Dairy chit chat II

visatorro · 31-01-2017 06:31AM

ted_182 wrote: »

Using mayo health care topical iodine here for the last two years and find it excellent, no cleanings held, basically an iodine pour; use it three weeks pre calving and three days per calving but even three days would make a difference, sixty quid for 84 cows

+1

Keepgrowing · 31-01-2017 09:08AM

April callers seperated and being dried off after milking.

Remaining millers heading out to grass for a few hours. It rained a lot last night so it'll be a play it by ear exercise.

pedigree 6 · 31-01-2017 09:19AM

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Do some cows fit the face of the ideal animal more than others, or it's who sets the criteria.

The big emphasis is still on fertility.
When you go over 365 CI you're basically on a year round job and matching your system to the cow. Instead of the other way round.

freedominacup · 31-01-2017 10:11AM

pedigree 6 wrote: »

The big emphasis is still on fertility.
When you go over 365 CI you're basically on a year round job and matching your system to the cow. Instead of the other way round.

Why year round??

mahoney_j · 31-01-2017 10:17AM

jaymla627 wrote: »

I reckon where your at the top end of the scale going for/ already achieving 600kgs milk solids plus, going with the latest flashy high ebi genomic sons year on year would disadvantage a herd more then anything....
Was at a talk by the head Dovea guy and he himself admitted the chasing of higher and higher ebi bulls and the resultant massive turnover of bulls as a result is just leading to a hamster-wheel effect, that has to level off sometime....
Its also a extremely costly business model irish ai companies are following as bulls never get a chance to establish themselves and make a mark on herds for years to come unless they are seen as exceptional for ebi and in the top 10 range, the figure he gave was a run of the mill bull usually had 6000 doses of semen collected and then he was a happy meal...

Explain please your first paragraph .whilst not disagreeing with u and free in ebi .it is working extremely well to those who embrace it .i certainly ain't chasing ebi ,I'm chasing increased fertility ,more milk solids ,more milk .ebi,genomics and Bulls are improving year on year .most of Bulls im using are very high ebi based on criteria I set whilst picking them ,not the highest tho. Some high ebi bulls I wouldn't touch with a barge pole

pedigree 6 · 31-01-2017 10:25AM

freedominacup wrote: »

Why year round??

Year round milking and year round calving.
Basically not having everything calved in 10 weeks.

But that's not to say which is the most profitable as the cow will be giving higher solid milk for longer than a 365 cow and the 40 cent/litre winter contracts.

But money is not everything.
I'll tell myself that.:D

jaymla627 · 31-01-2017 10:39AM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Explain please your first paragraph .whilst not disagreeing with u and free in ebi .it is working extremely well to those who embrace it .i certainly ain't chasing ebi ,I'm chasing increased fertility ,more milk solids ,more milk .ebi,genomics and Bulls are improving year on year .most of Bulls im using are very high ebi based on criteria I set whilst picking them ,not the highest tho. Some high ebi bulls I wouldn't touch with a barge pole

Pretty simple really if you look outside of Ireland their is a vast selection of daughter proven bulls with 1000s of milking daughters in their proofs that tick all the boxes for fertility/type/solids that will give you a 600kgs ms plus replacement heifer that will suit a grass-based system.....
Why is their now a herd mentality been built up that unless your going with new genomic bulls year on year your somehow handicapping the future genetics of your herd, for all the plaudits around ebi the genetic gain the national herd has achieved isnt adding up with the numbers when you go through the average nationally on co-op preformances reports, good example in Glanbia is the average pr for 2016 is lower then 2015 .
Why isnt this figure climbing considering the extra % of high ebi 1st/2nd lactation "high solids" cows that would be in-place due to herds expanding

whelan2 · 31-01-2017 10:48AM

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Year round milking and year round calving.
Basically not having everything calved in 10 weeks.

But that's not to say which is the most profitable as the cow will be giving higher solid milk for longer than a 365 cow and the 40 cent/litre winter contracts.

But money is not everything.
I'll tell myself that.:D

2 set groups for calving. Milk the minimum amount to only fill your liquid quota in the winter. Milking this last few week's took 45 minutes from start to finish. Edited to say 389 day calving interval here so they are not milking much longer than an all spring herd.

Mooooo · 31-01-2017 10:52AM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Pretty simple really if you look outside of Ireland their is a vast selection of daughter proven bulls with 1000s of milking daughters in their proofs that tick all the boxes for fertility/type/solids that will give you a 600kgs ms plus replacement heifer that will suit a grass-based system.....
Why is their now a herd mentality been built up that unless your going with new genomic bulls year on year your somehow handicapping the future genetics of your herd, for all the plaudits around ebi the genetic gain the national herd has achieved isnt adding up with the numbers when you go through the average nationally on co-op preformances reports, good example in Glanbia is the average pr for 2016 is lower then 2015 .
Why isnt this figure climbing considering the extra % of high ebi 1st/2nd lactation "high solids" cows that would be in-place due to herds expanding

You'd have to look a over a longer period than a year, the weather alone in April and may hit my solids and are down on the previous year. 10 years would be more apt.

Injuryprone · 31-01-2017 11:06AM

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I milked the whole month of November in 2015.
Last year I dried off way too early in November.
That's the big difference there. Plus i'm calving later this spring than I thought I would.
Vaccinations given too late to the bull last year.
But I've started calving today with a cow calving a Friesian heifer calf.

I may get a jersey bull.:D

From looking at your report, it would seem that maybe your dryoff dates didn't go through properly. If, for example, you milked 47 for the first half of the month and 0 for the second half, I'd expect the avg cow numbers for the month to be 24, not 47. That should lead to a rise in the 9.3/0.8 figures although now that I've the calculator out, I can't figure out where the 0.8 comes from(would've thought it was 1051/47/30) so I'm getting confused!

Milking cow nos for Dec should definitely be 0 in that box imo.
Also 1.45 is not the avg of the numbers above it. It would seem that 1 of the zeros has been counted.

You're right when you say that the difference between 1.45 and 1.3 is due to the 'dry cow effect'. Just to remember that most of the dry cows are not cull cows, but in calf cows. Blanket drying off cows would probably add to this'effect'.

Injuryprone · 31-01-2017 11:09AM

ozil10 wrote: »

Cheers Ted
I'm using the iodine tabs from mayo health care in the water so they should be of some benefit.
I'll give the vet a buzz in the morning and see what he says.
Cows are calving 5 or 6 days early as well but having three out of ten so far is abit concerning as it affects their fertility later on in the year

If I remember correctly, selenium is a big one to watch out for when it comes to retained afterbirths

mahoney_j · 31-01-2017 11:12AM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Pretty simple really if you look outside of Ireland their is a vast selection of daughter proven bulls with 1000s of milking daughters in their proofs that tick all the boxes for fertility/type/solids that will give you a 600kgs ms plus replacement heifer that will suit a grass-based system.....
Why is their now a herd mentality been built up that unless your going with new genomic bulls year on year your somehow handicapping the future genetics of your herd, for all the plaudits around ebi the genetic gain the national herd has achieved isnt adding up with the numbers when you go through the average nationally on co-op preformances reports, good example in Glanbia is the average pr for 2016 is lower then 2015 .
Why isnt this figure climbing considering the extra % of high ebi 1st/2nd lactation "high solids" cows that would be in-place due to herds expanding

Outside of Ireland a lot more than grass going in ,a lot more meal ,maize .tmr etc etc .ebi is for Ireland to deluever fertile cows that produce a large chunk of there milk from grass ..you speak of 600 kg ms herds .there is a very small miniority producing those figures ,equally so 500 kg plus .iirc you milk all year round ,what's your 6 week in calf rate ,how long is your breeding season ,calving interval for herd ??

freedominacup · 31-01-2017 11:41AM

Mooooo wrote: »

You'd have to look a over a longer period than a year, the weather alone in April and may hit my solids and are down on the previous year. 10 years would be more apt.

What exactly went wrong and would it have been cost effective to try to counter it?

pedigree 6 · 31-01-2017 11:48AM

Injuryprone wrote: »

From looking at your report, it would seem that maybe your dryoff dates didn't go through properly. If, for example, you milked 47 for the first half of the month and 0 for the second half, I'd expect the avg cow numbers for the month to be 24, not 47. That should lead to a rise in the 9.3/0.8 figures although now that I've the calculator out, I can't figure out where the 0.8 comes from(would've thought it was 1051/47/30) so I'm getting confused!

Milking cow nos for Dec should definitely be 0 in that box imo.
Also 1.45 is not the avg of the numbers above it. It would seem that 1 of the zeros has been counted.

You're right when you say that the difference between 1.45 and 1.3 is due to the 'dry cow effect'. Just to remember that most of the dry cows are not cull cows, but in calf cows. Blanket drying off cows would probably add to this'effect'.

No at the start of the year the cull cows were seemingly added into it.
They were cows that didn't go incalf in the time frame so we're culled and were fattened up in March April.
Eight cull cows and I dried them off at the same time as the rest of the herd.
The first cow calved on the 15/1 and the last on the 3/4.
Well I had one more cull that calved on the 24/5 but I sold her.
Thanks to my father for letting her to the bull. Otherwise she would have been gone months before.

Anyway I wonder is it worth joining herdplus or do you have to be milk recording to get the full benefit?

pedigree 6 · 31-01-2017 12:05PM

whelan2 wrote: »

2 set groups for calving. Milk the minimum amount to only fill your liquid quota in the winter. Milking this last few week's took 45 minutes from start to finish. Edited to say 389 day calving interval here so they are not milking much longer than an all spring herd.

That seems to be the ideal dairy farm situation. If a cow doesn't go incalf in end April,May,June carry her over to the autumn and try again and milk her on through the winter.
But if you want to be 100% spring calving you have to be ruthless and don't do that or carry them over till the next year.
Otherwise you end up with a calving interval of 380 -90 plus.
It wouldn't be much good having a 390 cow in a spring herd.
Calving in Feb the 1st year, March the 2nd, April the 3rd.
You can't spring block calve with those cows. Not suitable.

Mooooo · 31-01-2017 12:23PM

freedominacup wrote: »

What exactly went wrong and would it have been cost effective to try to counter it?

For me in April they were at grass for only a week the rest was in on silage due to weather, I could have managed them better inside but was under pressure myself and facilities wouldn't be great indoors for when the majority for herd are calved especially when other stock were still taking up space. That carried into may then. In terms of countering it I'm working on it with plans for more roadway for better access to drier ground and hopefully facilities to improve space for cows. Will have more maize this year in spring so if a prolonged wet spell I could stretch the rotation on dry ground and feed more maize at night to keep em at grass.

alps · 31-01-2017 12:35PM

pedigree 6 wrote: »

That seems to be the ideal dairy farm situation. If a cow doesn't go incalf in end April,May,June carry her over to the autumn and try again and milk her on through the winter.
But if you want to be 100% spring calving you have to be ruthless and don't do that or carry them over till the next year.
Otherwise you end up with a calving interval of 380 -90 plus.
It wouldn't be much good having a 390 cow in a spring herd.
Calving in Feb the 1st year, March the 2nd, April the 3rd.
You can't spring block calve with those cows. Not suitable.

I've seen it done, very profitably..

Very high production, with cows typically slipping a month each year, but the late calvers were sold every year to the UK. The price for these 3rd maybe 4th calvers was covering the cost of the heifer replacement and replacement rate was running at 25 to 30%.

Swards premowed, cows in early afternoon for a maize snack. Great attention to detail, and a massively profitable enterprise.

Many was to skin that cat

Sillycave · 31-01-2017 01:20PM

Sillycave wrote: »

Just see ICBF reports are up, just wondering what was the average for the year for milk solids per cow, just to give me indication of my cow performance, its says on mine 1.09ms/cow
Found it hard to keep protein up this year

From looking at Pedigree 6 report i realised that the ICBF report has all my cows down for Jan through to Dec (less culls along the year) as i hadn't inputted dry off dates into the ICBF.
I wonder if i did it now would they update the report?

Anyways i made a go of it myself out of curiosity and it now looks like my ms/cow is 1.39 (still poor but better than before) and litres per cow around 18.5
All on the presumption i have worked it out correctly.

How do people work out the ms/cow for the year?
Is it ms/cow x 365 days??
If so that would make mine 500kg/cow but i don't even think my poor cows are doing that?

stanflt · 31-01-2017 01:32PM

56% 1st or second lactation cows

Mooooo · 31-01-2017 01:44PM

Without the report ms/ cow is simple enough ms delivered divided by number of cows.

Keepgrowing · 31-01-2017 02:41PM

Mooooo wrote: »

Without the report ms/ cow is simple enough ms delivered divided by number of cows.

I have to laugh, milk price, milk sold, cows milked etc nobody seems to know it till icbf run a report.

Tis a bit like the latest exercise Teagasc are doing now with the ePM, working out your true cost of production. Great exercise but we all know it already it's a pity they don't quote it.

We should know every one of these figures monthly.

Keepgrowing · 31-01-2017 02:53PM

Mooooo wrote: »

Without the report ms/ cow is simple enough ms delivered divided by number of cows.

These reports make me switch off. You're correct Every piece on info on it you'll know already or should.

CI, Scc and % F&P are a all that's really relevant. Without putting figures in context it's a pissing contest. Sr, meal fed, grass grown of feed imported not mentioned and must be for context. This report should in no way be viewed as a financial performance barometer.

An irrelevant distraction is what I'd see it as

mahoney_j · 31-01-2017 03:06PM

Keepgrowing wrote: »

These reports make me switch off. You're correct Every piece on info on it you'll know already or should.

CI, Scc and % F&P are a all that's really relevant. Without putting figures in context it's a pissing contest. Sr, meal fed, grass grown of feed imported not mentioned and must be for context. This report should in no way be viewed as a financial performance barometer.

An irrelevant distraction is what I'd see it as

Totally disagree ,it's an extremely relevant report ,especially on a farm walk as it's a report of actual cow performance and actual milk and solids sold.first thing I want to see on any farm walk .banks also paying attention to it now for Liam applications

Keepgrowing · 31-01-2017 03:26PM

E

Keepgrowing · 31-01-2017 03:34PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Totally disagree ,it's an extremely relevant report ,especially on a farm walk as it's a report of actual cow performance and actual milk and solids sold.first thing I want to see on any farm walk .banks also paying attention to it now for Liam applications

It's totally irrelevant unless put in context, feed brought on to farm. It's only part of a picture. If this was presented without back up its irrelevant. That's what happening here, pissing contest

Keepgrowing · 31-01-2017 03:36PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Totally disagree ,it's an extremely relevant report ,especially on a farm walk as it's a report of actual cow performance and actual milk and solids sold.first thing I want to see on any farm walk .banks also paying attention to it now for Liam applications

If it was a pillar document for a loan application, it's fairly easily manipulated

pedigree 6 · 31-01-2017 04:20PM

There's a new entrant to dairy near me going to bottle their own milk and sell it.
Now that's courage and bravery.
Just thought I'd share that little snippet when there's such a depression in farming shown in other parts of this site.

whelan2 · 31-01-2017 07:29PM

Just wondering what do ye do with cows that have bloody milk? This cow has loads of blood cruds in it.

kowtow · 31-01-2017 07:40PM

Keepgrowing wrote: »

I have to laugh, milk price, milk sold, cows milked etc nobody seems to know it till icbf run a report.

Tis a bit like the latest exercise Teagasc are doing now with the ePM, working out your true cost of production. Great exercise but we all know it already it's a pity they don't quote it.

We should know every one of these figures monthly.

I will say one thing for the last couple of years, there does seem to be a growing recognition on twitter, in the press, and elsewhere that the cash costs only method of accounting isn't really adequate and what's more carries some serious dangers if not properly understood as a partial figure by the listener or reader.

I hope this is a trend that will continue as the industry grows up.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 31-01-2017 07:46PM

whelan2 wrote: »

Just wondering what do ye do with cows that have bloody milk? This cow has loads of blood cruds in it.

Is it just one quarter or all 4?

I would tube her for a few days in one quarter. I used just milk her as normal and feed the milk to the calves but they sometimes get an infection in that quarter so I tube for safety now.

Dairy chit chat II

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