Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

Villain · 24-01-2017 09:23AM

This is a post on one of the FB groups:

Called into the Hyundai dealer in Naas today to see what kind of PCP deals are available on the Ioniq EV.

"We won't do PCP on the Ioniq electric. It's not a good idea for our customers as it's all very new at the moment". End quote !!!

Anyone else heard that?

Padraig Mor · 24-01-2017 10:44AM

Villain wrote: »

This is a post on one of the FB groups:

Anyone else heard that?

I'd hazard a guess the salesman was talking through his hole. There's PCP figures on the Hyundai website for the Ioniq so presumably they're doing it.

Water John · 24-01-2017 10:51AM

I suspect some one in Naas is getting a bollocking down the phone from Hyundae Ireland HQ this morning.

Not happy with someone being identifiable on social media. It's somone's job may be at risk.

liamog · 24-01-2017 10:55AM

We did PCP on our Ioniq Electric so your man is completely wrong

TBi · 24-01-2017 11:26AM

Water John wrote: »

Not happy with someone being identifiable on social media. It's somone's job may be at risk.

I agree with you somewhat. But this salesman may have cost at least one sale for Hyundai due to not doing his job properly. I wish more people were taking to task for not doing their job properly.

Padraig Mor · 24-01-2017 11:38AM

Water John wrote: »

I suspect some one in Naas is getting a bollocking down the phone from Hyundae Ireland HQ this morning.

Not happy with someone being identifiable on social media. It's somone's job may be at risk.

Maybe he shouldn't talk BS so?

Jakey Rolling · 24-01-2017 06:02PM

On another point - is the "5 years free servicing" offer worth taking for a full EV? The alternative is €4000 scrappage (doesn't apply to me) or max €800 towards insurance costs (my insurance currently €450)

Surely the servicing costs are much less than for an ICE.

Anyone have figures for the servicing schedule and costs for a Leaf to give a rough idea?

oinkely · 24-01-2017 06:23PM

Jakey Rolling wrote: »

On another point - is the "5 years free servicing" offer worth taking for a full EV? The alternative is €4000 scrappage (doesn't apply to me) or max €800 towards insurance costs (my insurance currently €450)

Surely the servicing costs are much less than for an ICE.

Anyone have figures for the servicing schedule and costs for a Leaf to give a rough idea?

Leaf service is €129 with nissan. Battery check, pollen filter replacement and visual inspection. that's once a year.

unkel · 24-01-2017 07:52PM

Jakey Rolling wrote: »

The alternative is €4000 scrappage (doesn't apply to me)

Scrappage does apply to you. You just need to get yourself a banger. Most dealers don't ask questions at all, let alone ask if it is taxed / insured / NCTd...
Try harder man, do you not want to save yourself €4k of your hard earned money???

And the 5 years servicing plan on the Ioniq EV is only £349 in the UK, so that would be a very poor choice

josip · 24-01-2017 08:08PM

unkel wrote: »

Scrappage does apply to you. You just need to get yourself a banger. Most dealers don't ask questions at all, let alone ask if it is taxed / insured / NCTd...
Try harder man, do you not want to save yourself €4k of your hard earned money???

And the 5 years servicing plan on the Ioniq EV is only £349 in the UK, so that would be a very poor choice

It's not €4k.
He said he'll get €1800 off the price without a tradein.
And the banger will cost something to buy even if he can get it past the dealer without the necessary ownership period.
So something less than €2,000 I think.

unkel · 24-01-2017 08:20PM

Sure josip, but you can still get a good bit of money off after you get scrappage (depending on your negotiation skills)

Who doesn't want to keep 2 or 3 grand in their pocket with minimal risk / effort?

KCross · 24-01-2017 10:00PM

On a different note, does the Ioniq have a phone app to allow remote heating?

What else does the app do?

Do Hyundai have an owners website where the cars data gets logged like Nissan Carwings?

Villain · 24-01-2017 10:05PM

oinkely wrote: »

Leaf service is €129 with nissan. Battery check, pollen filter replacement and visual inspection. that's once a year.

Plus Brake fluid for €55 on year two service.

Fiery mutant · 25-01-2017 08:24AM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess the salesman was talking through his hole. There's PCP figures on the Hyundai website for the Ioniq so presumably they're doing it.

When I was initially looking around, I called Naas and the salesperson basically told me that the Ioniq Electric wouldn't be a good idea for me.

So I went somewhere else.

grogi · 25-01-2017 08:49AM

Jakey Rolling wrote: »

Other thing - I sat in the demo car and was checking out some of the data screens.

Of the last 4 test drives, the calculated economy varied from 15 to 23kWh/100km. That's well less than the advertised 11.5kWh - is that typical when it is driven hard, presumably to show off performance? Regeneration was set to level 2.

Theoretically the regeneration level has nothing to do with the achieved efficiency. In real world with real people the effect of it will be opposite to what one would expect...

The higher level of regeneration, the more the car slows down when you lift the foot from the accelerator. As the result, the regeneration/acceleration cycle happens more frequently and it is deeper. Energy conversion is never 100% efficient, so a cycle like that is less efficient than a simply coasting.

So, it is more difficult it is to get higher economy figures with higher regeneration levels, while it is easiest when there would be no energy regeneration on "engine breaking". But a car that automatically coasts feels just ... weird...

grogi · 25-01-2017 08:51AM

josip wrote: »

It's not €4k.
He said he'll get €1800 off the price without a tradein.
And the banger will cost something to buy even if he can get it past the dealer without the necessary ownership period.
So something less than €2,000 I think.

Classic example of "Penny wise, pound foolish"?

Padraig Mor · 25-01-2017 10:14AM

grogi wrote: »

Theoretically the regeneration level has nothing to do with the achieved efficiency. In real world with real people the effect of it will be opposite to what one would expect...

The higher level of regeneration, the more the car slows down when you lift the foot from the accelerator. As the result, the regeneration/acceleration cycle happens more frequently and it is deeper. Energy conversion is never 100% efficient, so a cycle like that is less efficient than a simply coasting.

So, it is more difficult it is to get higher economy figures with higher regeneration levels, while it is easiest when there would be no energy regeneration on "engine breaking". But a car that automatically coasts feels just ... weird...

You forget one thing - braking! I always drive in regen (B) mode in my Leaf. Obviously 'pure' coasting is the most efficient way of driving and I will gently press the accelerator to stop regen and coast when applicable. However, I'd estimate that the vast majority of my regen time is time when I actually want to slow down anyway - i.e. (to a certain extent) instead of using brakes, I use regen to slow the car. So, less use of brakes and more power to my battery - all at a time when I would have been 'wasting' energy by braking anyway. Gains from regen can be significant - it's been ages since I checked, but I've seen up to 30% of my power used coming from regen.

grogi · 25-01-2017 10:59AM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

You forget one thing - braking!

If you depress the break pedal, pads are not used unless absolutely necessary. That would be extremely wasteful.

When you break, even with the pedal, you are regenerating too. It is only with emergency breaking or at very slow speeds that the conventional breaking system is used. It was like that in the Prius and it makes absolutely no sense not to have it like than in any BEV.

unkel · 25-01-2017 11:05AM

grogi wrote: »

If you depress the break pedal, pads are not used unless absolutely necessary. That would be extremely wasteful.

When you break, even with the pedal, you are regenerating too. It is only with emergency breaking or at very slow speeds that the conventional breaking system is used.

That must be the way it works. Recently saw a video of an NCT like test on a 300k km Tesla Model S and the original brake disks were only half worn. And that's a car that's heavier than a full fat Range Rover!

Padraig Mor · 25-01-2017 11:09AM

grogi wrote: »

If you depress the break pedal, pads are not used unless absolutely necessary. That would be extremely wasteful.

When you break, even with the pedal, you are regenerating too. It is only with emergency breaking or at very slow speeds that the conventional breaking system is used. It was like that in the Prius and it makes absolutely no sense not to have it like than in any BEV.

You somewhat miss my point, which is that I use regen to slow the car (and get a little charge) when I would be slowing anyway - i.e. not "the opposite to what one would expect" as you said above.

I know about regen when braking but disagree that the pads are only used in emergencies or at very slow speeds. My subjective experience (Leaf) is that max regen only gives a mild braking effect - very roughly max 25% of braking power - so anything more than mild pressure on the pedal will use the pads.

unkel · 25-01-2017 11:12AM

KCross wrote: »

On a different note, does the Ioniq have a phone app to allow remote heating?

What else does the app do?

Do Hyundai have an owners website where the cars data gets logged like Nissan Carwings?

Very good questions and I'd like to know the answers too. I haven't come across anything about any of this yet (apart from the fact that both Android auto and Apple carplay are supported) but I'm getting the impression the Nissan stuff is far more sophisticated.

And another more pertinent question:

How can you ensure your Ioniq only charges at night rates? App on your phone, something in the car software, something on the charging hardware? I really wouldn't like having to physically plug it in at 11PM or midnight (and to remember having to do that)

unkel · 25-01-2017 11:15AM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

My subjective experience (Leaf) is that max regen only gives a mild braking effect - very roughly max 25% of braking power - so anything more than mild pressure on the pedal will use the pads.

The regen on the Ioniq is far more aggressive, particularly when you set it to level 2 or 3 (see my review for what these levels mean in practice)

In level 3 you can drive the car all day only using the accelerator pedal, unless you have to emergency brake.

liamog · 25-01-2017 11:43AM

unkel wrote: »

Very good questions and I'd like to know the answers too. I haven't come across anything about any of this yet (apart from the fact that both Android auto and Apple carplay are supported) but I'm getting the impression the Nissan stuff is far more sophisticated.

And another more pertinent question:

How can you ensure your Ioniq only charges at night rates? App on your phone, something in the car software, something on the charging hardware? I really wouldn't like having to physically plug it in at 11PM or midnight (and to remember having to do that)

The app is only available in the US, so no luck there.
You can set the charging times and night rate hours using the nav system. So you'll be fine on that.

n97 mini · 25-01-2017 11:58AM

unkel wrote: »

How can you ensure your Ioniq only charges at night rates? App on your phone, something in the car software, something on the charging hardware? I really wouldn't like having to physically plug it in at 11PM or midnight (and to remember having to do that)

Leaf has a charge timer, more than likely the Ioniq has one too.

unkel · 25-01-2017 12:02PM

Cheers Liam, that's a relief.

liamog wrote: »

The app is only available in the US, so no luck there.

I have an old Android phone that I only use for games and apps that are not available for my 950XL. Might change the local settings to US if that lets me install the app

Edit: here it is on the Play Store. The ratings aren't very good

Linky

KCross · 25-01-2017 12:25PM

liamog wrote: »

The app is only available in the US, so no luck there.

Thats a bit of a bummer.

For such a modern car you'd think they would have an app.

Simple things that I use regularly in the Nissan app are to check if the car is plugged in when going to bed.... quick check of the app tells me if its plugged in.

Another one.... when charging (SCP or FCP) to be able to remotely check what % the car is at.

Obviously, being able to turn on the heating 15mins before I leave work.

All very useful features. I'm surprised Hyundai havent done that.

There are more things around trip recording etc that I occasionally use but could live without.

25-01-2017 03:07PM

Leaf regen is 30 Kw max whether you use B or not, B is only really designed for long downhill descents where you can minimise use of the brake pedal a lot. In normal driving it serves little purpose.

When you press the brake , usually there is minimal friction brakes applied, if you need more braking than regen provides then friction brakes will make up the difference.

Anyway after 58,400 odd kms there is no notable wear on my pads or disks. certainly not even a hint of a lip on the disks.

I wonder how many Kw regen creates in the Ioniq ?

unkel · 25-01-2017 03:31PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder how many Kw regen creates in the Ioniq ?

Another good question. I have no idea. I guess it's a similar percentage of max power output? Leaf has 80kW and 30kW max regen, so the Ioniq has 90kW and 33kW regen as a first guess?

25-01-2017 03:52PM

unkel wrote: »

Another good question. I have no idea. I guess it's a similar percentage of max power output? Leaf has 80kW and 30kW max regen, so the Ioniq has 90kW and 33kW regen as a first guess?

Probably more regen in the Ioniq by the sounds of it. Nissan are very conservative with both charging current and regen.

Over 50% battery charge and you will get less and less regen the higher the charge % and use the brakes more and more depending on how aggressively you slow down.

I hope someone creates a Leafspy for the Ioniq.

Have a loot somewhere it might show the power and regen.

isnottheword · 25-01-2017 04:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

B is only really designed for long downhill descents where you can minimise use of the brake pedal a lot. In normal driving it serves little purpose.

By all means - someone come back and correct me. However, I switch to B when I anticipate the traffic or road conditions in front of me demanding that I slow down or stop. It duly slows down albeit that I might have to finish off the procedure with a gently tip on the brakes. The display also shows a level of regen - may not be much but I'm really considering being kind to the brake discs/pads rather than expecting any major upside from regen.

Am I mistaken or is this good practice?

Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

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