The British army used torture in Northern Ireland.

steddyeddy

We have previously seen evidence of far reaching collusion with terrorist groups. These include allegations that British army members were part of the Glenanne gang who likely aided the Dublin bombings and allegations that the RUC aided loyalists kill innocent civilians. Now we have evidence that torture was used during the internment without trial period during the troubles and beyond. So colluding with, and aiding terrorists and torture. This on top of state sponsored sectarianism.

50 years on how will the British role in Northern Ireland be viewed?

From the BBC

The former Liberal Democrat leader Lord Ashdown has called for an inquiry into claims of torture by the Army during the Northern Ireland Troubles.
A human rights organisation said it had uncovered documents which revealed waterboarding and electric shocks were used in Northern Ireland in the 1970s.
The Pat Finucane Centre (PFC) said the allegations of torture were known at the highest political levels.
The government said it would not comment on specific allegations.
It added that it viewed torture as "abhorrent".
Waterboarding is an interrogation process that causes the subject to experience the sensation of drowning.
In 2012, a BBC documentary, Inside the Torture Chamber, broadcast claims that the practice was used 40 years ago.
On Wednesday night, Channel Four broadcast similar allegations in relation to the Parachute Regiment in the 1970s.
Documents uncovered by the Pat Finucane Centre (PFC) are said to include the minutes of a meeting between the then Prime Minister Edward Heath and the Irish Taoiseach (PM) Jack Lynch.
'Utterly destructive'
In the meeting, Mr Lynch raised concerns to the prime minister about the treatment of an epileptic prisoner who had been interrogated five times.
"He was forced to lie on his back on the floor, a wet towel was then placed over his head and water poured over it to give him the impression that he would be suffocated," Mr Lynch is reported as saying.
Lord Ashdown, who commanded troops in Belfast in the 1970s, said he was not surprised by the allegations.

"I think it is utterly destructive, it corrupts and invades the whole of society and I don't think the intelligence is at all useful either," Lord Ashdown told BBC Radio Foyle.
"I strongly suspect that not every unit in Belfast would have observed the same principles and it does not surprise me that this did go on."
In 2012, Liam Holden told the BBC about his experience of waterboarding.
He was 19 at the time and was being questioned by members of the Parachute Regiment about the murder of a soldier, Private Frank Bell.
Mr Holden said he was taken from his home and brought to an Army post at a school, where he was held for almost five hours.
'Wrong, immoral, illegal'
When asked if there should be an inquiry into allegations of army torture, Lord Ashdown said: "The blunt answer is yes."
"If it is the case that these forms of torture were used, if there is documentary evidence to prove it, and if there is a case that the government was aware of it and hid it, then it is important those facts come out," he said.
"I do not believe that the government would have sanctioned these at a high level but it does appear to be the case that they certainly hid the facts and I find that unacceptable.
"This must now come out in detail and I hope the secretary of state makes the appropriate response."

whiskeyman

steddyeddy wrote: »

50 years on how will the British role in Northern Ireland be viewed?

Probably on the History Channel through some type of VR / eye implant device











(hey, It's AH! THis is too heavy for us... try Politics forum for proper discussion! :pac:)

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

I can't help but feel that Donald Trump will somehow get blamed for this. This is a politics topic in after hours ...It's bound to happen.

dinorebel

Fratton Fred and FrancieBrady in 1 2 3................................

FTA69

So the British Army used torture and murder abroad???

In other news, rain is wet.

learn_more

Personally I'd be quite happy not to ever think about NI politics good or bad ever again, now that the terrorist campaigns have largely ceased. Won't be spending any time looking back or worrying about what the history books say of either side. Time to move on.

Hande hoche!

Considering some of the collusion that went on between the security forces and various paramilitary groups, this doesn't surprise me in the least.

Gatling

Nothing new from the time from both sides unfortunately

oppenheimer1

Gatling wrote: »

Nothing new from the time from both sides unfortunately

Ah now, you have to hold the state to a higher standard. The British state torturing British citizens. It's totally outrageous.

Ferrari3600

The Southern Unionist/Sindo/Harrisite/Cruiserite faction will be in soon, resurrecting the corpse of the unfortunate Jean McConville for another round of propaganda shilling.

Ferrari3600

FTA69 wrote: »

So the British Army used torture and murder abroad???

In other news, rain is wet.

True.

But it might very well be news to the average Sindo reader. And a troublingly high % of the Irish populace receive their 'news' and 'leading political analysis' from that discredited source. Beats me why, as with the honourable exception of Gene Kerrigan, it is obviously a filthy, debased, evil, immoral anti-Irish gutter rag, a cuckoo in the nest as it were, but there you go.

During the Troubles many terrorists were put on trial and I have no quibble with that. But in the court of the conscience (*), many prominent Sindo columnists should themselves be on trial for crimes against the truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Conscience

Where's Fred? The thread's up over 10 minutes and he hasn't been propelled here to defend his glorious motherland against the dastardly native hordes (the defence of Trevelyan a few weeks ago was inspiring!).


Yeah, to think of all the slaveen Cruise O'Brien/Myers/Harris/Dudley Edwards/Fanning/John A. Murphy/Brendan O'Connor/Elis O'Hanlon/Sticky fanclub in the Sunday Independent who have been adamant for the past 40 years that the British state was not torturing Irishmen, and colluding with their loyalist paramilitaries in the murder of Irish people. Supposedly it was all "republican propaganda" - even after John Stalker's inquiry, and John Stevens inquiries found that, well, yes, the British state's servants were giving information on a regular basis to said paramilitaries to kill Irish people. Oh, and all the Amnesty International and Helsinki Watch inquiries. Guilty as sin. Indeed, for these idiots who are now being shown to have been on the wrong side of history, the British have been here as "impartial peacemakers" for the past 300 years.

Anyway, another case is due back in the European Court of Human Rights later this year so prepare for the usual suspects to be back here condemning the ECHR when Britain, having lied through its teeth in 1976, is finally found guilty of using a policy of 'torture' in its use of the Five Techniques against this latest generation of Irish people.

The Torture Centre: Northern Ireland's Hooded Men

And for those brave enough, here's a very much banned 1974 documentary on British torture of Irish people at the time:

http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-ireland-behind-the-wire-1974/

kingchess

And where is marynotallthere to prove that it was actually the victims who volunteered to take part in some rough play?/

The_Valeyard

I think the dog on the street knew this was going on.

Really think they should be an open forum similar to the South African model, where all sides without fear of reprisal and imprisonment, come forth and state what they did, when and where and let history decide.

steddyeddy

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I think the dog on the street knew this was going on.

Really think they should be an open forum similar to the South African model, where all sides without fear of reprisal and imprisonment, come forth and state what they did, when and where and let history decide.

I think honesty is more important than justice at this stage.

FTA69

Deleted User wrote: »

Where's Fred? The thread's up over 10 minutes and he hasn't been propelled here to defend his glorious motherland against the dastardly native hordes (the defence of Trevelyan a few weeks ago was inspiring!).


Yeah, to think of all the slaveen Cruise O'Brien/Myers/Harris/Dudley Edwards/Fanning/John A. Murphy/Brendan O'Connor/Elis O'Hanlon/Sticky fanclub in the Sunday Independent who have been adamant for the past 40 years that the British state was not torturing Irishmen, and colluding with their loyalist paramilitaries in the murder of Irish people. Supposedly it was all "republican propaganda" - even after John Stalker's inquiry, and John Stevens inquiries found that, well, yes, the British state's servants were giving information on a regular basis to said paramilitaries to kill Irish people. Oh, and all the Amnesty International and Helsinki Watch inquiries. Guilty as sin. Indeed, for these idiots who are now being shown to have been on the wrong side of history, the British have been here as "impartial peacemakers" for the past 300 years.

Anyway, another case is due back in the European Court of Human Rights later this year so prepare for the usual suspects to be back here condemning the ECHR when Britain, having lied through its teeth in 1976, is finally found guilty of using a policy of 'torture' in its use of the Five Techniques against this latest generation of Irish people.

The Torture Centre: Northern Ireland's Hooded Men

And for those brave enough, here's a very much banned 1974 documentary on British torture of Irish people at the time:

http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-ireland-behind-the-wire-1974/

Shut up you. There was a complex and deeply nuanced relationship between our two islands and we were cooperating more often than not and Dublin was the second city of the empire after all. If there was some hassle, we should all move on and forget the past. (Unless it's Gerry Adams' past that is and we'll never hear the end of it then).

Also you're stuck in the past and probably a barstool republican. Celtic jersey etc.



*thats pretty much how much of this thread will go.

Wheeliebin30

I thought were always told it was a war, bad things happened on both sides and we should move on.

Or is that only for certain parties to say?

A Little Pony

They got off lightly, I would have given them the firing squad.

Ferrari3600

A Little Pony wrote: »

They got off lightly, I would have given them the firing squad.

The Brit torturers? I don't agree with this, everyone deserves fair process.

Remember the Birmingham Six, Guildford Four and Maguire Seven. Falsely accused and convicted for crimes they didn't commit.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

They got off lightly, I would have given them the firing squad.

A lot of them were innocent ALP. Just rounded up because they were Catholic, but maybe you knew that.

Feisar

To quote the title: "The British army used torture in Northern Ireland."

Question: Why wouldn't they?

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

They got off lightly, I would have given them the firing squad.

A lot of them were innocent ALP. Just rounded up because they were Catholic, but maybe you knew that.

In times of war these things happen. Sure the IRA can't be responsible for planting bombs and blowing people up.

Ferrari3600

Deleted User wrote: »

Where's Fred?

I don't particularly have a problem with Fred's perspective or viewpoint, much as I often disagree with it, he is English himself (though in no way are his views representative of all, or even a majority, of his countryfolk).

I'm much more concerned about the damage done by the Irish Southern Unionist propagandists, and you've named the names. It's a form of psychosis, really, a form of self-hatred - I can only guess, and I'm not a psychologist, that it has its roots in colonialism itself (Frantz Fanon is interesting on this subject).

The kindest thing that can be done with such people is to urge that they receive mental health assistance. They certainly shouldn't be allowed near the airwaves or any form of broadcast media - that allows them to inflict their psychosis on others. Granted, smart people are immune to their b.olloxology, but, well, half of any given population have an IQ below the median.

Fratton Fred

FTA69 wrote: »

Also you're stuck in the past and probably a barstool republican

Well you got that bit correct.

FTA69

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Well you got that bit correct.

Yeah but I've Chelsea boots on and I drink IPA these days.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

In times of war these things happen. Sure the IRA can't be responsible for planting bombs and blowing people up.

Well stop trying to claim the moral highground to the IRA. Torturing innocent people isn't on.

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

In times of war these things happen. Sure the IRA can't be responsible for planting bombs and blowing people up.

Well stop trying to claim the moral highground to the IRA. Torturing innocent people isn't on.

Depends who is being tortured, any PIRA and I am fine with it.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Depends who is being tortured, any PIRA and I am fine with it.

Indeed but a large number of innocent people were tortured.

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Depends who is being tortured, any PIRA and I am fine with it.

Indeed but a large number of innocent people were tortured.

The soldiers will get some letters to get them off.

Fratton Fred

FTA69 wrote: »

Yeah but I've Chelsea boots on and I drink IPA these days.

No half sovereign ring and sheepskin jacket?

Bleedin yuppies.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

The soldiers will get some letters to get them off.

It sounds like torture is what got them off TBH.

MrRolex

Ironic that Paddy Ashdown was a Royal Marine, and SAS; says there should be an inquiry. When he would most likely have been involved in the torture himself. In 1970 he was given command of a Royal Marine company in Belfast. He served in the Royal Marines until 1972 then joined the SAS.
This would be like Prince Charles saying there should be an inquiry into Bloody Sunday; and he was a Para commander himself.
The reality is this, about 3,000 people on both sides were killed in the 30 years of the Troubles. Very bad things were done on both sides, and good (and bad) people were killed.
All the inquiries, trials, compensation, apologies; won't put the dead back living. Maybe it will lessen the grief for some, or bring closure.
But I think the only thing that will right the wrongs is time. And one cannot speed up time.
In my own life, I have lived in the North, Republic, England. Honestly, it's only when one has lived in all 3 places, one can look at Nothern Ireland and the Troubles from every perspective.
I have met and spoken to Republicans and Loyalists. The funny thing is, they are the same people; willing to die or kill for their beliefs. Many that were involved suffer with guilt and PTSD. Some deeply regret the things they saw, and did, for the cause. All an inquiry does for these people is open wounds and messes their head up even more. The victims families have their raw emotions and wounds opened up even more by them. Blame and justice don't heal pain.
The majority of people in the North want peace now, and that is a good thing. These inquiries cost a lot of money, and open more wounds than heal them in my opinion.
For example, David Cameron apologising for the Para's killing on Bloody Sunday did not really heal anyone's pain. We all know it was wrong. An enquiry doesn't right that wrong.
Yes, the British Army, B Specials, UDA, UVF, RUC; did torture. But so did the IRA, PIRA, etc.
In war very bad things happen, and the Troubles and what the British Army did were no different to any war.
But Ashdown talking about it is pointless at this stage. The war is over now.

ohnonotgmail

MrRolex wrote: »

Ironic that Paddy Ashdown was a Royal Marine, and SAS; says there should be an inquiry. When he would most likely have been involved in the torture himself. In 1970 he was given command of a Royal Marine company in Belfast. He served in the Royal Marines until 1972 then joined the SAS.
This would be like Prince Charles saying there should be an inquiry into Bloody Sunday; and he was a Para commander himself.
The reality is this, about 3,000 people on both sides were killed in the 30 years of the Troubles. Very bad things were done on both sides, and good (and bad) people were killed.
All the inquiries, trials, compensation, apologies; won't put the dead back living. Maybe it will lessen the grief for some, or bring closure.
But I think the only thing that will right the wrongs is time. And one cannot speed up time.
In my own life, I have lived in the North, Republic, England. Honestly, it's only when one has lived in all 3 places, one can look at Nothern and the Troubles from every perspective.
I have met and spoken to Republicans and Loyalists. The funny thing is, they are the same people; willing to die or kill for their beliefs. Many that were involved suffer with guilt and PTSD. Some deeply regret the things they saw, and did, for the cause. All an inquiry does for these people is open wounds and messes their head up even more. The victims families have their raw emotions and wounds opened up even more by them. Blame and justice don't heal pain.
The majority of people in the North want peace now, and that is a good thing. These inquiries cost a lot of money, and open more wounds than heal them in my opinion.
For example, David Cameron apologising for the Para's killing on Bloody Sunday did not really heal anyone's pain. We all know it was wrong. An enquiry doesn't right that wrong.
Yes, the British Army, B Specials, UDA, UVF, RUC; did torture. But so did the IRA, PIRA, etc.
In war very bad things happen, and the Troubles and what the British Army did were no different to any war.
But Ashdown talking about it is pointless at this stage. The war is over now.

Ashdown was SBS not SAS.

MrRolex

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Ashdown was SBS not SAS.

Agreed.
I stand corrected.

ohnonotgmail

MrRolex wrote: »

Agreed.
I stand corrected.

And as commander of a royal marines company would be very unlikely to be involved in torture.

MrRolex

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

And as commander of a royal marines company would be very unlikely to be involved in torture.

OK boss.
You know best.

R P McMurphy

MrRolex wrote: »

Ironic that Paddy oAshdown was a Royal Marine, and SAS; says there should be an inquiry. When he would most likely have been involved in the torture himself. In 1970 he was given command of a Royal Marine company in Belfast. He served in the Royal Marines until 1972 then joined the SAS.
This would be like Prince Charles saying there should be an inquiry into Bloody Sunday; and he was a Para commander himself.
The reality is this, about 3,000 people on both sides were killed in the 30 years of the Troubles. Very bad things were done on both sides, and good (and bad) people were killed.
All the inquiries, trials, compensation, apologies; won't put the dead back living. Maybe it will lessen the grief for some, or bring closure.
But I think the only thing that will right the wrongs is time. And one cannot speed up time.
In my own life, I have lived in the North, Republic, England. Honestly, it's only when one has lived in all 3 places, one can look at Nothern Ireland and the Troubles from every perspective.
I have met and spoken to Republicans and Loyalists. The funny thing is, they are the same people; willing to die or kill for their beliefs. Many that were involved suffer with guilt and PTSD. Some deeply regret the things they saw, and did, for the cause. All an inquiry does for these people is open wounds and messes their head up even more. The victims families have their raw emotions and wounds opened up even more by them. Blame and justice don't heal pain.
The majority of people in the North want peace now, and that is a good thing. These inquiries cost a lot of money, and open more wounds than heal them in my opinion.
For example, David Cameron apologising for the Para's killing on Bloody Sunday did not really heal anyone's pain. We all know it was wrong. An enquiry doesn't right that wrong.
Yes, the British Army, B Specials, UDA, UVF, RUC; did torture. But so did the IRA, PIRA, etc.
In war very bad things happen, and the Troubles and what the British Army did were no different to any war.
But Ashdown talking about it is pointless at this stage. The war is over now.

You are very wrong on the significance of the bloody Sunday enquiry. On what basis are you saying that there was no point to it?

You attitude of just forget and move on is simplistic nonsense as it is almost two decades on from the final IRA ceasefire and in some respects none of the divisions have healed at all. The way forward was always a truth and reconciliation process but this was never going to be accepted given the depths the British army sank to in the dirty war

FrancieBrady

MrRolex wrote: »

Ironic that Paddy Ashdown was a Royal Marine, and SAS; says there should be an inquiry. When he would most likely have been involved in the torture himself. In 1970 he was given command of a Royal Marine company in Belfast. He served in the Royal Marines until 1972 then joined the SAS.
This would be like Prince Charles saying there should be an inquiry into Bloody Sunday; and he was a Para commander himself.
The reality is this, about 3,000 people on both sides were killed in the 30 years of the Troubles. Very bad things were done on both sides, and good (and bad) people were killed.
All the inquiries, trials, compensation, apologies; won't put the dead back living. Maybe it will lessen the grief for some, or bring closure.
But I think the only thing that will right the wrongs is time. And one cannot speed up time.
In my own life, I have lived in the North, Republic, England. Honestly, it's only when one has lived in all 3 places, one can look at Nothern Ireland and the Troubles from every perspective.
I have met and spoken to Republicans and Loyalists. The funny thing is, they are the same people; willing to die or kill for their beliefs. Many that were involved suffer with guilt and PTSD. Some deeply regret the things they saw, and did, for the cause. All an inquiry does for these people is open wounds and messes their head up even more. The victims families have their raw emotions and wounds opened up even more by them. Blame and justice don't heal pain.
The majority of people in the North want peace now, and that is a good thing. These inquiries cost a lot of money, and open more wounds than heal them in my opinion.
For example, David Cameron apologising for the Para's killing on Bloody Sunday did not really heal anyone's pain. We all know it was wrong. An enquiry doesn't right that wrong.
Yes, the British Army, B Specials, UDA, UVF, RUC; did torture. But so did the IRA, PIRA, etc.
In war very bad things happen, and the Troubles and what the British Army did were no different to any war.
But Ashdown talking about it is pointless at this stage. The war is over now.

The quest for the truth should never end IMO. And I lived in all 3 places and know people on both sides.
They are not afraid of pain and want the truth regardless of cost.

Fratton Fred

R P McMurphy wrote: »

The way forward was always a truth and reconciliation process but this was never going to be accepted given the depths the British army sank to in the dirty war

The only reason Sinn Fein keep banging on about a truth and reconciliation process, is because they know the British government will never agree to it.

Do you really think Gerry wants all the skeletons to come out of the cupboard?

MrRolex

R P McMurphy wrote: »

You are very wrong on the significance of the bloody Sunday enquiry. On what basis are you saying that there was no point to it?

You attitude of just forget and move on is simplistic nonsense as it is almost two decades on from the final IRA ceasefire and in some respects none of the divisions have healed at all. The way forward was always a truth and reconciliation process but this was never going to be accepted given the depths the British army sank to in the dirty war

The basis is; no Para has ever been tried and convicted for Bloody Sunday, nor will they be.
So the inquiry had no point. Nothing has changed.
After war is peace. Time is a great healer. Fact (on both counts).
Talking about it after doesn't speed up time.

R P McMurphy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The only reason Sinn Fein keep banging on about a truth and reconciliation process, is because they know the British government will never agree to it.

Do you really think Gerry wants all the skeletons to come out of the cupboard?

And why wouldn't the British government agree to it in your opinion?

As for Gerry, he will be gone from political life in a year or two so I would say GE would not be bothered. Most allegations have been in the public domain for a considerable period of time regardless

Fratton Fred

R P McMurphy wrote: »

And why wouldn't the British government agree to it in your opinion?

As for Gerry, he will be gone from political life in a year or two so I would say GE would not be bothered. Most allegations have been in the public domain for a considerable period of time regardless

because it will mean the present day government being hung for something that happened long before their watch.

Sinn Fein loves to idolise and make martyrs of people. If it came out that those martyrs or idols were responsible for some of the henous acts carried out by the IRA, it be hurt their credibility.

donegaLroad

Feisar wrote: »

To quote the title: "The British army used torture in Northern Ireland."

Question: Why wouldn't they?

human rights violation...... torture was used on people who had been interned without trial. (whether or not you agree that guilty people should be tortured)

FTA69

Fratton Fred wrote: »

because it will mean the present day government being hung for something that happened long before their watch.

Sinn Fein loves to idolise and make martyrs of people. If it came out that those martyrs or idols were responsible for some of the henous acts carried out by the IRA, it be hurt their credibility.

Yup. Adams is trying to build a party in the south and the last thing he or SF want is full disclosure about the stuff he and others got up to during what was a very dirty conflict. Likewise the British state is never going to publically admit to colliding with Loyalists and colluding in bombings and shootings in another sovereign state amongst others.

Time will go on, people will die off and inertia has set in. Unfortunately the Irish people will never get the disclosure or truth they deserve. As the saying goes: "the first casualty of any war is the truth."

DanielODonnell

People of a unionist or blue shirt heritage always just throw the "sure the IRA murdered people" card on the table, terror groups and the army can't be compared, the army were supposed to be neutral but it was never going to work out that way given how the English have treated aboriginals throughout history.

When the British government had to apologise for bloody sunday the English were saying why should they have to apologise when the IRA haven't apologised. Who was meant to apologise on behalf of the IRA? They weren't supported by any governments.

FTA69

The IRA actually did make a formal apology for all non-combatants killed during the war. Not that it probably means f*ck all to anyone affected but it was a positive step nonetheless I'd say.

R P McMurphy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

because it will mean the present day government being hung for something that happened long before their watch.

Sinn Fein loves to idolise and make martyrs of people. If it came out that those martyrs or idols were responsible for some of the henous acts carried out by the IRA, it be hurt their credibility.

I don't think that matters much anymore. Most of the backgrounds of the well known IRA figures would be common knowledge, at least locally. I can't think of very many cases where this would apply, except in the case of Gerry Adams himself when serving as a TD.

FTA69

R P McMurphy wrote: »

I don't think that matters much anymore. Most of the backgrounds of the well known IRA figures would be common knowledge, at least locally. I can't think of very many cases where this would apply, except in the case of Gerry Adams himself when serving as a TD.

I can. Likewise, Sinn Fein often call for a South African-style truth and reconciliation committee which would involve people actually going into gory details about how they shot people, killed people and disposed of bodies and the like. There's a big difference between certain politicians admitting they were in the IRA and doing "stuff" and the bloody details of that "stuff" being laid bare in front of grieving and angry families. It'd be a nightmare for everyone.

Besides, the Brits will never agree to it anyway so it's all academic. They won at the end of the day so all that sort of stuff is done and dusted at the end of the day. It took them nearly 40 years to admit massacring demonstrators in broad daylight in front of TV cameras, never mind the nitty gritty about collusion etc.

Fratton Fred

R P McMurphy wrote: »

I don't think that matters much anymore. Most of the backgrounds of the well known IRA figures would be common knowledge, at least locally. I can't think of very many cases where this would apply, except in the case of Gerry Adams himself when serving as a TD.

I'll give you an example.

Young IRA member shot dead by the British Army, his memory gets turned in to an innocent martyr, murdered by the blood thirsty Brits blah blah blah, eventually gets a GAA team and a children's playground names after him.

Truth and reconciliation process uncovers that he did, in fact, shoot an unarmed innocent mother of eight in the back of the head whilst she was tied to a chair.

totes embarrassing for the shinners

SEPT 23 1989

I remember a couple of soldiers being murdered at a funeral on live TV

steddyeddy

FTA69 wrote: »

The IRA actually did make a formal apology for all non-combatants killed during the war. Not that it probably means f*ck all to anyone affected but it was a positive step nonetheless I'd say.

They certainly should do. My interest is in the truth. I think that within reason we should aim to disclose if it helps bring peace to the victims.