Anyone else think minimum wage is a joke?

24-01-2017 09:38PM

Alpha_zero wrote:

Upskilling doesn't guarantee any better pay, plenty of educated people on minimum wage.

The difference is they won't be on minimum wage for life. In the Long term upskilling will bring higher wages

learn_more · 24-01-2017 10:16PM

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Were you never told that life isn't fair.

I hate that answer. In respect of work and pay, it is not in some way inherently unfair, as if 'life' has somehow caused it to be that way, as if it's beyond our control like the weather. It is made to be that way, by us. There is no reason for anyone to just accept or cease to complain about such things by just saying well, that's the way it is, that's life.

jimgoose · 24-01-2017 10:17PM

What is it exactly that you're doing?

blackwhite · 24-01-2017 10:24PM

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Upskilling doesn't guarantee any better pay, plenty of educated people on minimum wage.

Education does not equal marketable skills.

If you go get a degree in something obscure or something overly vague, don't be shocked that there's a very limited number of jobs that the degree is useful for.

Dude89 · 24-01-2017 10:26PM

I know people with degree's being paid a pittance as they are unable to find a job in there chosen field due very high competition

eeguy · 24-01-2017 10:33PM

Dude89 wrote: »

I know people with degree's being paid a pittance as they are unable to find a job in there chosen field due very high competition

That's the problem with the current setup. People are told to do what you love in college, cause there's nothing worse than working a job you hate.
I'd argue that there's nothing worse than no job at all after 4 years in college because and working a crap job you hate with sh*tty pay on top of it.

Personally I think the govt should identify areas of potential and areas of no potential and tweak the grant system, so you'll get more money for going into a field where you're likely to get a good job and less for doing a degree with a limited future.

Arcade_Tryer · 24-01-2017 10:53PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Everyone thinks it should be higher when theyre the one getting it. Im sure you didnt care when you had the good job. And its better than 90% of the worlds minimum wage so maybe we should appreciate that as well

Many economists in Ireland and elsewhere, who are paid more, and know a lot more about the economic effects of the minimum wage than you or I, think the minimum wage should be higher so straight away that argument goes out the window.

Cupatae · 24-01-2017 11:01PM

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Many economists in Ireland and elsewhere, who are paid more, and know a lot more about the economic effects of the minimum wage than you or I, think the minimum wage should be higher so straight away that argument goes out the window.

Im inclined to agree i dont think its balanced fairly at all wage/cost wise i think it puts people into a struggling position, people who at the end of the day regardless of skills or what ever are going out to work and doing there best.

Its easy for alot of people to talk down from a perch when they arent in the position.

Now im not saying go nuts with increases but im sure some sensible adjustments could be made to make things abit more even.

Arcade_Tryer · 24-01-2017 11:13PM

Cupatae wrote: »

Im inclined to agree i dont think its balanced fairly at all wage/cost wise i think it puts people into a struggling position, people who at the end of the day regardless of skills or what ever are going out to work and doing there best.

Its easy for alot of people to talk down from a perch when they arent in the position.

Now im not saying go nuts with increases but im sure some sensible adjustments could be made to make things abit more even.

3 main points when discussing the minimum wage.

1. Immediately disregard anyone who tells you that the minimum wage is all you are "worth". They live in a fantastical free market world which does not exist. And for good reason.

2. The dangers with increasing the minimum wage are inflation and employment effects i.e. increased costs and increased unemployment. Most of the evidence over the last decade has shown these effects to be minimal in the context of small increases in the minimum wage.

3. The minimum wage in Ireland could and should be set at the very least €10 per hour. The reason it's not is because of strong lobbying from the small firms association and IBEC, FG's general economic ideology, and because not enough Unions care about the minimum wage, nor do most people.

suicide_circus · 24-01-2017 11:30PM

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Minimum Wage

Fucķ

Permabear · 24-01-2017 11:42PM

This post has been deleted.

Permabear · 24-01-2017 11:44PM

This post has been deleted.

JRant · 24-01-2017 11:52PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Nazi gold, one could argue.

Cupatae · 24-01-2017 11:55PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Hardly a fair comparison now is it? try keep it some bit realistic u know the point i was trying to make.

eeguy · 24-01-2017 11:58PM

Cupatae wrote: »

I
And of course u need a law to enforce it, sur who d pay anything at all if they didnt have to!

That's the crux of the matter right there. You value your time at more than min wage.
An employer may value it at less and would pay you less if it was legal and he'd still get students and young lads to take the work.

We don't live in a society where everyone gets equal pay for unequal work and that's what gives people an incentive to get out of min wage work ASAP. I'm sorry you've found yourself back there, but it's up to you to pull yourself up to a better paid position.

JRant · 25-01-2017 12:01AM

I was originally dead set against the idea of a universal basic income when I first read up on it. The more I think and read about it, the more I see it's possible long term benefits to society. Especially if we are heading towards mass automation in the workplace.

Even the way it's phrased "minimum wage" to me seems to degrade those people on it. As if this is your sole worth and it's the minimum value placed on you.

For everyone's benefit we would be far better served to stop looking at people as commodities and allowing the market set their worth.

Cupatae · 25-01-2017 12:03AM

eeguy wrote: »

That's the crux of the matter right there. You value your time at more than min wage.
An employer may value it at less and would pay you less if it was legal and he'd still get students and young lads to take the work.

We don't live in a society where everyone gets equal pay for unequal work and that's what gives people an incentive to get out of min wage work ASAP. I'm sorry you've found yourself back there, but it's up to you to pull yourself up to a better paid position.

Oh ive no worries about getting out of it, it just got me thinking about the poor souls that are stuck on it with limited prospects maybe because of circumstances or what ever!

Of course an employer is going to value people s time at less.. alot less because lets face it we all know the kinds of people most employers are..the crux is there time is worth more than what there getting, id wager if they all pulled pin the employer wouldnt be long seeing the value of the common worker.

They pay peanuts because they are allowed to.

with that said what im saying is abit far fetched and likely never to happen, but i think its the truth! everyone should get a fair wage for a fair days work..im not saying they should be able to live the high life but they also shouldnt have to scrape by.

eeguy · 25-01-2017 12:05AM

JRant wrote: »

I was originally dead set against the idea of a universal basic income when I first read up on it. The more I think and read about it, the more I see it's possible long term benefits to society. Especially if we are heading towards mass automation in the workplace.

For everyone's benefit we would be far better served to stop looking at people as commodities and allowing the market set their worth.

A universal income wouldn't amount to more than a lifetime of guaranteed dole. Technology is changing faster than government or society. I'm expecting a world of hurt when autonomous cars put taxi drivers out of a job in the next 5 years.

On a related note, automation will set many people's "market value" to zero.

Cupatae wrote: »

They pay peanuts because they are allowed to.

with that said what im saying is abit far fetched and likely never to happen, but i think its the truth! everyone should get a fair wage for a fair days work..im not saying they should be able to live the high life but they also shouldnt have to scrape by.

Nope, they'd pay peanuts IF they were allowed to, and "fair days work" is a very subjective term. If you're frugal and keep a decent head, you can do live comfortably enough on min wage, but it takes discipline. I've done it for 6 years in the past.

stateofflux · 25-01-2017 12:07AM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Met a barman in an irish pub in Zurich last month (he moved from dublin) who told me he was earning around €35 per hour which he said is standard for the position. Granted i dont know the taxation / living costs he was paying but he said he is far more comfortable than when in dublin.

Cupatae · 25-01-2017 12:07AM

eeguy wrote: »

A universal income wouldn't amount to more than a lifetime of guaranteed dole. Technology is changing faster than government or society. I'm expecting a world of hurt when autonomous cars put taxi drivers out of a job in the next 5 years.

On a related note, automation will set many people's "market value" to zero.

Id say it ll be a lot long than five years before autonomous cars are in action, imagine orderin one of them out into the sticks for a lift

Permabear · 25-01-2017 12:08AM

This post has been deleted.

Cupatae · 25-01-2017 12:09AM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

id say ur belittling there job that d be my view.

The Rape of Lucretia · 25-01-2017 12:11AM

Absolutely. The whole idea of one is. It is outrageous that they are becoming more common in supposedly modern free economies.
Its an insult to those who receive it, its a horrific imposition on those who have to pay it, it is a complete distortion of the economy of work, deprives people of jobs, reduces business activity, economic stability, and an abomination to any rightminded fair thinking person.
I dont know how the madness started, but time for some political leadership, and people to vote with their ballot pencils - ABOLISH THE MINIMUM WAGE !

Permabear · 25-01-2017 12:12AM

This post has been deleted.

eeguy · 25-01-2017 12:12AM

Cupatae wrote: »

Id say it ll be a lot long than five years before autonomous cars are in action, imagine orderin one of them out into the sticks for a lift

Nineteen car companies have 2021 as a deadline for fully autonomous cars, and its predicted they'll get 10 million on the road by then. Tesla has the end of this year actually, though they're always optimistic.
I'd give them 5 years.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/companies-making-driverless-cars-by-2020-2017-1?r=US&IR=T
This is a pretty good article that I'd recommend every professional driver to read. Their jobs are first for the chopping block.

Cupatae · 25-01-2017 12:13AM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

what about the lad sitting at a desk counting numbers? does he deserve the compensation his getting?

Permabear · 25-01-2017 12:14AM

This post has been deleted.

Cupatae · 25-01-2017 12:15AM

eeguy wrote: »

Nineteen car companies have 2021 as a deadline for fully autonomous cars, and its predicted they'll get 10 million on the road by then. Tesla has the end of this year actually, though they're always optimistic.
I'd give them 5 years.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/companies-making-driverless-cars-by-2020-2017-1?r=US&IR=T

ill take my hat off to em if they have auto pilot cars going out around irish backroads anyway!

id say that deadline is fair optimisitic!

Who will people talk drunken nonsense to on the way home from a session tho? serious flaws to be ironed out yet!

:D

Cupatae · 25-01-2017 12:18AM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

U belittled there work because u value it less, i gave u a handier job thats paid vastly more, i know the corner ur trying to paint me into its not gonna work tho because ur just twisting things to suit ur own argument.

I also dont claim to have all the answers im merely giving my opinion im not trying to win some debate.

endacl · 25-01-2017 12:19AM

eeguy wrote: »

Dunno. 1k a week before tax, 700 after give or take.
I spent years on min wage working 20 hours a week when i was in college. I don't want to go back to it.

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Me too

Paupers.

:pac:

Anyone else think minimum wage is a joke?

Comments