Students want freebies

Boaty · 28-01-2017 03:16AM #1

I have a feeling the issue of the student loan scheme will pop up again soon.
Below is an article from the Independent.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/watch-thousands-of-students-march-in-dublin-to-protest-against-student-loans-scheme-35144040.html

It looks as if the proposed scheme is very fair with graduates only paying back the loan if they reach earnings of26000 a year.
Its evident from the quotes in the article that the protestors were students who are in receipt of grants, which can be in excess of 5000 per year. In my opinion the student loan scheme would not hinder performance if anything it would improve performance as the students will have enough money to pay for things due to the loan.

A family on a combined 50,000 euro a year don't get any grants, if they did not have the money for registration AIB are more than happy to provide them with a loan at 8.15% APR, which is astronomical. The proposed student loan scheme would allow this family and many more access to 0% APR students loans.

By giving these people grants we are setting them up for a life of freebies which the taxpayer have to fund. I estimate that the cost of giving out grants to student to be in excess of 250million a year, this could go along way to improve the lives of taxpayers thought better infrastructure etc.

DIT's students Union was complaining about how the new student hub at Grangegorman won't be sufficient due to lack of funds to build it, well if the other 50% of DIT students paid their fees rather than get a grant, the Government would be able to provide them with an extra 40 million a year.

Stravos Murphy · 28-01-2017 03:28AM

Is your estimate accurate?

shane9689 · 28-01-2017 03:49AM

aaaaand this is why im emigrating. No mercy on the youth in this country. Its all "I've made it already , so you'll just have to struggle, sure it will be good for ya...the mounting debt and lack of opportunities... its character building"

Boaty · 28-01-2017 03:55AM

shane9689 wrote: »

aaaaand this is why im emigrating. No mercy on the youth in this country. Its all "I've made it already , so you'll just have to struggle, sure it will be good for ya...the mounting debt and lack of opportunities... its character building"

I'm a student myself, I just don't see why some members of society believe that they are entitled to everything for free, while middle income earners who don't have too much more money are expected to pay for everything.
The student loan scheme would take out any struggle, if you don't earn any more than 26000 you don't have to pay it back.

Grayson · 28-01-2017 04:06AM

Boaty wrote: »

I'm a student myself, I just don't see why some members of society believe that they are entitled to everything for free, while middle income earners who don't have too much more money are expected to pay for everything.
The student loan scheme would take out any struggle, if you don't earn any more than 26000 you don't have to pay it back.

The student grant system in this country has done more to increase the prosperity of this country than anything else. We have an educated population and that's a big part of why we have so much inward investment. Sure the tax rate helps but they wouldn't be here if we were all idiots.

darkpagandeath · 28-01-2017 04:17AM

Grayson wrote: »

The student grant system in this country has done more to increase the prosperity of this country than anything else. We have an educated population and that's a big part of why we have so much inward investment. Sure the tax rate helps but they wouldn't be here if we were all idiots.

India and china would have way higher educated populations. Tax is the only thing. Cant believe people are fooled by the old... were here because of the talent. Lets not forget we had a lot of those talented people on the dole. When companies saw an opportunity to use the crash to shed high paid labour.

Boaty · 28-01-2017 04:21AM

Grayson wrote: »

The student grant system in this country has done more to increase the prosperity of this country than anything else. We have an educated population and that's a big part of why we have so much inward investment. Sure the tax rate helps but they wouldn't be here if we were all idiots.

I don't agree with that at all, if anything the grant system to led to people thinking they are too good to do low skilled jobs meaning that some low paid jobs attract massive salaries such as Luas drivers, bus drivers etc.

darkpagandeath · 28-01-2017 04:24AM

Boaty wrote: »

I don't agree with that at all, if anything the grant system to led to people thinking they are too good to do low skilled jobs meaning that some low paid jobs attract massive salaries such as Luas drivers, bus drivers etc.

Remember when you me took a crap job till we got one we were qualified for after leaving college.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 28-01-2017 04:46AM

We were relatively off. My fees were paid by the State but no grants. My father paid for my accommodation and registration fees and gave me 100 quid a week. I also worked in a petrol station and would make another 130-150 on top of that.

After I finished my stint in college I began working in my Dad's business. I actually made out less per week for the first 3 months, the old dog was trying to test me.

Don't be a gob****e Michael as he would say.

Grayson · 28-01-2017 04:48AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

India and china would have way higher educated populations. Tax is the only thing. Cant believe people are fooled by the old... were here because of the talent. Lets not forget we had a lot of those talented people on the dole. When companies saw an opportunity to use the crash to shed high paid labour.

India do not have as high per capita. Sure they have more but their population is a billion.

And yes, many companies have operations in India but strangely they don't base their European operations there. We're the choice for that. And yes they let people go sometimes. Pretty much every company in every country in the world does that. I've been let go twice so I'm aware of that but I also know that outside of silicon valley you won't find a larger collection of tech companies in the world.

We have one of the most highly educated populations in the world. IF we had the same number attending college in 2000 that we had in 1970 that never would have happened.

There's also the fact that education has been proven time and time again to be the single biggest indicator in social mobility.
The availability of third level education has been proven to benefit both the country economically and the population in pretty much every study ever done. This isn't a leftist idea it's pure fact.Removing or impeding access to it will result in greater social inequality and result in the country suffering economically.

Permabear · 28-01-2017 04:56AM

This post has been deleted.

topmanamillion · 28-01-2017 05:38AM

On a thread about Apple being forced to pay tax in Ireland:

Boaty wrote: »

Even if these companies paid tax it would just go towards the failing state agencies ie HSE

Against multinationals paying tax because you reckon the government will squander it but you fully believe repaid college loans by students will be conscientiously reinvested in education?

On a thread about international vulture funds buying up Irish property:

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Seems quite here. Thought there would be the usual uproar.

Boaty wrote: »

That's because the people that are loud have free houses and this doesn't effect them

You also have a thread entitled "A party for the taxpayer", it`s full of too much vitriol to quote it all but here`s a few excerpts:

Boaty wrote: »

Drug users would be forced into rehabilitation centers which would almost be like prison.

Boaty wrote: »

Food for the long term unemployed would be provided for by a state food distribution company, buying in such bulk would mean massive economies of scale.

Bit of a chip on your shoulder, hey Boaty?;)

andekwarhola · 28-01-2017 10:06AM

shane9689 wrote: »

aaaaand this is why im emigrating. No mercy on the youth in this country. Its all "I've made it already , so you'll just have to struggle, sure it will be good for ya...the mounting debt and lack of opportunities... its character building"

You're being asked to pay for a higher education that will no doubt increase your chances of having a career, not do hard labour in a gulag.

Wanderer78 · 28-01-2017 10:44AM

More 'debt peonage'!

Boaty · 28-01-2017 10:45AM

topmanamillion wrote: »

Bit of a chip on your shoulder, hey Boaty?;)

I can look at your previous posts also, you graduated in 2013 as a Nurse yet two years later you wanted to go to Australia and work as a truck driver on a mine.

And why should the taxpayer pay for people who go to third level for the craic and then not use their degree when they have one?

Wanderer78 · 28-01-2017 10:53AM

Boaty wrote:

And why should the taxpayer pay for people who go to third level for the craic and then not use their degree when they have one?

I don't use my degree for it's intended purposes, I study for the pure joy of learning, self development and I guess for what you call, 'the craic'. Am I wrong to do so?

KERSPLAT! · 28-01-2017 10:56AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I don't use my degree for it's intended purposes, I study for the pure joy of learning, self development and I guess for what you call, 'the craic'. Am I wrong to do so?

I don't agree with the OP but if you're doing something "for the craic", you should pay for it yourself and not expect grants from the government.

Wanderer78 · 28-01-2017 10:59AM

KERSPLAT! wrote:

I don't agree with the OP but if you're doing something "for the craic", you should pay for it yourself and both expect grants from the government.

Maybe we to define 'the Craic'! My previous post is my own definition

Boaty · 28-01-2017 11:06AM

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I don't agree with the OP

So your in favour of some families on 50,000 a year paying fees at 8.15% APR while another on 49,000 get it for free.
A student loan scheme would allow for 0% APR loans for every third level student.

If someone doesn't want to take out a loan for their education they shouldn't be going to third level in the first place. 1/6 first years drop out, it would be interesting to see what percentage of these people are in receipt of the grant.

Wanderer78 · 28-01-2017 11:08AM

Boaty wrote: »

So your in favour of some families on 50,000 a year paying fees at 8.15% APR while another on 49,000 get it for free.
A student loan scheme would allow for 0% APR loans for every third level student.

If someone doesn't want to take out a loan for their education they shouldn't be going to third level in the first place.

maybe education should be free for all, indefinitely

_Kaiser_ · 28-01-2017 11:22AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Maybe we to define 'the Craic'! My previous post is my own definition

I think the point is that if you are studying/getting qualifications for your own sense of fulfillment then that's great, but if there's no tangible return on that qualification to the State, then you shouldn't be getting funded by it through grants.

And let's not forget that the Government/State has no money of it's own. It's all from taxes on citizens, or foreign loans that those same citizens will pay for.

Wanderer78 · 28-01-2017 11:28AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I think the point is that if you are studying/getting qualifications for your own sense of fulfillment then that's great, but if there's no tangible return on that qualification to the State, then you shouldn't be getting funded by it through grants.

And let's not forget that the Government/State has no money of it's own. It's all from taxes on citizens, or foreign loans that those same citizens will pay for.

id argue, most if not all study is beneficial to society as a whole even if it doesnt show 'tangible return'(what the hell do all these terms actually mean???)

oh money creation, now theres an interesting topic;) strangely governments just like banks have the ability to 'print' money. errr umm your last statement is highly debated and controversial.

ancapailldorcha · 28-01-2017 11:46AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

maybe education should be free for all, indefinitely

Who'll pay for teachers, resources, campuses, schools, etc?

Wanderer78 · 28-01-2017 11:47AM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Who'll pay for teachers, resources, campuses, schools, etc?

we will

jamesbere · 28-01-2017 12:17PM

Any grant system or student loan system should be paid by performance levels. If you drop out before first year then it should be paid back.

Wanderer78 · 28-01-2017 12:18PM

jamesbere wrote: »

Any grant system or student loan system should be paid by performance levels. If you drop out before first year then it should be paid back.

another 'production based' system, really??? why do so many students drop out in the first place?

jamesbere · 28-01-2017 12:25PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

another 'production based' system, really??? why do so many students drop out in the first place?

How much money is wasted each year in giving grant money to students who have no interest in been there.

Wanderer78 · 28-01-2017 12:29PM

jamesbere wrote: »

How much money is wasted each year in giving grant money to students who have no interest in been there.

is that the fault of the student or system?

Atoms for Peace · 28-01-2017 12:40PM

State funding is in need of serious reform, it should be looked as an investment. Therefore only courses offering a reward to the states investment should be funded.
Those availing of such funds should be held to specific targets to retain it.

Wanderer78 · 28-01-2017 12:43PM

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

State funding is in need of serious reform, it should be looked as an investment. Therefore only courses offering a reward to the states investment should be funded.
Those availing of such funds should be held to specific targets to retain it.

what if most if not all study leads to 'positive return' for the state? we re still talking about 'target based systems', do these actually work?

steddyeddy · 28-01-2017 12:46PM

Boaty wrote: »

I'm a student myself, I just don't see why some members of society believe that they are entitled to everything for free, while middle income earners who don't have too much more money are expected to pay for everything.
The student loan scheme would take out any struggle, if you don't earn any more than 26000 you don't have to pay it back.

Middle or high earners also get free fees. Would you be happy to pay for the full cost of your education?

Students want freebies

Comments