliams was being slated here on Boards.ie last night when he was on the Ray D'arcy show.He did make a great point when he said that in Ireland we appear to be forgetting that the horrendous economic crash ever happened and people have an attitude that "it never happened to me and never will"and that is why we are heading back to the same craziness again.
I posted last night that back in 2003 McWilliams was laughed at when he predicted the crash.Are people going to laugh at and ignore him again?

yes they are, sit back and watch!

sadly i think its gonna take a few more serious crashes before we truly start changing things. very frustrating

Wanderer78 · 12-02-2017 10:32pm

Cameo wrote: »

I genuinely don't remember McWilliams being laughed at when he predicted the crash - not saying it didn't happen, I just can't remember it.

There were plenty who didn't want to admit it couldn't last (likely knowing deep down that it couldn't) but plenty who knew it couldn't last and didn't behave stupidly.

I don't get this smug, self flagellating stuff like "we'll never learn" and "the Irish are a joke" and "the Irish have short memories" - from Irish people. Speak for yourselves there buddies.

hmmmm maybe the 'suicide' speech was directed at people like him?;)

Yourself isit · 12-02-2017 10:32pm

StudentDad wrote: »

When did access to a decent home become such a privilege? The options in this country are beginning to look alot like Victorian times. By some strange miracle of economics, we have fewer houses to buy after an economic crash that has hammered so many families around the country. If anything you'd think the price of a house would go down, not up. We have Vulture funds buying up debt and 'cashing in' on peoples misery. If they can do this and still make a profit just how badly overpriced were these mortgages in the first place? Where are the houses built by the State to offset the shortcomings in the housing market?

SD

The government made a decision to push house prices up. Everything that have done - including first time buyer grants are designed to do exactly that.

Are we really back to this sh*t again?

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