Scotland vs Ireland, 4th Feb 2017, Murrayfield, 2:25, RTÉ 2

cack_jonnolly · 05-02-2017 06:53PM

In the last 12 games Heaslip has started he has given away the grand total of 7 penalties out of a total of 96 conceded. Thats 'lots' alright.

Anyway back to the game and a question. When scotland scored off the lineout they appeared to have 9 guys in the lineout. If they called 9 why would Ireland not have numbered up against them?

mansize · 05-02-2017 06:53PM

nagdefy wrote: »

What do ye feel about the bus being late etc. Is it a plausible excuse for a poor start?

Personally i don't think so.

At least we're very much in the championship and no team got a 4 try bonus point. Scotland were closest,only for Rob Kearney's tackle.

Wales were closer tbf

CMOTDibbler · 05-02-2017 07:02PM

So you started here.

tayto lover wrote: »

Heaslip is a great player but Jaysus he gives away an awful amount of stupid penalties. Yesterday was typical of him.

Which was demonstrably false, and then followed up with this:

tayto lover wrote: »

Two people watching the game with me yesterday (both knowledgeable rugby men) and both said that they bet he'd give away the penalty for the Scots to win seconds before he did. They were right.

Which was also demonstrably false. But you insisted

tayto lover wrote: »

He gives away a lot of penalties. That's true.

And then partially conceded

tayto lover wrote: »

He gave away 2 out of 7. That's high.

And then just outright ran away from your original statement.

tayto lover wrote: »

Who gave away more? :rolleyes:

tayto lover · 05-02-2017 07:08PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

So you started here.

Which was demonstrably false, and then followed up with this:

Which was also demonstrably false. But you insisted

And then partially conceded

And then just outright ran away from your original statement.

They all made sense to me. I was of the opinion that he gives away more penalties than any other player. If i'm proven wrong i'll hold my hands up.

CMOTDibbler · 05-02-2017 07:08PM

cack_jonnolly wrote: »

In the last 12 games Heaslip has started he has given away the grand total of 7 penalties out of a total of 96 conceded. Thats 'lots' alright.

Facts are so welcome. Thanks.

cack_jonnolly wrote: »

Anyway back to the game and a question. When scotland scored off the lineout they appeared to have 9 guys in the lineout. If they called 9 why would Ireland not have numbered up against them?

Complete head scratcher. Of the three tries we conceded, this was by far the worst imo. The previous two were all round defensive lapses and indicative of collective brain fart and a slow start/people not being at the pitch of the match.

But that one was just unforgiveable. Especially after having got our first try only minutes before. It completely sucked the wind out of our sails and rather than building on the confidence of that try, we were just trying to escape to the dressing room.

nc6000 · 05-02-2017 07:09PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Two people watching the game with me yesterday (both knowledgeable rugby men) and both said that they bet he'd give away the penalty for the Scots to win seconds before he did. They were right.

This is complete and utter absolute nonsense.

There is no way someone (no matter how "knowledgeable" they are) can tell who will give away a penalty next.

Why people continue to slate Heaslip is beyond me.

nagdefy · 05-02-2017 07:10PM

mansize wrote: »

Wales were closer tbf

Well yes, that's true.

CMOTDibbler · 05-02-2017 07:11PM

tayto lover wrote: »

They all made sense to me. I was of the opinion that he gives away more penalties than any other player. If i'm proven wrong i'll hold my hands up.

Fair enough. Anyone can make a mistake. For a back row forward, Heaslip is probably one of the most disciplined out there. Those guys have to skirt the line all the time and try not to get pinged at the same time. Inevitably they do, but very few would have an average of less than one per test match.

tayto lover · 05-02-2017 07:15PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Fair enough. Anyone can make a mistake. For a back row forward, Heaslip is probably one of the most disciplined out there. Those guys have to skirt the line all the time and try not to get pinged at the same time. Inevitably they do, but very few would have an average of less than one per test match.

Where would we find the statistics? I've been searching but no luck.

CMOTDibbler · 05-02-2017 07:19PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Where would we find the statistics? I've been searching but no luck.

These are the stats for yesterday's match.

And here's where you can pick the date of a match and get access to the stats for it.

There should be stats on the rbs6nations site as well.

Knock yourself out

Wang Kerr · 05-02-2017 07:19PM

We'll hear "credit in the bank" and a few likeways phrases over the next few days, and for the most part it is true, but a performance like yesterday's won't be allowed by JS again.
There has to be a huge improvement from just about every player, especially on that first 40 min performance otherwise, certain mainstays in the tram may find themselves being relegated to the bench or out of the match day 23 altogether

The Rape of Lucretia · 05-02-2017 07:29PM

Wang Kerr wrote: »

We'll hear "credit in the bank" and a few likeways phrases over the next few days, and for the most part it is true, but a performance like yesterday's won't be allowed by JS again.
There has to be a huge improvement from just about every player, especially on that first 40 min performance otherwise, certain mainstays in the tram may find themselves being relegated to the bench or out of the match day 23 altogether

The players were fine. Joe is the man with the (extensive) credit in the bank who bears the responsibility for yesterday. They tried to power their way through the Scottish forwards and never succeeded either dominating them, or in tying them in to create defensive weaknesses or mismatches for the backs. Tactics did not change significantly either, which was un-Joe like. They were so convinced of their method that they kept to it - and nearly succeeded. But the deficit from the first 30 minutes, particularly the oddment 3rd try after Ireland had got theirs was very slack. But they were a long way from the dominance they had against them there two years ago. Which i put down mainly to Scottish improvement. I guess Joe would have played it differently in hindsight. But that the players, while they will regret individual incidents, as always, will fundamentally feel they played a good game and did what was asked of them.

CMOTDibbler · 05-02-2017 07:35PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

But that the players, while they will regret individual incidents, as always, will fundamentally feel they played a good game and did what was asked of them.

I think you might want to temper that last phrase significantly. I doubt they were asked to stop counting once they got to seven in the lineout. :rolleyes:

Former Former · 05-02-2017 07:37PM

nc6000 wrote: »

Why people continue to slate Heaslip is beyond me.

At some point in the last ten years, a sizable minority decided that Heaslip's personality and character didn't match their perception of what a rugby player should be, what he should say. That's fans and media.

It's sad because he should be talked about in the same bracket as O'Driscoll and O'Connell for consistent and prolonged excellence. But some people just don't want to accept that. It's sad because these are people who probably consider themselves rugby fans and they're robbing themselves of the appreciation of a true great, but f**k them, it's their loss.

CMOTDibbler · 05-02-2017 07:41PM

Former Former wrote: »

At some point in the last ten years, a sizable minority decided that Heaslip's personality and character didn't match their perception of what a rugby player should be, what he should say. That's fans and media.

It's sad because he should be talked about in the same bracket as O'Driscoll and O'Connell for consistent and prolonged excellence. But some people just don't want to accept that.

The funny thing is that when he was out after being assaulted by Pascal Pape, he was really missed; even by his harshest critics. He's one of those players you only miss when he's gone, unlike say, Sean O'Brien who you only miss when he's back.

nagdefy · 05-02-2017 07:52PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

The funny thing is that when he was out after being assaulted by Pascal Pape, he was really missed; even by his harshest critics. He's one of those players you only miss when he's gone, unlike say, Sean O'Brien who you only miss when he's back.

His longevity and durability are exceptional. As i've said here before, bar the Pape incident, i can't remember when he was missing. A great servant of Irish rugby.

O'Brien has had long lay offs, O'Driscoll missed 2012 6 Nations and important games like France 2007 (not blaming him just pointing out). O'Connell had his injury problems but Jamie is always there. When you combine that with playing consistency that's any manager's dream.

mansize · 05-02-2017 07:53PM

tayto lover wrote: »

They all made sense to me. I was of the opinion that he gives away more penalties than any other player. If i'm proven wrong i'll hold my hands up.

What was this opinion based on???

First Up · 05-02-2017 07:56PM

Totally unfair to dump on either of them. Heaslip gave all yesterday and always does. Fine athlete and serious competitor. O'Brien put in a good shift for someone back from injury; just tragic he didn't make the offload to Murray after his break.

Both great players and we are lucky to have them. Just think they weren't deployed properly.

v6e5qzawyrc3jn · 05-02-2017 08:00PM

This post has been deleted.

05-02-2017 08:04PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

These are the stats for yesterday's match.

And here's where you can pick the date of a match and get access to the stats for it.

There should be stats on the rbs6nations site as well.

Knock yourself out

I thought our lineout stats were gonna be way worse

mansize · 05-02-2017 08:04PM

I often wonder if Heaslip wasn't such a ride would I dislike him as much as others 😂😂😂

First Up · 05-02-2017 08:05PM

Deleted User wrote:

I thought our lineout stats were gonna be way worse

Ita not just the stats. Its when and where.

mansize · 05-02-2017 08:05PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought our lineout stats were gonna be way worse

Yes, at the game they seemed way worse

Mahatma Geansai · 05-02-2017 08:17PM

There's an incredible amount of preciousness about Heaslip. No matter how deserved any criticism may be, there is a group that will take the opinion that the poster has an irrational hatred of him.

mfceiling · 05-02-2017 08:17PM

I laugh at the "pick on form" nonsense. Have a bad game...you're gone. New player in doesn't go that well...bye now.

Eventually we'll run out of players as every player can't play brilliantly every game. Also bodes well for the bit of continuity and consistency that every good team thrives on.

mfceiling · 05-02-2017 08:23PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Two people watching the game with me yesterday (both knowledgeable rugby men) and both said that they bet he'd give away the penalty for the Scots to win seconds before he did. They were right.

Any chance you could ask these 2 "psychic maestros" for the results of next week's games and who will score and when...would love to clean Paddy Power right out.

Never heard such nonsense in all my life...

tayto lover · 05-02-2017 08:27PM

mfceiling wrote: »

Any chance you could ask these 2 "psychic maestros" for the results of next week's games and who will score and when...would love to clean Paddy Power right out.

Never heard such nonsense in all my life...

Yes you have surely. Plenty of it about.:rolleyes:

CMOTDibbler · 05-02-2017 08:28PM

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

There's an incredible amount of preciousness about Heaslip. No matter how deserved any criticism may be, there is a group that will take the opinion that the poster has an irrational hatred of him.

You could say the same about any player. There are some particular causes celebres that always elicit an instant reaction when criticised

mansize · 05-02-2017 08:34PM

mfceiling wrote: »

Any chance you could ask these 2 "psychic maestros" for the results of next week's games and who will score and when...would love to clean Paddy Power right out.

Never heard such nonsense in all my life...

You get used to it

irishguy1983 · 05-02-2017 08:36PM

Anyone understand the world rankings?! If Wales beat England do they go ahead of us?

Scotland vs Ireland, 4th Feb 2017, Murrayfield, 2:25, RTÉ 2

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