Best Dairy bull beef breed

Future Farmer · 30-01-2017 05:28PM

I have found that Hereford breeders, not meaning to cause offence are generally a bit older and not breeding for their market: The Dairyman (woman).

Hereford breeders are:
-Not mad on polled
-Actually like big heads
-Not too bothered on gestation length

2014 figures:
http://imageshack.com/a/img921/3889/tW4x9H.png

The fact that 3 stock bulls made the top ten ped Hereford sires in 2014 of the other 7 - 3 are not for dairy cows, which leaves GZS GSQ CRP & FRZ of which only GSQ is 285 days Gestation Length with the others 286 & 287.

http://imageshack.com/a/img924/6264/TdWxFH.png

When the average Dairy gestation is 281 days.....

(Some of the AA sires round not ideal for dairy farmers/suckler maidens either!)

Bellview · 30-01-2017 06:02PM

Future Farmer wrote:

(Some of the AA sires round not ideal for dairy farmers/suckler maidens either!)

Agree...a lot of the bulls bought from show boys. Goulding and lisduff bull along with bunlahy are 3 examples of hard calvers. There was also a friars town bull who would be hard also. Any bull that does well in shows is generally a hard calver as the show boys want heavy bone

Bellview · 30-01-2017 06:04PM

Future Farmer wrote:

Hereford breeders are: -Not mad on polled -Actually like big heads -Not too bothered on gestation length

One of the polls in list is breeding a lot of horns.

whelan2 · 30-01-2017 07:24PM

Bellview wrote: »

Agree...a lot of the bulls bought from show boys. Goulding and lisduff bull along with bunlahy are 3 examples of hard calvers. There was also a friars town bull who would be hard also. Any bull that does well in shows is generally a hard calver as the show boys want heavy bone

Remember ybm? He had bang breeding and calved small calves. Which was a surprise

satstheway · 30-01-2017 11:22PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I went looking for an He cow, in calf, a few years ago and went to a few breeders and I was fairly shocked about how much emphasis they seemed to put on the bulls head.

I bought an AA cow instead and am happy out with how easy they are to calve.
They are my late calvers so I would be looking for a bull with a short gestation and easy calving to help bring the cows back in with the main bunch again. I like the He but their heads bring me out into a cold sweat.

Just when I was changing my mind from BB to HE and then this is posted. Fecking big heads.

If I could get a AA crossed with BB and HE
I would be on to a winner

Bass Reeves · 31-01-2017 02:40AM

Dairy farmers have to make up there minds. What is the beef calf worth to them. As a beef farmer I am no longer interested in AA calves. I buy stores and too many light AA are not light for age but have very slow growth rates. If I see a light AA I am no longer interested even the good 450 kg AA store will struggle to kill 340kgs ( about 650 kgs) 10 months later.

A good LM store or a middle of the road FR is a better option. I can only see the price of the AA calf continuing to fall back just no longer interested in them as a store. TBH black cattle send the shivers down my spine, there could be Jex crosses in them sh!tty AA etc in the bunch. I have noticed the dairy farmers slipping away from the LM to the AA. The Hereford breeder's know that the day they follow the AA down the road of the small calf they might as well close up shop.

The whole calf price structure is way out of sync with the beef price, something has to give. I think the Hereford will hold it value but you will have to get up at night and pull a few out. The AA price will have to really correct visavia the Hereford which is overpriced

Bellview · 31-01-2017 02:50AM

Bass Reeves wrote:

Dairy farmers have to make up there minds. What is the beef calf worth to them. As a beef farmer I am no longer interested in AA calves. I buy stores and too many light AA are not light for age but have very slow growth rates. If I see a light AA I am no longer interested even the good 450 kg AA store will struggle to kill 340kgs ( about 650 kgs) 10 months later.

Bass Reeves wrote:

A good LM store or a middle of the road FR is a better option. I can only see the price of the AA calf continuing to fall back just no longer interested in them as a store. TBH black cattle send the shivers down my spine, there could be Jex crosses in them sh!tty AA etc in the bunch. I have noticed the dairy farmers slipping away from the LM to the AA. The Hereford breeder's know that the day they follow the AA down the road of the small calf they might as well close up shop.

Bass Reeves wrote:

The whole calf price structure is way out of sync with the beef price, something has to give. I think the Hereford will hold it value but you will have to get up at night and pull a few out. The AA price will have to really correct visavia the Hereford which is overpriced

There are two issues today. One the cow that now makes up the dairy herd is a very different animal to the Bf that was there 20 years ago. The jex being a great example of this. For these cows to calve there are rubbish bulls being used
The other challenge is that meat factories believe a beef can be fulfilled from the dairy herd...which drives the problem you have called out
Speaking to a few guys that buy calves they reckon he best dairy cows are in dovea region as there are more bfr in their country as the late dermot cahill was a great supporter of bfr

Buford T. Justice XIX · 31-01-2017 02:52AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Dairy farmers have to make up there minds. What is the beef calf worth to them. As a beef farmer I am no longer interested in AA calves. I buy stores and too many light AA are not light for age but have very slow growth rates. If I see a light AA I am no longer interested even the good 450 kg AA store will struggle to kill 340kgs ( about 650 kgs) 10 months later.

A good LM store or a middle of the road FR is a better option. I can only see the price of the AA calf continuing to fall back just no longer interested in them as a store. TBH black cattle send the shivers down my spine, there could be Jex crosses in them sh!tty AA etc in the bunch. I have noticed the dairy farmers slipping away from the LM to the AA. The Hereford breeder's know that the day they follow the AA down the road of the small calf they might as well close up shop.

The whole calf price structure is way out of sync with the beef price, something has to give. I think the Hereford will hold it value but you will have to get up at night and pull a few out. The AA price will have to really correct visavia the Hereford which is overpriced

For most dairy farmers, anything other than a friesian heifer is a byproduct. The most important thing is to get the cow milking and as suitable for breeding as possible. A horse of a beef calf isn't going to help my margin down the line if the cow slips later calving.

An extra €100 and a cow culled V a small calf and a cow ready to go in calf in a month.

Bellview · 31-01-2017 02:58AM

Yes. I used do a lot of showing back in the day that day I won the all Ireland with a heifer and he was reserve to me.
My heifer also was a bang.. bang crossed really well with cattle here as the dam as my lady was out of an Ernie while ybm was a Jumbo dam
Bang was underrated look at bohey jasper

Mooooo · 31-01-2017 08:25AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Dairy farmers have to make up there minds. What is the beef calf worth to them. As a beef farmer I am no longer interested in AA calves. I buy stores and too many light AA are not light for age but have very slow growth rates. If I see a light AA I am no longer interested even the good 450 kg AA store will struggle to kill 340kgs ( about 650 kgs) 10 months later.

A good LM store or a middle of the road FR is a better option. I can only see the price of the AA calf continuing to fall back just no longer interested in them as a store. TBH black cattle send the shivers down my spine, there could be Jex crosses in them sh!tty AA etc in the bunch. I have noticed the dairy farmers slipping away from the LM to the AA. The Hereford breeder's know that the day they follow the AA down the road of the small calf they might as well close up shop.

The whole calf price structure is way out of sync with the beef price, something has to give. I think the Hereford will hold it value but you will have to get up at night and pull a few out. The AA price will have to really correct visavia the Hereford which is overpriced

Tbh the beef calf is worth whatever lads are willing to pay for it, there isn't much for a dairy lad to make there mind up on. The move away from the likes of lim is due to gestation length and a good number of dairy lads aren't keeping bull/beef calves anymore. Also is the Jersey thing overplayed? If you look at the ai figures the number of je straws used is rel small.

Bellview · 31-01-2017 10:23AM

Mooooo wrote:

Tbh the beef calf is worth whatever lads are willing to pay for it, there isn't much for a dairy lad to make there mind up on. The move away from the likes of lim is due to gestation length and a good number of dairy lads aren't keeping bull/beef calves anymore. Also is the Jersey thing overplayed? If you look at the ai figures the number of je straws used is rel small.

The problem for guys on the jex is that bulls are registered as angus. The female percentage of jex is something crazy like 80 percent plus which we all know is crap.
Bigger issue is these jex dams crossed with a beef breed are only breeding rubbish...ironically the bull is always to blame .

Bass Reeves · 31-01-2017 11:37AM

Bellview wrote: »

There are two issues today. One the cow that now makes up the dairy herd is a very different animal to the Bf that was there 20 years ago. The jex being a great example of this. For these cows to calve there are rubbish bulls being used
The other challenge is that meat factories believe a beef can be fulfilled from the dairy herd...which drives the problem you have called out
Speaking to a few guys that buy calves they reckon he best dairy cows are in dovea region as there are more bfr in their country as the late dermot cahill was a great supporter of bfr

The answer is more complex than that. A lot of dairy men consider that they can produce any AA calf and as a heifer it is worth 130-150 and as a bull it is worth 200+. However lots of drystock farmers are copping on to the slow growth rates. It was the same when the jex first came on the s end some dairy farmers were registering them as AA and LM. A few years back there was the Brown Swiss that when crossed with a FR threw a Charley coloured calf. But after a while lads become aware of these types of calves and price them accordingly. Most lads will! Spot a Jersey cross calf at this stage. It is also o my a matter of time before all calves going into the AA and HE scheme are DNA tested.

The issue with sucklers is complex as well. Can suckler cows survive at a beef price of sub 4/kg and a weight limit of sub 400kgs DW.. The UK market which pays a premium above other markets is reluctant to take heavish suckler bred cattle. I am not altogether convinced that it is totally down tongue breed of dairy cow. You see from this thread lads talking about picking cows for you VB bull. A lot of this is that enough of a gap has not opened between poor quality and commercial quality calves

blue5000 · 31-01-2017 12:15PM

satstheway wrote: »

Just when I was changing my mind from BB to HE and then this is posted. Fecking big heads.

If I could get a AA crossed with BB and HE
I would be on to a winner

I could sell you an aubrac x angus bull:D 5 stars too!

Bass Reeves · 31-01-2017 03:23PM

blue5000 wrote: »

I could sell you an aubrac x angus bull:D 5 stars too!

They are big into it in the USA and Canada breeding hybrid bulls for the suckler herd market. A lot of the cows are AA or HE and they want easy calving bulls but not at the expense of a commercial calf. Specialist breeders cross AA and HE cows to Fleckveigh (a simenintal breed) bulls to produce half breed bulls, they are doing it with CH and LM as well some are even breeding 3/4 traditional breed bulls and a quarter Contenital breeding. The idea is not to compromise on calf birth weight but to get that hybrid vigour and a good growth rate that produces a commercial calf with a light birth weight that will get up and suck by himself but will grow faster than traditional breed cattle.

I saw a lad that had a 3/4 bred HE bull that was 1/4 LM. His was a suckler herd with HE cows. He was of the opinion that the calves were easier to calf than pure bred HE and we're better to thrive. I think too many bull breeders and dairy men consider the answer to birthweight as small bul?S with poor LW gain

older by the day · 20-04-2020 02:29PM

I found this old tread. Dovea has a Belgium blue called Norton jaguar. I had only one calf off him last year off a montbeliarde cow. A really great calf. A bit big had to use the Jack. Wondering has others here used him on fresians

davidk1394 · 20-04-2020 03:12PM

What are peoples thoughts on an easy calving LM on heifers ?

cosatron · 20-04-2020 03:25PM

davidk1394 wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on an easy calving LM on heifers ?

the only bulls to use on heifers are Aberdeen angus/Hereford/ or Friesian and its not up for discussion

Buford T. Justice XIX · 20-04-2020 03:36PM

davidk1394 wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on an easy calving LM on heifers ?

For me, no. The Limos tend towards longer gestation and harder calving. In your situation, I'd be going for shorter gestation bulls maybe like KYA and easy calving friesians.

Get them calved and back cycling as easily and quickly as possible with preferrably a friesian heifer to follow on afterwards, especially when starting off?

Bellview · 23-04-2020 11:40PM

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

For me, no. The Limos tend towards longer gestation and harder calving. In your situation, I'd be going for shorter gestation bulls maybe like KYA and easy calving friesians.

Get them calved and back cycling as easily and quickly as possible with preferrably a friesian heifer to follow on afterwards, especially when starting off?

While kya is easy calving and they are really healthy calves.. the temperament of his sons is often poor as they can be head bangers .. generally the sons of a number of Uk bulls rossiter bosullow elmark, Rawburn transformer etc are hard calving and also if the bull has the nt821 gene is also generally harder calved include Goulding man o man, treebridge bulls. In fairness the UK breeders have brought in American Angus genetics to help ease calving where bulls like americano have left a positive in terms of fleshed cattle and easy calving

K.G. · 24-04-2020 12:02AM

davidk1394 wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on an easy calving LM on heifers ?

Potential calving problems
Gambling with you highest value stock
Loss of milk yield due to extra time
Loss of milk due to difficult calving
Potential problems with future breeding calving slippage⁰
Its all about milk in the tank and the potential extra 100 euro in calf value wouldn't be long disappearing if it went wrong

24-04-2020 06:00AM

cosatron wrote: »

the only bulls to use on heifers are Aberdeen angus/Hereford/ or Friesian and its not up for discussion

Dont forget aubrac,!

mahoney_j · 24-04-2020 07:11AM

Kya short gestation but piss poor calves and beef cattle ,rgz easy calving and great cattle .as dairy farmers we need to provide the beef man with decent stock use bb(bb2083 snd dbz)great calves easy calving short gestation ,simental (si 2469)sane and fsz (charolais)on select cows with no issue

Bass Reeves · 24-04-2020 09:35AM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Kya short gestation but piss poor calves and beef cattle ,rgz easy calving and great cattle .as dairy farmers we need to provide the beef man with decent stock use bb(bb2083 snd dbz)great calves easy calving short gestation ,simental (si 2469)sane and fsz (charolais)on select cows with no issue

Dairy farmers will really have to get on top of breeding. If the like of KYA still continues to be used there will be more than JEX cross calves going for slaughter. They seems to only have the ability to put on 5-600 grams/day even if getting ad lib ration or on spring grass

cute geoge · 24-04-2020 12:35PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Dairy farmers will really have to get on top of breeding. If the like of KYA still continues to be used there will be more than JEX cross calves going for slaughter. They seems to only have the ability to put on 5-600 grams/day even if getting ad lib ration or on spring grass

It is all well and good talking about KYA breeding poor cattle but it seems good quality aa/he calves are making very poor money so why should dairy farmers bother their hole with any hard calving bulls and instead put everything in calf to jersey and the likes of KYA

Bass Reeves · 24-04-2020 02:30PM

cute geoge wrote: »

It is all well and good talking about KYA breeding poor cattle but it seems good quality aa/he calves are making very poor money so why should dairy farmers bother their hole with any hard calving bulls and instead put everything in calf to jersey and the likes of KYA

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. HE generally seems to be making 150+.problem with AA is too many lads burned.Turned out the cattle in late March Friesian bombing it the few CH I have are going well the HE are ok. I have seven AA and it like they are on a different farm. Not growing just trundling along.

You go into a mart you see a badly done FR, HE or Contenintal you can chance him. But a.light weighting AA will never catch up

blue5000 · 24-04-2020 02:58PM

Looks like this thread has Irish farming at present summed up neatly; what's best for the dairy farmer isn't any good for the beef farmer and same goes the other way round.

I'd still say angus is the best compromise for the dairy and beef farmer.

carrollsno1 · 24-04-2020 03:29PM

davidk1394 wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on an easy calving LM on heifers ?

Go full nz on it run an old jex weanling with them and bobby all the calves and buy in next years replacements

Bass Reeves · 24-04-2020 03:37PM

blue5000 wrote: »

Looks like this thread has Irish farming at present summed up neatly; what's best for the dairy farmer isn't any good for the beef farmer and same goes the other way round.

I'd still say angus is the best compromise for the dairy and beef farmer.

Not.unkess they can sort the growth rate. O have no issue with light carcass weight if you can get an animal to it quick. But the issue is low daily live weight gains.

Bass Reeves · 24-04-2020 03:38PM

carrollsno1 wrote: »

Go full nz on it run an old jex weanling with them and bobby all the calves and buy in next years replacements

Ya ideal solution we have neither a beef or a dairy industry in 5-7yesrs

mahoney_j · 24-04-2020 04:24PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Not.unkess they can sort the growth rate. O have no issue with light carcass weight if you can get an animal to it quick. But the issue is low daily live weight gains.

Without wanting to start ww3 the arrival of je genetics thru pure je kiwi x snd srm hol bulls has had a deteremintal effect on subsequent beef ainmal .

Best Dairy bull beef breed

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