Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

Walter H Price · 24-01-2017 05:04PM

alastair wrote: »

Once again - apples and oranges. Sweden classifies and logs instances of reported rapes in a completely different fashion to other states. One Irish report could equate to dozens of Swedish ones.

https://debunkingdenialism.com/2015/12/12/how-anti-immigration-activists-misuse-rape-statistics/

Ok it's apples and oranges on the rape stats , but its somewhat universally accepted that the immigration policy pursued by Sweden , particularly Islamic immigration has had a very negative impact on a once very peaceful homogeneous society

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/

Not worked out great in Germany either , crime and unemployment being just about all they have contributed

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/only-one-in-eight-refugees-find-jobs-in-germany-1.2869106

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/644827/refugees-committed-crimes-Germany-migrant-crisis-last-year

How about France , those armed soliders at disneyland and the Eifel tower sure made me feel that cultural enrichment was working well there.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/647381/Calais-migrants-refugees-violence-French-port-town-Jungle-camp-eviction-halted

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-children-being-sexually-exploited-and-forced-into-crime-by-traffickers-in-northern-france-a7079446.html

The UK how are they getting on

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/695066/Police-arrest-900-Syrians-in-England-and-Wales-for-rape-death-threats-and-child-abuse

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637105/Why-did-police-quiet-sex-attack-Syrian-UK-refugees-Girl-14-assaulted-gang-kept-crime-list-covered-BBC-Newsnight-team.html

Bury your head in the sand all you want , call me what ever name you like but i will not accept that bringing in "Refugees" all male and all young unaccompanied adults is a good idea because the evidence is plain to see from the streets of Paris and Berlin to Calais, London etc.. same demographic group, same religion , same pattern. If its all going so swell why are Wilders and Le Penn surging in the Netherlands and France , why is Trump president why did immigrantion play such a huge role in the UK voting for Brexit why is Mama Merkel hanging on by the skin of her teeth ?

alastair · 24-01-2017 05:24PM

Walter H Price wrote: »

Bury your head in the sand all you want , call me what ever name you like but i will not accept that bringing in "Refugees" all male and all young unaccompanied adults is a good idea because the evidence is plain to see from the streets of Paris and Berlin to Calais, London etc.. same demographic group, same religion , same pattern. If its all going so swell why are Wilders and Le Penn surging in the Netherlands and France , why is Trump president why did immigrantion play such a huge role in the UK voting for Brexit why is Mama Merkel hanging on by the skin of her teeth ?

I've no need to bury my head at all. I'm simply pointing out that you're misrepresenting the reality of the situation, either knowingly, or unwittingly. I'm pretty sure we can cope just fine with these 20 lads, or indeed, the 200, if that's the full number of Calais refugees we've committed to take in. I've no doubt that Merkel is assured of another term, she's still remarkably popular - currently a full 20 points ahead of her primary challenger.

As to your Express link:

The Daily Star was wrong to claim hundreds of Syrians had been arrested for sexual offences in the UK but corrected the error itself after a complaint was raised with press regulator IPSO.

An article in the newspaper, published on 31 July, included the headline: “Hundreds of Syrians arrested for rape and child abuse in UK”.

It included police statistics that showed 987 people of Syrian heritage were arrested in England and Wales last year for crimes including rape, death threats and child abuse.

However complainant Elizabeth Hubbard said the headline was not supported by the text, with arrests specifically for sexual offences not numbering in the hundreds.

She told the Independent Press Standards Organisation: “There was no evidence in the article that hundreds of Syrians had been arrested for rape and child abuse in the UK.”

The newspaper said it acknowledged the original headline was “misleading” because it “inaccurately stated that hundreds of Syrians had been arrested for sexual offences”.

The Daily Star amended the headline to “Police arrest 900 Syrians in England and Wales for crimes including rape and child abuse” and added a correction to the foot of the article recording the amendment.

It read: “This article was amended on 10 August 2016. The headlined originally said ‘Hundreds of Syrians arrested for rape and child abuse in the UK.’

“In fact whilst hundreds of Syrians have been arrested for criminal offences in England and Wales the majority of the offences that Syrians were arrested for was immigration violations, but there were other serious crimes.

“For example, in London 238 Syrians were arrested including two for rape and seven for sex offences. The original headline was inaccurate and has been changed.”

As the matter was resolved IPSO did not rule on whether there was a breach of the Editor’s Code of Conduct.

Mary63 · 24-01-2017 05:30PM

The politicians go to dinner parties with the liberal left, they don't go to dinner parties with the disenfranchised living in Fettercairn and Mulhuddart.

If we take in uncontrolled numbers of muslims its to Tallaght and Mulhuddart they will go because that is where the social housing stock is.They will overcrowd the local schools so new schools will have to be built.You will then have the white flight out of the schools the muslims predominately go to so they then become muslims schools and Gods knows what will be taught there, it won't be the principles of Bunreacht na HEireann that is for sure.The picture of the sacred heart, if there are any of those left will be replaced by a picture of the prophet.As I said all very predictable, see the reports of the Inspector of schools in the UK and their grave concerns about what is being taught in schools that have been taken over by the muslims.

The people of France, the Netherlands, Austria and the UK have spoken, some of the liberal left had the nerve to say people who voted for Brexit are so thick they shouldn't be allowed to vote.The liberal left are in la la land and they think their crazy view of the world makes them look educated.They have lofty ideas because they don't have a hand to mouth existence and nor do they have to queue for basic medical procedures, the people waiting on these procedures will now take their place behind all these immigrants Zappone is bringing in, Zappone doesn't live in Mulhuddart either so no fear of these muslims hanging around her area waiting to accost young women going about their business, she probably has health insurance and doesn't have children with special needs who are already in overcrowded classrooms without SNAS and without access to speech therapy etc.They can't get any phyciological support but the "teenage"refugees will have people brought to Roscommon to attend to every need because they are so "traumatised.its infuriating.

ancapailldorcha · 24-01-2017 05:47PM

walshb wrote: »

Assimilation and integration and mixing of cultures sounds brilliant....

If this is all you have to post then please don't. This is a forum for serious discussion, not sarcastic quips.

alastair · 24-01-2017 05:48PM

Mary63 wrote: »

The politicians go to dinner parties with the liberal left, they don't go to dinner parties with the disenfranchised living in Fettercairn and Mulhuddart.

I'm pretty certain that Zappone is more than familiar with Fettercairn, having worked in the community there for thirty odd years.

24-01-2017 05:49PM

alastair wrote: »

Once again - apples and oranges. Sweden classifies and logs instances of reported rapes in a completely different fashion to other states. One Irish report could equate to dozens of Swedish ones.

https://debunkingdenialism.com/2015/12/12/how-anti-immigration-activists-misuse-rape-statistics/

Just, :eek:

Sweden classifies and logs rapes in a completely different fashion to other States?

From your own link:

—> Changing definitions of rape: over the past 20 years, Sweden has broadened the definition of rape several times: actions that are comparable to rape (e. g. forced vaginal fisting) was classified as rape in 1998, sex with someone in a helpless state (e. g. sleeping or passed out due to alcohol or drugs) was classified as rape in 2005 and sex with someone in a particularly vulnerable situation (e. g. victim paralyzed with fear) was classified as rape in 2013. Since a higher proportion of sex crimes is classified as rape, the incidence of rape reports increases over time.

Are you honestly suggesting that surveys are more reliable than police reports? Because it's so much easier to go to the police station, and make yourself available for some pretty invasive tests, than to relive a traumatic experience for the benefit of some random stranger?:rolleyes:

Or is it that "forced vaginal fisting" is acceptable, or not as serious as whatever your definition of rape is?

Because none of the bolded classifications above qualify as consent.

Or maybe because being raped 20 times should count as one rape, in your worldview?

Your link is a rape apologists wet dream, dressed up as a "study", imo.
Disgusting!

What about German women?

https://gatestone.eu/germany-women-safety/

More than half of German women think that Germany has become a less safe place for them: 58 percent say that public places are less safe than they used to be. 31 percent say the situation is unchanged, only ten percent feel safer now.

Or German people?

Last year, a YouGov poll found that 68% of Germans believe that security in the country has deteriorated over the past two or three years. Also, 68% of respondents said they fear for their lives and property in German train stations and subways, while 63% feel unsafe at large public events.

Or maybe the Germans are all just imagining it?

alastair · 24-01-2017 06:00PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Sweden classifies and logs rapes in a completely different fashion to other States?

Yes. It logs claims of multiple rapes as a series of individual rape reports - unlike other states. That obviously is not comparing like with like when it comes to statistics of reported rape.

AnGaelach · 24-01-2017 06:04PM

alastair wrote: »

The Dublin protocols are not applicable to asylum seekers. They're an agreement between states, and don't imply any matter of illegality in aslysum seekers actions. And the 1951 convention is explicit in allowing for irregular entry for the purposes of seeking asylum, irrespective of whether that asylum is subsequently granted, or if the asylum seeker is referred back to a transit state.

I've already cleared this matter for you, I've given you a direct quote from the legislation you are referencing. It refers to the right to travel to States when coming directly from your homeland, it does NOT grant you total immunity from immigration law.

alastair wrote: »

I'd once again point to you the telling fact of the asylum status granted to thousands of people who came to this country via intermediate third countries.

And we're not talking about that, are we? We're not saying whether they have a right to transit a country or not. We are discussing whether they are (as you posit) protected to illegally occupy an area - which they are not.

You can obfuscate as much as you wish, but until you quote a piece of legislation proving your claim, I will continue to call you out on your lie.

You are being deliberately deceptive. The law is not on your side in this argument, no matter how much you say "lalala" and keep your fingers in your ears.

Timberrrrrrrr · 24-01-2017 06:06PM

b_mac2 wrote: »

I don't, but I do know you're not fluent in any of the languages you've claimed to be proficient in.

Sorry for going off topic. I just have quite a fondness for catching out liars.

Cool story bro,

Pity you still know nothing about me and your silly little test proved nothing.;)

alastair · 24-01-2017 06:08PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Or maybe the Germans are all just imagining it?

Well, from your own link, yes. They're imagining it.

24-01-2017 06:08PM

alastair wrote: »

Yes. It logs claims of multiple rapes as a series of individual rape reports - unlike other states. That obviously is not comparing like with like when it comes to statistics of reported rape.

Yes. Because multiple rapes are ... multiple rapes.

Are you suggesting that a woman who has been raped 3, 4, or 5 times has only been raped once?

Timberrrrrrrr · 24-01-2017 06:09PM

Mary63 wrote: »

I didn't work with them I am glad to say, it was a young relative who did.If you were surrounded in college by Irish speakers you had the choice to find someone you could communicate with.You also choose to travel and again if someone you met on your travels could communicate with you in your language most people have enough civility to make the effort.
You have no choice in a workplace except to ask management on your behalf to request that the colleagues converse in a common language,you are obviously a very rude self centred person so you don't get how a sensitive working person would find this working environment intolerable so no point in debating this any further with you.
I wish you had as much consideration for Irish people as you have for immigrants.

The muslim women do breed non stop, what is the issue with that, we breed just as every other animal species does.The German and the italian native population and the French too have stopped breeding in sufficient numbers, this is a huge problem in France now as the Muslims are now twenty per cent of the population.If this keeps up and we continue to allow uncontrolled immigration white europeans are going to become a minority in Europe and with that goes our way of life and in comes the muslim way of life, thats not a very comforting thought.

If your "relative" was working in a large company then surely (as you state) she could have found someone to converse with in English, If on the other hand she was the only Irish person there and the majority of people were Polish then surely they were speaking in the most common language in the company.

alastair · 24-01-2017 06:13PM

AnGaelach wrote: »

I've already cleared this matter for you,

I was clear already, cheers.

AnGaelach wrote: »

I've given you a direct quote from the legislation you are referencing. It refers to the right to travel to States when coming directly from your homeland,

No it doesn't.

AnGaelach wrote: »

it does NOT grant you total immunity from immigration law.

Of course not - it simply enforces no penalties for those entering irregularly for the purpose of seeking asylum.

AnGaelach wrote: »

And we're not talking about that, are we? We're not saying whether they have a right to transit a country or not. We are discussing whether they are (as you posit) protected to illegally occupy an area - which they are not.

We are? Not until now, we haven't.

AnGaelach wrote: »

You can obfuscate as much as you wish, but until you quote a piece of legislation proving your claim, I will continue to call you out on your lie.

You are being deliberately deceptive. The law is not on your side in this argument, no matter how much you say "lalala" and keep your fingers in your ears.

I'd rather direct you to the law of the land, which supports what I've tried to explain to you.

4. The expression “coming directly” in Article 31(1), covers the situation of a person who enters the country in which asylum is sought directly from the country of origin, or from another country where his protection, safety and security could not be assured. It is understood that this term also covers a person who transits an intermediate country for a short period of time without having applied for, or received, asylum there. No strict time limit can be applied to the concept “coming directly” and each case must be judged on its merits.

http://www.refworld.org/docid/3c2b3f844.html

What should prosecutors consider?
• This provision is intended to exclude only those who had been recognised as refugees in other countries or who have been granted some other form of protection. Prosecutors should have regard here to the judgment in R v Asfaw [2008] UKHL 31 in which the majority of the court indicated that 'coming directly' should be interpreted in such a way that the provision is given a liberal interpretation so that a person may travel through several countries whilst they are still in flight until they eventually apply for asylum.
• It is not important if the person came via a country or the number of countries the person has transited through. What is important is whether the person was able to obtain protection from persecution in the country in question. This includes those who are transiting through the UK to reach another country in which they intend to claim asylum.
• No strict time limit for the passage through or the stop in another country can be applied to the concept of “coming directly” and each case must be judged on its own merits. The defence also applies to transit cases, where refugees are committing the offences to leave the UK – see Adimi and R v Asfaw [2008] UK HL 31.

http://www.crownoffice.gov.uk/images/Documents/Prosecution_Policy_Guidance/Guidelines_and_Policy/COPFS%20Refugees%20Policy.pdf

Now how do you imagine all those successful asylum seekers who transited third states before making their application managed, if, as you suggest, they were not entitled to seek asylum? It's quite the riddle, isn't it?

AnGaelach · 24-01-2017 06:17PM

alastair wrote: »

No it doesn't.

I'm not going to reply to the rest of your post, because you are either stupid or a being deliberately deceptive. I've already quoted the legislation you sourced and highlighted it for you.

1. The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of Article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.

You've provided no evidence to support your claims, you've merely said "nuh uh" and peddle a lie again and again.

24-01-2017 06:27PM

alastair wrote: »

Well, from your own link, yes. They're imagining it.

Of course. They went from being welcoming to feeling unsafe because... they're imagining it?

Nothing to do with mass sexual assault, people being murdered by a piece of filth - (who, incidentally, entered Europe by pretending to be a minor), nothing to do with assaults of minors in swimming pools.

Nope. They're all just imagining it - because Alastair provided a link to a rape apologists wet dream, and had the singularly poor taste to try to defend that link, not one, but twice.

You do realise that makes you lose all credibility?

alastair · 24-01-2017 06:31PM

AnGaelach wrote: »

I'm not going to reply to the rest of your post, because you are either stupid or a being deliberately deceptive. I've already quoted the legislation you sourced and highlighted it for you.

You've provided no evidence to support your claims, you've merely said "nuh uh" and peddle a lie again and again.

I've provided ample evidence. Whether you choose to ignore it, is entirely up to you. It's worth pointing out that while you were emboldening text, you failed to notice it didn't actually correspond with your claim. Strange that.

alastair · 24-01-2017 06:33PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course. They went from being welcoming to feeling unsafe because... they're imagining it?

Nothing to do with mass sexual assault, people being murdered by a piece of filth - (who, incidentally, entered Europe by pretending to be a minor), nothing to do with assaults of minors in swimming pools.

Nope. They're all just imagining it - because Alastair provided a link to a rape apologists wet dream, and had the singularly poor taste to try to defend that link, not one, but twice.

You do realise that makes you lose all credibility?

I'd try a little test of comprehension, if I were you. Did you actually read the article you linked to? I'm guessing not.

jmayo · 24-01-2017 06:33PM

I just find it very sad, also infuriating, when people are now going to the level of downplaying rape and sexual assaults to help their argument.
Yes Sweden may count rapes differently but it sill sits way out there and we do know sexual assaults have increased.
Hell we know sexual assaults have increased both in number and sheer depravity in any country we have had arrivals of a certain belief system and from certain very backward areas of the world.

Yes we always had rape, hell we had institutionalised rape in this state and others, but FFS does that make it ok to now to go backwards and introduce a new strand of rapists.

How anyone can say it is a good idea to let in hordes of young males without absolutely no idea of their backgrounds, bar the fact they predominantly come from some very non secular discriminatory countries and they have been brought up in probably the most discriminatory misogynistic belief system on the planet, is lunacy and downright dangerous.

I am sick to the back teeth of continuously regurgitating lists of murderers, would be murderers, rapists, paedophiles that should not have ended up in Europe but for the lunacy.
And that list is growing day by day.
Of course you wont find the information on RTE, BBC, Irish Times, Independent or the Guardian.
How many people complained post property bubble that the media were property pimps that led them astray, yet when the media is highlighted now for even more serious omissions and untruths the messengers are slaughtered.

How many dead bodies, how many rape victims, how many traumatised children will it take before these people say no more and figure out there is more than just their feelings of superiority to consider here.

alastair · 24-01-2017 06:36PM

jmayo wrote: »

I just find it very sad, also infuriating, when people are now going to the level of downplaying rape and sexual assaults to help their argument.
Yes Sweden may count rapes differently but it sill sits way out there and we do know sexual assaults have increased.

Nope. We know the reporting of sexual assaults have increased - as they have here, and elsewhere.

jmayo · 24-01-2017 06:38PM

alastair wrote: »

Nope. We know the reporting of sexual assaults have increased - as they have here, and elsewhere.

Funny how you mention reporting.
Would you consider that before or after the police have ignored them, refused to acknowledge them and then downplayed them ?

alastair · 24-01-2017 06:39PM

jmayo wrote: »

How many dead bodies, how many rape victims, how many traumatised children will it take before these people say no more and figure out there is more than just their feelings of superiority to consider here.

"Think of the children!"?

That's the mantra in a thread venting spleen over the provision of sanctuary for 20 minors?

Hmm.

Mary63 · 24-01-2017 06:41PM

It isn't twenty minors, thats only the first tranche, we have to take at least two hundred.

alastair · 24-01-2017 06:43PM

Mary63 wrote: »

It isn't twenty minors, thats only the first tranche, we have to take at least two hundred.

Two hundred minors then. All the better. Looks an awful like thinking of the children.

Mary63 · 24-01-2017 06:48PM

They are also going to be attending secondary school if they are claiming to be seventeen, I can't see the townspeople of whoever they end pup being happy about this if the only schools available are mixed.

You could have adult males of up to thirty years of age sitting in class alongside sixteen year old girls.

This is not going to end well.

alastair · 24-01-2017 06:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes. Because multiple rapes are ... multiple rapes.

Are you suggesting that a woman who has been raped 3, 4, or 5 times has only been raped once?

That's how it would be recorded in most states.

enricoh · 24-01-2017 06:56PM

I see over in Sweden it's working out great for the locals. A young local lad of 15 was raped by 5 afghani 'minors'.
The local agency confirmed that the perpetrator was lying about being 17 and was older. The judge rejected this and took the rapists word that he was 17 n so tried as a child ! Jesus wept!
3 of middle eastern appearance even posted a live video on Facebook them raping a young one !
Maybe the swedish locals should try venting a bit of spleen eh Alistair

alastair · 24-01-2017 07:07PM

enricoh wrote: »

I see over in Sweden it's working out great for the locals. A young local lad of 15 was raped by 5 afghani 'minors'.
The local agency confirmed that the perpetrator was lying about being 17 and was older. The judge rejected this and took the rapists word that he was 17 n so tried as a child ! Jesus wept!
3 of middle eastern appearance even posted a live video on Facebook them raping a young one !
Maybe the swedish locals should try venting a bit of spleen eh Alistair

You do get that those are different people, yes? Where does this bizarre need to ascribe ill intent to people completely uninvolved with other's crimes start and finish with you? You realise that there are Irish people committing all sorts of crimes and it doesn't imply anything with regard to other Irish people? Same story with these 20 lads.

24-01-2017 07:58PM

alastair wrote: »

I'd try a little test of comprehension, if I were you. Did you actually read the article you linked to? I'm guessing not.

alastair wrote: »

That's how it would be recorded in most states.

I read it. I even posted relevant - very disturbing - issues, which the rape apologist "authors" chose to discount as rape, choosing instead to suggest that surveys were a more reliable measure for rape crimes.

We all know how reliable surveys proved in recent elections, do we not?

Meanwhile, you choose to ignore facts, ignore whatever you feel may make your posts even more appalling than they already are - and defend the fact that multiple rapes = more than one rape, by posting vile, disgusting,tripe about that's how it would be recorded in most states. Care to prove that, by the way?

Would you also care to answer these questions:

Do you consider "forced vaginal fisting" to be rape?

Do you consider sexual intercourse when the victim is incapacitated to be rape?

Do you consider sexual intercourse with someone who is mentally incapacitated to be rape?

Do you consider it acceptable that half of German women feel unsafe?

enricoh · 24-01-2017 08:50PM

alastair wrote: »

You do get that those are different people, yes? Where does this bizarre need to ascribe ill intent to people completely uninvolved with other's crimes start and finish with you? You realise that there are Irish people committing all sorts of crimes and it doesn't imply anything with regard to other Irish people? Same story with these 20 lads.

Yeah, the problem is that its beginning to turn into the theme story of migrants in germany ,sweden etc
Yeah, I'm sure we'll get a better crowd in than Sweden did. We're getting this lot from the lawless jungle in Calais. I'm equally sure none of them were causing roadblocks, threatening truckers and damaging the truckers property on a nightly basis. If they say they weren't at it its good enough for me!

AnGaelach · 24-01-2017 09:18PM

alastair wrote: »

You do get that those are different people, yes? Where does this bizarre need to ascribe ill intent to people completely uninvolved with other's crimes start and finish with you? You realise that there are Irish people committing all sorts of crimes and it doesn't imply anything with regard to other Irish people? Same story with these 20 lads.

Yeah, because the Irish totally weren't infinitely more likely to carry out an IRA bombing than a Pole or German :rolleyes:

There's a reason we judge people by the groups, and it's not because of racism. :rolleyes:

Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

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