Are the left being brainwashed by Islam?? - Mod warning in OP

DeadHand wrote: »

So they protested an act before it even took place. Amazing. Those are some remarkably prescient protester.

Not really. They have the gift of literacy, or at worst, recall of broadcast media.

DeadHand wrote: »

In any case, chanting Islamic battlecrys.

Which bit of it is the battlecry then?

Help!!!! wrote: »

So then Pakistan, Bangladesh etc should have been banned too if its against Muslims or Islam

Watch the video posted early, they were looking for a legal way to get away with the ban, and in the case of Pakistan, they could kiss good bye there "secret" drone bases, and in the case of Saudia Arabia, Donald business interests would be obliterated by them.

They are very clear in that its a ban on Muslims. This whole defense of Trump is bizarre, he clearly states his intent, and we have legions of people falling over themselves to claim otherwise. Its gas lighting on a massive scale imho.

alastair wrote: »

Which bit of it is the battlecry then?

It's been heard often enough before a lot of Europeans have died lately, sadly.

alastair wrote: »

Not really. They have the gift of literacy, or at worst, recall of broadcast media.

The "women's marches" took place before the temporary travel restrictions.

I wonder how such protests (complete with vagina hats) would have went down in any of the blacklisted "states".

I wonder what the death toll would be.

DeadHand wrote: »

The "women's marches" took place before the temporary travel restrictions.

I wonder how such protests (complete with vagina hats) would have went down in any of the blacklisted "states".

I wonder what the death toll would be.

Females In The Middle East Show Solidarity With The Women’s March


Marches happened in one of those countries (didn't bother looking much further, as 1 country is enough to prove you wrong). Seriously, 2 seconds on Google, and you would know this.

Still, when you defense is well look at those guys over there, you know you haven't a leg to stand on.

alastair wrote: »

And after the guy who said he would ban all Muslims entering the country was elected.

I'm at a loss as to why the women's marches need scare quotes as well.

You specified that the marches were against the act- they weren't.

They were anti-Trump marches (which are fine as long as they don't get violent- as the anti-Trump/anti- democracy crowd tend to do) painted as "women's marches". They do not represent all women- millions of whom voted for Trump.

Given the fact many of their number were waving tampons at their imaginary foes while dressed as genitalia- I think many didn't know exactly what they were protesting about or, indeed, what they were doing.

A lot of mental illness on display at those things as there often is at gatherings of "liberals".

alastair wrote: »

I didn't catch that - which bit is the battlecry?

It's a battlecry, among other things.

DeadHand wrote: »

You specified that the marches were against the act- they weren't.

They clearly were. If in doubt - ready the placards.

DeadHand wrote: »

Protests of a more modest character.

Had the same pagentry (pussy hats, etc.) been on display there as in the US the batons would have been out sharpish. Which was my point.

Different cultures express themselves differently. Nonetheless, there were protests.

FA Hayek wrote: »

Pro-Life women were not allowed to march. It was a woman's march so long as you had certain political views, if you were a woman and did not share those views then you were not allowed to march. Sounds quite intolerant to me.

The marches platform was a pro choice one...... Sure you may as well complain that the march didn't allow Trump supporters.

Why the hell would you have people who are against it, at the march? Your line of argument makes 0 sense, and your claims of intolerance on that basis is utterly bizarre.

Seriously, this is an utterly bizarre statement to make. Why would they have people who oppose there platform at the march? How the hell is that intolerant?

Here is an excerpt from there platform:

Womens March platform

---

We believe in Reproductive Freedom. We do not accept any federal, state or local rollbacks, cuts or restrictions on our ability to access quality reproductive healthcare services, birth control, HIV/AIDS care and prevention, or medically accurate sexuality education. This means open access to safe, legal,
affordable abortion and birth control for all people, regardless of income, location or education. We understand that we can only have reproductive justice when reproductive health care is accessible to all
people regardless of income, location or education

---

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Ok, that's new. Have you something to support this?

Google's not your friend.:(

Walter H Price wrote: »

But how can you support people who support an ideology that at it's best criminalizes your'e sexual orientation and at worse punishes this crime with public floggings and execution.

Again, I don't support the religion or the ideology and if I was ever in a discussion about Islam I would be very open about my dislike for it. I don't support Islam but equally I don't support discrimination, stereotypes etc. More and more Muslims are becoming an oppressed group, discriminated against and subject to unfair stereotypes. Knowing what I know about human nature, I know these things will only make Muslims more stead fast in their beliefs and create more extremism.

Walter H Price wrote: »

As i said previous , the only Muslims i have ever found to be reasonable rational people are ex-Muslims or those looking for a way out. The guys i know in the UK there great to go watch a football match with but the way they talk about women , white girls in particular is disturbing to be honest goes far beyond the usual misogyny you get from a blokey chat at the football, i stopped meeting up with them after some comments they made around the Rochdale abuse case in the UK.

That's not been my experience with Muslims. Full disclosure I was in a significant relationship with a Muslim man. It didn't work out for many reasons and he had some views that I strongly disagreed with but genuinely he was a great person.

He regularly donated blood (before and after we were in a sexual relationship) he gave to charity, he was empathetic, kind, unjudmental and treated everyone with respect regardless of their faith, sex, race. (Although admittedly he was jaded when it came to Jews because of what is happening in Palestine)

I know you might be tempted to say he was not as devout as most muslims given he was in a relationship with a gay atheist. But he by far the most religious person I knew. Fasted during Ramadan, prayed everyday, only ate halal, never drank an dtruly believed in Allah and the word of the Quaran. He struggled with his relationship with me, even believed he would spend time in hell for it.

He also believed many of the more extreme views we associate with Islam were people misinterpreting the quran. He also knew people who turned to extremism were usually people who were marginalised, disenfranchised or subject to extreme conditions.

Durning one of out many debates he once said to me "what would you do your family, your friends, your village was destroyed and all you had left was your faith" It that situation its all too easy to turn to an extremist group. Though I understand it less, its also equally true of groups marginalised in the West, who don't feel ingratiated, excepted and live in relative poverty.

Walter H Price wrote: »

would you equaly defend devout catholics who ofen take a bit of ridcule or or challenged on the actions of their church , an iona institute support or one of their ilk ? In my experience Muslims dont want to come to the west and pratice wester values unless they have left or are trying to leave their religion , they want halal meat , they want faith based schools , they want time off work etc.. to pray , they dont want to pay interest on loans a friend of mine works in a bank he has revived some level of abuse from Muslims over this issue, they don't want to deal with women in a work environment, we had muslim guys in college refuse to work with girls , we have had Muslim customers refuse to speak with female call agents in our call center. This is far beyond what even the most devout of Catholics look for.

I would never defend Catholic, protestant, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, New age etc beliefs. I dont believe in any of them. I would also never support any laws that crossed the line between Church and state. I would however defend any of these groups if i felt they were being unfairly discriminated against

In reference to Muslim beliefs regarding women my ex would have said that was a combination of misinterpretation of the quaran and cultural values. That was not typical of his muslim community. But he was North African. Anyway he happily went to the pub (not drinking) with me on several occasions and hung around with my mostly female friends. Though he would not shake their hands. He preferred a kiss on the cheek as a greeting (living in France too long)

Walter H Price wrote: »

I fully agree with you i would never jump to judge people based on the color of their skin or where they are from , i met a really nice girl from Saudi last year in college who was afraid to return to her country because of the oppression and violence twords women there , she has since claimed asylum here a number of us in the class helped her do this. But to be honest if someone told me they were a devout Muslim or expressed Islamic views in a conversation that would be me pretty much done with them.

I see sense in Trumps ban in that it is not permanent and it will allow time for tougher screening of people coming from those countries, Germany and France took the opposite approach they have ended up with an increased risk of terrorism and crime as well as massive unemployment and poverty among the migrants who have arrived, many of whom are not refugees.

Kind of referring to what I said above I believe what Trump has done will not resolve the extremist problem but will only exhasterbate it. He can enforce a travel ban on muslims entering into American but how is that going to make American muslims feel. These kind of actions will only cause Muslims in America to feel more marginalised and cause more extremism. Sure I believe immigration needs to be done carefully and responsibly, if only for the protection of immigrants themselves but his outright ban was unnecessary and frankly damaging.