Scotland vs Ireland, 4th Feb 2017, Murrayfield, 2:25, RTÉ 2

Kanrith · 05-02-2017 12:38PM

Strange seeing a fair bit of the reaction is that Ireland underestimated Scotland, but it felt like all the build up to this match was how good Scotland were.

First Up · 05-02-2017 12:41PM

shootermacg wrote:

Scannell to 12, Henshaw to 13, CJ to 8, SoB to 6, VdF to 7. Byrne in for Earls. DR in for Henderson.

Not sure about Scannell but I'd go with the rest.

shuffol · 05-02-2017 12:47PM

I think a moment that had a huge impact on the match was when we were stuffing them in the scrum early on, think it was scoreless and we'd a penalty in their corner where we opted for the lineout and lost possession. A scrum then would very likely have led to a penalty try and possibly a yellow card.

CMOTDibbler · 05-02-2017 12:49PM

phog wrote: »

We coughed up scores early but we were ahead with about 10 mins to go and gave Scotland two kickable penalties.

Our defence was too narrow for lots of the game, our breakdown work was poor, we lost ball forward in rucks either the player taking the ball in lost it or we lost with poor ball presentation/protection. Add to that our lineouts :mad:

It looked like a comedy of errors.

Yeah, if you're going to defend narrow, you have to push up and cut off the outside pass that is going to kill you every time. Or you have to drift real fast and watch for the inside ball. But it's the former we were doing in the Autumn. We killed off NZ with it. It was like we were shackled and couldn't bear to risk it.

kuang1 · 05-02-2017 01:04PM

Gutted over that I am.

That is NOT a good Scottish team. Couldn't give a shiiite what anyone says.
We lost to an inferior team yesterday.

I'm sure it's been said 100 times on here already, but it was October 18th 2015 all over again.
That horrendous, gut wrenching, nauseating feeling sweeping over me as I watched that 1st half yesterday was the exact same feeling I had in Cardiff watching Argentina tear us apart.
Only then it was a little easier to swallow due to how depleted we were at the time.

That excuse can't be trotted out this time around.
I can't see any excuse for that shambolic opening 40 minutes.
Some of ye know I'm not Earls' biggest fan, and he didn't impress me yesterday (his tackling style is just plain awful), but I can't point the finger squarely at him in fairness. Our entire backline was a letdown imo. Henderson really disappointed me despite the try.
Can't say that Poite ruined it for us either.

Arriving 15 minutes later than planned? I'm glad to hear no one has been claiming that as a partial explanation, although certainly wouldn't have helped. But not in a big enough way to ease the turmoil ongoing in my mind at the mo!

I take solace in knowing that Joe is gonna be beside himself with rage over the game. Tomorrow's gonna be a very, very difficult day at the office for all involved.

I'm finding it hard to wish Scotland well after that...and it's not like they were filthy or anything.
I think normal order will be restored in Paris next week. Might stop all this guff that they're spouting. (It's Gatlandesque isn't it?!)

I wish it was next friday...I'd be far enough removed from yesterday for it to hurt less.

Bah.

shootermacg · 05-02-2017 01:14PM

First Up wrote: »

Not sure about Scannell but I'd go with the rest.

Well he is part of the most formidable defense in european rugby and' I saw nothing positive from RR against Scotland.
I'm not saying he isn't a good player, I just haven't seen it yet. I know Scannell is a very good 12 and I also think Henshaw can make hay at 13.

Bazzo · 05-02-2017 01:18PM

Padkir wrote: »

I think Maitland was in there too...

2 backs standing in the line out between Best and Furlong/McGrath and no one notices. Very poor.

He was. I noticed the two of them in the middle of the lineout after I'd had 4 pints and sitting 20m away from the screen in a pub. The lads on the pitch missing it was criminal.

errlloyd · 05-02-2017 01:19PM

shootermacg wrote: »

Well he is part of the most formidable defense in european rugby and' I saw nothing positive from RR against Scotland.
I'm not saying he isn't a good player, I just haven't seen it yet. I know Scannell is a very good 12 and I also think Henshaw can make hay at 13.

Luckily players aren't judged on one game, and most of us can remember Ringrose getting an amazing individual try in his stellar performance against Australia.

Buer · 05-02-2017 01:23PM

Scannell doesn't have a sniff of getting in. Firstly, Luke Marshall was the extra man and is the same type of player as well as covering the same positions. So he's ahead in the pecking order.

Secondly, Scannell was not at the races at all on Friday so isn't exactly demanding selection by showing Schmidt what he's missing out on.

Rightwing · 05-02-2017 01:26PM

Buer wrote: »

Game was lost in the first 20 minutes. Whatever about went after that, you cannot visit the opposition 22 a few times in the opening stages and come away with nothing and then get sucker punched to the tune of 14 points.

Some of the newer faces looked a little overwhelmed and couldn't bring their provincial form to the game. We were incredibly predictable despite getting huge possession and quick ball on a number of occasions. I thought our patience was poor and there's no way we would have tried to force things as much against France, England or Wales.

In summary:

Kearney: Actually not a bad game despite what some appear to have seen. Had a couple of big moments and was continually taking the game to Scotland and making ground if not cutting open the opposition. One huge tackle which saved a try. Checked the stats this morning and appears to confirm what I saw, by far the most defenders beaten and ground made.

Earls: finished the try well but that was his high point. Always a dangerous player but some important errors too. Needs to find some form in green at this stage.

Ringrose: Looked overwhelmed and does not bring anywhere near the authority to midfield that Payne does. Misjudged for the opening try although it was essentially a shot to nothing given Scotland had a huge overlap. Did not gel with those around him at all.

Henshaw: Took the game to Scotland and carried strongly into contact repeatedly. Again, didn't click with those around him.

Jackson: Looked extremely pedestrian in the first half. Very predictable and deep. Needed to be far slicker and threaten the line more which he did in the second half but too late. Looked hesitant in that first half and is capable of much better.

Murray: An underwhelming showing but still not bad. A couple of poor kicks, a couple of lovely ones. Passing was still on the money and cleared the ball quickly and accurately.

Heaslip: Very mixed bag. A couple of bad errors. Really poor decision to pass on the break. Takes contact and we recycle for a handy try. But also put his hand up continually and carried well, making ground nearly every time particularly in the first half with good footwork. Indiscipline a black mark too.

SOB: Was very aggressive and dangerous. Carried well and won a big penalty too. Came off when the legs were starting to wobble a bit.

Stander: Also carried well and won a big penalty. Needs a little more variation to his game at this point. Scotland clearly had him marked in the first half and put a wall of defenders in front of him at every carry. Made more progress in the second half.

Toner: Needs to take responsibility along with his captain for the set piece. Got it sorted but the damage was done. Good work rate but that is not enough at this level.

Henderson: Quiet overall and a very sloppy miss in the line out. Took his try well but again needs to up his showing and is capable of much better.

Furlong: A very decent game. Crushed their scrum and carried well. Becoming incredibly consistent.

Best: Tackled his socks off but line out struggles were notable and some throws lacked zip and were picked off with ease. Notably quiet/absent in the loose.

McGrath: Solid but quiet. Part of a good scrum but didn't have his normal impact around the field. Can be content with his part but can improve too.

But it wasn't. Poor and all as we were. That's why I wouldn't be getting too carried away from a Scottish pov.

We went ahead and showed a lack of composure in the final 10 minutes. Put Eng/FR/Wales in front 10 minutes to go there and they'll close it out.

We're nowhere near good enough to win a GS.

First Up · 05-02-2017 01:28PM

Buer wrote:

Scannell doesn't have a sniff of getting in. Firstly, Luke Marshall was the extra man and is the same type of player as well as covering the same positions. So he's ahead in the pecking order.

I think Scannell is the more versatile of thosr two but I'd be surprised if he didn't stick with Ringrose.

shootermacg · 05-02-2017 01:37PM

errlloyd wrote: »

Luckily players aren't judged on one game, and most of us can remember Ringrose getting an amazing individual try in his stellar performance against Australia.

You see, I don't think his performance was stellar at all. I thought he stood too deep for that game. And, the amazing try..while all tries are amazing, that try was as much Henderson and Toner as it was him.

Buer · 05-02-2017 01:39PM

First Up wrote:

I think Scannell is the more versatile of thosr two but I'd be surprised if he didn't stick with Ringrose.

He will. The main issues yesterday weren't the personnel. The team looked poorly prepared and were out thought.

Alpha_zero · 05-02-2017 01:40PM

Irish Rugby is overrated, a history of bottling it, all one needs to do is look at a dismal world cup performance that was somehow spun in a positive manner. We went into that game thinking we would beat Argentina and were in for a rude awakening.

I wonder how long until Sean O Brien gets injured again.

First Up · 05-02-2017 01:41PM

shootermacg wrote:

You see, I don't think his performance was stellar at all. I thought he stood too deep for that game. And, the amazing try..while all tries are amazing, that try was as much Henderson and Toner as it was him.

Scannell definitely deserves a run at some point but its not long since RR was being annointed as the new BOD. He is still one of the most exciting talents around; if players were being judged on yesterday alone there's a few we wouldn't see again.

Rightwing · 05-02-2017 01:50PM

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Irish Rugby is overrated, a history of bottling it, all one needs to do is look at a dismal world cup performance that was somehow spun in a positive manner. We went into that game thinking we would beat Argentina and were in for a rude awakening.

I wonder how long until Sean O Brien gets injured again.

No question about this.

Underachievers. Yet, people like to laud ourselves as champions.

We have 1 Grand Slam in 50 odd years. No world cup semi final.

But luckily, we do have a world class coach, I'd hate to see where we'd be without him, toiling with Georgia perhaps. :rolleyes:

OldRio · 05-02-2017 01:52PM

Buer wrote: »

He will. The main issues yesterday weren't the personnel. The team looked poorly prepared and were out thought.

Agree 100%.

05-02-2017 01:53PM

shuffol wrote: »

I think a moment that had a huge impact on the match was when we were stuffing them in the scrum early on, think it was scoreless and we'd a penalty in their corner where we opted for the lineout and lost possession. A scrum then would very likely have led to a penalty try and possibly a yellow card.

There's too much of a fixation on red cards, yellow cards, and penalty tries over here. I understand the frustration when you can have a seemingly dominant pack and the opposition appears to be infringing, but pressure should be converted into points without hoping for the intervention of the ref.

05-02-2017 02:09PM

Basil3 wrote: »

There's too much of a fixation on red cards, yellow cards, and penalty tries over here. I understand the frustration when you can have a seemingly dominant pack and the opposition appears to be infringing, but pressure should be converted into points without hoping for the intervention of the ref.

Still though, France beat us last year by turning the screw in the set piece at 60 mins. We had the opportunity to do the same yesterday but Best made the wrong calls and the throwing / jumping compounded matters.

Bad day at the office, reality check that I only hope is something we can draw from at a crucial point in the future.

Tigerandahalf · 05-02-2017 02:19PM

I think a lot of Ireland's problems go way back.

For years now our backline has been a real weakness. Fresh blood will have to come in. It is a shame that Sweetnam got injured as he looked the real deal when I saw him - does the basics really well.

Pace needs to be brought into the backline. Though Earls has pace I have never rated him. He can't tackle nor decide on what to defend in the channel in front of him. He had the same issues at 13. At least on the wing he was out of the way but his tackle yesterday was typical.

I hope Ringrose's issues improve. I still think he can be a very good player but he needs to learn fast or he will be out of the team.

Who is coaching the backs though? Is it Schimdt? I see no backline moves. There is no doubt that Schmidt favours more conservative backs like Trimble than Zebo as he doesn't like players risking turnovers. But players have to be allowed to have a cut.

While our scrum has been excellent we need to be careful what we do with it. With a solid scrum we should be running backline moves off it. Instead we seem content to force the scrum penalty and kick down the line for a lineout.

With our strong scrum we could also do with more power off the base. Maybe Stander to 8. Or just give Jack Conan a run.

I thought Henderson was poor too yesterday. He has had a lot of injuries and is being played out of position at Ulster so he needs lots of games at 4 if he is to become that player people hoped.

I thought Paddy Jackson went well after a slow start. If he can mix up his game more he has a lot to offer.

From here I just hope a few more players get blooded. It was good to see John Ryan get on the pitch. With him, Bealham and Furlong we have great strength at TH.

It is a pity that Marmion didn't get a run. He is in good form at the moment and could have offered a break which was badly lacking.

thomond2006 · 05-02-2017 02:23PM

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Irish Rugby is overrated, a history of bottling it, all one needs to do is look at a dismal world cup performance that was somehow spun in a positive manner. We went into that game thinking we would beat Argentina and were in for a rude awakening.

I wonder how long until Sean O Brien gets injured again.

What a lovely first post in the rugby forum. Do come again.

nagdefy · 05-02-2017 02:33PM

With every passing year i feel Eddie O'Sullivan's 3 Triple Crowns in the 2000s are underrated. Granted Scotland and Wales weren't as strong but still they're bloody hard to win.

The Rape of Lucretia · 05-02-2017 02:56PM

nagdefy wrote: »

With every passing year i feel Eddie O'Sullivan's 3 Triple Crowns in the 2000s are underrated.

You cannot underrate a triple crown. They are nothings. Historical irrelevancies. Retro curios only. Zeros. Non-events. They mean nothing in modern rugby.
What those seasons were, were non championship winning three or four win seasons. Not nothings as second places. But as triple crowns, as relevant as the Centenary Quachie.

mansize · 05-02-2017 02:57PM

nagdefy wrote: »

With every passing year i feel Eddie O'Sullivan's 3 Triple Crowns in the 2000s are underrated. Granted Scotland and Wales weren't as strong but still they're bloody hard to win.

They should have been GS winning years! Where's Eddie now???

nagdefy · 05-02-2017 03:00PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

You cannot underrate a triple crown. They are nothings. Historical irrelevancies. Retro curios only. Zeros. Non-events. They mean nothing in modern rugby.
What those seasons were, were non championship winning three or four win seasons. Not nothings as second places. But as triple crowns, as relevant as the Centenary Quachie.

Well it says something if they are nothing but we still can't string the 3 wins together.

First Up · 05-02-2017 03:01PM

mansize wrote:

They should have been GS winning years! Where's Eddie now???

Was in the RTE studio feeling sorry for himself on Friday evening.

nagdefy · 05-02-2017 03:02PM

mansize wrote: »

They should have been GS winning years! Where's Eddie now???

They shouldn't France were streets ahead of us in Paris in 2004 and also 2006, the year of our big second half comeback. Yes in 2007.

Have ye a problem with EOS?

nagdefy · 05-02-2017 03:03PM

Conor O'Shea spent plenty of time in the RTE studio but no one's abusing him!

mansize · 05-02-2017 03:03PM

https://twitter.com/aldi_ireland/status/827964405950328833

I lolled

mansize · 05-02-2017 03:04PM

First Up wrote: »

Was in the RTE studio feeling sorry for himself on Friday evening.

So not managing at the top level. Didn't USA Eagles allow him "spend more time with his family"???

Scotland vs Ireland, 4th Feb 2017, Murrayfield, 2:25, RTÉ 2

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