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The British army used torture in Northern Ireland.

  • 02-02-2017 07:02PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭


    We have previously seen evidence of far reaching collusion with terrorist groups. These include allegations that British army members were part of the Glenanne gang who likely aided the Dublin bombings and allegations that the RUC aided loyalists kill innocent civilians. Now we have evidence that torture was used during the internment without trial period during the troubles and beyond. So colluding with, and aiding terrorists and torture. This on top of state sponsored sectarianism.

    50 years on how will the British role in Northern Ireland be viewed?

    From the BBC
    The former Liberal Democrat leader Lord Ashdown has called for an inquiry into claims of torture by the Army during the Northern Ireland Troubles.
    A human rights organisation said it had uncovered documents which revealed waterboarding and electric shocks were used in Northern Ireland in the 1970s.
    The Pat Finucane Centre (PFC) said the allegations of torture were known at the highest political levels.
    The government said it would not comment on specific allegations.
    It added that it viewed torture as "abhorrent".
    Waterboarding is an interrogation process that causes the subject to experience the sensation of drowning.
    In 2012, a BBC documentary, Inside the Torture Chamber, broadcast claims that the practice was used 40 years ago.
    On Wednesday night, Channel Four broadcast similar allegations in relation to the Parachute Regiment in the 1970s.
    Documents uncovered by the Pat Finucane Centre (PFC) are said to include the minutes of a meeting between the then Prime Minister Edward Heath and the Irish Taoiseach (PM) Jack Lynch.
    'Utterly destructive'
    In the meeting, Mr Lynch raised concerns to the prime minister about the treatment of an epileptic prisoner who had been interrogated five times.
    "He was forced to lie on his back on the floor, a wet towel was then placed over his head and water poured over it to give him the impression that he would be suffocated," Mr Lynch is reported as saying.
    Lord Ashdown, who commanded troops in Belfast in the 1970s, said he was not surprised by the allegations.

    "I think it is utterly destructive, it corrupts and invades the whole of society and I don't think the intelligence is at all useful either," Lord Ashdown told BBC Radio Foyle.
    "I strongly suspect that not every unit in Belfast would have observed the same principles and it does not surprise me that this did go on."
    In 2012, Liam Holden told the BBC about his experience of waterboarding.
    He was 19 at the time and was being questioned by members of the Parachute Regiment about the murder of a soldier, Private Frank Bell.
    Mr Holden said he was taken from his home and brought to an Army post at a school, where he was held for almost five hours.
    'Wrong, immoral, illegal'
    When asked if there should be an inquiry into allegations of army torture, Lord Ashdown said: "The blunt answer is yes."
    "If it is the case that these forms of torture were used, if there is documentary evidence to prove it, and if there is a case that the government was aware of it and hid it, then it is important those facts come out," he said.
    "I do not believe that the government would have sanctioned these at a high level but it does appear to be the case that they certainly hid the facts and I find that unacceptable.
    "This must now come out in detail and I hope the secretary of state makes the appropriate response."


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    steddyeddy wrote: »

    50 years on how will the British role in Northern Ireland be viewed?


    Probably on the History Channel through some type of VR / eye implant device











    (hey, It's AH! THis is too heavy for us... try Politics forum for proper discussion! :pac:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,885 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    I can't help but feel that Donald Trump will somehow get blamed for this. This is a politics topic in after hours ...It's bound to happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dinorebel


    Fratton Fred and FrancieBrady in 1 2 3................................


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    So the British Army used torture and murder abroad???

    In other news, rain is wet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭learn_more


    Personally I'd be quite happy not to ever think about NI politics good or bad ever again, now that the terrorist campaigns have largely ceased. Won't be spending any time looking back or worrying about what the history books say of either side. Time to move on.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Considering some of the collusion that went on between the security forces and various paramilitary groups, this doesn't surprise me in the least.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Nothing new from the time from both sides unfortunately


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Gatling wrote: »
    Nothing new from the time from both sides unfortunately
    Ah now, you have to hold the state to a higher standard. The British state torturing British citizens. It's totally outrageous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Ferrari3600


    The Southern Unionist/Sindo/Harrisite/Cruiserite faction will be in soon, resurrecting the corpse of the unfortunate Jean McConville for another round of propaganda shilling.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Ferrari3600


    FTA69 wrote: »
    So the British Army used torture and murder abroad???

    In other news, rain is wet.

    True.

    But it might very well be news to the average Sindo reader. And a troublingly high % of the Irish populace receive their 'news' and 'leading political analysis' from that discredited source. Beats me why, as with the honourable exception of Gene Kerrigan, it is obviously a filthy, debased, evil, immoral anti-Irish gutter rag, a cuckoo in the nest as it were, but there you go.

    During the Troubles many terrorists were put on trial and I have no quibble with that. But in the court of the conscience (*), many prominent Sindo columnists should themselves be on trial for crimes against the truth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Conscience


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  • Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Where's Fred? The thread's up over 10 minutes and he hasn't been propelled here to defend his glorious motherland against the dastardly native hordes (the defence of Trevelyan a few weeks ago was inspiring!).


    Yeah, to think of all the slaveen Cruise O'Brien/Myers/Harris/Dudley Edwards/Fanning/John A. Murphy/Brendan O'Connor/Elis O'Hanlon/Sticky fanclub in the Sunday Independent who have been adamant for the past 40 years that the British state was not torturing Irishmen, and colluding with their loyalist paramilitaries in the murder of Irish people. Supposedly it was all "republican propaganda" - even after John Stalker's inquiry, and John Stevens inquiries found that, well, yes, the British state's servants were giving information on a regular basis to said paramilitaries to kill Irish people. Oh, and all the Amnesty International and Helsinki Watch inquiries. Guilty as sin. Indeed, for these idiots who are now being shown to have been on the wrong side of history, the British have been here as "impartial peacemakers" for the past 300 years.

    Anyway, another case is due back in the European Court of Human Rights later this year so prepare for the usual suspects to be back here condemning the ECHR when Britain, having lied through its teeth in 1976, is finally found guilty of using a policy of 'torture' in its use of the Five Techniques against this latest generation of Irish people.

    The Torture Centre: Northern Ireland's Hooded Men

    And for those brave enough, here's a very much banned 1974 documentary on British torture of Irish people at the time:

    http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-ireland-behind-the-wire-1974/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭kingchess


    And where is marynotallthere to prove that it was actually the victims who volunteered to take part in some rough play?/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    I think the dog on the street knew this was going on.

    Really think they should be an open forum similar to the South African model, where all sides without fear of reprisal and imprisonment, come forth and state what they did, when and where and let history decide.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I think the dog on the street knew this was going on.

    Really think they should be an open forum similar to the South African model, where all sides without fear of reprisal and imprisonment, come forth and state what they did, when and where and let history decide.

    I think honesty is more important than justice at this stage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Where's Fred? The thread's up over 10 minutes and he hasn't been propelled here to defend his glorious motherland against the dastardly native hordes (the defence of Trevelyan a few weeks ago was inspiring!).


    Yeah, to think of all the slaveen Cruise O'Brien/Myers/Harris/Dudley Edwards/Fanning/John A. Murphy/Brendan O'Connor/Elis O'Hanlon/Sticky fanclub in the Sunday Independent who have been adamant for the past 40 years that the British state was not torturing Irishmen, and colluding with their loyalist paramilitaries in the murder of Irish people. Supposedly it was all "republican propaganda" - even after John Stalker's inquiry, and John Stevens inquiries found that, well, yes, the British state's servants were giving information on a regular basis to said paramilitaries to kill Irish people. Oh, and all the Amnesty International and Helsinki Watch inquiries. Guilty as sin. Indeed, for these idiots who are now being shown to have been on the wrong side of history, the British have been here as "impartial peacemakers" for the past 300 years.

    Anyway, another case is due back in the European Court of Human Rights later this year so prepare for the usual suspects to be back here condemning the ECHR when Britain, having lied through its teeth in 1976, is finally found guilty of using a policy of 'torture' in its use of the Five Techniques against this latest generation of Irish people.

    The Torture Centre: Northern Ireland's Hooded Men

    And for those brave enough, here's a very much banned 1974 documentary on British torture of Irish people at the time:

    http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-ireland-behind-the-wire-1974/

    Shut up you. There was a complex and deeply nuanced relationship between our two islands and we were cooperating more often than not and Dublin was the second city of the empire after all. If there was some hassle, we should all move on and forget the past. (Unless it's Gerry Adams' past that is and we'll never hear the end of it then).

    Also you're stuck in the past and probably a barstool republican. Celtic jersey etc.



    *thats pretty much how much of this thread will go.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    I thought were always told it was a war, bad things happened on both sides and we should move on.

    Or is that only for certain parties to say?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    They got off lightly, I would have given them the firing squad.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Ferrari3600


    They got off lightly, I would have given them the firing squad.

    The Brit torturers? I don't agree with this, everyone deserves fair process.

    Remember the Birmingham Six, Guildford Four and Maguire Seven. Falsely accused and convicted for crimes they didn't commit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    They got off lightly, I would have given them the firing squad.

    A lot of them were innocent ALP. Just rounded up because they were Catholic, but maybe you knew that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,031 ✭✭✭Feisar


    To quote the title: "The British army used torture in Northern Ireland."

    Question: Why wouldn't they?

    First they came for the socialists...



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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    They got off lightly, I would have given them the firing squad.

    A lot of them were innocent ALP. Just rounded up because they were Catholic, but maybe you knew that.
    In times of war these things happen. Sure the IRA can't be responsible for planting bombs and blowing people up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Ferrari3600


    Where's Fred?

    I don't particularly have a problem with Fred's perspective or viewpoint, much as I often disagree with it, he is English himself (though in no way are his views representative of all, or even a majority, of his countryfolk).

    I'm much more concerned about the damage done by the Irish Southern Unionist propagandists, and you've named the names. It's a form of psychosis, really, a form of self-hatred - I can only guess, and I'm not a psychologist, that it has its roots in colonialism itself (Frantz Fanon is interesting on this subject).

    The kindest thing that can be done with such people is to urge that they receive mental health assistance. They certainly shouldn't be allowed near the airwaves or any form of broadcast media - that allows them to inflict their psychosis on others. Granted, smart people are immune to their b.olloxology, but, well, half of any given population have an IQ below the median.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    FTA69 wrote: »

    Also you're stuck in the past and probably a barstool republican

    Well you got that bit correct.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Well you got that bit correct.

    Yeah but I've Chelsea boots on and I drink IPA these days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    In times of war these things happen. Sure the IRA can't be responsible for planting bombs and blowing people up.

    Well stop trying to claim the moral highground to the IRA. Torturing innocent people isn't on.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    In times of war these things happen. Sure the IRA can't be responsible for planting bombs and blowing people up.

    Well stop trying to claim the moral highground to the IRA. Torturing innocent people isn't on.
    Depends who is being tortured, any PIRA and I am fine with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Depends who is being tortured, any PIRA and I am fine with it.

    Indeed but a large number of innocent people were tortured.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Depends who is being tortured, any PIRA and I am fine with it.

    Indeed but a large number of innocent people were tortured.
    The soldiers will get some letters to get them off.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Yeah but I've Chelsea boots on and I drink IPA these days.

    No half sovereign ring and sheepskin jacket?

    Bleedin yuppies.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    The soldiers will get some letters to get them off.

    It sounds like torture is what got them off TBH.


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