Time for Dublin Bus to sell Donnybrook Depot?

Bray Head · 27-01-2017 12:39pm #1

The Irish Times is reporting that RTÉ is planning to sell half of its Donnybrook site, potentially yielding €70m for 15 acres. Rounding down a little, this gives €4.5m per acre.

Right across the road is a large site owned by Dublin Bus. I calculate it at seven acres. During the night it stores buses. During the day it is mostly empty.

It is not a very efficient use of land. Private operators do not have depots anywhere nearly as close to the city centre where land is so valuable.

Isn't it time to sell up? Seven acres at €4.5m each is €31.5m. This could easily pay for a bigger and better depot further south along the N11, with plenty left over. Staff would also face much lower housing costs too.

We all know that DB management is not particularly dynamic in this regard (they sat on their city centre property through the last boom too). Does the NTA have any role in forcing sensible asset management by the CIÉ companies?

loyatemu · 27-01-2017 1:47pm

Bray Head wrote: »

This could easily pay for a bigger and better depot further south along the N11, with plenty left over.

Where? Land along the N11 is among the most expensive in the country, any replacement site would also be very expensive to buy and they presumably can't go too far south for operational reasons.

LeinsterDub · 27-01-2017 7:36pm

loyatemu wrote: »

Where? Land along the N11 is among the most expensive in the country, any replacement site would also be very expensive to buy and they presumably can't go too far south for operational reasons.

Cherrywood?

Alun · 27-01-2017 7:39pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Cherrywood?

Already taken ...

http://www.cherrywooddublin.com/masterplan/

LeinsterDub · 27-01-2017 7:41pm

Alun wrote: »

Already taken ...

http://www.cherrywooddublin.com/masterplan/

There is a greenfield site across the road

prunudo · 29-01-2017 9:31am

Does it not make more sense to have buses stored in a central location. Why move it out to the suburbs where the buses will get stuck in traffic getting to their starting location.

ted1 · 29-01-2017 9:35am

jvan wrote: »

Does it not make more sense to have buses stored in a central location. Why move it out to the suburbs where the buses will get stuck in traffic getting to their starting location.

And have additional fuel costs each day aswell.

I'm sure that they could better utilise the site and reduce the size and possible sell the air rights above the land they do need and sell whatever land they free up.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 29-01-2017 9:41am

jvan wrote: »

Does it not make more sense to have buses stored in a central location. Why move it out to the suburbs where the buses will get stuck in traffic getting to their starting location.

Ringsend and Clontarf depots are fairly central as well.

More of a problem imo is that some busses don't use depots near their starting location since network direct came in.

I believe dublin bus should undertake a comprehensive view of the depots they use, determine their operational needs and disinvestment themselves of one or more of their central depots.

Mongfinder General · 29-01-2017 9:46am

I wouldn't put a kennel in Cherrywood.

ted1 · 29-01-2017 9:53am

Mongfinder General wrote: »

I wouldn't put a kennel in Cherrywood.

Strange comment, whys that ?
Especially as they are putting in close to 4000 homes , a new town centre , several schools snd parks etc

RacoonQueen · 29-01-2017 9:58am

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Ringsend and Clontarf depots are fairly central as well.

And Conyngham Road. They were meant to build a terminus up by Liffey Valley ~10 years ago, never happened.

Mongfinder General · 29-01-2017 11:09am

ted1 wrote: »

Strange comment, whys that ?
Especially as they are putting in close to 4000 homes , a new town centre , several schools snd parks etc

In Cherrywood, Clondalkin?

markpb · 29-01-2017 11:26am

Mongfinder General wrote:

In Cherrywood, Clondalkin?

Wrong Cherrywood. The others are referencing a windswept, partially abandoned site in south county Dublin which is between the N11 and Green Luas.

markpb · 29-01-2017 11:28am

+1

The sites are valuable financially and operationally. Rebuilding them elsewhere would be a waste of money. Partnering with a developer to build on top could be a great financial stream for the future.

I'd be less keen on selling any part of the sites though. Once sold, they might never be able to be repurchased which means no expansion in years to come.

Mongfinder General · 29-01-2017 11:52am

markpb wrote: »

Wrong Cherrywood. The others are referencing a windswept, partially abandoned site in south county Dublin which is between the N11 and Green Luas.

Oh. I beg your pardon. Cherrywood in Clondalkin is a serious kipp

ted1 · 29-01-2017 1:59pm

Mongfinder General wrote: »

In Cherrywood, Clondalkin?

No it's in south Dublin

newacc2015 · 29-01-2017 2:06pm

I dont think they should be sold. The NTMA should use the pension reserve fund to build the housing/offices above them and keep the steady revenue stream for the taxpayer. I can't see too many people being happy to live above a bus depot. Is there anywhere in UCD, that the buses could be stored? Pay UCD a rent from the revenue the state will get from the development of the former bus depot.

If there is any depot that should be redeveloped, it is the one off Mountjoy sq. It is only a few kilometers to Harristown and housing is badly needed in the city centre.

IMO there is little point redeveloping these sites to put 4/5 storey apartment blocks. If you are building so close to the city, it should 6-12 storeys minimum. But that it is not possible at the moment.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 29-01-2017 2:09pm

The problem is there a difference between storage functions of the depots and maintenance which I presume also goes on in these depots.

Perhaps you could rent a half dozen mini depots in schools gated car parks as overnight depots and have smaller depots for maintenance.

Bray Head · 29-01-2017 7:44pm

Here are two potential locations for the depot:
Cherrywood: at end of Wyattville Link Road:
Woodbrook: at end of link road to old Bray road:

The Cherrywood location would be no worse for the 46A 145 routes. An added benefit might be getting rid of the Bray depot which has a value too.

The idea of constructing above the depot makes sense. Probably not apartments but I have seen office and retail space above bus terminals in some cities.

ted1 · 29-01-2017 10:04pm

Bray Head wrote: »

Here are two potential locations for the depot:
Cherrywood: at end of Wyattville Link Road:
Woodbrook: at end of link road to old Bray road:

The Cherrywood location would be no worse for the 46A 145 routes. An added benefit might be getting rid of the Bray depot which has a value too.

The idea of constructing above the depot makes sense. Probably not apartments but I have seen office and retail space above bus terminals in some cities.

That cherrywood site is earmarked for development and would be wasted with a depot. It wouldn't solve a problem.

Bray Head · 30-01-2017 10:33am

ted1 wrote: »

That cherrywood site is earmarked for development and would be wasted with a depot. It wouldn't solve a problem.

My point is that Donnybrook (where land values are higher) is also wasted with a depot!

A Cherrywood location could help re-orient the network somewhat and provide better connectivity to the Green Luas.

DB will also have to serve the area too when the high-density development takes place in the next few years.

DB workers would also presumably appreciate the cheaper housing costs the further you get from the city centre.

ted1 · 30-01-2017 11:39am

Bray Head wrote: »

My point is that Donnybrook (where land values are higher) is also wasted with a depot!

A Cherrywood location could help re-orient the network somewhat and provide better connectivity to the Green Luas.

DB will also have to serve the area too when the high-density development takes place in the next few years.

DB workers would also presumably appreciate the cheaper housing costs the further you get from the city centre.

They can link bus routes with the green line, don't see how having a couple of hundred out of service busses would help there.

What has house prices got to do with anything ? Dublin bus are residential property owners

Sam Russell · 30-01-2017 11:54am

Isn't the Donneybrook bus depot a protected structure?

Bray Head · 30-01-2017 1:06pm

ted1 wrote: »

What has house prices got to do with anything ?

Presumably DB staff would appreciate the lower housing costs you find further from the city centre.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Isn't the Donneybrook bus depot a protected structure?

I looked at the list and it only has Broadstone and Clontarf (bizarrely) on it.

ted1 · 30-01-2017 3:01pm

Bray Head wrote: »

Presumably DB staff would appreciate the lower housing costs you find further from the city centre.

I looked at the list and it only has Broadstone and Clontarf (bizarrely) on it.

Do you think houses along the green LUAS line in South Dublin are any cheaper?

Once again how does it affect Dublin Bus, they are under no obligation to house staff.

For what it's worth I commute from south Dublin to the airport by bike daily. I don't think staff would move.

Beer Assistant · 30-01-2017 3:23pm

jvan wrote: »

Does it not make more sense to have buses stored in a central location. Why move it out to the suburbs where the buses will get stuck in traffic getting to their starting location.

Starting location's /terminus are out in the suburbs, buses travel out to these from the city empty every morning so having a bus garage further out would be more efficient. Also DB own a rather large piece of land out at Grangecastle which was/is ment to be used to relocate some inner city bus garage's, no sign of this happening any day soon though.

L1011 · 30-01-2017 5:05pm

Bray Head wrote: »

Presumably DB staff would appreciate the lower housing costs you find further from the city centre.

I looked at the list and it only has Broadstone and Clontarf (bizarrely) on it.

Clontarf is a very old building behind the nasty facade - from the rear here

And they've listed the gates of Ringsend also.

Ringsend is the one I could see going for redevelopment soonest of any; but Donnybrook and Clontarf are on extremely dear land too.

Idbatterim · 30-01-2017 5:09pm

couldnt they have a temporary depo on the rte land? Excavate a massive basement for bus garage and apartment parking, have the entrance to the underground right at the entrance to development or have a seperate entrance for the buses and other traffic?

Bray Head · 30-01-2017 5:10pm

Beer Assistant wrote: »

Also DB own a rather large piece of land out at Grangecastle which was/is ment to be used to relocate some inner city bus garage's, no sign of this happening any day soon though.

I did not know that.

Where is it exactly?

Stephen15 · 30-01-2017 6:22pm

I reckon the old ferry terminal in Dun Laoghaire would make a good enough small bus depot or maybe a bus station for routes out of Dun Laoghaire so people could have a proper place to wait for buses with a coffee shop, real time info, ticket/leap card top machines to save cash transactions and facility for drivers to take breaks etc.this seems like a common arrangement on the continent and in the uk. Or even it have double up as a place for buses to be stabled overnight.

ted1 · 30-01-2017 7:10pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

I reckon the old ferry terminal in Dun Laoghaire would make a good enough small bus depot or maybe a bus station for routes out of Dun Laoghaire so people could have a proper place to wait for buses with a coffee shop, real time info, ticket/leap card top machines to save cash transactions and facility for drivers to take breaks etc.this seems like a common arrangement on the continent and in the uk. Or even it have double up as a place for buses to be stabled overnight.

Rather than a car park I could think of a million better things that they could use the terminal for that would enhance the area.

Time for Dublin Bus to sell Donnybrook Depot?

Time for Dublin Bus to sell Donnybrook Depot? 35 votes

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