Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

01-02-2017 11:53PM

I went on PCP because the monthly payments were a lot less than regular finance, and because I did not intend to keep the Leaf.

With fuel savings , maintenance and having work charging and some free public charging it isn't big money to drive the highest spec Leaf. And if the car is worth 5 K at the end I couldn't care less, not my problem. Indeed I might not have a lot to go towards the next car with a 12,500 GFMV but I did not get PCP thinking I would.

GFMV seems to be much lower now and might not make PCP worth it and maybe that's the idea, to steer people away from PCP into regular finance and let the owner take all the risk, but with a GFMV so low now the buyer is taking most of the risk anyway , you're left with 5 K balloon but you're paying a lot more PM so you're paying for most of the car at that stage and that's not the idea of PCP the idea is to keep you coming back and payy as little as possible by paying only for the mileage you use , so my guess is Nissan are deliberately trying to kill PCP or Irish dealers in general. I don't really know how PCP is fairing for other brands/ models.

However, the plus is that you will most definitely see a good bit more back at the end because there's no way a 3 year old leaf will be worth as little as 5,500 Euro's after 3 years even with 90,000-100,000 kms. Yes I could be wrong but judging by todays prices it would be highly unlikely.

Water John · 01-02-2017 11:53PM

Hope any of you were not waiting for an Ioniq up on these loads. Posted on a farming thread.

OH was on red cow interchange at 6am this morning, there were 2 loaded artic car transporters racing each other Oh pulled over and let them at it, one of them stalled in the middle of the road, so so dangerous. Imagine the value of the cars on the 2 transporters to be at that messing

peposhi · 01-02-2017 11:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh I suppose the other reason is my lease is up in 2018. I think I'd be mad to change now anyway.

Well, you seen the offer I got. Yours would not be much different even though you got an SVE.
My hands are still itchy and my heart says - go and get it... But my brain (my Other Half) says figures are not right for us lol...
So, we shall see...
Did 200km in the Leaf today. Luckily a hotel by the trade show I went to has own SCP so I parked and charged the car while doing my stuff. I did not need to go to FCP on the way back. With the Iq it would have been a straight forward trip with no need of any CPs.

02-02-2017 12:09AM

Oh yes higher spec isn't worth a lot at the end of the day just easier to sell.

My heart and head says no because I can wait to see what the next year brings, if Leaf II is coming for 2018 it should be announced by September, October. And maybe by then Hyundai will have more electrics or more range spec in the Ioniq.

unkel · 02-02-2017 12:29AM

There's no doubt that the longer you wait in this EV game, the better car you're going to get. If you're going to wait that long (buying sometime in 2018), would you not aim for a Model 3 though instead of Ioniq / Leaf 2? It will be a lot more expensive, but it will also be a car that's a serious level up foremost in terms of range, but probably also in prestige / quality

KCross · 02-02-2017 12:37AM

unkel wrote: »

There's no doubt that the longer you wait in this EV game, the better car you're going to get. If you're going to wait that long (buying sometime in 2018), would you not aim for a Model 3 though instead of Ioniq / Leaf 2? It will be a lot more expensive, but it will also be a car that's a serious level up foremost in terms of range, but probably also in prestige / quality

Unless you have a deposit already down from round 1 you won't get a model 3 until 2020+

unkel · 02-02-2017 12:42AM

Really? The Tesla website says "Production begins mid 2017.
Delivery estimate for new reservations is mid 2018 or later."

Villain · 02-02-2017 12:43AM

unkel wrote: »

Yeah it would be mad to break your lease. That's one of the bad points about PCP, you completely lose all flexibility. It's a personal thing, but I'd rather drive a banger for 3 or 4 years, save enough money to buy a new car with cash and form then on, just keep buying new cars with cash and spending less per month than you would in the same car on PCP. Forever. With your flexibility intact.

Actually the half rule can be a good choice, depends on your situation but it isn't always mad to break the PCP deal

KCross · 02-02-2017 12:47AM

unkel wrote: »

Really? The Tesla website says "Production begins mid 2017.
Delivery estimate for new reservations is mid 2018 or later."

They have 500k deposits and no car yet produced. Not a chance they will build all those by 2019. Tesla consistently under delivers on its orders.

bk · 02-02-2017 12:50AM

unkel wrote: »

Really? The Tesla website says "Production begins mid 2017.
Delivery estimate for new reservations is mid 2018 or later."

Over 400,000 pre-orders by now. I really don't see them being able to build 400,000 cars in 18 months! I'd love to be proven wrong, but I doubt it.

unkel · 02-02-2017 12:55AM

Though now that the Donald and Elon are pals, I guess a good few lefties will want their deposit back

02-02-2017 11:23AM

unkel wrote: »

There's no doubt that the longer you wait in this EV game, the better car you're going to get. If you're going to wait that long (buying sometime in 2018), would you not aim for a Model 3 though instead of Ioniq / Leaf 2? It will be a lot more expensive, but it will also be a car that's a serious level up foremost in terms of range, but probably also in prestige / quality

There's no way the Model 3 will be available by next January.

I'd say it work out over 40 K with a decent spec and truth be told the Irish spec will probably be a bit low.

I'll wait to see what's around in 2018.

grogi · 02-02-2017 11:47AM

unkel wrote: »

Really? The Tesla website says "Production begins mid 2017.
Delivery estimate for new reservations is mid 2018 or later."

Yeah... Musk is known for promising very ambitious deadlines...

Flying the reconditioned Falcon9 booster was planned for June last year. ATM it is scheduled for March, but who knows? :]

unkel · 02-02-2017 12:22PM

Actually makes me feel a bit better about my own purchase that the Model 3 won't be around for another few years

For the sake of progress of EV, it can't come quick enough though. Tesla has done more for the positive perception of EV than any other make, but a few very expensive model S cars around is nowhere near enough to convince the general public.

boardzz · 02-02-2017 12:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There's no way the Model 3 will be available by next January.

I'd say it work out over 40 K with a decent spec and truth be told the Irish spec will probably be a bit low.

I'll wait to see what's around in 2018.

Irish spec? It's a worldwide standard vehicle.

listermint · 02-02-2017 12:59PM

bk wrote: »

If that is the case, why aren't people buying EV's like the Leaf so already? Because they already have more then enough range to do the Irish average daily commute of 17km

Yet EV's make up just 0.5% of car sales!

No the reality is most people do do at least one, if not a few, medium distance trips a year, weekends away in Galway, etc. Visit the granny, etc.

Even if they don't do it, they still want the capability of doing it. After all their crappy Diesel can already do it, why should they compromise?

The reality is when you tell most people that the real world range of the Leaf is about 100 miles, they burst out laughing at you and tell you there is no way their paying 25k for a car that can't go more then a 100 miles. You can tell them all you want about average daily commutes, but you can already see their eyes glaze over as they have lost all interest.

I could be wrong, but I do think that when you can tell them that you can easily do 200 miles and almost a full charge in 20 minutes, I think they will be a lot more interested.

Mostly aerodynamics. The Leaf, Zoe and i3 are all relatively upright, boxy cars, with pretty terrible aerodynamics, which is obviously bad for EV's

You have to wonder why they would choose to do that? It almost feels like they are traditional car makers who aren't really interested in making a real competitive and successful EV that god help them might actually outsell their more profitable Diesel cars!

Tesla takes a completely different approach, sleek, sporty and aerodynamic cars that result in low drag and thus much greater battery efficiency.

You are also seeing a bit of this From Hyundai with the Ioniq, but they also made other different trade offs that damage it's potential to be a great EV.

Quite simple.

They don't know about them.

Nothing more nothing less.its not about their distances the stats can't stack up that most people are driving coast to coast or even close.

People won't buy what they don't know it really is that simple. Coupled with the abysmal sales knowledge in the dealership networks here of EVs these guys are trained to push diesel or push the easiest sell to get commission...You can't blame them but they have as bad knowledge on these models as the average Joe on the street.

02-02-2017 01:46PM

boardzz wrote: »

Irish spec? It's a worldwide standard vehicle.

That might not be the case when it arrives in Ireland ? cars have been known to get less kit here.

They could remove kit to keep the base price tot hat magic 35-40 K ?

grogi · 02-02-2017 01:46PM

listermint wrote: »

People won't buy what they don't know it really is that simple. Coupled with the abysmal sales knowledge in the dealership networks here of EVs these guys are trained to push diesel or push the easiest sell to get commission...You can't blame them but they have as bad knowledge on these models as the average Joe on the street.

That's exactly what I am doing - blame the salesman. It is his job to know what he sells in the end.

bk · 02-02-2017 02:19PM

listermint wrote: »

They don't know about them.

It really isn't the case. I tell lots of people about EV's. First they look very interested (low running costs, great Torque, etc.), but then they ask about the range, when I tell them I can see their interest die in their eyes straight away.

People just don't want to compromise and frankly it is naive for EV fans to expect them to compromise.

Tesla has it right, EV's need big range and fast charging to make them acceptable to the general public.

KCross · 02-02-2017 02:26PM

bk wrote: »

It really isn't the case. I tell lots of people about EV's. First they look very interested (low running costs, great Torque, etc.), but then they ask about the range, when I tell them I can see their interest die in their eyes straight away.

Are these the same people you tell that it normally takes 5hrs to drive from Cork to Dublin in an EV!

Maybe we need someone else to talk to your friends!

bk wrote: »

People just don't want to compromise and frankly it is naive for EV fans to expect them to compromise.

Tesla has it right, EV's need big range and fast charging to make them acceptable to the general public.

I agree.

positron · 02-02-2017 02:43PM

There is no denying the fact that fossil files have approximately 13 times more energy density compared to current battery technology for the volume of fuel/cell, and not to mention you can refuel fossil fuel in minutes compared to battery in 30-60 minutes that too with limited infrastructure at the moment. Its true that turning fossil fuel into forward momentum takes more components, maintenance and efficiencies lost etc but still its many times more 'capable' than current battery technology.

I read recently that EU has agreed on the wireless charging specifications / standard, hopefully that technology will pick up speed and we could perhaps have a charging strip installed into the drive way or parking spaces rather than messing around with cables, connectors etc. Not sure if wireless charging is really feasible for EVs but even if it is, its probably too late for next vesion of Ioniq.

grogi · 02-02-2017 02:48PM

bk wrote: »

Tesla has it right, EV's need big range and fast charging to make them acceptable to the general public.

I don't see Teslas driving all over the place. Why? Because at Tesla's price point all the financial benefits evaporate... Range costs. A lot.

On the other hand we are dealing with human being and people have their limitation. It is difficult to realise how much range one really needs on daily basis.

So until the range is cheap (sooner or later) or people change (never) we will not see the massive adoption. Right now we're not there yet...

KCross · 02-02-2017 02:50PM

listermint wrote: »

Quite simple.

They don't know about them.

Nothing more nothing less.its not about their distances the stats can't stack up that most people are driving coast to coast or even close.

People won't buy what they don't know it really is that simple. Coupled with the abysmal sales knowledge in the dealership networks here of EVs these guys are trained to push diesel or push the easiest sell to get commission...You can't blame them but they have as bad knowledge on these models as the average Joe on the street.

To be fair, I dont think its that simple.

Its a whole range of issues....

Fear of the unknown. Education is required
Depreciation
Range
Lack of choice
Manufacturers not pushing it because they dont want to cannibalise their ICE sales
Government policy. This is a big one.
Ability to install an EVSE (apartments etc)

Clearly the current EV's are ideally suited to a particular set of circumstances and the uptake should be much much better even with todays EV's but they still arent good enough for mass adoption.

Current EV's are mainly suited to 2 car households where the daily commute is below 100km. The 2nd car does the long journeys. If you fit this cohort its a no brainer and the savings are quite significant with little or no downsides.

If you are a one car household its alot more complicated. Even if you drive less than 100km a day, what do you do when you want to go home at weekends... people want to do that without stopping.

grogi · 02-02-2017 02:53PM

KCross wrote: »

If you are a one car household its alot more complicated. Even if you drive less than 100km a day, what do you do when you want to go home at weekends... people want to do that without stopping.

The essential question - how often? I might, from time to time, need to move a fridge... But I am not driving a pickup-truck for that occasion.

Occasional trips like that can be done with either a rental vehicle. Even better if the manufacturer had a program where you could borrow an ICE for a few days when you really need range. AFAIK BMW does something like that with i3...

listermint · 02-02-2017 02:57PM

KCross wrote: »

Are these the same people you tell that it normally takes 5hrs to drive from Cork to Dublin in an EV!
Maybe we need someone else to talk to your friends!

I agree.

Tell who? People in cork that work in Dublin?

I bet if you asked these people what their weekly mileage is they haven't a breeze

Range at this point in time is a pony of an excuse I'm sorry but majority mileage is nowhere near yours

KCross · 02-02-2017 03:00PM

grogi wrote: »

The essential question - how often? I might, from time to time, need to move a fridge... But I am not driving a pickup-truck for that occasion.

Occasional trips like that can be done with either a rental vehicle. Even better if the manufacturer had a program where you could borrow an ICE for a few days when you really need range. AFAIK BMW does something like that with i3...

Nissan do that in the UK, I think.
But like bk says... thats a compromise people are not willing to make.

What about when I decide to take a long trip at short notice.... how do I deal with that. Hiring a car is not a serious alternative. I wouldnt do it and I dont think "we" should expect the wider population to do it.

To answer your "how often" question.... Im sure there are 10's of thousands of people who travel home at weekends. It could be every weekend for lots of people. I dont have stats on it, obviously.

The thing is, the argument wont be won on stats or telling people they are wrong.... perception is reality and they wont be mass EV adoption until the range and the government policy are in place.

listermint · 02-02-2017 03:01PM

It stands to reason from the posts here most of you guys have rural origins.based on what you've said so far.

I agree ev won't fit.but the majority of the country doesn't live in rural ireland or travel there regularly.and if they do most have 2 cars.

The guts of the current problem is education and bad sales pushes.i don't see any other issue.

listermint · 02-02-2017 03:03PM

KCross wrote: »

Nissan do that in the UK, I think.
But like bk says... thats a compromise people are not willing to make.

What about when I decide to take a long trip at short notice.... how do I deal with that. Hiring a car is not a serious alternative. I wouldnt do it and I dont think "we" should expect the wider population to do it.

To answer your "how often" question.... Im sure there are 10's of thousands of people who travel home at weekends. It could be every weekend for lots of people. I dont have stats on it, obviously.

The thing is, the argument wont be won on stats or telling people they are wrong.... perception is reality and they wont be mass EV adoption until the range and the government policy are in place.

Home is the city people live in for most people.you pair are coming at this from a perspective that everyone came up to Leinster from everywhere else.

As stated average mileage is not yours.

KCross · 02-02-2017 03:03PM

listermint wrote: »

Tell who? People in cork that work in Dublin?

I bet if you asked these people what their weekly mileage is they haven't a breeze

Range at this point in time is a pony of an excuse I'm sorry but majority mileage is nowhere near yours

Sorry, that was an in-joke with bk from another thread. Disregard it.
He was saying that he wasnt surprised it took someone 5hrs to travel from Cork-Dublin in an EV(they were driving at 80kmh! :rolleyes:).

I've done the trip and it takes less than 3.5hrs and I was just making a joke about it here.

My daily commute is less than 100km so the Leaf does me fine.

KCross · 02-02-2017 03:11PM

listermint wrote: »

Home is the city people live in for most people.you pair are coming at this from a perspective that everyone came up to Leinster from everywhere else.

As stated average mileage is not yours.

Not at all. Just to be clear, I drive an EV. Getting the impression you think Im anti EV.... nothing of the sort.

Im just trying to explain why I, and others, believe EV uptake has been abysmally slow.

If it is was a pure education thing the government would have put a few ads on the TV..... its way too simplistic to say educate the population and we'll have mass EV adoption.

I agree that loads of city dwellers should be driving EV right now and education would fix some of those but thats not going to give you mass adoption.

Its a combination of all the things I listed.... range, government policy, education etc etc.

Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

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