Anyone else think minimum wage is a joke?

Cupatae

Ive recently taken on a job paying minimum wage going from a decent paying job (that i was lucky to have!) due to family circumstances...and i honestly cant see how anyone can have any sort of a life on minimum wage! employers are basically exploiting people with minimum wage, they can clearly afford to pay a better wage but chose not to for obvious reasons..

The workloads the same if not worse, but the wages are shocking they really need to up that wage!

Anyone else think the wages should scale to the money being made by the place the person is working for, i mean if they are making top $$ and being stingy paying minimum wage its basically just exploiting.

Alpha_zero

Life is so f ucking depressing

Cupatae

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Life is so f ucking depressing

Only when yeah look at ur pay slip, other than that its great craic! :P:D

wakka12

Everyone thinks it should be higher when theyre the one getting it. Im sure you didnt care when you had the good job. And its better than 90% of the worlds minimum wage so maybe we should appreciate that as well

Cupatae

wakka12 wrote: »

Everyone thinks it should be higher when theyre the one getting it. Im sure you didnt care when you had the good job. And its better than 90% of the worlds minimum wage so maybe we should appreciate that as well

Oh of course, it wouldnt have even entered my mind, but still that doesnt make it right i mean, taking home 360 a week and having nothing but the fluffy in ur pocket at the end of it all when all bills are paid.

It is better than nothing, but it is still fairly bad with the cost of living in Ireland to be fair..

Alpha_zero

wakka12 wrote: »

Everyone thinks it should be higher when theyre the one getting it. Im sure you didnt care when you had the good job. And its better than 90% of the worlds minimum wage so maybe we should appreciate that as well

Poverty is a f ucking disease

eeguy

No one is meant to live on minimum wage. It's a starting point for you to go onto better paid positions.

You're just doing life backwards.

Alpha_zero

Cupatae wrote: »

Only when yeah look at ur pay slip, other than that its great craic! :P:D

This is your first time on minimum wage, you will see

Cupatae

Aussie Semi wrote: »

And you think paying over the odds for labour is going to help the cost of living?

No but do you think the minimum wage/cost of living are balanced correctly as it stands?

onrail

Cupatae wrote: »

Ive recently taken on a job paying minimum wage going from a decent paying job (that i was lucky to have!) due to family circumstances...and i honestly cant see how anyone can have any sort of a life on minimum wage! employers are basically exploiting people with minimum wage, they can clearly afford to pay a better wage but chose not to for obvious reasons..

The workloads the same if not worse, but the wages are shocking they really need to up that wage!

Anyone else think the wages should scale to the money being made by the place the person is working for, i mean if they are making top $$ and being stingy paying minimum wage its basically just exploiting.

Nope. You're paid what you're worth, and in the case of a statutory minimum wage, you're being paid more than what you're worth.

Alpha_zero

eeguy wrote: »

No one is meant to live on minimum wage. It's a starting point for you to go onto better paid positions.

You're just doing life backwards.

Yet plenty do. How much you earn an hour?

eeguy

Cupatae wrote: »

No but do you think the minimum wage/cost of living are balanced correctly as it stands?

Depends how you define cost of living. Minimum wage is minimum. So it should be able nought to keep you above the poverty line.

If you want more money, get qualified and get a better job.

eeguy

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Yet plenty do. How much you earn an hour?

Dunno. 1k a week before tax, 700 after give or take.
I spent years on min wage working 20 hours a week when i was in college. I don't want to go back to it.

Alpha_zero

eeguy wrote: »

Depends how you define cost of living. Minimum wage is minimum. So it should be able nought to keep you above the poverty line.

If you want more money, get qualified and get a better job.

make Ireland great again

Elemonator

It is true that the minimum wage has not increased in comparison with the cost living but I don't think its there to support families. Wages always reflect the skill level, not workload. The minimum wage only really applies to unskilled jobs. Anyone can do the job and there will be always be someone there willing to work for that money.

In my opinion, with the amount of opportunity there is in this country, hardly anyone bar students or part time workers should be working for the minimum wage anyway. Skill acquisition and working hard makes anyone get to the top. I know it seems naive of me, but I have experienced this myself. Of course your situation is different OP, but I'm taking a general view.

As someone put it above, you will always think it should be more when you are getting it. People will always think they are worth more, its the human condition.

Good luck in your future family circumstances OP

Cupatae

eeguy wrote: »

Depends how you define cost of living. Minimum wage is minimum. So it should be able nought to keep you above the poverty line.

If you want more money, get qualified and get a better job.

But like there isnt enough of them jobs going around so the reality of it is, someones gonna have to carry the can and stay in the minimum wage job long term.

I dont think its right for someone to do x2 work of alot of high paid jobs and be paid just enough to stay above the poverty line. im not saying they should be paid top bucks but i think the way it is now is abit low to be fair.

Alpha_zero

eeguy wrote: »

Dunno. 1k a week before tax, 700 after give or take.
I spent years on min wage working 20 hours a week when i was in college. I don't want to go back to it.

Me too

Alpha_zero

Cupatae wrote: »

But like there isnt enough of them jobs going around so the reality of it is, someones gonna have to carry the can and stay in the minimum wage job long term.

I dont think its right for someone to do x2 work of alot of high paid jobs and be paid just enough to stay above the poverty line. im not saying they should be paid top bucks but i think the way it is now is abit low to be fair.

Were you never told that life isn't fair.

eeguy

Cupatae wrote: »

But like there isnt enough of them jobs going around so the reality of it is, someones gonna have to carry the can and stay in the minimum wage job long term.

I dont think its right for someone to do x2 work of alot of high paid jobs and be paid just enough to stay above the poverty line.

Yep, but those people usually choose to do it, either because they're happy in the job, in circumstances where they may have other commitments or they don't want to pursue further training or education.

If you want to move up the ladder you'll find a way to do it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Cupatae wrote: »

No but do you think the minimum wage/cost of living are balanced correctly as it stands?

I saw life pre minimum wage. The minimum wages at least guarantees a level of payment. It is set relatively high in Ireland - even when our cost of living is taken into account. Our taxation system also gives considerable latitude to those on minimum wage, while many countries do not have this.

The problem with increasing minimum wage is that, in fairness, those earning above it will want retrospection. Even when minimum wage came in people doing lesser jobs than others in companies got a rise that brought them up to the wage of others in other roles.

Outlaw Pete

Ah it's only a joke for women tbf

If you're a man all you have to do is send your first payslip to the following address and you will immediately receive 25% more per week.

Patriarchy Headquarters, Male Privilege Dept, Misogyny House, Co. Leitrim.

Permabear

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eeguy

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Because then it's three or four times

scamalert

eeguy wrote: »

No one is meant to live on minimum wage. It's a starting point for you to go onto better paid positions.

You're just doing life backwards.

yeah tell that to the most of the world who live on a few $ per day then.its this perception that one starts at the bottom and only goes up,when in reality if it was the case everyone would be millionaires according to your schedule,but life doesnt work that way,some work all their lives for that minimum wage,other's land in high positions and do f all and make more per day then some in years.

That said minimum wage isnt that bad in Ireland compared to many other countries,but if one wants house,new car then sure enough it wont happen on that wage,thus either up-skill or get used to it,since fair doesn't exist anywhere.

Sleeper12

It's not too far back that there was no minimum wage. It's usually seen as a starting wage. It's up to you to position yourself that you don't stay on minimum wage forever. Night classes etc

eeguy

scamalert wrote: »

yeah tell that to the most of the world who live on a few $ per day then.its this perception that one starts at the bottom and only goes up,when in reality if it was the case everyone would be millionaires according to your schedule,but life doesnt work that way,some work all their lives for that minimum wage,other's land in high positions and do f all and make more per day then some in years.

That said minimum wage isnt that bad in Ireland compared to many other countries,but if one wants house,new car then sure enough it wont happen on that wage,thus either up-skill or get used to it,since fair doesn't exist anywhere.

You're born, you take ****. You get out in the world, you take more ****. You climb a little higher, you take less ****. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what **** even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake son.

Alpha_zero

scamalert wrote: »

yeah tell that to the most of the world who live on a few $ per day then.its this perception that one starts at the bottom and only goes up,when in reality if it was the case everyone would be millionaires according to your schedule,but life doesnt work that way,some work all their lives for that minimum wage,other's land in high positions and do f all and make more per day then some in years.

That said minimum wage isnt that bad in Ireland compared to many other countries,but if one wants house,new car then sure enough it wont happen on that wage,thus either up-skill or get used to it,since fair doesn't exist anywhere.

Upskilling doesn't guarantee any better pay, plenty of educated people on minimum wage.

Cupatae

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Upskilling doesn't guarantee any better pay, plenty of educated people on minimum wage.

To be fair education ie college is almost the norm at this stage, everyone and there grandmother has a degree in something or another its becoming common so ull see more and more educated people on minimum wage, education isnt the filter it once was i think

Mirror game

For too long! the poor have been getting richer and rich have been getting poorer, now's the time for a revolution.
Over the last 150 years the rights of the rich have been completely eroded and their number are becoming fewer and fewer.
It's time for the rich to get out onto the streets march on the dail and stand up for what is right.

eeguy

Cupatae wrote: »

To be fair education ie college is almost the norm at this stage, everyone and there grandmother has a degree in something or another its becoming common so ull see more and more educated people on minimum wage, education isnt the filter it once was i think

Education is still the only filter. Just the min standard has risen. In the 80s you'd be grand with just the leaving. Now you need a masters to distinguish yourself from the rest.

Still, the govt have plenty of free courses for the unemployed. If min wage work gets you down I'd recommend finding a course that'll land you a better job and signing on. You'll be better off in the long run.

minikin

Does your role generate value for the business or is it just a necessary function that's thought of as an overhead? Does it require specialist skills that require a lot of education and experience?

If the answer is no to these questions then you are probably being paid a fair rate.

Sleeper12

Alpha_zero wrote:

Upskilling doesn't guarantee any better pay, plenty of educated people on minimum wage.

The difference is they won't be on minimum wage for life. In the Long term upskilling will bring higher wages

learn_more

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Were you never told that life isn't fair.

I hate that answer. In respect of work and pay, it is not in some way inherently unfair, as if 'life' has somehow caused it to be that way, as if it's beyond our control like the weather. It is made to be that way, by us. There is no reason for anyone to just accept or cease to complain about such things by just saying well, that's the way it is, that's life.

jimgoose

What is it exactly that you're doing?

blackwhite

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Upskilling doesn't guarantee any better pay, plenty of educated people on minimum wage.

Education does not equal marketable skills.

If you go get a degree in something obscure or something overly vague, don't be shocked that there's a very limited number of jobs that the degree is useful for.

Dude89

I know people with degree's being paid a pittance as they are unable to find a job in there chosen field due very high competition

eeguy

Dude89 wrote: »

I know people with degree's being paid a pittance as they are unable to find a job in there chosen field due very high competition

That's the problem with the current setup. People are told to do what you love in college, cause there's nothing worse than working a job you hate.
I'd argue that there's nothing worse than no job at all after 4 years in college because and working a crap job you hate with sh*tty pay on top of it.

Personally I think the govt should identify areas of potential and areas of no potential and tweak the grant system, so you'll get more money for going into a field where you're likely to get a good job and less for doing a degree with a limited future.

Arcade_Tryer

wakka12 wrote: »

Everyone thinks it should be higher when theyre the one getting it. Im sure you didnt care when you had the good job. And its better than 90% of the worlds minimum wage so maybe we should appreciate that as well

Many economists in Ireland and elsewhere, who are paid more, and know a lot more about the economic effects of the minimum wage than you or I, think the minimum wage should be higher so straight away that argument goes out the window.

Cupatae

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Many economists in Ireland and elsewhere, who are paid more, and know a lot more about the economic effects of the minimum wage than you or I, think the minimum wage should be higher so straight away that argument goes out the window.

Im inclined to agree i dont think its balanced fairly at all wage/cost wise i think it puts people into a struggling position, people who at the end of the day regardless of skills or what ever are going out to work and doing there best.

Its easy for alot of people to talk down from a perch when they arent in the position.

Now im not saying go nuts with increases but im sure some sensible adjustments could be made to make things abit more even.

Arcade_Tryer

Cupatae wrote: »

Im inclined to agree i dont think its balanced fairly at all wage/cost wise i think it puts people into a struggling position, people who at the end of the day regardless of skills or what ever are going out to work and doing there best.

Its easy for alot of people to talk down from a perch when they arent in the position.

Now im not saying go nuts with increases but im sure some sensible adjustments could be made to make things abit more even.

3 main points when discussing the minimum wage.

1. Immediately disregard anyone who tells you that the minimum wage is all you are "worth". They live in a fantastical free market world which does not exist. And for good reason.

2. The dangers with increasing the minimum wage are inflation and employment effects i.e. increased costs and increased unemployment. Most of the evidence over the last decade has shown these effects to be minimal in the context of small increases in the minimum wage.

3. The minimum wage in Ireland could and should be set at the very least €10 per hour. The reason it's not is because of strong lobbying from the small firms association and IBEC, FG's general economic ideology, and because not enough Unions care about the minimum wage, nor do most people.

suicide_circus

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Minimum Wage

Fucķ

Permabear

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Permabear

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JRant

Permabear wrote: »

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Nazi gold, one could argue.

Cupatae

Permabear wrote: »

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Hardly a fair comparison now is it? try keep it some bit realistic u know the point i was trying to make.

eeguy

Cupatae wrote: »

I
And of course u need a law to enforce it, sur who d pay anything at all if they didnt have to!

That's the crux of the matter right there. You value your time at more than min wage.
An employer may value it at less and would pay you less if it was legal and he'd still get students and young lads to take the work.

We don't live in a society where everyone gets equal pay for unequal work and that's what gives people an incentive to get out of min wage work ASAP. I'm sorry you've found yourself back there, but it's up to you to pull yourself up to a better paid position.

JRant

I was originally dead set against the idea of a universal basic income when I first read up on it. The more I think and read about it, the more I see it's possible long term benefits to society. Especially if we are heading towards mass automation in the workplace.

Even the way it's phrased "minimum wage" to me seems to degrade those people on it. As if this is your sole worth and it's the minimum value placed on you.

For everyone's benefit we would be far better served to stop looking at people as commodities and allowing the market set their worth.

Cupatae

eeguy wrote: »

That's the crux of the matter right there. You value your time at more than min wage.
An employer may value it at less and would pay you less if it was legal and he'd still get students and young lads to take the work.

We don't live in a society where everyone gets equal pay for unequal work and that's what gives people an incentive to get out of min wage work ASAP. I'm sorry you've found yourself back there, but it's up to you to pull yourself up to a better paid position.

Oh ive no worries about getting out of it, it just got me thinking about the poor souls that are stuck on it with limited prospects maybe because of circumstances or what ever!

Of course an employer is going to value people s time at less.. alot less because lets face it we all know the kinds of people most employers are..the crux is there time is worth more than what there getting, id wager if they all pulled pin the employer wouldnt be long seeing the value of the common worker.

They pay peanuts because they are allowed to.

with that said what im saying is abit far fetched and likely never to happen, but i think its the truth! everyone should get a fair wage for a fair days work..im not saying they should be able to live the high life but they also shouldnt have to scrape by.

eeguy

JRant wrote: »

I was originally dead set against the idea of a universal basic income when I first read up on it. The more I think and read about it, the more I see it's possible long term benefits to society. Especially if we are heading towards mass automation in the workplace.

For everyone's benefit we would be far better served to stop looking at people as commodities and allowing the market set their worth.

A universal income wouldn't amount to more than a lifetime of guaranteed dole. Technology is changing faster than government or society. I'm expecting a world of hurt when autonomous cars put taxi drivers out of a job in the next 5 years.

On a related note, automation will set many people's "market value" to zero.

Cupatae wrote: »

They pay peanuts because they are allowed to.

with that said what im saying is abit far fetched and likely never to happen, but i think its the truth! everyone should get a fair wage for a fair days work..im not saying they should be able to live the high life but they also shouldnt have to scrape by.

Nope, they'd pay peanuts IF they were allowed to, and "fair days work" is a very subjective term. If you're frugal and keep a decent head, you can do live comfortably enough on min wage, but it takes discipline. I've done it for 6 years in the past.

stateofflux

Permabear wrote: »

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Met a barman in an irish pub in Zurich last month (he moved from dublin) who told me he was earning around €35 per hour which he said is standard for the position. Granted i dont know the taxation / living costs he was paying but he said he is far more comfortable than when in dublin.

Cupatae

eeguy wrote: »

A universal income wouldn't amount to more than a lifetime of guaranteed dole. Technology is changing faster than government or society. I'm expecting a world of hurt when autonomous cars put taxi drivers out of a job in the next 5 years.

On a related note, automation will set many people's "market value" to zero.

Id say it ll be a lot long than five years before autonomous cars are in action, imagine orderin one of them out into the sticks for a lift